Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 113 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3361 of 3731 Old 09-17-2019, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by viper008 View Post
sorry if this has been asked before, but if I put a GPU (1660) into a i7 2600k system would it be able to offload the processing of x265 to the GPU and handle MadVR settings? or do I need a current gen Intel chip? Just trying to keep my 2600k alive a little longer.


The 2600k should do ok. People use less than that as long as the GPU is handling things.

I am using a low speed i5 4570s.

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post #3362 of 3731 Old 09-17-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by viper008 View Post
sorry if this has been asked before, but if I put a GPU (1660) into a i7 2600k system would it be able to offload the processing of x265 to the GPU and handle MadVR settings? or do I need a current gen Intel chip? Just trying to keep my 2600k alive a little longer.
Yes, your CPU is more than enough for this.

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post #3363 of 3731 Old 09-17-2019, 09:36 AM
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Yes, your CPU is more than enough for this.
I use gtx 1080ti
Can you give me Madvrsetting.bin ??? I sent messenger for you!
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post #3364 of 3731 Old 09-17-2019, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper008 View Post
sorry if this has been asked before, but if I put a GPU (1660) into a i7 2600k system would it be able to offload the processing of x265 to the GPU and handle MadVR settings? or do I need a current gen Intel chip? Just trying to keep my 2600k alive a little longer.
Yes, your CPU is more than enough for this.
I use gtx 1080ti Can you give me Madvrsetting.bin ??? I sent messenger for you!
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post #3365 of 3731 Old 09-17-2019, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
The 2600k should do ok. People use less than that as long as the GPU is handling things.

I am using a low speed i5 4570s.
ah ok, i see that's an ivy Bridge chip. So for decoding(playing) the Sandybridge will be ok.

Well if I'm watching on a projector will:
will a i7 2600k & 1660 GPU (with MadVR tweaks) be better than simply an 8th Gen Intel i3/5 chip doing the decoding/playing?
Version 7 (Ice Lake)
The Ice Lake (microarchitecture) adds VP9 4:4:4 decoding, VP9 encoding (up to 10-bit and 4:4:4), HEVC 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 decoding and encoding,[15] HDR10 Tone Mapping[16] and Open Source Media Shaders.[17]


I guess the up-scaling of 1080p to 4k is where MadVR will come in, are there any screen shot comparisons of this?

The reason I say projector is that HDR doesn't exist on a projector but the overall image will be 120"?
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post #3366 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 04:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, you need a dedicated GPU and not an iGPU to use madVR. I have seen the odd 1080P -> 4K UHD upscaling screenshot comparison, but not many. You'd have to do a forum search to find them. If you have a projector, the difference in upscaling will certainly be noticeable.
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post #3367 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Yes, you need a dedicated GPU and not an iGPU to use madVR. I have seen the odd 1080P -> 4K UHD upscaling screenshot comparison, but not many. You'd have to do a forum search to find them. If you have a projector, the difference in upscaling will certainly be noticeable.
what are your thoughts on the CPU tone mapping - this would be a great cost saver (it does mean the other elements of MadVR would need to be good to justify the expense of a GPU if the CPU can handle tone mapping right?)
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post #3368 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I use gtx 1080ti Can you give me Madvrsetting.bin ??? I sent messenger for you!
My settings.bin may or may not work well for you as I do have scripted profiles and I'm on build 47.
Here is my settings.bin file: http://hifiandtheater.com/files/settings.bin

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post #3369 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by viper008 View Post
what are your thoughts on the CPU tone mapping - this would be a great cost saver (it does mean the other elements of MadVR would need to be good to justify the expense of a GPU if the CPU can handle tone mapping right?)
If you are using madVR, there is no option to tone map with the CPU. Tone mapping HDR content uses a lot of processing power and requires a GPU in the range of a GTX 1070 or better to be done in the highest quality. Almost all video processing options are handled by the GPU.
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post #3370 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 09:30 AM
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Coil Whine & MadVR

Has anyone experienced noise audible from speakers and your graphic card itself? From my research it is called "coil whine". I unfortunately have and it is frustrating to say the least. What is interesting is that it appears to only occur under certain conditions. The condition that is most likely to cause it is playing a video utilizing the features of MadVR. Adjusting settings within MadVR seems to effect the tone of the sound and its apparent volume. Additionally playing a video without using MadVR results in the noise going completely away. I have tried changing a variety of things including the card itself but the sound remains. I have gotten it to a level in which I can not hear the graphics card from my seated position away from the computer. It is still audible from my speakers if I turn my AVR's volume most of the way down. I cant hear it at listening volumes so I am trying to let it go however I would prefer it not be there. The current card I am using is a 2060 Super. My power supply is new and of a high quality. I cant return the card but have already exchanged it through an RMA process with the replacement being slightly worse than the original. Perhaps its as simple as that I chose the wrong brand.



