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post #121 of 1108 Old 05-21-2018, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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How to Get Help

  • Take a Print Screen of the madVR OSD (Ctrl + J) during playback when the issue is present;
  • Post this screenshot along with a description of your issue in one of the two madVR-related threads in this forum.

Important Information:

  1. Detailed description of the issue;
  2. List of settings checked under general settings;
  3. GPU model (e.g., GTX 1060 6GB);
  4. Video driver version: Nvidia/AMD/Intel (e.g., 417.22);
  5. Operating system or Windows 10 Version Number (e.g., Windows 10 1809);
  6. Details of the video source (e.g., resolution; frame rate; video codec; file extension/format; interlacing).

Last edited by Onkyoman; 07-15-2019 at 06:21 AM.
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post #122 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You should leave your desktop at 60Hz and enable display mode switching in madVR. If you don't know how to do this, there is a set up manual in my signature.
Doesn't it make more sense to leave the desktop in 24HZ since most movies use that rate? This way the display doesn't have to re-sync/handshake...

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post #123 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ian_Currie View Post
Doesn't it make more sense to leave the desktop in 24HZ since most movies use that rate? This way the display doesn't have to re-sync/handshake...
You could do that, but everything besides video playback would be pretty laggy.
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post #124 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 08:48 AM
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Okay played around with the settings again and following are my observations.

Nvidia/GPU Setting
- I am unable to change resolution/Refresh rate in Nvidia control panel. Any resolution other than 3840x2160 @ 24/23Hz results in a black screen. Not sure if it's because of the JVC projector that's set to upscale to 4k or something else (see Nvidia_settings.png).
- Turning HDR in Windows 10 results in black screen as well.

MPC-HC
- Under the Output setting, if I select madVR for DirectShow Video it results in projector automatically switching to HDR mode but picture has a purple tint. If I select EVR, video goes back to normal but HDR tag is not passed so no auto switching is done by projector but manually switching works and picture looks great.
- Adding "eng" in LAV Splitter audio and Subtitles enabled the subtitles and they show up fine now.

MadVR
- It identifies the projector under devices correctly.
- HDR is set to passthrough with send HDR data selected (this works correctly as projector automatically switches to HDR mode)
- Direct3D 11 is selected under General Setting

At this point I'm just tempted to give up on madVR and just use what works but then there is the issue of unchangeable resolution/Refresh rate. Though, not sure if it is hurting anything. Attached are the screen capture of various settings and output.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Oh dear, there is still quite a bit to cover.

The fact your projector is not switching to HDR mode is still a problem. To confirm:

- You have disabled the Windows OS HDR switch;
- You have selected passthrough and send metadata to the display in madVR;
- You have selected the D3D11 presentation path in madVR general settings;
- madVR rendering stats (Ctrl + J) indicate "NV HDR" and the estimated peak nits of the source.

Another way to send the metadata is to leave all settings the same and enable the OS HDR switch in Windows to determine if the issue is the Nvidia API for automatic HDR switching.

- I assume you can select the subtitle track manually but it is not autoloading? You need to specify a default subtitle language in LAV Splitter (e.g. eng) and ensure the PGS subtitles checkbox is checked along with the correct subtitle selection mode. There may also be a setting in MPC-HC you are overlooking.

- After reinstalling your drivers, you have to rerun the Windows sound configuration wizard to match your surround sound configuration.

- You should be able to change the refresh rate of the desktop in the GPU control panel. If you can't do this, then your drivers are still not behaving properly. When playback starts, the display should change refresh rates and then return to the desktop resolution when it stops. Did you select the correct 3840 x 2160p resolution before changing refresh rates?

