Big WMC guide changes starting today - Page 26 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #751 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 03:21 AM
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WMC guide back in PA.
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post #752 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 04:06 AM
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Exclamation

a few hours ago, mine came back too...it was some time between midnight and 3am in the morning, but i have no idea of what happened to actually fix it
(its still the same Guide version/end date)

and that whole: "you get what you pay for" thing -
I know that $25 a year isnt much to pay for a small upgrade to the Guide from a 3rd party....but I've already bought a (should be)working program from a very large company called Microsoft....I am very happy with their product when it works, and this has been the only time in the 12 years that ive been using it that ive had a guide data outage problem
....it cost a one time fee of $100 extra to add WMC to Windows8.1.... and was included in purchase of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 and Windows7 in the versions I paid extra for just so i could get WMC(I mostly skipped Vista except for one short lived laptop).....i should not have to pay extra again on top of that to someone else to get what i paid Microsoft for

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post #753 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Rush View Post

and that whole: "you get what you pay for" thing -
I know that $25 a year isnt much to pay for a small upgrade to the Guide from a 3rd party....but I've already bought a (should be)working program from a very large company called Microsoft....I am very happy with their product when it works, and this has been the only time in the 12 years that ive been using it that ive had a guide data outage problem
....it cost a one time fee of $100 extra to add WMC to Windows8.1.... and was included in purchase of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 and Windows7 in the versions I paid extra for just so i could get WMC(I mostly skipped Vista except for one short lived laptop).....i should not have to pay extra again on top of that to someone else to get what i paid Microsoft for

As I partly agree with you, Microsoft "OFFICALLY" killed off Windows Media Center in 2009. There has not been any updates from there. It's 2017, 8 years with free guide data, to be honest with you, we are very lucky that a lot of features on it still works (it's not just guide data, its music data and movie data that comes down too).

And maybe you have not had a lot of issues, it's been about 7-10 times now for me from the ROVI switch over. So a headache sometimes when you come back after a few days of not watching TV to find out nothing recorded over the last week.

If this was a small company, 2010 would of been IT... Microsoft does not owe you anything here. After the over and over screw ups with ROVI and how many of us are very vocal about the issues, it's just a matter of time till Microsoft says, good bye WMC for good.

We are beyond lucky that we even get guude data at this point.

-Dave

MCSE 2003
Windows Media Center specialist - MVP and Certified Home Theater specialist

Avid gamer and home theater junkie..

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post #754 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 07:14 AM
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EPG123 works fine with OTA and DirecTV sources. Lineup 1 is sat, 2 is OTA. In case that matters.
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post #755 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
a few hours ago, mine came back too...it was some time between midnight and 3am in the morning, but i have no idea of what happened to actually fix it
(its still the same Guide version/end date)

and that whole: "you get what you pay for" thing -
I know that $25 a year isnt much to pay for a small upgrade to the Guide from a 3rd party....but I've already bought a (should be)working program from a very large company called Microsoft....I am very happy with their product when it works, and this has been the only time in the 12 years that ive been using it that ive had a guide data outage problem
....it cost a one time fee of $100 extra to add WMC to Windows8.1.... and was included in purchase of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 and Windows7 in the versions I paid extra for just so i could get WMC(I mostly skipped Vista except for one short lived laptop).....i should not have to pay extra again on top of that to someone else to get what i paid Microsoft for
I would respectively suggest you've gotten really good value for the $$ spent. For a product to last and be usable for that long in today's tech market is really pretty remarkable.
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post #756 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 10:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
a few hours ago, mine came back too...it was some time between midnight and 3am in the morning, but i have no idea of what happened to actually fix it
(its still the same Guide version/end date)

