It's still illegal to rip discs for personal use - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 05:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation It's still illegal to rip discs for personal use

Here's an article http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...-personal-use/

I don't know how some think upholding educational and film study ripping of portions of a disc translates to ripping entire discs for personal use...

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Movie enthusiasts hoping to legally make backup copies or space-shift or format-shift their legally purchased DVD or Blu-ray discs are out of luck. Agreeing with rights holders' and the Motion Picture Association of America's doomsday predictions, the Librarian of Congress on Tuesday rejected, again, another proposal that would allow users to finally rips these items for personal use.

Both forms of discs come complete with encryption protocols that cannot be circumvented for such personal uses, David Mao, the acting Librarian of Congress, ruled (PDF) in response to a request by Public Knowledge. Every three years, US copyright regulators entertain and rule on proposals for Digital Millennium Copyright exemptions.The DMCA prohibits circumventing encryption or access controls to copy or modify copyrighted works. Even if an exemption has been granted, it must be renewed in three years or it expires.

Because there is no encryption on CD music discs, however, owners of them are free to make backup copies or shift the tracks to a digital format under the concept of fair use. "These results continue to show the flaws in the law and the process of the DMCA. Even though the law clearly allows consumers to move their media between their personal devices, the Librarian of Congress and the Register of Copyrights allow the smallest mote of uncertainty to keep a common-sense activity illegal," said Sherwin Siy, the vice president for legal affairs at Public Knowledge in Washington, DC.

Regulators did grant DMCA exemptions to tinkering with the software on vehicles for research and modification purposes in addition to tinkering with the software on voting machines and medical devices.

Mao also (kinda) granted a highly confusing DMCA exemption for 3D printing devices to allow people to unlock them to enable the printing of material not approved by a printer's manufacturers.

The librarian did grant DMCA exemptions for copying "short portions" of DVDs or Blu-rays for "use in documentary filmmaking" and for "nonfiction multimedia e-books offering film analysis." Teachers and students may also crack the discs "for educational purposes" and for "film studies or other courses requiring close analysis of film and media excerpts."

Literary works distributed electronically may be cracked to enable read-aloud functionality for the disabled. Regulators also allowed unlocking and/or jailbreaking of mobile phones, "all-purpose" tablets, wearables, and smart TVs." A DMCA exemption to copying video games was also granted for limited purposes.

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post #2 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 08:08 AM
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Movie enthusiasts hoping to legally make backup copies or space-shift or format-shift their legally purchased DVD or Blu-ray discs are out of luck. Agreeing with rights holders' and the Motion Picture Association of America's doomsday predictions, the Librarian of Congress on Tuesday rejected, again, another proposal that would allow users to finally rips these items for personal use.
Well this would explain why you've never been able to find movies originally ripped from DVD and Blu-ray online. Oh wait. That's right. No one really GAF in the end, the genie has long been out of the bottle and he ain't going back in.
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post #3 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 08:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cdru View Post
Well this would explain why you've never been able to find movies originally ripped from DVD and Blu-ray online. Oh wait. That's right. No one really GAF in the end, the genie has long been out of the bottle and he ain't going back in.
True. However, just because the genie is out of the bottle doesn't mean the MPAA is going to make it legal. I don't really GAF either, but there are those here that believe this ripping is now legal in the US. Nothing has changed as it relates to ripping. This just renewed the previous fair use for another three years.
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post #4 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 08:26 AM
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Really?! Wow, I better delete my stored library and cease to using MWC/Kodi for movie playback. Damn, I hate knowing...Everything works so perfectly now too. It's gonna sux big time playing the movies from the DVD Player but, hey, I don't want to be breaking any laws.
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post #5 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rontalley View Post
Really?! Wow, I better delete my stored library and cease to using MWC/Kodi for movie playback. Damn, I hate knowing...Everything works so perfectly now too. It's gonna sux big time playing the movies from the DVD Player but, hey, I don't want to be breaking any laws.
Maybe you could upgrade to a Blu-ray player?

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post #6 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:02 AM
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Not to belittle this...but....who gives a flying **** anymore?

Music piracy stopped (for the most part) because you could buy a track for .99 instead of paying $10 for the whole CD. Make digital movies DRM free and priced at $1.99 and watch the crowds scramble to buy.