- 3D playback is completely unreliable and not properly supported because it is a dead format. You need to create a special profile rule in madVR for 3D content, like:

If (3D) "3D"
else "2D Profile"

Then you have to use the profile menu to add the following batch file, which will trigger 3D at playback start: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.p...le#post1828671.
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post #125 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
if I select madVR for DirectShow Video it results in projector automatically switching to HDR mode but picture has a purple tint.
Does your JVC has a setting for YCbCr vs RGB vs Auto input? If so, make sure you don't force it to YCbCr or RGB. Auto should be preferred. Also, is there an AVR between HTPC and JVC? If so, try a direct connection. Finally, try 8bit vs 12bit in the NVidia driver. I'm not sure if it's your GPU outputting pink or if it's your display interpreting the data incorrectly.
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post #126 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You could do that, but everything besides video playback would be pretty laggy.
I'm guessing that's true, but all I do with this PC is run KodiDSPlayer->madVR.

Thanks for the response.

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post #127 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
Okay played around with the settings again and following are my observations.

Nvidia/GPU Setting
- I am unable to change resolution/Refresh rate in Nvidia control panel. Any resolution other than 3840x2160 @ 24/23Hz results in a black screen. Not sure if it's because of the JVC projector that's set to upscale to 4k or something else (see Nvidia_settings.png).
- Turning HDR in Windows 10 results in black screen as well.

MPC-HC
- Under the Output setting, if I select madVR for DirectShow Video it results in projector automatically switching to HDR mode but picture has a purple tint. If I select EVR, video goes back to normal but HDR tag is not passed so no auto switching is done by projector but manually switching works and picture looks great.
- Adding "eng" in LAV Splitter audio and Subtitles enabled the subtitles and they show up fine now.

MadVR
- It identifies the projector under devices correctly.
- HDR is set to passthrough with send HDR data selected (this works correctly as projector automatically switches to HDR mode)
- Direct3D 11 is selected under General Setting

At this point I'm just tempted to give up on madVR and just use what works but then there is the issue of unchangeable resolution/Refresh rate. Though, not sure if it is hurting anything. Attached are the screen capture of various settings and output.
All your cables are uhd premium certified?
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post #128 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 11:16 AM
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All your cables are uhd premium certified?
I'm using this cable between Yamaha RX3070 AVR and projector. Between the HTPC and AVR, I have an older cable but I'm not sure how that would make a difference if things work without MadVR but don't when it's turned on.
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
I'm using this cable between Yamaha RX3070 AVR and projector. Between the HTPC and AVR, I have an older cable but I'm not sure how that would make a difference if things work without MadVR but don't when it's turned on.
That cable seem great but can you try with a certified cable from your pc to avr? Or try the pc directly to the projector if this is doable then if this change something then we know its the cable but if not i dont know.
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post #130 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ajamils View Post
I'm using this cable between Yamaha RX3070 AVR and projector. Between the HTPC and AVR, I have an older cable but I'm not sure how that would make a difference if things work without MadVR but don't when it's turned on.
You should try to get the bottom of your issue with HDR metadata because something is misbehaving. I would suggest disabling hardware decoding and determining if video decoding is the issue in addition to the other suggestions. But, as a projector owner, you might benefit from madVR's HDR -> SDR tone mapping. This will do the same tone mapping that HDR mode is doing but with more options for customization. And you won't need to send the HDR metadata to the projector. It will convert the HDR metadata to an SDR gamma. It is still HDR.

In its current state, the tone mapping is at least as good as most HDR displays and it is still being improved. So, your projector will stay the same but the tone mapping in madVR should improve as tone mapping techniques for HDR video are better understood. It does help that madshi is always gathering feedback from users and appears to have some friends who are also experts in this field, so things should continue to get better.

As for the issue with changing refresh rates, were you ever able to switch refresh rates before you bought this GPU? I wonder if a setting on your projector is preventing you from selecting another refresh rate. The selection of 24Hz is not a standard refresh rate in Windows. After a complete driver reinstall, the desktop should have booted into 60Hz and stayed there until you changed it. You tried every option and none would take? Maybe I'm wrong and it was 24Hz when you uninstalled the driver and simply stayed there.