and that whole: "you get what you pay for" thing -
I know that $25 a year isnt much to pay for a small upgrade to the Guide from a 3rd party....but I've already bought a (should be)working program from a very large company called Microsoft....I am very happy with their product when it works, and this has been the only time in the 12 years that ive been using it that ive had a guide data outage problem
....it cost a one time fee of $100 extra to add WMC to Windows8.1.... and was included in purchase of Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 and Windows7 in the versions I paid extra for just so i could get WMC(I mostly skipped Vista except for one short lived laptop).....i should not have to pay extra again on top of that to someone else to get what i paid Microsoft for
The ToS that you probably didn't bother to read, but most certainly accepted when you setup WMC makes it very clear that MS is under no obligation to provide you with guide data, and can cease doing so at any point. You paid for the software which is working just fine. The service that you happen to get for free most certainly does fall under the category of "you get what you pay for."
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post #757 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree View Post
EPG123 works fine with OTA and DirecTV sources. Lineup 1 is sat, 2 is OTA. In case that matters.
Creating two lineups, in this case OTA and cable, threw me for a bit.

Have you updated to a new release of EPG? Deleting the old version before installing the new will presumably also delete lineups.

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post #758 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
As I partly agree with you, Microsoft "OFFICALLY" killed off Windows Media Center in 2009. There has not been any updates from there. It's 2017, 8 years with free guide data, to be honest with you, we are very lucky that a lot of features on it still works (it's not just guide data, its music data and movie data that comes down too).
...
Microsoft was still selling Windows Media Center up to just a year and a half ago
October 30, 2015 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...available-to-b

i think a lot of this has to do with their loss in the HDDVD vs BluRay battle...after that, they didnt want to support BluRay and would include on-line streaming instead(so they plopped NetFlix in WMC for awhile)..now they have dropped support to play movies from any disc with Win10(they had Windows DVD Player app free for a short time for those that went from Win7/8 with WMC to Win10)...with music, movies, and all sorts of video media being such a strong part of todays world, I keep hoping they will support it somehow(something new?) unless they just feel they can no longer compete at all

I think with music there are a lot of ways to get cover art and info....but with movies, there is the DVDID.xml on every disc(at least with DVDs, not sure what exact form this is on BluRay discs but some info file is on them)...I didnt think that Microsoft made them put that on there and was the only one who used it?
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post #759 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 06:18 PM
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Even with no support/data I won't abandon WMC. I will just enter the shows I want to record manually.
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post #760 of 944 Old 07-18-2017, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
If you watch the thread over at TGB...(the main WMC site). They are coming back one by one. Area by area it's starting to load up with guide data. My area, my channels have guide data but, I still see an error on download. As long as it works, right?

This is NOT the first time this issue has come up (it's been about 10 times now from the ROVI change over from Zap2it for me), nor will it the last one. It really might be a good time to think about the investment for good guide data.
Well, there have been two issues with the Rovi guide: one is the all-too-common experience of guide updates stopping altogether, averaging about 2 or 3 times a year since the changeover, but more often in the last few months. Usually, these get straightened back out just in the nick of time (although the guide did run out on me once early this year). The other is the issue cable users experienced recently, where higher-numbered channels lost their guide data completely. This only happened this one time, and OTA users like me weren't affected, as far as I can tell.

Looks like M$ finally has the second issue fixed - just in time for the latest recurrence of the first issue! I'm down to 7 days. Not (quite) time to panic just yet.

As for responsibility, I think it's been more on M$'s end, much as I'd like to blame Rovi/TiVo. I have a DVR+ that also uses their guide, and while there have been some scattered outages there too, it's been nothing like the WMC ones. The worsening problems do make you wonder why M$ bothers keeping the guide going at all.

As for switching to EPG123, I don't have a problem with the very modest SD fee. My big concern comes from remembering all the issues I had when M$ switched to Rovi in the first place: most station calls changed, WMC couldn't seem to remember which episodes of a series I'd already recorded, etc. I don't want to go through all that again!
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post #761 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 06:39 AM
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Got home from work this morning and have my guide back, finally.
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post #762 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 07:17 AM
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Got home from work this morning and have my guide back, finally.
How long was it gone? For me, anything less than 10 days of data in the guide is not acceptable.
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post #763 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 09:47 AM
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I lost track, 3 weeks? I still had standard def channels but didn't know it until last week since I never watch them.
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post #764 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
Microsoft was still selling Windows Media Center up to just a year and a half ago
October 30, 2015 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...available-to-b

i think a lot of this has to do with their loss in the HDDVD vs BluRay battle...after that, they didnt want to support BluRay and would include on-line streaming instead(so they plopped NetFlix in WMC for awhile)..now they have dropped support to play movies from any disc with Win10(they had Windows DVD Player app free for a short time for those that went from Win7/8 with WMC to Win10)...with music, movies, and all sorts of video media being such a strong part of todays world, I keep hoping they will support it somehow(something new?) unless they just feel they can no longer compete at all

