Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 110 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3271 of 3386 Old 08-13-2019, 07:27 AM
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Going to build my HTPC this week. this will only be for movies nothing else.

So far i am going to get:

i5 9400 9th gen
Intel H310
8GB Ram
240 SSD for windows+jriver (movies will be on external hd)
case has already a 450w power supply
jriver with madvr

now for the GPU

2060 8GB vs 2070 8GB vs 2080 8GB? i can also stretch to the 2080 Ti 11GB if needed.

I mainly want this for 1080p rips(remux) to 4k upscaling. Would i gain noticeable improvements going from the first card to next? please do let me know. what level or detail/settings can i expect to achieve for each? thanks in advance.

I want it to have high or better NGU options and also HDR tone mapping if possible. so 1080p to 4k has to be very high quality.

Screen is 160'' diagonal , PJ will be the Epson 5050 which is a 1080 PJ but has upscale to 4096 x 2160 pixels.

Processor Marantz AV8805 Amps Crown DCI/N x2 CT8150 x1 Speakers JBL PRO M2 x3 708i x4 328c x6 Subs SVS SB16 x2 Screen SI 160 Slate AT 1.2 Projector Crappy Epson TW5600 Media Steiger Dynamics Ikon Cables&Chords Wireworld & Belden Acoustic Foam Pro Acoustic

Last edited by Balbolito; 08-13-2019 at 07:35 AM.
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post #3272 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 02:37 PM
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Can anyone comment on the quality difference between ripped 1080p upscaled to 4k with madvr and a ripped 4k uhd disc? I am purchasing my first 4k tv and will upgrade the graphics card of my pc. Question is whether I will purchase a friendly drive and go through the trouble of downloading the hash keys, etc which to me appears to be a bit complicated. I am a fan of classic films and I can count on my 2 hands the titles that are available in uhd that I would purchase - but they are some of my favorites: 2001, Apocalypse Now (to be released next week) Alien, - many thanks
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post #3273 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerall View Post
Can anyone comment on the quality difference between ripped 1080p upscaled to 4k with madvr and a ripped 4k uhd disc? I am purchasing my first 4k tv and will upgrade the graphics card of my pc. Question is whether I will purchase a friendly drive and go through the trouble of downloading the hash keys, etc which to me appears to be a bit complicated. I am a fan of classic films and I can count on my 2 hands the titles that are available in uhd that I would purchase - but they are some of my favorites: 2001, Apocalypse Now (to be released next week) Alien, - many thanks
Depends on the TV you buy. If you spend some money on one that does HDR well then the UHD rips will be worth it. Honestly for me especially on older movies, with my budget 4k tv, I don't see much difference between a standard blu ray ripped to the 4k version. This in anecdotal as I am not even comparing side by side.

This is without using madvr.

Also in regards to madvr. Its upscaling is good, but don't expect some amazing improvement upscaling 1080p to 4k. Thats just my opinion. Tone mapping is where you get the most benefit from madvr.
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post #3274 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Depends on the TV you buy. If you spend some money on one that does HDR well then the UHD rips will be worth it. Honestly for me especially on older movies, with my budget 4k tv, I don't see much difference between a standard blu ray ripped to the 4k version. This in anecdotal as I am not even comparing side by side.

This is without using madvr.

Also in regards to madvr. Its upscaling is good, but don't expect some amazing improvement upscaling 1080p to 4k. Thats just my opinion. Tone mapping is where you get the most benefit from madvr.

What exactly is tone mapping and what does it do please ?
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post #3275 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ng4ever View Post
What exactly is tone mapping and what does it do please ?
I would go to the great guide the OP wrote and search for that term, lots of info there.
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188
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post #3276 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
I would go to the great guide the OP wrote and search for that term, lots of info there.
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

Thank you!
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post #3277 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerall View Post
Can anyone comment on the quality difference between ripped 1080p upscaled to 4k with madvr and a ripped 4k uhd disc? I am purchasing my first 4k tv and will upgrade the graphics card of my pc. I am a fan of classic films and I can count on my 2 hands the titles that are available in uhd that I would purchase - but they are some of my favorites: 2001, Apocalypse Now (to be released next week) Alien, - many thanks
As Whiteboy mentioned, HDR is the bigger differentiator between 1080p and 4K UHD content than resolution. If you choose to use NGU Sharp in madVR, the difference in sharpness between upscaled 1080p and native 4K UHD videos is certainly comparable.