You could open madVR and navigate to display modes. Choose the custom modes tab and see what is listed under there. It should show all of the same refresh rates as the GPU control panel. If something is missing, you could add it as a custom refresh rate.

Also, try playing some content that is not 23.976Hz and see if the GPU is capable of changing refresh rates via the media player. You would first have to enter the desired display modes in madVR's display modes for the chosen video. If it changes, the GPU control panel is the problem.
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post #131 of 1108 Old 05-22-2018, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You should try to get the bottom of your issue with HDR metadata because something is misbehaving. I would suggest disabling hardware decoding and determining if video decoding is the issue in addition to the other suggestions. But, as a projector owner, you might benefit from madVR's HDR -> SDR tone mapping. This will do the same tone mapping that HDR mode is doing but with more options for customization. And you won't need to send the HDR metadata to the projector. It will convert the HDR metadata to an SDR gamma. It is still HDR.

In its current state, the tone mapping is at least as good as most HDR displays and it is still being improved. So, your projector will stay the same but the tone mapping in madVR should improve as tone mapping techniques for HDR video are better understood. It does help that madshi is always gathering feedback from users and appears to have some friends who are also experts in this field, so things should continue to get better.

As for the issue with changing refresh rates, were you ever able to switch refresh rates before you bought this GPU? I wonder if a setting on your projector is preventing you from selecting another refresh rate. The selection of 24Hz is not a standard refresh rate in Windows. After a complete driver reinstall, the desktop should have booted into 60Hz and stayed there until you changed it. You tried every option and none would take? Maybe I'm wrong and it was 24Hz when you uninstalled the driver and simply stayed there.

You could open madVR and navigate to display modes. Choose the custom modes tab and see what is listed under there. It should show all of the same refresh rates as the GPU control panel. If something is missing, you could add it as a custom refresh rate.

Also, try playing some content that is not 23.976Hz and see if the GPU is capable of changing refresh rates via the media player. You would first have to enter the desired display modes in madVR's display modes for the chosen video. If it changes, the GPU control panel is the problem.
So I spent couple of hours trying out different things and finally got MadVr to play nicely.

First I tried turning hardware decoding off, it did not fix the issue but made everything crawl. Next I tried different HDR setting and finally "dumb" tone mapping(see attachment) made everything work. Projector does not switch to HDR mode since SDR is being sent to it and turning that mode manually on results in very contrasty colors (almost cartoonish)

I was also able to change display settings under Windows to 1080p/60 and added additional display settings under MadVr do now it switches to 4k/24 when player is maximized and goes back to you 1080p when player is exited.

Somewhere along my testing I somehow lost Atmos sound and whenever I played a movie with Atmos I got an error that decoder cannot be found. So I cleaned my display drivers again using DDU utility and reinstalled just display and audio driver which brought "Atmos for Home Theater" back to life.

So now that the basics are covered, are there any setting that I can play with to improve picture quality?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
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post #132 of 1108 Old 05-23-2018, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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So I spent couple of hours trying out different things and finally got MadVr to play nicely.

First I tried turning hardware decoding off, it did not fix the issue but made everything crawl. Next I tried different HDR setting and finally "dumb" tone mapping(see attachment) made everything work. Projector does not switch to HDR mode since SDR is being sent to it and turning that mode manually on results in very contrasty colors (almost cartoonish)

I was also able to change display settings under Windows to 1080p/60 and added additional display settings under MadVr do now it switches to 4k/24 when player is maximized and goes back to you 1080p when player is exited.

Somewhere along my testing I somehow lost Atmos sound and whenever I played a movie with Atmos I got an error that decoder cannot be found. So I cleaned my display drivers again using DDU utility and reinstalled just display and audio driver which brought "Atmos for Home Theater" back to life.