I think with music there are a lot of ways to get cover art and info....but with movies, there is the DVDID.xml on every disc(at least with DVDs, not sure what exact form this is on BluRay discs but some info file is on them)...I didnt think that Microsoft made them put that on there and was the only one who used it?

Sure they were SELLING Windows Media Center on Windows 8/8.1 because of the DRM costs and the licences needed for DVD suppport. This was the offical reason why Microsoft was SELLING on Windows 8.1 and it came for free on Windows 7 (on Windows 7 it was an active product).

The offical eHome team (Microsoft's eHome team was responsable for creating and upgrading all version of WMC from XP to the last new version on Windows 7) was broken up in 2009 where the LAST update came. Windows 8.1 version was a slighly modified version from Windows 7 (with parts disabled from 7). The LAST *NEW* version of Windows Media Center came with Windows 7.

I personally had 3-4 contacts on the eHome team, as I was cerifited in it and was a MVP for 2007-2011. I actually ran a business for a few years building custom ones and sold about 200 of them at the time.

It was discontued because of a small user base (offical from Microsoft). This was a product where the max advertisting got a 5 second part in a Windows VISTA commerical (besides some XP days commericals when it was on a dedicated PC). This had NOTHING to do with HD-DVD or Blu-ray.

I assure you this IS the history on Windows Media Center (some exact dates might vary a hair as I would need to look them up but, it's how WMC died)

Music data comes from Microsoft, and Movie data I was refering to in the guide, Movie library needed a 3rd party app or a manual creation of it. It did work with DVD movies for a while and that stopped working a long time ago.

-Dave

MCSE 2003
Windows Media Center specialist - MVP and Certified Home Theater specialist

Avid gamer and home theater junkie..

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post #765 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 01:03 PM
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Mine was gone over two weeks as I missed at least a weeks worth of recordings. Most of which are auto racing and I noticed as I am missing an entire weekend covering 7 series. In any case, I switched to EPG in time to get the following weekends worth of events. And I suspect before my sub to EPG expires next year, I won't be using cable or worried about the guide anyway.
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post #766 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidinCT View Post
........... Movie library needed a 3rd party app or a manual creation of it. It did work with DVD movies for a while and that stopped working a long time ago.
Ive never had to use a 3rd party app for the Movie Library
...well thats not totally true...years ago I did make the mistake of using YAMMM and/or MyMovies to update/replace/add dvdid.xml files..and I didnt realize it was just making fake ones that wouldnt work on other computers.....I still am finding them in my movie folders to this day, and having to dig the discs back out of storage or go on http://www.dvdxml.com/search.php to get the real disc id that WMC can use by default

thats actually one of the big reasons why I would not want to use anymore 3rd party app/plug-ins/guide providers...as I want the same default stuff to work the same way on every computer new or old...........and I'm glad that they stopped upgrading WMC, and I have Windows Update turned off on my main THPC; as it works fine as is...heck I run IOS 6.1.3 on my same old iPhone 4S (that fits in my pocket and doesnt break nor run down the battery every day) just because apps and junk can't update anymore...all the important stuff I actually really need my phone to do, it does without fail..
....I dont need the hassle of non stop updates or added expense to something that works just fine as is, esp. for some small improvement like a different show poster or synopsis
and my DVD movies never stopped working, so I dont know what you are talking about there
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post #767 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 01:49 PM
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With all the ransomware attacks lately, I don't think turning off WU is very wise
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post #768 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 06:00 PM
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With all the ransomware attacks lately, I don't think turning off WU is very wise
huh? the only problems i've ever had with that system have been from Windows or driver updates, so i stopped doing that maybe 5 years ago....its run 24/7 for 7-8 years with WMC full screen, only being turned off for any length of time when i've had to replace(twice) a drive in the RAID5+1...only thing it ever has to do on-line is update the Guide(think its also just running Windows Defender which would use the Internet, but i'd have to check if it even has that) but it doesnt have a bunch of junk installed on it or have to be used for anything else...we never even have to use the KB or mouse(they are in a drawer, i know the battery is dead in the mouse when i tried it a few years ago, but the kb batteries are hanging in there)....i kinda thought it was cool when it had NetFlix for awhile, and used that a bunch watching documentaries, but thats gone now(that update came and went thru the WMC guide updater) i think we used the kb with that, and that used the Internet of course....but its gonna have a much harder time catching a bug since it never goes out