In the end, it's ALWAYS about money, and these morons have yet to acknowledge that their archaic model isn't working.
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post #7 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:09 AM
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Legal or not, if a DVD or Blu-Ray is being ripped by the owner of the purchased media and not being distributed illegally, it's a victimless crime and a completely unenforceable law. The only reason the law was ever put in place was to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted intellectual material. From a user's viewpoint, it is perfectly legal because nobody is ever going to prosecute you for doing it. If the law isn't enforced, it's like it was never on the books to begin with. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of laws still in existence that are never enforced because nobody gives a crap about them anymore. It's just too much trouble for legislators to get rid of them so they essentially whither away and die from lack of interest.
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post #8 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Not to belittle this...but....who gives a flying **** anymore?

Music piracy stopped (for the most part) because you could buy a track for .99 instead of paying $10 for the whole CD. Make digital movies DRM free and priced at $1.99 and watch the crowds scramble to buy.

In the end, it's ALWAYS about money, and these morons have yet to acknowledge that their archaic model isn't working.
I think the movie industry was slower to get with the times compared to the music industry mainly due to file size. Anyone could download a music file back in the day, even over dial-up. Movie piracy was largely immune for years until real high speed internet took over. The whole things is a mess. I guess I'll continue to break the law and keep enjoying my media library the way I wish.

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post #9 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:13 AM
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Regulators did grant DMCA exemptions to tinkering with the software on vehicles for research and modification purposes in addition to tinkering with the software on voting machines and medical devices.
I thought it was an article from The Onion when I read that bit.
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post #10 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:14 AM
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That's great and all but I don't think it's relevant to anyone here anyway and nor will anyone care. Those that rip will continue to do so, those that don't will continue that. I don't rip, but not for legal reason, just because I'm fine with playing physical discs.
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post #11 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Legal or not, if a DVD or Blu-Ray is being ripped by the owner of the purchased media and not being distributed illegally, it's a victimless crime and a completely unenforceable law. The only reason the law was ever put in place was to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted intellectual material. From a user's viewpoint, it is perfectly legal because nobody is ever going to prosecute you for doing it. If the law isn't enforced, it's like it was never on the books to begin with. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of laws still in existence that are never enforced because nobody gives a crap about them anymore. It's just too much trouble for legislators to get rid of them so they essentially whither away and die from lack of interest.
But if it was truly legal then we could get nicer things. For instance most new cars include a feature where you pop in a CD and it copies it to an internal HDD. Wouldn't it be nice if your home Blu-ray player did that for you?
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post #12 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:38 AM
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The problem with ripping is most are not making copies of their media. They're making copies from RedBox and other rental sources, libraries and friends media. It hurts the industry and increases the price of recorded media for the consumer. It's even more despicable when they then upload the image to "cyber-lockers" and allow anyone to access and download the copy. The cyber-locker pays the uploader per copy and the site gets revenue by upcharging for better/faster transfer rates. The artist and replicator get nothing. Losses on popular movies could run into thousands if not millions.
I actually have no problem with making copies, but why does it have to be before or right after the street date?? Why not let the replicators and artists get their share? You can still rip it after its popularity drops. Most sales are during the first six weeks. I doubt replicators would even protect their content if they had a window of opportunity to recoup their investments.
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post #13 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post
But if it was truly legal then we could get nicer things. For instance most new cars include a feature where you pop in a CD and it copies it to an internal HDD. Wouldn't it be nice if your home Blu-ray player did that for you?
It'd be nice for people that aren't familiar with computers, but I think that's about it.


Funny enough I'm not sure why they don't just have something like that already--they could keep the rips encrypted by some means and then if you ever removed the HDD it would just be useless. I mean that's essentially how PVRs work, right? Not only that don't cable recordings with the "copy once" flag, made on other devices/PCs, work the same too?
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post #14 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post
It'd be nice for people that aren't familiar with computers, but I think that's about it.


Funny enough I'm not sure why they don't just have something like that already--they could keep the rips encrypted by some means and then if you ever removed the HDD it would just be useless. I mean that's essentially how PVRs work, right? Not only that don't cable recordings with the "copy once" flag, made on other devices/PCs, work the same too?
Isn't that exactly what a Kaleidescape is? It rips your discs and stores them while playing back the ripped copy.