So now that the basics are covered, are there any setting that I can play with to improve picture quality?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
It sounds like you are mostly there. You need to customize the HDR -> SDR tone mapping a bit.

target peak nits: This is the target of the tone mapping curve. If you select 400 nits, for example, the default tone mapping curve will attempt to fit a 1,000 nit container into a 400 nit container. If your display is actually 100 nits, then the bottom end will be compressed and the overall image will be darker. If you select a lower target nits (e.g. 200 nits), there is less room in the top end for the highlights, so the top end is compressed more than the lower end. So the image is brighter at lower nits values as the top end receives the most compression. The image then gets darker with higher nits values and brighter with lower nits values. You have to find a balance between highlight preservation (higher nits) and the overall brightness/darkness of the image (lower nits).

tone mapping curve: Leave it at the default BT.2390. Tone mapping is about adjusting for large changes in dynamic range, so it is mostly focused on luminance reduction. A tone mapping algorithm will usually increase the saturation of the image by removing luminance or make it pale, depending on the algorithm. BT.2390 seems to trend more towards saturation.

gamut mapping algorithm: This is a color correction pass. To adjust the oversaturated look of tone mapping, gamut mapping is used to tame any extreme pixels. Gamut mapping is different than tone mapping because it isn't designed to deal with large dynamic range changes like tone mapping. It adjusts both luminance and saturation, so the adjustments are more subtle. You should experiment with all of the algorithms to find something you like. The dumb algorithms involve some hue shifts, while the scientific algorithms are about hue preservation. Neither algorithm has been tuned to perfection, so there are still tradeoffs, either way. This is mostly focused on the brightest highlights, but many pixels can undergo adjustment depending on the scene.

fix too bright & saturated pixels by: When using scientific gamut mapping, this adjusts the amount of luminance and saturation reduction. You can't have a perfect balance of both, so there has to be some compromise. You can leave it at the default or experiment to get the highlights looking the way you want. Again, this only refers to scientific gamut mapping.

measure each frame's peak luminance: I'm not sure if this is working yet, but the plan is to have the tone mapping curve adjust to each frame by measuring the peak nits, similar to HDR10+ or Dolby Vision standards. This should lead to brightness adjustments throughout the video rather than relying on a global value.

restore details in compressed highlights: When highlights are compressed to a lower luminance, they lose some detail or pop. This setting sharpens the compressed highlights to make them stand out more. I would recommend checking this. The effect is only subtle.
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post #133 of 1108 Old 05-23-2018, 12:21 PM
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It sounds like you are mostly there. You need to customize the HDR -> SDR tone mapping a bit.

target peak nits: This is the target of the tone mapping curve. If you select 400 nits, for example, the default tone mapping curve will attempt to fit a 1,000 nit container into a 400 nit container. If your display is actually 100 nits, then the bottom end will be compressed and the overall image will be darker. If you select a lower target nits (e.g. 200 nits), there is less room in the top end for the highlights, so the top end is compressed more than the lower end. So the image is brighter at lower nits values as the top end receives the most compression. The image then gets darker with higher nits values and brighter with lower nits values. You have to find a balance between highlight preservation (higher nits) and the overall brightness/darkness of the image (lower nits).

tone mapping curve: Leave it at the default BT.2390. Tone mapping is about adjusting for large changes in dynamic range, so it is mostly focused on luminance reduction. A tone mapping algorithm will usually increase the saturation of the image by removing luminance or make it pale, depending on the algorithm. BT.2390 seems to trend more towards saturation.

gamut mapping algorithm: This is a color correction pass. To adjust the oversaturated look of tone mapping, gamut mapping is used to tame any extreme pixels. Gamut mapping is different than tone mapping because it isn't designed to deal with large dynamic range changes like tone mapping. It adjusts both luminance and saturation, so the adjustments are more subtle. You should experiment with all of the algorithms to find something you like. The dumb algorithms involve some hue shifts, while the scientific algorithms are about hue preservation. Neither algorithm has been tuned to perfection, so there are still tradeoffs, either way. This is mostly focused on the brightest highlights, but many pixels can undergo adjustment depending on the scene.

