HDHomeRun DVR software Kickstarter campaign - Page 9 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #241 of 1695 Old 04-30-2015, 04:39 PM
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I'm curious, where in the EULA does it actually say that Microsoft has to keep providing guide data? Most of the EULAs and TOS I've read are there for protection of the developer rather than the user.
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post #242 of 1695 Old 04-30-2015, 04:43 PM
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It says that MS can discontinue providing it at any time.

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post #243 of 1695 Old 04-30-2015, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
It says that MS can discontinue providing it at any time.
Thanks. Reading back, it looks likes like I missed a whole page of posts.

Like others in the thread, I'm all for a reasonably priced annual subscription service like the one SiliconDust is developing for their HDHomeRun tuners. To be honest, WMC's DVR functionality isn't the best but it is really easy to set up owing to free built-in guide data. I'm glad SiliconDust is doing something now creating a multi-platform alternative rather than having to scramble three or more years down the line if/when Microsoft pulls the plug on guide data.
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post #244 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
Big Screen EPG is what I was looking for earlier, thanks!

But doesn't Schedules Direct prohibit their data from being used in WMC? Seems like Big Screen will import it anyway
I haven't seen anything to this effect on the Schedules Direct website that prohibits it, but it could be buried in the fine print somewhere. I don't see any reason why Schedules Direct would have to know how you're using the guide data if you're paying for it.

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Originally Posted by staknhalo View Post
Yes, and I recall people saying they've cut people off for mentioning they were using the data with WMC before.

Also, I might be wrong (I remember looking into it briefly a while back, don't care enough to go read it all again ATM), but doing it this way means (before) every 2 weeks, you have to remember to go and update/import guide data IIRC. No thanks. Gone are the days of me hunched over a computer fiddling with the HTPC. Or, being completely busy/swamped (or going away/out of town!) for 2 weeks and suddenly finding out 'Oh, I forgot to update/import guide data, now I have none; awesome!'. It's 'set it and forget it' now or bust.

The only time I have to log into my HTPC (over RDP) nowadays is to add a new movie/TV show rip and update/change metadata in Plex as they get added. The last time I had to do that was GOT S4/Interstellar. The next time I'll have to do that isn't until GOT S5/Summer 2015 movies are out at the end of this year/next year. It's very nice this way. I'm not going backwards in that regard
I'll have to go back and read the info on the Big Screen EPG website again. I was under the impression that the data is imported automatically.

Just checked and saw this:

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Runs when you're not around using the Inbuilt Scheduled Task Management Helper
Looks to me like it can be configured to run automatically.

In any case, the discussion above regarding the possibility that Microsoft could cut us off at a moment's notice is what got me started on looking for alternatives to WMC. The HDHR DVR software running in Kodi would be a perfect fit for my needs, but only if they can provide the features that I need. Commercial skipping in some form is a must have for me, but not an absolute necessity if the 30-second skip on a compatible WMC remote works with it.

Last edited by captain_video; 05-01-2015 at 04:45 AM.
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post #245 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 08:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
In any case, the discussion above regarding the possibility that Microsoft could cut us off at a moment's notice is what got me started on looking for alternatives to WMC. The HDHR DVR software running in Kodi would be a perfect fit for my needs, but only if they can provide the features that I need. Commercial skipping in some form is a must have for me, but not an absolute necessity if the 30-second skip on a compatible WMC remote works with it.
I've given up on trying to keep track of who here is on which provider, but I'm assuming since you've been looking for WMC alternatives, but have stuck with WMC thus far that you probably have "copy once" content, and if that's the case it's doubtful you'll find a solution that does commercial skipping for flagged content.
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post #246 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 09:35 AM
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It would be great if you could just turn on your current Smart TV and have an app for live tv and DVR using the HD Homerun Prime. Maybe someday.
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post #247 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
I've given up on trying to keep track of who here is on which provider, but I'm assuming since you've been looking for WMC alternatives, but have stuck with WMC thus far that you probably have "copy once" content, and if that's the case it's doubtful you'll find a solution that does commercial skipping for flagged content.
Actually, I'm on FIOS and none of my subscribed channels are flagged. While I would like a commercial skipping app like Comskip or Showanalyzer, I've found that they aren't always 100% accurate so I end up using the 30-second skip feature a lot. I always record live sporting events and start watching while the game is in progress. The commercials haven't been mapped by the time I get to them so I just use the 30-second skip to bypass them and it works much better than fast forward for this purpose.