I think people often believe newer is always better, and that upgrading and updating are always mandatory...but really its never like that at all if there are no gains to be made
...i keep thinking that I should change out the hard drives(it has six 1TB which were the biggest i could get at the time, and one 500gb OS/recorded TV drive) as thats the only thing that could make any/much difference
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post #769 of 944 Old 07-20-2017, 08:26 PM
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I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Newer isn't always better. I still use Windows 7 - I refused to jump on the Win 8/8.1/10 bandwagon. And I'm picky about just which updates I apply to it, especially after M$ tried so hard to get everyone to "upgrade" to Win 10 via WU. These days, I stick to the "security only" updates and eschew the "security and quality rollups."

But your logic is flawed. "I've never been hit with malware or ransomware, therefore I don't need updates" is like saying "I've never been burglarized, therefore I don't need to lock my doors."

But, it's your system and your money. Do what you will; hopefully your luck will continue.
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post #770 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
...

But your logic is flawed. "I've never been hit with malware or ransomware, therefore I don't need updates" is like saying "I've never been burglarized, therefore I don't need to lock my doors."

....
yeah, no...thats not my logic tho

mine is more like:
"I dont need a house in a crime ridden urban setting, no one ever has to come and go every few hours, and i dont even have mail delivered there...so something simple and safe outside of town is fine, its built well enough that i wont have to do a bunch of repairs or maintenance to it"
as opposed to
" man, ive got this rental property in the worst part of town, and ive given out so many keys that people who just are friends with the people i rented to are coming and going all the time....so ive got to constantly change the locks, clean out all the trash they leave behind, fix random stuff they somehow broke, re-paint, and put in better windows that open and close easier with new latches that dont break all the time....even the guy i hired to sit by the front door with a shotgun doesnt know who really lives there and a few times took shots at me"
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post #771 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 10:56 AM
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No windows update for me either. Once everything works, I leave it alone. Updates sometime screw things up.
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post #772 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 10:59 AM
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Oh, come on. You don't have to live in a slum to see the value in locking the doors to your home!

Besides, on the Internet, there are no "bad" or "good" neighborhoods; we're all part of the same giant global village. (Except, I suppose, for heavily censored regimes like China, Saudi Arabia, etc. But I'm pretty sure you don't live in any of those places.)

But I'll repeat what I said: it's your system and your money. Do what you will; hopefully your luck will continue.
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post #773 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 12:40 PM
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but its not "luck"

I've dealt with some very nasty bugs on computers before..one was on a Win2000pro computer at work(pretty much hostageware or what ever you want to call it, but when you would boot the computer all it would say is "not today" and there was nothing you could do), and for some reason I put it on a floppy and took it home with me, years later I was looking for a floppy I could use and pulled that one out to see what was on it...yup, dumped it right on to my own XP computer(full updates and protection on all the systems)

so the best virus protection and all the updates in the world still wont save you from 'bad luck' or stupidity

....I would say the best way to stop a computer threat is to simply let the battery in the mouse die(which ive done), so nobody can click on junk

(and find me anyone under the age of 50 who knows how to use a computer without a mouse or the Internet) most people who see and use my WMC THPC dont even know its a computer

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post #774 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Well, there have been two issues with the Rovi guide: one is the all-too-common experience of guide updates stopping altogether, averaging about 2 or 3 times a year since the changeover, but more often in the last few months. Usually, these get straightened back out just in the nick of time (although the guide did run out on me once early this year). The other is the issue cable users experienced recently, where higher-numbered channels lost their guide data completely. This only happened this one time, and OTA users like me weren't affected, as far as I can tell.