fix too bright & saturated pixels by: When using scientific gamut mapping, this adjusts the amount of luminance and saturation reduction. You can't have a perfect balance of both, so there has to be some compromise. You can leave it at the default or experiment to get the highlights looking the way you want. Again, this only refers to scientific gamut mapping.

measure each frame's peak luminance: I'm not sure if this is working yet, but the plan is to have the tone mapping curve adjust to each frame by measuring the peak nits, similar to HDR10+ or Dolby Vision standards. This should lead to brightness adjustments throughout the video rather than relying on a global value.

restore details in compressed highlights: When highlights are compressed to a lower luminance, they lose some detail or pop. This setting sharpens the compressed highlights to make them stand out more. I would recommend checking this. The effect is only subtle.
Thank you for the details. I played around with the above settings and here is my conclusion and follow up questions

- Target Nits: How can I can I find out what would the target be for my display? I tried higher and lower setting and 150 seems to give a good balance for darkness and highlights

gamut mapping algorithm:Other than the Dumb algorithm the simple scientific one works as well but I am unable to see any difference. Complex scientific algorithm create shuttering and everything is in slow motion.

Which particular one do you suggest?

fix too bright & saturated pixels by: Tried different settings but don't see much difference. Maybe it depends on the specific scene to notice difference.

As you mentioned, color saturation is definitely on the high side but I countered it by lowering it in the projector setting. The only issue is that it seems to jump all over the place. For example, in some scenes (specially with a lot of greenery) look over saturated while others look fine. On the other hand, Black Panther looks saturated throughout the movie and dark scenes are quite bit dark. Also, the lack of sharpness is also noticeable in different scenes but that maybe just the way movie is encoded. Also, the noise seem to more visible. I tried enabling NR but everything started shuttering so I turned it off.

On the other hand, something else is going on with resolution setting because not it's back to 4K again and changes do not stick. If I change it, it takes some time for projector to show the picture and in the meanwhile the changes are reverted back. If I change it in Nvidia Control panel, it does work for some time and then it goes back

Also tried MPC-BE which seem to play everything out of the box but it neither pass Atmos or does HDR so it's a no go otherwise it would have been a good alternative.
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post #134 of 1108 Old 05-23-2018, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the details. I played around with the above settings and here is my conclusion and follow up questions

- Target Nits: How can I can I find out what would the target be for my display? I tried higher and lower setting and 150 seems to give a good balance for darkness and highlights

gamut mapping algorithm:Other than the Dumb algorithm the simple scientific one works as well but I am unable to see any difference. Complex scientific algorithm create shuttering and everything is in slow motion.

Which particular one do you suggest?

fix too bright & saturated pixels by: Tried different settings but don't see much difference. Maybe it depends on the specific scene to notice difference.

As you mentioned, color saturation is definitely on the high side but I countered it by lowering it in the projector setting. The only issue is that it seems to jump all over the place. For example, in some scenes (specially with a lot of greenery) look over saturated while others look fine. On the other hand, Black Panther looks saturated throughout the movie and dark scenes are quite bit dark. Also, the lack of sharpness is also noticeable in different scenes but that maybe just the way movie is encoded. Also, the noise seem to more visible. I tried enabling NR but everything started shuttering so I turned it off.

On the other hand, something else is going on with resolution setting because not it's back to 4K again and changes do not stick. If I change it, it takes some time for projector to show the picture and in the meanwhile the changes are reverted back. If I change it in Nvidia Control panel, it does work for some time and then it goes back

Also tried MPC-BE which seem to play everything out of the box but it neither pass Atmos or does HDR so it's a no go otherwise it would have been a good alternative.
I forgot to mention you have to set your projector's SDR calibration under calibration. This includes the gamut (BT.709 or BT.2020) and the estimated gamma. Things might not look right if you don't do this.

