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post #1 of 44 Old 08-02-2015, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Windows 10 Media Center Alternative

Hello all, since upgrading to windows 10, I have been looking for a replacement for live tv viewing and recording. I've tried a few, J river, media portal, None worked to my expectations, either crashing, or no program guide downloads.
I did find a solution finally! I first installed NextPVR, Found my tuners, even my cheap Kworld usb one. Ran the setup, and was able to get the ATSC guide loaded,
Next, I ran Kodi, and set up the included addon for NextPVR. This worked perfect, and was all open sourced.
I am regretting, the purchase of J River, but hopefully the will get all thier bugs fixed.
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post #2 of 44 Old 08-03-2015, 07:00 AM
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What tuner are you using?
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post #3 of 44 Old 08-03-2015, 07:27 AM
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Emby with EmbyTV plugin seems to work OK. I went ahead and subscribed to Schedules Direct for a year to test out my options. I haven't moved to Kodi and already have Emby on all my devices. EmbyTV is getting built into the core server product in a future build and is already built in the Dev build.

I'm still testing and had trouble getting NextPVR running on my Server 2012r2 Essentials build. I created a Win7 VM just for NextPVR and got the Emby NextPVR plugin working, but it was having guide issues. EmbyTV plugin connects directly to a HDHR (Prime) and doesn't require an additional backend server.

I was just testing the TV streaming over LTE with an HD channel and it seems to work well.

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post #4 of 44 Old 08-03-2015, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by orl2222 View Post
I am regretting, the purchase of J River, but hopefully the will get all thier bugs fixed.
I don't know what issues your having with JRiver, but other than the recent trouble with the EPG guide data changing, it has been working fine for me with my two Hauppauge Tuners. Since you "already have a subscription to SD", you could use the free mc2xml program to get the EPG data and just import into JRiver with the xmltv import tool.

JRiver said their going to focus more on the TV/Video side of things (to pickup some of the ex-WMC users) so I expect to see a lot of progress in this area over the next couple of weeks/months.
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post #5 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 09:57 AM
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Are you using this to watch encrypted cable channels? Unless something's happened recently that I haven't heard about, there are no CableCARD-capable alternatives to WMC for Windows 10. Our family will have to stay on Windows 7 (or 8.1 at best) until such an alternative comes out.
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post #6 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 10:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post
Are you using this to watch encrypted cable channels? Unless something's happened recently that I haven't heard about, there are no CableCARD-capable alternatives to WMC for Windows 10. Our family will have to stay on Windows 7 (or 8.1 at best) until such an alternative comes out.
Not to be nit-picky but I think you're terminology is a bit off. There are a few different TV/DVR packages that have support for cablecard tuners including encrypted channels. (and afaik they all run on Win10) But as of right now WMC is the only thing that supports flagged/copy-protected content. (it's possible to encrypt a channel, but not flag the content as copy-once, and my understanding is that several providers do so)
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post #7 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
Not to be nit-picky but I think you're terminology is a bit off. There are a few different TV/DVR packages that have support for cablecard tuners including encrypted channels. (and afaik they all run on Win10) But as of right now WMC is the only thing that supports flagged/copy-protected content. (it's possible to encrypt a channel, but not flag the content as copy-once, and my understanding is that several providers do so)
Just to clarify. An unencrypted channel would be a Clear QAM channel. Copy-Freely is encrypted, and what other SW solutions can record/playback with a CableCard tuner. Anything above that (Copy-Once and Copy-Never) is WMC only for now.

Last edited by staknhalo; 08-05-2015 at 10:37 AM.
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post #8 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 10:34 AM
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I'll just use Win 7 until Jriver comes out with a solution. Its not a big deal yet..
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post #9 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CountryBumkin View Post
I don't know what issues your having with JRiver, but other than the recent trouble with the EPG guide data changing, it has been working fine for me with my two Hauppauge Tuners. Since you "already have a subscription to SD", you could use the free mc2xml program to get the EPG data and just import into JRiver with the xmltv import tool.

JRiver said their going to focus more on the TV/Video side of things (to pickup some of the ex-WMC users) so I expect to see a lot of progress in this area over the next couple of weeks/months.
Hate to piggy-back on your thread OP, but this kind of piqued my interest.