Thanks
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post #3371 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 10:45 AM
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if it comes from the speaker it's not coil whine. coil whine comes from moving part (coils) in the GPU that move from the high frequency applied to them. your issue is coming from the GPU but it is not the GPU vault the issue should be filtered out before the signal is turned into audio.

if you don't use analogue audio your AVR get this issue most likely directly from power source which the GPU can affect or over the power from the hdmi cable which should not happen but you know... grounding the AVR may help or a different circuit.

if you use analogue out at the PC your system DAC simply get feed with the "dirty" audio from the GPU kind of electricity works differently but you get the idea here the issue comes from your onboard soundcard been unenable to filter the power before sending it into an DAC that's quite common. in this case changing the output to digital may help.
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post #3372 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
if it comes from the speaker it's not coil whine. coil whine comes from moving part (coils) in the GPU that move from the high frequency applied to them. your issue is coming from the GPU but it is not the GPU vault the issue should be filtered out before the signal is turned into audio.

if you don't use analogue audio your AVR get this issue most likely directly from power source which the GPU can affect or over the power from the hdmi cable which should not happen but you know... grounding the AVR may help or a different circuit.

if you use analogue out at the PC your system DAC simply get feed with the "dirty" audio from the GPU kind of electricity works differently but you get the idea here the issue comes from your onboard soundcard been unenable to filter the power before sending it into an DAC that's quite common. in this case changing the output to digital may help.
Thanks for your response.



I use HDMI for both audio and video from my HTPC to my Yamaha 5200. The Yamaha is not grounded as its cord has only 2 prongs. The sound I am hearing clearly comes from both the card itself and all speakers and sounds the same from each. Adjustments to MadVR settings effects the sounds identically. When I stop a video utilizing MadVR the sound disappears simultaneously both from HDMI and the card itself. I tried plugging in the various devices to a different outlet. Also, I plugged them into to a battery backup thinking any noise may be removed. Neither changed the sound. I am considering buying a basic conditioner, something like a Furman PST-8 but am a bit skeptical as to whether or not it will fix the issue.


Thanks
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post #3373 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
Thanks for your response.



I use HDMI for both audio and video from my HTPC to my Yamaha 5200. The Yamaha is not grounded as its cord has only 2 prongs. The sound I am hearing clearly comes from both the card itself and all speakers and sounds the same from each. Adjustments to MadVR settings effects the sounds identically. When I stop a video utilizing MadVR the sound disappears simultaneously both from HDMI and the card itself. I tried plugging in the various devices to a different outlet. Also, I plugged them into to a battery backup thinking any noise may be removed. Neither changed the sound. I am considering buying a basic conditioner, something like a Furman PST-8 but am a bit skeptical as to whether or not it will fix the issue.


Thanks
Just a thought. Have you tried connecting your GPU off a different power lead from the PC power supply?
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post #3374 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Just a thought. Have you tried connecting your GPU off a different power lead from the PC power supply?
Thanks for your suggestion.



I tried it using the original power supply I had in my HTPC. After hearing the noise and doing some research I ended up replacing the power supply since my existing one had some age on it. The new one (Seasonic Prime 750 Titanium) is suppose to be of high quality and I have the same issue with it. There may be a slight difference in the sound but I am not certain.
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post #3375 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
Thanks for your response.



I use HDMI for both audio and video from my HTPC to my Yamaha 5200. The Yamaha is not grounded as its cord has only 2 prongs. The sound I am hearing clearly comes from both the card itself and all speakers and sounds the same from each. Adjustments to MadVR settings effects the sounds identically. When I stop a video utilizing MadVR the sound disappears simultaneously both from HDMI and the card itself. I tried plugging in the various devices to a different outlet. Also, I plugged them into to a battery backup thinking any noise may be removed. Neither changed the sound. I am considering buying a basic conditioner, something like a Furman PST-8 but am a bit skeptical as to whether or not it will fix the issue.


Thanks
It does sound like coil whine, maybe the speakers are somehow picking it up. As you are seeing the load on the graphics card affects it. Maybe you could underclock the gpu a bit, hopefully
not affecting performance but lightening the load on the gpu. Who knows but it would only take a few minutes to try it out.