- The target nits setting is not scientific, so it is more a matter of preference. You don't want to focus on the peak luminance of your projector, especially if it has a really low peak nits, as you need to leave some room for tone mapping. There will always be large compromise in tone mapping with a display as dim as a projector.

- I would start with Complex Scientific - RGB Clip, but many seem to be happy with Dumb - Convert Gamut Late. To notice a difference, you need to find something like a really bright yellow or red highlight and pause the media player. Switch algorithms and the highlight will change color. There is a good chance your projector's HDR mode uses something similar to Dumb mode. If you can't notice a difference, then it is not an important selection. If Complex Scientific is shuttering, some type of weird bug is taking place.

The differences in saturation more likely to come down to HDR grading techniques than tone mapping, but the combination of the two could be a factor. In the future, you may have more tone mapping curves to play with and optimized tone mapping curves for different scenes. It is what it is in the current state. It's probably pretty close to your projector's HDR mode. The last JVC owner I spoke to couldn't detect any difference from his projector's HDR mode and madVR's HDR -> SDR tone mapping.

There is also MPV if you want a different perspective. It uses a tone mapping algorithm designed for digital photography (Reinhard) and one designed for video games (Hable), and one that is an optimized version of the first. It also offers the ability to choose which pixels are displayed 1:1 and those that are tone mapped. By comparison, madVR tries to leave 0 to 100 nits pixels untouched at its defaults. MPV also has a feature to highlight pixels that are out of gamut. I don't know if this is because the tone mapping algorithms do some clipping or if the user parameters can be set such that adequate correction is not applied and these highlights are a warning pixels are being clipped. MPV is difficult to configure, so I don't know if you want to go down this route. And the screenshots I've seen make madVR look better, but it does things differently.

madshi is looking for feedback on tone mapping in this thread. I think the current discussion is still about gamut mapping, but tone mapping curves will be covered in the future. You might find you like a tone mapping curve in MPV that you could suggest to madshi. VLC's recent major update stole the code for tone mapping from MPV. Kodi also offers HDR -> SDR conversion, but it's pretty bad.

I don't know what to tell you about the resolution problems with your projector. It may not be capable of 4K 60Hz due to the required HDMI specs, the cables you are using or some setting in the projector. Why it is jumping from refresh rate to refresh rate, I don't know. Maybe your cable run is long enough you need to invest in fibre optic HDMI cables? Having many kinks in cheaper cables can also be an issue.

Lastly, here are some settings that may work with a GTX 1050 (I'm guessing).

As mentioned before, set the CPU, GPU and Present Queues to a low value. madVR wants to use more than 2GB of VRAM at 4K 24 fps, so you will be barely scraping by. It relies on expensive math, so a lot has to be stored in VRAM before rendering. 4GB of VRAM is a safe amount for 4K 60 fps without concessions.

2160p:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low to medium)
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Jinc + AR
  • Image doubling: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: Off
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Ordered Dithering

1080p:
  • Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low) or Bicubic60 + AR
  • Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
  • Image upscaling: Off
  • Image doubling: NGU Sharp
  • <-- Luma doubling: medium to high
  • <-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp)
  • <-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
  • <-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
  • <-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
  • <-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
  • Upscaling refinement: soften edges (1)
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
  • Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Ordered Dithering

Oh, and MPC-BE. You need to select madVR as the renderer and enable passthrough of TrueHD and DTS-HD in the filters configuration. All madVR supported media players will perform pretty identical, so MPC-BE is an option.

I'm thinking the stuttering with Complex Scientific gamut mapping may be your GPU running out of VRAM.