HDR movies add greater brightness. If you want to benefit from that, you need a TV that has full array local dimming and as much peak brightness as possible (preferably, 500-1,000+ nits), or an OLED, which is currently the best way to watch HDR content amongst today's TVs.

There is some more information on HDR video technology found in these links:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&page=11

This article, in particular, explains what HDR video is about:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...dynamic-range/

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerall View Post
Question is whether I will purchase a friendly drive and go through the trouble of downloading the hash keys, etc which to me appears to be a bit complicated.
The hashed key file is now downloaded automatically by MakeMKV via an Internet connection. The bigger issue is finding a suitable drive. You can either buy an official LG UHD drive (recommended) and hook it up to an old motherboard with an IDE mode for the SATA ports. You then flash it back to older firmware with the app mentioned in the video link in the first post. Or you can buy a pre-flashed drive that already has factory firmware from the seller also linked in the first post.
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post #3278 of 3386 Old 08-14-2019, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
As Whiteboy mentioned, HDR is the bigger differentiator between 1080p and 4K UHD content than resolution. If you choose to use NGU Sharp in madVR, the difference in sharpness between upscaled 1080p and native 4K UHD videos is certainly comparable.

HDR movies add greater brightness. If you want to benefit from that, you need a TV that has full array local dimming and as much peak brightness as possible (preferably, 500-1,000+ nits), or an OLED, which is currently the best way to watch HDR content amongst today's TVs.

There is some more information on HDR video technology found in these links:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&page=11

This article, in particular, explains what HDR video is about:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...dynamic-range/



The hashed key file is now downloaded automatically by MakeMKV via an Internet connection. The bigger issue is finding a suitable drive. You can either buy an official LG UHD drive (recommended) and hook it up to an old motherboard with an IDE mode for the SATA ports. You then flash it back to older firmware with the app mentioned in the video link in the first post. Or you can buy a pre-flashed drive that already has factory firmware from the seller also linked in the first post.



Cool. That helped a lot!
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post #3279 of 3386 Old 08-15-2019, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
As Whiteboy mentioned, HDR is the bigger differentiator between 1080p and 4K UHD content than resolution. If you choose to use NGU Sharp in madVR, the difference in sharpness between upscaled 1080p and native 4K UHD videos is certainly comparable.

HDR movies add greater brightness. If you want to benefit from that, you need a TV that has full array local dimming and as much peak brightness as possible (preferably, 500-1,000+ nits), or an OLED, which is currently the best way to watch HDR content amongst today's TVs.

There is some more information on HDR video technology found in these links:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&page=11

This article, in particular, explains what HDR video is about:

https://hometheaterhifi.com/technica...dynamic-range/



The hashed key file is now downloaded automatically by MakeMKV via an Internet connection. The bigger issue is finding a suitable drive. You can either buy an official LG UHD drive (recommended) and hook it up to an old motherboard with an IDE mode for the SATA ports. You then flash it back to older firmware with the app mentioned in the video link in the first post. Or you can buy a pre-flashed drive that already has factory firmware from the seller also linked in the first post.
Thank you -great info. So in addition to the drive I need a suitable video card, correct? I read the first page but any specific recommendations would be welcome. I install drive and video card rip to mkv and I'm good to play the rip? Can I use madvr with the default settings and if not how involved is the tinkering?
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post #3280 of 3386 Old 08-15-2019, 09:39 AM
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Exclamation

Could you help me out?

I'm trying to use MadmeasureHDR Dynamic Optimizer and I keep getting this error when I try to start a measurement - see attachment.


I'm kind of lost on all the different items you need to have downloaded and where everything goes, so I'm probably missing something...


I have MadVR v0.92.17 installed.
I have LAV filters installed (downloaded and installed the combo 32bit and 64bit package).
I use mpc-be for playback and it runs everything fine.
I downloaded MadmeasureHDR Dynamic Optimizer 4.0.0 (extracted to its own folder).
Within MadmeasureHDR Dynamic Optimizer I pointed it to the correct folder where MadVR was installed.
I've tried several different mkv files all with the same error message.

Is there some other file(s) I need to have installed? Do I need to extract something into a certain place with something else?


I've never used MadVR to measure a file before, am I doing things completely wrong somewhere?