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post #15 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:47 AM
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Oh well there you go I wasn't even aware of that device before, so I guess it has been done.
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post #16 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kjfalls View Post
The problem with ripping is most are not making copies of their media. They're making copies from RedBox and other rental sources, libraries and friends media. It hurts the industry and increases the price of recorded media for the consumer. It's even more despicable when they then upload the image to "cyber-lockers" and allow anyone to access and download the copy. The cyber-locker pays the uploader per copy and the site gets revenue by upcharging for better/faster transfer rates. The artist and replicator get nothing. Losses on popular movies could run into thousands if not millions.
I actually have no problem with making copies, but why does it have to be before or right after the street date?? Why not let the replicators and artists get their share? You can still rip it after its popularity drops. Most sales are during the first six weeks. I doubt replicators would even protect their content if they had a window of opportunity to recoup their investments.
So you are saying AnyDVD HD should only decrypt the disc once some date flag has been reached? And that date would need to vary depending on the country. I don't think that is going to happen.

Also, ripping would help many here. Most won't choose to then upload to a cyber-locker.

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All of these arguments are pointless, follow the money...

If you could legally, and effortlessly download an unadulterated copy of the movie you want for $1.99 (or something in that neighborhood), all of these shenanigans go away.

People will simply buy them.
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post #18 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh well there you go I wasn't even aware of that device before, so I guess it has been done.
So much for that patent you were getting ready to file.

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post #19 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 11:07 AM
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So you are saying AnyDVD HD should only decrypt the disc once some date flag has been reached? And that date would need to vary depending on the country. I don't think that is going to happen.
This is starting to smell like the DIVX platform which competed with DVD back in the beginning.

So that there is no confusion which DIVX I am talking about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX
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post #20 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Legal or not, if a DVD or Blu-Ray is being ripped by the owner of the purchased media and not being distributed illegally, it's a victimless crime and a completely unenforceable law. The only reason the law was ever put in place was to prevent illegal distribution of copyrighted intellectual material. From a user's viewpoint, it is perfectly legal because nobody is ever going to prosecute you for doing it. If the law isn't enforced, it's like it was never on the books to begin with. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of laws still in existence that are never enforced because nobody gives a crap about them anymore. It's just too much trouble for legislators to get rid of them so they essentially whither away and die from lack of interest.
I agree with this 100%.

However, in our new, ever-more-intrusive police/national-security state in which our masters are in secret watching almost literally every move we make, what happens after one of Them "just happens to notice" on your internet-connected HTPC that you are ripping a copyrighted disk? What happens to that "information"?

This may seem a bit paranoid or over the top, but my wife and I recently had a new, faster modem/router installed by our TV/ISP. A few days later we received a "copyright notice" falsely accusing us of downloading copyright material. A week later, the same thing. I had to go through a big hassle getting the ISP to acknowledge their mistake. Their database of IP addresses that automatically spits out these notices was not updated to reflect our new IP address. Our old modem's IP address must have been reassigned to the person's modem that did the downloading, but we got the two notices.

Anyway, my point is that if this had continued and the copyright holder had pressed charges, our home might under some circumstance have been entered by "authorities". If those persons had "just happened" to notice our collection of disks, well, who knows what might happen. Maybe nothing. But I got so paranoid that I considered getting rid of the disks, just to be on the safe side. We breathed a big sigh of relief what that matter was finally settled.

It's a new legal world out there, folks. Authorities who are desperate for operating revenue are seizing and fining like never before, at least around here. It's getting to the point that even innocent behavior can be seen as a threat to life or to society, "national security", etc. If They look at a person, a person's finances, or examine a person's home closely enough, They can find something for which They can "fine" you.

Tell me if I'm being too paranoid. Did I go out on a limb to even write this comment?
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post #21 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by bryansj View Post
True. However, just because the genie is out of the bottle doesn't mean the MPAA is going to make it legal. I don't really GAF either, but there are those here that believe this ripping is now legal in the US. Nothing has changed as it relates to ripping. This just renewed the previous fair use for another three years.
Its not up to the MPAA to 'make it legal' Thats up to the US congress.
MPAA can claim its illegal all day long, but that doesn't make it so.