I have to go to class, so I guess that will end the correspondence for today.
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post #135 of 1108 Old 06-19-2018, 07:26 AM
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Does Madvr support hd hlg ??
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post #136 of 1108 Old 06-19-2018, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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No, not yet. I can't tell you if or when it will be added, only that madshi is aware of this request.
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post #137 of 1108 Old 06-20-2018, 08:04 PM
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this sounds like super sampling.

jinc and doubling is not available at the same time on the newest version
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post #138 of 1108 Old 06-21-2018, 05:16 AM
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the scaler you are talking about are for correction upscaling only.

if you double the image you have to double the chroma too. NGU is only used on luma and a lower version of it or bicubic i is used for chroma.
for best results it should be the same scaler so if you use NGU sharp for luma it will use NGU sharp or bicubic for chroma.
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Hi all just after some info regarding madvr and 4k hdr

is there a way of bypassing all video processing and just play the video in the rawist form possible ?, cos surely 4k video don't need any enhancements its already a very high resolution and bitrate ?? and if I switch between bilinear and super-xbr I don't see any improvement other than the present time get higher ??


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post #140 of 1108 Old 06-21-2018, 11:58 AM
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madVR does this by default.
you have to upscale chroma HDMI doesn't 4:2:0 at 23 hz and PC are not fan of everything that is not RGB.
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post #141 of 1108 Old 06-29-2018, 01:28 AM
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1. What is the differebce between HDR to SDR convert and native HDR ? It looks more vivid than native HDR. How about color fidelity ?



2. I have hdr monitor. Which one is correct configuration? I have 2 HDR movie. One of them mastered at 4000nit and other one 1000nit. My display has peak 600nit

Passthrough hdr content to the display

Passthrough hdr content to the display + send hdr metadata to the display (AMD HDR)(Gpu: RX Vega 64 LC)

Windows HDR and WCG enabled (OS HDR)

Process HDR content by using pixel shader math

Process hdr content by using an external 3dlut


3. My display calibrated with colormunki + displaycal software. 3d lut installed to madvr but i dont know how to use it with HDR content. What should i do for HDR calibration ?


4. Should i disable gpu gamma ramps for my calibration?

Can anybody help please
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post #142 of 1108 Old 06-29-2018, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by displ View Post
1. What is the differebce between HDR to SDR convert and native HDR ? It looks more vivid than native HDR. How about color fidelity ?
The HDR -> SDR conversion requires manual calibration to match HDR passthrough. It is converting HDR to match the SDR mode of your display. You would have to set the brightness of your display's SDR mode to match its HDR mode and find a target nits value that produces a similar result to HDR passthrough. Because of your 3D LUT, the color gamut would also be downconverted from BT.2020 to BT.709.

Quote:
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2. I have hdr monitor. Which one is correct configuration? I have 2 HDR movie. One of them mastered at 4000nit and other one 1000nit. My display has peak 600nit
"Passthrough hdr content to the display"

This makes the most sense as you will have a different calibration for SDR and HDR. So use your display's native HDR mode. This is almost always the correct setting with a true HDR display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by displ View Post
3. My display calibrated with colormunki + displaycal software. 3d lut installed to madvr but i dont know how to use it with HDR content. What should i do for HDR calibration ?
You need to create a seperate 3D LUT for HDR content, sometimes more than one 3D LUT for content mastered with a different peak brightness. The color volume of HDR content is completely different than SDR. That is why there is a separate HDR mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by displ View Post
4. Should i disable gpu gamma ramps for my calibration?
You should disable this if you are using a 3D LUT.
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post #143 of 1108 Old 06-29-2018, 09:29 AM
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the gamma ramp option can be ignored with a 3d LUT the 3d LUT has information if it was used while calibration or not and depending on this it will force it on or off and is ignoring this setting.
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post #144 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 06:29 AM
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Im confused lol. Should i disable gpu gamma ramps or not

There is no clear info about these things. It needs some guides for the newbies including calibration process with displaycal.