System.ComponentModel.Win32Exception (0x80004005): The system cannot find the file specified
What is this error pointing out to me?



It's really frustrating.



Here is the complete error message within the little box that popped up:

See the end of this message for details on invoking
just-in-time (JIT) debugging instead of this dialog box.

************** Exception Text **************
System.ComponentModel.Win32Exception (0x80004005): The system cannot find the file specified
at System.Diagnostics.Process.StartWithCreateProcess( ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
at System.Diagnostics.Process.Start(ProcessStartInfo startInfo)
at madMeasureDynamicClipping.FrmMain.MadMeasureHDR(St ring file)
at madMeasureDynamicClipping.FrmMain.StartAnalysis()
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventAr gs mevent)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


************** Loaded Assemblies **************
mscorlib
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3815.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework64/v4.0.30319/mscorlib.dll
----------------------------------------
madMeasureHDRDynamicOptimizer
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.0.0.0
CodeBase: file:///C:/Users/David/AppData/Local/Apps/2.0/WKJO0GY1.V0N/3L1177X4.Z2R/madm..tion_9e4aaf119d852000_0004.0000_0f5b04144e5b af71/madMeasureHDRDynamicOptimizer.exe
----------------------------------------
Microsoft.VisualBasic
Assembly Version: 10.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 14.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Microsoft.VisualBasic/v4.0_10.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
----------------------------------------
System
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3801.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_B
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Core
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3815.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Core/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Core.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Windows.Forms
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3815.0 built by: NET48REL1LAST_C
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Windows.Forms/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Windows.Forms.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Drawing
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Drawing/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Drawing.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Configuration
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Configuration/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Configuration.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Xml
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Xml/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Xml.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Runtime.Remoting
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Runtime.Remoting/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b77a5c561934e089/System.Runtime.Remoting.dll
----------------------------------------
Accessibility
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/Accessibility/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/Accessibility.dll
----------------------------------------
System.Deployment
Assembly Version: 4.0.0.0
Win32 Version: 4.8.3752.0 built by: NET48REL1
CodeBase: file:///C:/WINDOWS/Microsoft.Net/assembly/GAC_MSIL/System.Deployment/v4.0_4.0.0.0__b03f5f7f11d50a3a/System.Deployment.dll
----------------------------------------

************** JIT Debugging **************
To enable just-in-time (JIT) debugging, the .config file for this
application or computer (machine.config) must have the
jitDebugging value set in the system.windows.forms section.
The application must also be compiled with debugging
enabled.

For example:

<configuration>
<system.windows.forms jitDebugging="true" />
</configuration>

When JIT debugging is enabled, any unhandled exception
will be sent to the JIT debugger registered on the computer
rather than be handled by this dialog box.


THANKS!
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--------------------------------------------------
Source: HTPC w/madVR, Video: Epson 5040, 150" 16:9, Audio: Onkyo RZ 830 avr, 5.1.4 Atmos setup. 5 speaker Energy C Series: L/R C300's, C C-C100, SR/SL C50's, 4 in-ceiling Micca R-8c. Subwoofer: MiniMarty um18 w/NX3000D.
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post #3281 of 3386 Old 08-15-2019, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerall View Post
Thank you -great info. So in addition to the drive I need a suitable video card, correct? I read the first page but any specific recommendations would be welcome. I install drive and video card rip to mkv and I'm good to play the rip? Can I use madvr with the default settings and if not how involved is the tinkering?
You don't need a video card to rip an UHD disc. The read speed of drive alone determines how fast the disc will rip.

If you plan to buy an off-the-shelf drive and flash it, ensure the motherboard you are using has an IDE mode for the SATA ports. I don't think this is that common.

You can use madVR with its default settings if you don't have an overly powerful video card. It can be just as easy to follow the settings recommendations from the madVR guide found at the top of the first post. The last section in the guide has some profiles that are better than the default settings.

You can tinker as much as you wish. The settings profiles mentioned should give you a good picture to start with.
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post #3282 of 3386 Old 08-16-2019, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Black Hawk Down was completely remastered for the 4K UHD version. In your 220 nits shot, there is still a roll-off of the image if you only getting ~40 nits at the screen, but the image doesn't look too bad. It is a darker movie, in general.