If it is coil whine it is pretty hit and miss between cards. Certain GPU's have been known to have it bad, but at the same time different cards of the same model can have it while others don't.
So if this is a new card returning it may solve the issue and it may not.

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post #3376 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 11:53 AM
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try to ground the PC case and the AVR case. the PC case grounding nearly for sure will do nothing.
you can use any type of cable to do that you just have to connect it to something that is grounded like a heater.

the noise you hear out of the case is nearly for sure coil whine.

i just need a min to get the fact into my head that an AVR of that price isn't grounded...

nothing of this should change the coil whine on the GPU it self.
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post #3377 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
It does sound like coil whine, maybe the speakers are somehow picking it up. As you are seeing the load on the graphics card affects it. Maybe you could underclock the gpu a bit, hopefully

not affecting performance but lightening the load on the gpu. Who knows but it would only take a few minutes to try it out.



If it is coil whine it is pretty hit and miss between cards. Certain GPU's have been known to have it bad, but at the same time different cards of the same model can have it while others don't.

So if this is a new card returning it may solve the issue and it may not.
I am on the 3rd card from the same manufacturer - EVGA. They have been good to deal with thus far. I have tried playing with the frequencies/voltages without much success. However, I am not familiar with the best methods to utilize while trying to over/under clock. Running something else in the background that uses the GPU seems to have some benefit however it's hard to strike a balance.

Thanks

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post #3378 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
try to ground the PC case and the AVR case. the PC case grounding nearly for sure will do nothing.

you can use any type of cable to do that you just have to connect it to something that is grounded like a heater.



the noise you hear out of the case is nearly for sure coil whine.



i just need a min to get the fact into my head that an AVR of that price isn't grounded...



nothing of this should change the coil whine on the GPU it self.
I looked at the back of the 5200 and confirmed no ground on incoming power connection. The phono input does have a ground terminal. I also confirmed that my amp has the same power input connection as well.

The mystery continues.

Thanks

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post #3379 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
Has anyone experienced noise audible from speakers and your graphic card itself? From my research it is called "coil whine". I unfortunately have and it is frustrating to say the least. What is interesting is that it appears to only occur under certain conditions. The condition that is most likely to cause it is playing a video utilizing the features of MadVR. Adjusting settings within MadVR seems to effect the tone of the sound and its apparent volume. Additionally playing a video without using MadVR results in the noise going completely away. I have tried changing a variety of things including the card itself but the sound remains. I have gotten it to a level in which I can not hear the graphics card from my seated position away from the computer. It is still audible from my speakers if I turn my AVR's volume most of the way down. I cant hear it at listening volumes so I am trying to let it go however I would prefer it not be there.
I have this exact issue with my GTX 1080 in my HTPC.

Lift the ground on the PC power supply to test. The video card continues to make the noise, but it stops playing through the speakers.

I have not figured out a proper way to ground the PC where the sound from the video card is not transmitted over HDMI to the audio system.

By lifting the ground you risk electric shock. Be very careful touching the PC while it is running as you may become the ground connection.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
i just need a min to get the fact into my head that an AVR of that price isn't grounded...
Almost no AVRs connect the ground pin to the AVR unit. Seriously can't think of a single one in over the dozen that I've had.

IIRC the Emotiva XMC-1 had a 3 pin IEC connector on the back of the unit and a regular 3 pin cord, but internally it was not connected.
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post #3380 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 02:38 PM
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What is the best way to lift the ground? I have an extra power cord that I can remove the ground prong from. Have you tried a power conditioner?

Thanks

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post #3381 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 02:44 PM
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What is the best way to lift the ground? I have an extra power cord that I can remove the ground prong from. Have you tried a power conditioner?
I broke the ground pin off one of my power cords. You'd be surprised how often you might want to test with it when it comes to audio stuff.

I don't believe there is anything wrong with my power so I have not tried a power conditioner. I doubt there would be any effect. The source of the problem is the PC video card. If the source was somewhere else in the house maybe it might help. Everything I've read says those are a waste of money.
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post #3382 of 3731 Old 09-18-2019, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
I am on the 3rd card from the same manufacturer - EVGA. They have been good to deal with thus far. I have tried playing with the frequencies/voltages without much success. However, I am not familiar with the best methods to utilize while trying to over/under clock. Running something else in the background that uses the GPU seems to have some benefit however it's hard to strike a balance.