I started looking into DVR alternatives mostly because I was curious. Unfortunately, none of them were as easy to set up as WMC so I always ended up going back to it. I saw a lot of features in MythTV that I liked, but I could never find the time to get it working the way I wanted. The simplicity of the HDHR DVR app would probably make the wife happy so I'd like to give it a shot when it becomes available.
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post #248 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by paulsaz View Post
It would be great if you could just turn on your current Smart TV and have an app for live tv and DVR using the HD Homerun Prime. Maybe someday.
The second stretch goal contains Samsung Smart TVs.

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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Looks to me like it can be configured to run automatically..
OK, so there's that then.
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post #249 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 12:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Actually, I'm on FIOS and none of my subscribed channels are flagged. While I would like a commercial skipping app like Comskip or Showanalyzer, I've found that they aren't always 100% accurate so I end up using the 30-second skip feature a lot. I always record live sporting events and start watching while the game is in progress. The commercials haven't been mapped by the time I get to them so I just use the 30-second skip to bypass them and it works much better than fast forward for this purpose.

I started looking into DVR alternatives mostly because I was curious. Unfortunately, none of them were as easy to set up as WMC so I always ended up going back to it. I saw a lot of features in MythTV that I liked, but I could never find the time to get it working the way I wanted. The simplicity of the HDHR DVR app would probably make the wife happy so I'd like to give it a shot when it becomes available.
Okay, that makes sense.

If that's the case, I would think that the shows should be stored on the HDHR NAS as transport streams, likely in some well used container, so I would think most com-skip software should work with it, or at least be easily modified to do so. That's assuming the HDHR software doesn't do something odd with unflagged content, like encrypt it anyway (seems very unlikely) or store the files on the NAS in a manner where they can't be directly accessed (almost as unlikely)

I suppose the only other hurdle outside of access and encryption, would be properly identifying the shows. I'm assuming that metadata will be accessible in some fashion but if not I suppose that could be a show stopper too.
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post #250 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 12:45 PM
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As long as Comskip can read the file (likely), all SD (or someone else) needs to do is create a plugin similar to DTBAddin for WMC that reads the XML files and automatically skips according to the positions in the XML file. DTBAddin/comskip just looks for/creates an XML file in the same directory with the same name as the recorded TV file, so no need to identify the show if they're going to keep it the same way as WMC.

I have Comskip tuned so it's pretty much 100% accurate on all the channels I watch, it's a total time saver!
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post #251 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 12:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rc05 View Post
As long as Comskip can read the file (likely), all SD (or someone else) needs to do is create a plugin similar to DTBAddin for WMC that reads the XML files and automatically skips according to the positions in the XML file. DTBAddin/comskip just looks for/creates an XML file in the same directory with the same name as the recorded TV file, so no need to identify the show if they're going to keep it the same way as WMC.

I have Comskip tuned so it's pretty much 100% accurate on all the channels I watch, it's a total time saver!
Oh okay. That's cool. Last time I had even looked into commercial skipping software was years ago, and they were actually cutting the commercials from the video stream and then remuxing the results (at least that was my understanding)

Thanks for the info.
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post #252 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by paulsaz View Post
It would be great if you could just turn on your current Smart TV and have an app for live tv and DVR using the HD Homerun Prime. Maybe someday.
When smart tvs first came out my thought was that the manufacturers and content providers would use the providers IPTV delivery method to simply add DVR capability to the TV. It hasn't happened yet.

I have TWC (and I know for sure Comcast and Fios also) and have their IPTV app loaded to my android devices. I get my subbed channels from the provider either through web interface on the PC or this Android app. Really all that needs to happen is the smart tv, BlueRay and Roku/Chromecast/Stick manufacturers just put this type of IPTV app in their appliance with the ability to DVR and you don't even need Ceton, SiliconDust, Motorola, Scientific Atlantic/Cisco and anyone to build boxes any more. The TV signal would come over IP and would not need to be a separate RF signal coming to your house. Add DVR app and the ability to add an external hard drive to these smart devices and its done. Don't see what's do hard about that. Other than they can't think of how they'll get their money from it. Oh if only to be in the content delivery business for a day

EZed
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post #253 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 04:05 PM
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I have TWC (and I know for sure Comcast and Fios also) and have their IPTV app loaded to my android devices. I get my subbed channels from the provider either through web interface on the PC or this Android app
This is only on demand though correct? Nothing live?
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post #254 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 04:39 PM
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This is only on demand though correct? Nothing live?
No they have live viewing for a bunch of channels as well, with more added as they secure the contracts to do so. I have both the xfinity and twc apps with log in info from family/friends.
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post #255 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 04:40 PM
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Cool, xfinity used to only work on their own internet service, so they must have lifted that nonsense as well for it to work away from home
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post #256 of 1695 Old 05-01-2015, 04:42 PM
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Cool, xfinity used to only work on their own internet service, so they must have lifted that nonsense as well for it to work away from home
The 360 apps still only work from your home (i.e. original subscriber's) network (bummer); but the Android apps specifically, work fine outside of it.