DMCA does not (IMO) make copying dvds and blurays illegal, the right to copy content we own was granted in the last millennium under the fair use act.

And if anyone doesn't think we own the content we purchased, look at any TV commercial trying to get us to buy new movies "Own it today on DVD or Blu Ray"
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post #22 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
Its not up to the MPAA to 'make it legal' Thats up to the US congress.
MPAA can claim its illegal all day long, but that doesn't make it so.

DMCA does not (IMO) make copying dvds and blurays illegal, the right to copy content we own was granted in the last millennium under the fair use act.

And if anyone doesn't think we own the content we purchased, look at any TV commercial trying to get us to buy new movies "Own it today on DVD or Blu Ray"
The MPAA pays congress members what to think.
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post #23 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
Not to belittle this...but....who gives a flying **** anymore?

Music piracy stopped (for the most part) because you could buy a track for .99 instead of paying $10 for the whole CD. Make digital movies DRM free and priced at $1.99 and watch the crowds scramble to buy.

In the end, it's ALWAYS about money, and these morons have yet to acknowledge that their archaic model isn't working.
Lets not confuse the issue.... The so called 'piracy' is not happening in hometown USA, even though that is who the MPAA has chosen to attack. The piracy is the offshore entities that will crack the encryption, or worse, take a shaky handicam recording shot in a theater and blow out DVD+R copies, and sell them for $3-$5 each all over the world. The MPAA is trying to make up the money lost overseas to real pirates by attacking their legitimate customers in the US, the only place they have any influence through lobbying the lawmakers.

Digital movies, though NOT DRM free are already available to watch for around $1.99
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post #24 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by darknite9099 View Post
.

Digital movies, though NOT DRM free are already available to watch for around $1.99

Those are not first run movies, and that's a rental price. The industry has spent decades convincing the public they should "own" a movie, likely because they get a larger percentage over rentals. So they have created this mindset. Then they decided they still wanted control over the discs we "own".

One another note, I always find it amusing when the 99% feel they needed to defend the 1%'s right to add to their millions (not referring to the poster I quoted above), sometimes almost to the death.

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post #25 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Herve View Post
I agree with this 100%.

However, in our new, ever-more-intrusive police/national-security state in which our masters are in secret watching almost literally every move we make, what happens after one of Them "just happens to notice" on your internet-connected HTPC that you are ripping a copyrighted disk? What happens to that "information"?

This may seem a bit paranoid or over the top, but my wife and I recently had a new, faster modem/router installed by our TV/ISP. A few days later we received a "copyright notice" falsely accusing us of downloading copyright material. A week later, the same thing. I had to go through a big hassle getting the ISP to acknowledge their mistake. Their database of IP addresses that automatically spits out these notices was not updated to reflect our new IP address. Our old modem's IP address must have been reassigned to the person's modem that did the downloading, but we got the two notices.

Anyway, my point is that if this had continued and the copyright holder had pressed charges, our home might under some circumstance have been entered by "authorities". If those persons had "just happened" to notice our collection of disks, well, who knows what might happen. Maybe nothing. But I got so paranoid that I considered getting rid of the disks, just to be on the safe side. We breathed a big sigh of relief what that matter was finally settled.

It's a new legal world out there, folks. Authorities who are desperate for operating revenue are seizing and fining like never before, at least around here. It's getting to the point that even innocent behavior can be seen as a threat to life or to society, "national security", etc. If They look at a person, a person's finances, or examine a person's home closely enough, They can find something for which They can "fine" you.

Tell me if I'm being too paranoid. Did I go out on a limb to even write this comment?
There's a simple solution to this. If you're paranoid about your internet connection being monitored you should subscribe to a VPN (Virtual Private Network) service. Most of them only cost about $30 or so per year. You connect via a remote server so your PC is hidden from prying eyes. Check slickdeals.net or dealnews.com for advertised specials posted for VPN services. They offer discount deals all the time.
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post #26 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 12:47 PM
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@Herve I would hope your ISP didn't give your name & other personal info to the MPAA. On the other hand, I love a good lawsuit.
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post #27 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 12:51 PM
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Duplicate

Last edited by Lils Roro; 10-28-2015 at 12:51 PM. Reason: duplicate
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post #28 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
There's a simple solution to this. If you're paranoid about your internet connection being monitored you should subscribe to a VPN (Virtual Private Network) service. Most of them only cost about $30 or so per year. You connect via a remote server so your PC is hidden from prying eyes. Check slickdeals.net or dealnews.com for advertised specials posted for VPN services. They offer discount deals all the time.
Quite frankly, if that was all it took to be truly anonymous on the internet, doing that would probably be made "illegal". Governments hate privacy ...........unless it's its own, of course, in which case it loves it.