My monitor: Samsung CHG70 (600 peak brightness, 8 dimming zones, quantum dot va monitor). I have calibrated icc profile and i created BT709 3dlut + BT2020 hdr to sdr 3dlut(400nits) + BT2020 hdr 3dlut(600nits) from that icc profile.


My options are:




Passthrough HDR content to the display: This option not working. Monitor stays in sdr mode

Im assuming this mode allows monitor itself to decode HDR content.



Passthrough HDR content to the display with send HDR metadata to the display: This one works. Info tab says AMD HDR

Im assuming this mode sends data to the AMD gpu and gpu tone mapping content for the display.



Convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math: Target peak nits 400 (chg70 native sdr nits)

Should i choose ''restore details in compressed highlights'' option too ?



Convert HDR content to SDR by using an external 3DLUT: I created BT2020 HDR to SDR 3dlut from my icc profile

Pixel shader math vs external 3dlut ? pros cons ?


Process HDR content by using pixel shader math: Peak nits 600 (chg70 native HDR peak nits)

Target gamut: dci-p3 what is that mean ? I cant switch this. Peak nits should be 600 right ? What about other options ?



Process HDR content by using an external 3DLUT: I created BT2020 HDR 3dlut from my icc profile

Again it says dci-p3 and there is peak nits setting.



Last option is windows 10 hdr and wcg enabled: This one always forces OS HDR with madvr


I guess this time windows itself doing tonemapping instead of monitor or gpu.


So which one is best for my case ? Should i create dci-p3 3dlut too or BT2020 can do same job ? Which peak nits settings should i choose ?
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post #145 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't worry about converting HDR to SDR. You would have to live with watching both SDR and HDR with the same settings with the same gamut. HDR should always be much brighter if your display is able to tailor its output for this content. You really like madVR's tone mapping is the only scenario where using this setting would make sense. But it would come with some compromises.

I would try both passthrough and the 3D LUT and see which one you prefer. There is more info on these options in the link in my signature.

For the HDR 3D LUT, I assume you need to enter the gamut and the peak nits measured by the 3D LUT. I don't know how things will go if you used an icc profile. Not too knowledgeable about that.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 06-30-2018 at 04:32 PM.
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post #146 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 11:36 AM
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SDR 3d LUT can be create for BT 2020 or ever other colorspace.

creating a 3D LUT in native mode to do the gamut mapping is recommended anyway.
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post #147 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 01:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
SDR 3d LUT can be create for BT 2020 or ever other colorspace.

creating a 3D LUT in native mode to do the gamut mapping is recommended anyway.
That would make HDR -> SDR conversion more of an option. It depends on how bright he intends to calibrate SDR mode. You would still lose some of the brightness that the TV is capable of. I doubt it is hitting 600 nits unless this was measured with a colorimeter after calibration.
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post #148 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 01:24 PM
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depends on the TV.

it's not rare that TV have the same or very similar brightness in SDR as in HDR.
not sure how someone survives SDR at 600+ nits but well...

you can even use the 3d LUT to lower the brightness but this has lot'S of problem and is clearly a bad idea for none emissive displays.
even my old TV reaches 575 nits 100 % white test pattern that'S more than most HDR displays are capable of.
the real trick is double wiring and the use of 2 3D LUTs. you can now just switch between HDR and SDR mode by switching the channel.

just as a fun fact projectors didn't even reach 100 nit so the SDR profile is not far away from a projector.
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post #149 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I never heard of double wiring before. How does it work? Are you switching between 3D LUTs with a remote?

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post #150 of 1108 Old 06-30-2018, 02:47 PM - Thread Starter
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It probably should have been stated to someone trying to achieve an accurate calibration that he should shoot for an SDR calibration of BT.709 at 100-200 nits.

HDR calibration is about finding the highest brightness with the fewest color errors across the grayscale at BT.2020/DCI-P3. This isn’t always possible at the highest backlight setting of the display. Dialing it down a bit can often produce a better grayscale with only a small loss in brightness.

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