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post #257 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 03:13 PM
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To be honest, WMC's DVR functionality isn't the best but it is really easy to set up owing to free built-in guide data.
Funny, but I think WMC's DVR functionality is it's best attribute. What DVR product does it better?
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post #258 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
The HDHR DVR software running in Kodi would be a perfect fit for my needs, but only if they can provide the features that I need. Commercial skipping in some form is a must have for me, but not an absolute necessity if the 30-second skip on a compatible WMC remote works with it.
I looked at Kodi, and I think the new HDHR software doesn't allow recording. Fine if you like watching the ads.
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post #259 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 03:26 PM
 
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Funny, but I think WMC's DVR functionality is it's best attribute. What DVR product does it better?
They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Individual preferences will vary depending on what points are most important to you.

WMC is generally easy to setup and intuitive to use, with a high WAF. (plus the whole protected content thing)

It does have a few drawbacks though, that may or may not be important to you. Among other things I seem to recall a "bug" that crops a single column of pixels during playback, many don't like the way it handles incorrectly flagged (as in interlacing) content (aka the 29/59 bug) It also ties up 2 tuner to record one channel in some situations where the stars align, padding is enabled, and back to back recordings are happening, and I'm not particularly fond of the way it handles recording a show after it has already started.

On my old Moto cable box, if I start watching a show, decide I like it and want to record the whole thing, it would get all of the show (as much as was in the recording buffer) when I hit the record button. So if I hadn't changed channels since I started watching, I would actually get the entire show. (at least all of it since the last time I changed channels) whereas WMC will just start recording from whatever point you hit the record button. (It doesn't go back to get the entire show)

None of those things are deal breakers for me, but they can be big strikes for other people.
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post #260 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 03:42 PM
 
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I looked at Kodi, and I think the new HDHR software doesn't allow recording. Fine if you like watching the ads.
Huh... This direct from the Kickstarter page.
"HDHomeRun DVR

Watch and record live TV. Your way.

It’s our mission to simplify and change the way we watch and record live television. SiliconDust is readying the ultimate live television viewing and recording software tool called HDHomeRun DVR. It enables the viewing and recording of your full over-the-air and cable TV lineup using your home network.

Our concept is that Live and recorded content can be watched from media devices with our brand new and innovative interface. And yes, it even works with protected content. HDHomeRun DVR doesn’t require an always-on PC (or media center software) - it works with network attached storage devices."

What HDHR currently has will not record, but you can record in Kodi with other addons and the HDHR tuners.

I would assume commercial skipping would be the same as it is today... You hit the button, and it skips 30 seconds at a time.
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post #261 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 03:52 PM
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Huh... This direct from the Kickstarter page.
"HDHomeRun DVR
Sorry, I thought you were talking about the new HDHR app for Kodi.
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post #262 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 04:01 PM
 
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Sorry, I thought you were talking about the new HDHR app for Kodi.
Oh, now i know what you are referring to... If you want to record you need to use one of the DVR apps (which i have not set up). I am hoping the new Kodi app from the Kickstarter will make it as easy to setup as the new HDHR app is now. Until I got a new pair of HDHR tuners i was not successful at getting them to work in Kodi, and had to watch , and record from WMC (which I do not like to use).
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post #263 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 04:05 PM
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They all have their own strengths and weaknesses. Individual preferences will vary depending on what points are most important to you.

WMC is generally easy to setup and intuitive to use, with a high WAF. (plus the whole protected content thing)
OK. I questioned your saying "WMC DVR functionality". Your response just mentioned other issues, none of which I consider "functionality".

No problem. I thought you might know of something better.

Regards
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post #264 of 1695 Old 05-02-2015, 04:18 PM
 
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OK. I questioned your saying "WMC DVR functionality". Your response just mentioned other issues, none of which I consider "functionality".

No problem. I thought you might know of something better.

Regards
Call it what you will but the latter two things I mentioned are directly tied to recording/DVR functionality, and the first two things I mentioned are tied to playback in general, or playback of live/recorded content. Maybe you don't consider playback part of DVR functionality, but I would assert that playback is a very, very important aspect of DVR functionality.