The no compression limit basically disables tone mapping of any scenes within this limit. The range is up to preference. But the current dynamic target nits formula also uses the no compression limit as the baseline offset to calculate every display target nits used if the no compression limit is higher than the real display peak nits entered in madVR. So it has a large impact on the brightness of the image.

Display Target Nits =

Max(no compression limit, min target / real display peak nits) + [2x scene Fall × (dynamic tuning % / 100)]



Projected peak nits can be difficult to estimate. If you have a light meter, you can follow SirMaster's advice on how to calculate it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...l#post57641982



If you think you are getting 35 nits, I would enter 35 nits. You might want to lower the dynamic tuning value if you are getting less than 50 nits of peak brightness. A peak of 35 nits is not HDR by any means, so there will be a lot of tone mapping happening to fit a 1,000 nits source to your screen brightness.

I don't think your images in the next post look that bad. You can't really use the SDR version of a movie as a comparison of brightness given the low peak brightness of your screen.
Did some more tests.
Seems the screen is around 50 nits brightness, estimated. 65 with BC on, but I keep it off.

What do you mean by roll-off of the image?

Why is the Maximal target nits 480? If it's increased the image becomes darker, but why 480?

For Soulnight's measurement tool with titles that have had their black bars removed, it says not to use dynamic clipping. What if a video's format is 16:9? Or what format would not be considered to have black bars?
That's why most people keep "dynamic clipping" deactivated in the LIVE algo but keep it activated at 100% with the optimizer tool to get an extra "punch in the picture".
Should dynamic clipping be checked when playing a file with measurements in madvr>hdr>dynamic clipping? Or is the option just enabled from the optimizer?

Enter the Minimal target nits / real display peak nits (50-150 recommended for most).
I'm using a secondary LCD monitor which originally had 300 nits, can I keep it at 200-250 peak display peak nits?

The biggest issue is that for some scenes, or some movies, the dark parts are grey and not black. It's like a grey veil over the image. Even lowering brightness from the PJ from 51 to 50 or 49 does not fix it.

Picture 1 (BHD) is an example. 50 peak nits, 100 dynamic tuning. The rest are from the example you posted.
Tried increasing the peak nits, lowering the dynamic tuning to 50, which made it more grey. With 50 peak nits and 50 dynamic tuning, lowering the brightness to 50/49 gave the best result, but still poor.

Picture 2 and 3, The Redwoods and Sony Swordsmith behave the same as Picture 1. The black floor is elevated. Increasing Dynamic tuning to 150-200 made the image darker, but the grey veil remained. No compression limit did not help either.

Besides the grey veil issue, there seems to be a discoloration of the material.
Pictures 4 and 5 are with the same settings above. Picture 5 is with measurements (Fall algo, settings in last picture). Between the 2 the Live algo seems to be more bright and colorful.
The 6th picture is from the SDR version, which is much brighter and colorful. I know these are two different formats, but the SDR version is objectively better than the HDR.
Haven't done too much viewing, but it seems the discoloration happens in other files, it's just that in the brighter more colorful ones it's less obvious, and I don't have SDR versions for all of them.

I find it difficult to believe that this is the creator's intent, so either the settings are not right or at least with the grey-ish images my displays cannot hand deep blacks. The last part is true, but playing around with the settings can give better blacks than with some of the scenes mentioned above.
What other settings should I try?
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Last edited by noob00224; 08-16-2019 at 09:56 PM.
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post #3283 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Depends on the TV you buy. If you spend some money on one that does HDR well then the UHD rips will be worth it. Honestly for me especially on older movies, with my budget 4k tv, I don't see much difference between a standard blu ray ripped to the 4k version. This in anecdotal as I am not even comparing side by side.

This is without using madvr.

Also in regards to madvr. Its upscaling is good, but don't expect some amazing improvement upscaling 1080p to 4k. Thats just my opinion. Tone mapping is where you get the most benefit from madvr.
Totally disagree with this. MadVR's upscaling is the only upscaler on the planet I've ever seen that can output some 4K quality 1080p. Not every scene but there are times where it just looks native 4K. I was watching a clean rip of a 1080p TV show and it did one of those city scape pans before a scene tarted with all the buildlings and cars driving from a drone shot. MadVR's NGU Sharp very high upscale on that was demo-worthy it looked like looking through a window. The 1080p to 4K upscaling madVR can do is on par with or maybe even better than what the studios manage to upscale 2K to 4K UHD.