Looks like M$ finally has the second issue fixed - just in time for the latest recurrence of the first issue! I'm down to 7 days. Not (quite) time to panic just yet.
Trying to get the thread back on track (whether or not to update Windows is admittedly OT), I just wanted to let everyone know the Rovi guide is back to a full load: 11 days (for me; some folks get 12). Panic averted! (Of course I understand EPG123 gives you 21 days; another reason some may find it worth the modest $25/year fee.)

Besides frequent outages, I do have another recurring issue with the Rovi guide: I only have 10 days of good data. The 11th day, a week from Monday, is generic garbage as usual. This will, of course, get worse through the weekend as successive "updates" add generic garbage for Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Then next Monday everything will finally get cleared up (assuming no further outages before then) and I'll have good data for the "out" week, until next Friday when the cycle will start all over again.

The generic garbage makes my series recordings schedule bogus "new" episodes, only to disappear again when good data finally comes in and WMC realizes they were all reruns after all. Not a huge deal, but it is annoying.
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post #775 of 944 Old 07-21-2017, 09:15 PM
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.....
The generic garbage makes my series recordings schedule bogus "new" episodes, only to disappear again when good data finally comes in and WMC realizes they were all reruns after all. Not a huge deal, but it is annoying.
try manually updating your Guide

[green button on your remote] > Tasks > settings > TV > Guide > Get Latest Guide Listings


when I had this first Guide outage, my "About Guide Listings" reported a guide end date @ 7/26/2017 even tho the guide data was incomplete
...once the guide came back, it still had that same end date.... since then it renewed itself up till 8/1/2017....but i just ran the " Get Latest Guide Listings " and now its up to 8/3/2017 5:00AM ....so updates might happen more often than you think....and taking some effort to manually update might help with your perceived problem vs totally relying on automatic updates
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post #776 of 944 Old 07-22-2017, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post
...I've had consistent guide data good for 3 weeks out since I made the switch, even when it was in beta.
Have you updated 123epg after initial install? Does one install a new version over old one or is there a method of doing a clean install and preserving lineups?
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post #777 of 944 Old 07-22-2017, 09:04 AM
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Have you updated 123epg after initial install? Does one install a new version over old one or is there a method of doing a clean install and preserving lineups?
Once you install EPG123, updates to the EPG123 versions are as simple as copying new over the old files. The author has an installer now you can run but also supplies portable zips for all versions so you can upgrade either way. Upgrading has never forced you to re-set up WMC or cause you to lose scheduled recordings. There was one EPG123 breaking version upgrade which made it necessary to run a supplemental program the author created to handle some migration after installing new files. That had no effect on scheduled recordings or history or even lineup configuration and did not require any set up again in WMC.
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post #778 of 944 Old 07-22-2017, 05:25 PM
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I had to do a complete reinstall because the last time I updated it dumped over my old files like I had in the past but it didn't work. I don't remember my version numbers, but it's possible that I had enough gap that it spanned too many revs. Wasn't that big of a deal anyway because I had my whole setup borked and have to set up all my recordings again, but the last I checked, epg123 was still working fine. Suppose I should check it again.
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post #779 of 944 Old 07-23-2017, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by T Rush View Post
try manually updating your Guide
[green button on your remote] > Tasks > settings > TV > Guide > Get Latest Guide Listings
Easier is to make a daily task running "c:\windows\ehome\mcupdate.exe"
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post #780 of 944 Old 07-23-2017, 10:29 AM
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There should already be a daily task for that. But if a straight manual update (using either method) doesn't work, try adding a few flags to the command. Run (as administrator) "c:\windows\ehome\mcupdate.exe -uf -dbgc".

The -uf forces a complete guide download, even if WMC thinks you already have the latest guide. (I've had to do that when my guide gets "stuck," only downloading the Dish listings I use on a few channels, but not the OTA listings I use on most.) The -dbgc runs database garbage collection (the taskbar icon will say "Starting Client Maintenance" during this process).
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