My proposition could be confirmed quite simply. Someone already using a VPN service should issue via internet a threat against The VIP of all VIPs. I just hope that that "someone" has enough time to report back here before their door gets busted in by "the authorities". (Do federal prisoners have the privilege of using the internet? If so, maybe that "someone' can still confirm or refute my proposition.)

This reminds me of another old saying. If voting could really change anything, voting would be illegal.

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Originally Posted by Lils Roro View Post
@Herve I would hope your ISP didn't give your name & other personal info to the MPAA. On the other hand, I love a good lawsuit.
I am told that our ISP did not do that. BTW, it is the copyright holder, not the MPAA, who would have been given that information by our ISP, but supposedly only after the holder had legally forced our ISP provider to do that by court order.

The theory behind / purpose of the copyright notices is that receipt of the notice alone will stop/scare its receiver from doing any more downloads, but in our case, since the downloader was not receiving the notices, it is quite possible that the downloader would have continued to download and we would have continued to receive the notices, and at some point the very famous copyright holder might very well have sought a legal remedy.

It is one thing to watch a lawsuit as a spectator. It is quite another to possibly be a participant -- a participant who does not want to spend a lot of time and money fighting a false accusation by a huge, very famous movie studio (whose name begins with a capital d).
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post #29 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 02:06 PM
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Lets not confuse the issue.... The so called 'piracy' is not happening in hometown USA, even though that is who the MPAA has chosen to attack. The piracy is the offshore entities that will crack the encryption, or worse, take a shaky handicam recording shot in a theater and blow out DVD+R copies, and sell them for $3-$5 each all over the world. The MPAA is trying to make up the money lost overseas to real pirates by attacking their legitimate customers in the US, the only place they have any influence through lobbying the lawmakers.

Digital movies, though NOT DRM free are already available to watch for around $1.99
One of the things that the United States has to understand (and I think it's seeping in, albeit real slow) is that...well..they are no longer the big dog. Take China for e.g.

Fiscally speaking, China is in a much better position than the US.
Politically speaking, it's no contest. US is a flustercuck.
Human rights wise...well, two out of 3 aint that bad, is it?

The average Joe in the US isn't a whole lot better off than the average Chinese. Yes, they may have bigger TVs, car(s) etc, but they are also in a lot more debt than the average Chinese citizen.

Where I'm going with this, is that the MPAA/whoever can "mandate" whatever the **** they want, no one outside the US gives a ****. In this flustercuck, who gets screwed is the average US consumer.

Hi, I'm an average US consumer.

p.s. I was talking about "buying" not viewing, not renting, not stored in the cloud, not..whatever. A full digital copy you can download, and it's yours to do what you want. as long as you don't ________ (the typical distribution stuff).
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post #30 of 65 Old 10-28-2015, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Herve View Post
Quite frankly, if that was all it took to be truly anonymous on the internet, doing that would probably be made "illegal". Governments hate privacy ...........unless it's its own, of course, in which case it loves it.

My proposition could be confirmed quite simply. Someone already using a VPN service should issue via internet a threat against The VIP of all VIPs. I just hope that that "someone" has enough time to report back here before their door gets busted in by "the authorities". (Do federal prisoners have the privilege of using the internet? If so, maybe that "someone' can still confirm or refute my proposition.)

This reminds me of another old saying. If voting could really change anything, voting would be illegal.

It is quite another to possibly be a participant -- a participant who does not want to spend a lot of time and money fighting a false accusation by a huge, very famous movie studio (whose name begins with a capital d).

I love your quote! It's too bad I'm just now reading it, my dad would have loved that.
Good luck with your proposition. It's one thing to get sued by Disney, and quite another to be labeled a terrorist! Especially just to prove a point.


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