And while some DVR apps allow for different front ends for playback, WMC (with regards to protected content) is inseparable as a front end/DVR. They are one in the same.

As far as knowing of something better, like I said it's going to depend on what your priorities are. There are other DVR apps that don't suffer from the problems I mentioned above. If those things are important to you, then one of those apps is likely going to be better for you. If you don't care about those things, then I doubt you'd want to switch from WMC. But you can ask "what is better" until you're blue in the face but until you actually define what you mean by "better" the best answer you can hope to get is something outlining the pros and cons of the various apps. I did it for WMC, but don't feel compelled to spend time breaking down every single DVR app for someone that can't be bothered to say what it is they want.
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post #265 of 1695 Old 05-03-2015, 03:15 PM
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Well let's see, according to this, there are about 120 million "households" in the US:
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html
According to this, 62% of them have a DVR (that's about 75 million):
http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/pre...15release.html
And according to this, Tivo has about 5 million subscribers:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GQ24220140826

So that's about 7% of the DVR market, so yeah, well over 90% of people with DVRs would rather just rent them from their provider than buy a box.



Not for this comparison it shouldn't, if you want to see the size of the market that Silicodust can realistically shoot for, you need to look at the people who are willing to look outside of what their provider gives them, and that's a tiny percentage. Just because you got a Tivo from your provider doesn't mean you're the type to buy a 3rd party DVR.
I don't think that's a valid number at all. The question that number is answering is 'how many people are willing to pay extra for a premium experience', not who's willing to go outside of their provider.

With TiVo, unless you hold onto a specific piece of hardware for a significant amount of time, you're actually paying more than what providers typically charge. And worse, a large portion is up front.

With this you'd actually be saving a significant amount of money. Especially since most will likely have at least some of the hardware already. And the ongoing service cost is $2.50 / month.

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post #266 of 1695 Old 05-03-2015, 04:01 PM
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I am surprised that they are looking for so much extra money to basically make a driver for their software.
I'm not sure what you mean. They have to write a client app for each of those platforms, with little in the way of direct shared code. Hiring developers is not cheap.
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post #267 of 1695 Old 05-03-2015, 08:04 PM
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It also ties up 2 tuner to record one channel in some situations where the stars align, padding is enabled, and back to back recordings are happening, and I'm not particularly fond of the way it handles recording a show after it has already started.

On my old Moto cable box, if I start watching a show, decide I like it and want to record the whole thing, it would get all of the show (as much as was in the recording buffer) when I hit the record button. So if I hadn't changed channels since I started watching, I would actually get the entire show. (at least all of it since the last time I changed channels) whereas WMC will just start recording from whatever point you hit the record button. (It doesn't go back to get the entire show)
Those are two of my gripes with WMC DVR. Also, despite having multiple tuners, it's never quite handled back to back recordings properly for me. For example, I recorded the Chicago Fire/Chicago PD/Law & Order SVU crossover last Wednesday and I'm missing a few seconds worth of scenes in-between PD and SVU.

Another issue is the time/clock goes out of sync if and only if I have something scheduled to record in WMC. I set up a scheduled task that runs twice a day to sync the time and that seems to have fixed this last issue.
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post #268 of 1695 Old 05-03-2015, 08:16 PM
 
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Those are two of my gripes with WMC DVR. Also, despite having multiple tuners, it's never quite handled back to back recordings properly for me. For example, I recorded the Chicago Fire/Chicago PD/Law & Order SVU crossover last Wednesday and I'm missing a few seconds worth of scenes in-between PD and SVU.

Another issue is the time/clock goes out of sync if and only if I have something scheduled to record in WMC. I set up a scheduled task that runs twice a day to sync the time and that seems to have fixed this last issue.
Yeah the clock thing is weird. Perhaps it has changed since I looke dinto it a few years ago but upon googling the problem, I discovered a bunch of Rube-Goldbergian solutions to get the clock to sync. for reasons not quite clear to me other than I guess they didn't want everybody and their brother hitting their time server every 15 minutes, but they seemed to have made it impossible to just make a normal task to automatically sync the time more often than MS prescribed.
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post #269 of 1695 Old 05-04-2015, 06:19 AM
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There's workarounds for the back-to-back recordings thing, but as mentioned, it's a Rube-Goldberg solution at best.
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post #270 of 1695 Old 05-04-2015, 09:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Raistlin_HT View Post
I'm not sure what you mean. They have to write a client app for each of those platforms, with little in the way of direct shared code. Hiring developers is not cheap.
But $50k to write an app for Kodi?
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