That all aside, I do agree with your assessment that on a TV you'd benefit from the HDR more than not so ripping the UHD is worth it for HDR on a TV.

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post #3284 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You don't need a video card to rip an UHD disc. The read speed of drive alone determines how fast the disc will rip.

If you plan to buy an off-the-shelf drive and flash it, ensure the motherboard you are using has an IDE mode for the SATA ports. I don't think this is that common.

You can use madVR with its default settings if you don't have an overly powerful video card. It can be just as easy to follow the settings recommendations from the madVR guide found at the top of the first post. The last section in the guide has some profiles that are better than the default settings.

You can tinker as much as you wish. The settings profiles mentioned should give you a good picture to start with.
You can go to one of the local used PC stores and pick up any "made for XP" or "made for Windows 7" PC for $30-40 and use that to flash the FW. You'll know yo got the right one as most still usually have the sticker on the case showing win7 or winxp. Heck even vista. Windows 8 started transitioning to EFI boot.

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post #3285 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Did some more tests.
Seems the screen is around 50 nits brightness, estimated. 65 with BC on, but I keep it off.

What do you mean by roll-off of the image?

Why is the Maximal target nits 480? If it's increased the image becomes darker, but why 480?
480 nits places the knee point (roll-off point) where tone mapping begins at 100 nits for a 10,000 nits scene peak, so it is prevents 0-100 nits from being compressed, which can cause the image to appear flat.

HDR to SDR display mapping and roll-offs are explained somewhat here:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...194#pid2745194

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For Soulnight's measurement tool with titles that have had their black bars removed, it says not to use dynamic clipping. What if a video's format is 16:9? Or what format would not be considered to have black bars?
That's why most people keep "dynamic clipping" deactivated in the LIVE algo but keep it activated at 100% with the optimizer tool to get an extra "punch in the picture".
Should dynamic clipping be checked when playing a file with measurements in madvr>hdr>dynamic clipping? Or is the option just enabled from the optimizer?
Torrents are the primary sources that are encoded without black bars. Any 1:1 rip, regardless of aspect ratio, will be clipped correctly by the clipping algorithm. The live algorithm has an issue with blowing out the highlights in some scenes. That is the only difference.

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Enter the Minimal target nits / real display peak nits (50-150 recommended for most).
I'm using a secondary LCD monitor which originally had 300 nits, can I keep it at 200-250 peak display peak nits?
You could, but some scenes will be brighter than they were originally mastered.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
The biggest issue is that for some scenes, or some movies, the dark parts are grey and not black. It's like a grey veil over the image. Even lowering brightness from the PJ from 51 to 50 or 49 does not fix it.

Picture 1 (BHD) is an example. 50 peak nits, 100 dynamic tuning. The rest are from the example you posted.
Tried increasing the peak nits, lowering the dynamic tuning to 50, which made it more grey. With 50 peak nits and 50 dynamic tuning, lowering the brightness to 50/49 gave the best result, but still poor.

Picture 2 and 3, The Redwoods and Sony Swordsmith behave the same as Picture 1. The black floor is elevated. Increasing Dynamic tuning to 150-200 made the image darker, but the grey veil remained. No compression limit did not help either.
Grey blacks are typically a gamma tracking issue. Buying a colorimeter and creating a 2.20 3D LUT with DisplayCal would be your best bet for improving your gamma tracking. HDR to SDR is hard on any display with less than ideal near black gamma tracking because it renders a lot of detail near black. This would be less apparent with SDR content, as SDR doesn't require heavy tone mapping.

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Besides the grey veil issue, there seems to be a discoloration of the material.
Pictures 4 and 5 are with the same settings above. Picture 5 is with measurements (Fall algo, settings in last picture). Between the 2 the Live algo seems to be more bright and colorful.
The 6th picture is from the SDR version, which is much brighter and colorful. I know these are two different formats, but the SDR version is objectively better than the HDR.
Haven't done too much viewing, but it seems the discoloration happens in other files, it's just that in the brighter more colorful ones it's less obvious, and I don't have SDR versions for all of them.

I find it difficult to believe that this is the creator's intent, so either the settings are not right or at least with the grey-ish images my displays cannot hand deep blacks. The last part is true, but playing around with the settings can give better blacks than with some of the scenes mentioned above.
What other settings should I try?
I can only recommend matching madVR to the calibrated gamma of your projector to get better blacks, or create a 3D LUT.