Thanks

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Wow what a pain, yeah they are great to work with as far as RMA's go but that is a lot of returning, and still no luck huh.

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post #3383 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
If you are using madVR, there is no option to tone map with the CPU. Tone mapping HDR content uses a lot of processing power and requires a GPU in the range of a GTX 1070 or better to be done in the highest quality. Almost all video processing options are handled by the GPU.
Sorry i meant your thoughts that the new Intel processors will now do this..

Version 7 (Ice Lake)
The Ice Lake (microarchitecture) adds VP9 4:4:4 decoding, VP9 encoding (up to 10-bit and 4:4:4), HEVC 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 decoding and encoding,[15] HDR10 Tone Mapping[16] and Open Source Media Shaders.

Because if you are watching 4k content on a 4k display then MadVR isn't actually doing much unless Chroma scaling option is being used correct?

*i'll need to google the difference between HDR10 tone mapping and chroma scaling
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post #3384 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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That is low-quality, hardware tone mapping provided by Intel's DXVA2 rendering. It is significantly worse than what is offered by madVR's rendering.
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post #3385 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalhua View Post
Has anyone experienced noise audible from speakers and your graphic card itself? From my research it is called "coil whine". I unfortunately have and it is frustrating to say the least. What is interesting is that it appears to only occur under certain conditions. The condition that is most likely to cause it is playing a video utilizing the features of MadVR. Adjusting settings within MadVR seems to effect the tone of the sound and its apparent volume. Additionally playing a video without using MadVR results in the noise going completely away. I have tried changing a variety of things including the card itself but the sound remains. I have gotten it to a level in which I can not hear the graphics card from my seated position away from the computer. It is still audible from my speakers if I turn my AVR's volume most of the way down. I cant hear it at listening volumes so I am trying to let it go however I would prefer it not be there. The current card I am using is a 2060 Super. My power supply is new and of a high quality. I cant return the card but have already exchanged it through an RMA process with the replacement being slightly worse than the original. Perhaps its as simple as that I chose the wrong brand.



Thanks
I had this issue. A higher pitched noise from the speakers only when certain things were happening on the screen. Moving to my McIntosh amps completely killed all noise it but before that, I think the best I got it was by running some speaker wire from the ground chassis on my receiver to the PC Case bolts, which should also be ground on the PC. That seemed to eliminate it or lower it to the point I never noticed it anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
try to ground the PC case and the AVR case. the PC case grounding nearly for sure will do nothing.
you can use any type of cable to do that you just have to connect it to something that is grounded like a heater.

the noise you hear out of the case is nearly for sure coil whine.

i just need a min to get the fact into my head that an AVR of that price isn't grounded...

nothing of this should change the coil whine on the GPU it self.
Yep this I did to solve mine.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #3386 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 09:31 PM
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Up until now I've been using an Intel NUC7 i5 with onboard graphics connected to my Panasonic Plasma for all my HTPC use, and whilst it plays 4k movies streamed from my NAS, the CPU seems to be close to 100% most of the time. I just upgraded to an LG C9 and was thinking to upgrade the HTPC, but I just discovered the app on the TV will play all my videos from my NAS including 4k mkv files without a problem. The only issue I see so far is that it won't send 7.1 sound to the AVR, but it will do 5.1.

Maybe there are more limitations I haven't yet discovered, but right now I'm thinking I might even be able to ditch the HTPC altogether. Has anyone gone down this path? (I don't use the TV for gaming).
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post #3387 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 09:45 PM
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You don't get lossless audio passthrough from the built-in apps on the C9. At least not yet.
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post #3388 of 3731 Old 09-19-2019, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
You don't get lossless audio passthrough from the built-in apps on the C9. At least not yet.
Ah that's good to know, thanks.
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post #3389 of 3731 Old 09-22-2019, 10:14 AM
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Hello guys.. Im thinking of finally building an htpc for my projector now that the envy is like a million dollars.. My question is, can you now stream 4k from apps like vudu or netflix? And if i use the Pioneer bdr211 will madvr tone map that as well.. I don't want to rip anything or save movies into the hard drive..

I just want to insert a disc and have madvr do DTM or stream movies through vudu and have madvr do its DTM..

Please tell me yes..
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post #3390 of 3731 Old 09-22-2019, 10:37 AM
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madVR is not HDCP compliant and streaming services are usually not working at UHD on windows PCs or need special CPU/iGPU and software which is not madVR.

a HTPC doesn't sound like something you want.

as always copy protection only hurts user that don't work around it.
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