I was super-happy with my setup, I'm using WMC7 with a Ceton 6-tuner card. We use our HTPC for Blu-Rays, Netflix, Amazon Prime, and of course recording shows . . . which is where the problem hits. We do record a lot of copy protected stuff, which is the big sticking point. Is JRiver going to be able to playback and record copy protected content at some point? I thankfully wasn't impacted by the guide switchover too much, but if we're going to keep losing features I guess I need to start looking for an alternative.
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post #10 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 10:50 AM
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but if we're going to keep losing features I guess I need to start looking for an alternative.
Well, TBH this should be it until guide data runs out. They already announced Netflix plugin going away next month; everything else in WMC either relies on your local media or guide data. There's no more plugins/extensions offered by Microsoft left to remove without editing WMC code (though I suppose they could hide strips like they did the Sports Strip, but there's no need to for reasons explained above).
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post #11 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajhieb View Post
Not to be nit-picky but I think you're terminology is a bit off. There are a few different TV/DVR packages that have support for cablecard tuners including encrypted channels. (and afaik they all run on Win10) But as of right now WMC is the only thing that supports flagged/copy-protected content. (it's possible to encrypt a channel, but not flag the content as copy-once, and my understanding is that several providers do so)
Let me put it this way: if the alternative recording system under consideration can't record from HBO or Showtime, then it's a non-starter with the wife.

Basically, anything that requires being aware of whether a program or channel is "Copy Freely" vs. "Copy Once" etc., will immediately drop the WAF to 0.
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post #12 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 11:08 AM
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Right. I mean hopefully the guide data will persist for a while since Rovi will be used for XBOne, it's just kind of nerve-wracking wondering what we're going to lose next. I went through it with ArcSoft already, LOL. I'm spoiled having one box under the TV, I don't want to have to have a couple of them!
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post #13 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post
Let me put it this way: if the alternative recording system under consideration can't record from HBO or Showtime, then it's a non-starter with the wife.

Basically, anything that requires being aware of whether a program or channel is "Copy Freely" vs. "Copy Once" etc., will immediately drop the WAF to 0.
Yup. Same here.
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post #14 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 04:48 PM
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Right. I mean hopefully the guide data will persist for a while since Rovi will be used for XBOne, it's just kind of nerve-wracking wondering what we're going to lose next. I went through it with ArcSoft already, LOL. I'm spoiled having one box under the TV, I don't want to have to have a couple of them!
I hear you! For years we happily taped our shows on a VCR that had a QAM tuner. One summer we went away on vacation for a week -- only to find out that Comcast picked that exact week to start scrambling cable channels like CNN and Lifetime.

So instead of having zero Comcast boxes, we had to start renting a DVR box and picking and choosing what to keep or erase. When I got tired of paying monthly rent to do something that previously I could do for free (recording shows from channels that we subscribed to), that's when I started to look into WMC. Love it.
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post #15 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JorgeA View Post
Let me put it this way: if the alternative recording system under consideration can't record from HBO or Showtime, then it's a non-starter with the wife.

Basically, anything that requires being aware of whether a program or channel is "Copy Freely" vs. "Copy Once" etc., will immediately drop the WAF to 0.
There practically no need to record HBO or Sho anymore since you can stream everything on them anytime, like Netflix. Copy Freely recording is better than nothing.
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post #16 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 06:06 PM
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There practically no need to record HBO or Sho anymore since you can stream everything on them anytime, like Netflix. Copy Freely recording is better than nothing.
Game of Thrones is not on Netflix. Nor are Ballers or True Detective. Last I checked the HBO streaming app is not supported by Comcast. So, kinda stuck.
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post #17 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 06:34 PM
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Game of Thrones is not on Netflix. Nor are Ballers or True Detective. Last I checked the HBO streaming app is not supported by Comcast. So, kinda stuck.
By "like Netflix", I meant everything is available all the time, on demand, not that HBO content is on Netflix. All content is on HBOGo which has been available on Comcast for a while now. So you're not really stuck.

http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast...ire-tv-devices
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post #18 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 07:01 PM
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The problem is, many of us just want ALL our TV in one app.. not have to jump to some website to stream, back over to netflix, over to amazon prime, etc. WMC with CableCARD accomplishes that. It makes navigation with a remote and a 10ft interface perfect. Currently there is no 'future' solution, and WMC is still needed. Until the day something else comes along (IPTV, a new CableCARD like solution, etc) that can be used in a single 10ft interface, I'll continue to use an older operating system with my HTPC's. I'm testing out Emby + ServerWMC right now inside a VM.. so far it meets _my_ needs, but may not meet everyone's.
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post #19 of 44 Old 08-05-2015, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
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One of my tuners is a cheap Kworld usb 29.00 ATSC tuners. I don't watch a lot of premium channels with my fios box. I travel a lot, so I do have HBO Go. To be honest, most of the pay channels repeat them selves over and over again. I still believe that WMC was the best for recording over the air, but, with Microsoft basically saying that windows 10 is the future, I guess we are all having to find alternatives. My problem with J River was the guide info, and also constant TS rendering crashes. I just hate jumping thru hoops to make something work.
NPVR was pretty simple to setup. and hasn't crashed on windows 10.
The apps available on windows 10 have improved, Hulu isn't crashing like on 8.1, and the netfix app is outstanding.
I guess we will have to wait for a all in one solution. I'd love to see kodi integrate native windows 10 apps as addons, I do know Netflix probably won't let them.
Why don't I use my fios box for recording? I hate the menu for one.
I do love the simplicity of kodi.
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post #20 of 44 Old 08-06-2015, 07:26 AM
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MS announced DVR support for OTA coming to Xbox One next year, FYI.
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post #21 of 44 Old 08-06-2015, 10:06 AM
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The problem is, many of us just want ALL our TV in one app.. not have to jump to some website to stream, back over to netflix, over to amazon prime, etc. WMC with CableCARD accomplishes that. It makes navigation with a remote and a 10ft interface perfect. Currently there is no 'future' solution, and WMC is still needed. Until the day something else comes along (IPTV, a new CableCARD like solution, etc) that can be used in a single 10ft interface, I'll continue to use an older operating system with my HTPC's. I'm testing out Emby + ServerWMC right now inside a VM.. so far it meets _my_ needs, but may not meet everyone's.
Tivo comes close with built in Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Plex support, although Plex is limited to 720P and no lossless audio when streaming Blu-ray rips from my server. For my smaller TVs in the bedrooms that's not really a problem though and saves me from installing another media device there.