I haven't had any issues with color myself. You are trying to do HDR at 50 nits, which is quite difficult if not impossible when the source master can be as high as 10,000 nits. When I compare screenshots I've taken to Blu-ray reviews online, the hue is almost always identical and only the color saturation is slightly different. But I wouldn't say the color is incorrect.
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post #3286 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 03:56 AM - Thread Starter
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You can go to one of the local used PC stores and pick up any "made for XP" or "made for Windows 7" PC for $30-40 and use that to flash the FW. You'll know yo got the right one as most still usually have the sticker on the case showing win7 or winxp. Heck even vista. Windows 8 started transitioning to EFI boot.
So you need to go back as far as Windows 7 to get a motherboard like that? I have one that is still in use, but that makes flashing an UHD drive more difficult than I thought.
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post #3287 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 04:37 AM
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So you need to go back as far as Windows 7 to get a motherboard like that? I have one that is still in use, but that makes flashing an UHD drive more difficult than I thought.
You don't have to but if you do pick up one of those old pc's with a windows 7 sticker on it you're guaranteed it will do the job is all.

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post #3288 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 08:43 AM
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Revisiting MadVR Processing on my HTPC

I have a JVC X970R projector connected to my HTPC (1070 TI Super GPU) running madvr via Kodi, and haven't touched it in a while so was going to re-configure the settings to ensure I have the latest and greatest.

If I picked up a 2070 card, would it provide a worthwhile improvement in MadVR settings set to their maximum?

Where can I find the latest/best version of madvr to download?

Where can I find the latest step guide for configuring madvr?

Is Kodi still the preferred front end for use with madvr on an HTPC, or is MPC integrated with Kodi better and/or just using JRiver?

Last edited by Sittler27; 08-17-2019 at 09:24 AM.
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post #3289 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 09:51 AM
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So you need to go back as far as Windows 7 to get a motherboard like that? I have one that is still in use, but that makes flashing an UHD drive more difficult than I thought.


I did mine on a Ryzen B450 motherboard. Just plugged it in and flashed it. Don't think I changed any bios settings.

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post #3290 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 09:52 AM
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Totally disagree with this. MadVR's upscaling is the only upscaler on the planet I've ever seen that can output some 4K quality 1080p. Not every scene but there are times where it just looks native 4K. I was watching a clean rip of a 1080p TV show and it did one of those city scape pans before a scene tarted with all the buildlings and cars driving from a drone shot. MadVR's NGU Sharp very high upscale on that was demo-worthy it looked like looking through a window. The 1080p to 4K upscaling madVR can do is on par with or maybe even better than what the studios manage to upscale 2K to 4K UHD.



That all aside, I do agree with your assessment that on a TV you'd benefit from the HDR more than not so ripping the UHD is worth it for HDR on a TV.


Maybe I haven't tested enough. But I also don't have a super high end GPU so I don't max everything out. Thanks for the feedback, maybe I should upgrade. Would be sweet if you could do madvr in SLI lol. I have two 1060's.


EDIT### So I have NGU Sharp at very high for 1080p with a GTX 1060. And am rendering at 23. Seems like I have some room to breath what else can I turn up to get a better picture for 1080p?

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post #3291 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
I have a JVC X970R projector connected to my HTPC (1070 TI Super GPU) running madvr via Kodi, and haven't touched it in a while so was going to re-configure the settings to ensure I have the latest and greatest.

Where can I find the latest/best version of madvr to download?

Where can I find the latest step guide for configuring madvr?
Not much has changed since you last posted. The developer madshi is still involved with his new business and should be at CEDIA in September to announce it publicly.

The latest build is available in the post below along with some settings that could be tried:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...l#post58393616

You'll have to adjust the real display peak nits to match your projector. Unlike the build you are using, this should be the actual peak brightness of your projector and not your desired contrast/brightness for all titles.

With this build, the display target nits will go up and down as the movie plays. So the display target nits/real peak nits is intended to change dynamically during playback. I'm not sure if you'll like it or not compared to the static 220-230 nits you've been using for all movies.

To see the active target peak nits in the madVR OSD, you need to create a blank folder called ShowHdrMode and place it in the madVR installation folder. The active target peak nits is shown in brackets in the OSD and should change frequently as the movie plays after you check the box "apply target nits selection" in the control panel.

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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
If I picked up a 2070 card, would it provide a worthwhile improvement in MadVR settings set to their maximum?
No, not likely if you can already use NGU Sharp high or better for image upscaling, and HDR tone mapping with a 3D LUT. If you are having trouble balancing your existing settings with a 3D LUT enabled, it may be worth it. Otherwise, you may see minimal improvement.

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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Is Kodi still the preferred front end for use with madvr on an HTPC, or is MPC integrated with Kodi better and/or just using JRiver?
JRiver is more than acceptable, but I don't see any reason to change. You won't gain anything.
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post #3292 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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I did mine on a Ryzen B450 motherboard. Just plugged it in and flashed it. Don't think I changed any bios settings.
Really, I wonder if the instructions to set the SATA ports to IDE are incorrect?
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post #3293 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:49 AM
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IDE is a wide spread meaning here.
it pretty much just means to run the drive in barebone mode.
this is now AHCI and if that isn't available it will fallback to IDE.
new board are for some reason often in "raid" mode which are smart enough that the end user doesn't notice the difference but flashing may not work.

you should ask the person who has written that you need IDE mode first. maybe it was specific to this board or drive which can easily change with new revs.
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post #3294 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I haven't tested enough. But I also don't have a super high end GPU so I don't max everything out. Thanks for the feedback, maybe I should upgrade. Would be sweet if you could do madvr in SLI lol. I have two 1060's.


EDIT### So I have NGU Sharp at very high for 1080p with a GTX 1060. And am rendering at 23. Seems like I have some room to breath what else can I turn up to get a better picture for 1080p?
You are comparing apples to oranges. Your screen is 55" and markmon's is a projector canvas that spans 135". Images upscaled to 4K UHD resolutions will look very different on a screen that large compared to a smaller TV. Image upscaling to 4K UHD on a 55" TV with different algorithms is likely indiscernible, I'm sure.
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post #3295 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:54 AM
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You are comparing apples to oranges. Your screen is 55" and markmon's is a projector canvas that spans 135". Images upscaled to 4K UHD resolutions will look very different on a screen that large compared to a smaller TV. Image upscaling to 4K UHD on a 55" TV with different algorithms is likely indiscernible, I'm sure.


Haha yes thank you. The voice of reason. Didn't even consider that. Appreciate all the time you spend helping out in here.

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post #3296 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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IDE is a wide spread meaning here.
it pretty much just means to run the drive in barebone mode.
this is now AHCI and if that isn't available it will fallback to IDE.
new board are for some reason often in "raid" mode which are smart enough that the end user doesn't notice the difference but flashing may not work.

you should ask the person who has written that you need IDE mode first. maybe it was specific to this board or drive which can easily change with new revs.
I'd have to try the different SATA modes to determine if a drive could be flashed successfully. I have seen those instructions posted in two different places. But, you're right, they may not apply to all motherboards and obviously not newer AMD motherboards.
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post #3297 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 05:12 PM
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I did mine on a Ryzen B450 motherboard. Just plugged it in and flashed it. Don't think I changed any bios settings.
Your motherboard supports both AHCI and IDE as options for SATA mode. I suspect it was set to IDE so you didn't have to change it from AHCI.

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post #3298 of 3386 Old 08-17-2019, 05:17 PM
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Your motherboard supports both AHCI and IDE as options for SATA mode. I suspect it was set to IDE so you didn't have to change it from AHCI.


It could be. But I have an nvme and an SSD. Those definitely aren't set to ide.

EDIT# Just rebooted and looked, no option for IDE just AHCI which it was set at and raid.

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post #3299 of 3386 Old 08-18-2019, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you have to connect the drive to SATA port #1 , or did you just connect it to any open SATA port?
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post #3300 of 3386 Old 08-18-2019, 06:14 AM
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Did you have to connect the drive to SATA port #1 , or did you just connect it to any open SATA port?

I would have just plugged into whatever I could get to. It's an itx build and pretty difficult to get in there. I think the sata plug is probably still plugged in and tucked behind the door. Before I got the UHD friendly drive and a USB adapter I was just ripping BD's. Whenever I wanted to rip a disc I would take off the case back door and pull it out and plug in the BD drive.

So when I got the UHD drive I did the same to flash it.

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