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post #22 of 44 Old 08-06-2015, 10:16 AM
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By "like Netflix", I meant everything is available all the time, on demand, not that HBO content is on Netflix. All content is on HBOGo which has been available on Comcast for a while now. So you're not really stuck.

http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast...ire-tv-devices
He's right.. You can basically watch anything you want anytime. Honestly,there isn't much you even have to record anymore. I've been watching most of the stuff I normally DVR right from the Xfinity website. Some of the show's I could give or take,I just stream off Xfinity. Just watched all 8 seasons of Entourage. Started watching Ballers. I watch Ray Donovan.. None of these do I need to DVR. I don't know if you can stream everything,but I give Comcast a lot of credit for doing this. Not only does it save space,it almost makes WMC obsolete. Almost. If you think about it,you wouldn't even need a Cable card anymore. Just stream it online. Obviously you would need at least one box in the house.
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post #23 of 44 Old 08-06-2015, 10:25 AM
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By "like Netflix", I meant everything is available all the time, on demand, not that HBO content is on Netflix. All content is on HBOGo which has been available on Comcast for a while now. So you're not really stuck.

http://corporate.comcast.com/comcast...ire-tv-devices
Appreciated, last I checked it wasn't working with Comcast at least on the Roku.

It's not an all in one solution but it's something.
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post #24 of 44 Old 08-06-2015, 11:36 PM
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One thing I like to do is to build up a store of Major League Baseball games during the season, to watch during the dark months of November to February and get my baseball fix. And since my favorite team is three states away, OTA recording is out of the question. WMC fills the bill nicely.

Is there any way to get complete, uncut baseball games (not "highlights") on TV once the season is over, other than recording them live for playback later?
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post #25 of 44 Old 08-07-2015, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ToddUGA View Post
Tivo comes close with built in Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Plex support, although Plex is limited to 720P and no lossless audio when streaming Blu-ray rips from my server. For my smaller TVs in the bedrooms that's not really a problem though and saves me from installing another media device there.
I also cannot stand the poor quality of the online streaming. The macroblocking, even with my 100mbit connection is very distracting. Whoever does their encodes (or limits their outgoing bandwidth) does a terrible job. Don't even get me started on 2ch audio when a 5.1 track is supposed to be available. TrueHD and DTS-HD? Forget about it.
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post #26 of 44 Old 11-12-2015, 10:49 AM
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I'll just use Win 7 until Jriver comes out with a solution. Its not a big deal yet..
We plan to work on a Copy Once solution. There's a thread on our forum about it.

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post #27 of 44 Old 11-13-2015, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jtscribe View Post
Right. I mean hopefully the guide data will persist for a while since Rovi will be used for XBOne, it's just kind of nerve-wracking wondering what we're going to lose next. I went through it with ArcSoft already, LOL. I'm spoiled having one box under the TV, I don't want to have to have a couple of them!

At least ALL the newest boxes are small enough to tuck away out of sight.

I gave up on the "one box to rule them all" mentality years ago (when blu ray players first added netflix).
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post #28 of 44 Old 11-15-2015, 01:37 PM
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We plan to work on a Copy Once solution. There's a thread on our forum about it.
That's great news! Thanks for the heads up. I will follow it on your forum..
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post #29 of 44 Old 11-19-2015, 03:29 PM
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We plan to work on a Copy Once solution. There's a thread on our forum about it.
The Kickstarter campaign is live now:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/inde...topic=101468.0

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post #30 of 44 Old 11-19-2015, 04:11 PM
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The Kickstarter campaign is live now:

http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/inde...topic=101468.0
Would you mind posting a video of the TV Guide gui as it is now? I've looked everywhere and can't find a video of the TV interface...
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