Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 4307 Old 04-27-2017, 05:13 PM
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Advice

Looking for recs on a CPU/GPU for 4K.

I just bought a 4K TV (hasn't even arrived yet) and am looking to build a HTPC around it with MadVR. My usage is rather unusual: I don't game, but I watch/edit videos in which I fast-forward a lot: up to 5x depending on what I'm viewing. Obviously this puts more stress on the CPU/GPU to keep up without frame drops. With my current setup (Radeon R9 280, i7-4930K) I can do this with 1080P with NGU/Anti-Alias, Medium Quality/SuperRes Strength 1. With 720 I can maximize both NGU & SupeRes settings (with DXVA2 Image Upscaling) and it works fine. I'm just wondering what I'd need to maintain this with 4K in terms of GPU/CPU power, or if it's even possible right now.
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post #332 of 4307 Old 05-06-2017, 11:06 AM
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HTPC build for MadVR

Hey guys,

I decided I don't want an Android 4K box for my LG OLED55E6V TV. Instead I want to build a HTPC.

I gathered some components:
CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 (Kaby Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Strix Z270I Gaming or MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC or Gigabyte Z270N-WIFI
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 8GB DDR4-2400 CL16
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 SC GAMING 6GB
SSD: Crucial MX300 1TB
PSU: Corsair SF450
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 or SilverStone Raven RVZ01
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-L9i
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit

Is this a good setup ? I'm not sure I need such an expensive CPU and the motherboard doesn't need to be the gaming kind so the Gigabyte seems best (cheaper). And is 8GB DDR4 memory enough or is 16GB better ? Any suggestions about these ?
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post #333 of 4307 Old 05-07-2017, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijnie View Post
Hey guys,

I decided I don't want an Android 4K box for my LG OLED55E6V TV. Instead I want to build a HTPC.

I gathered some components:
CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 (Kaby Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Strix Z270I Gaming or MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC or Gigabyte Z270N-WIFI
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 8GB DDR4-2400 CL16
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 SC GAMING 6GB
SSD: Crucial MX300 1TB
PSU: Corsair SF450
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 or SilverStone Raven RVZ01
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-L9i
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit

Is this a good setup ? I'm not sure I need such an expensive CPU and the motherboard doesn't need to be the gaming kind so the Gigabyte seems best (cheaper). And is 8GB DDR4 memory enough or is 16GB better ? Any suggestions about these ?
8GB is plenty of RAM. madVR is all about the GPU and the GTX 1060 is good enough.
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post #334 of 4307 Old 05-08-2017, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stijnie View Post
Hey guys,

I decided I don't want an Android 4K box for my LG OLED55E6V TV. Instead I want to build a HTPC.

I gathered some components:
CPU: Intel Core i5-7500 (Kaby Lake)
Motherboard: ASUS Strix Z270I Gaming or MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC or Gigabyte Z270N-WIFI
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX Black 8GB DDR4-2400 CL16
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 1060 SC GAMING 6GB
SSD: Crucial MX300 1TB
PSU: Corsair SF450
Case: Fractal Design Node 202 or SilverStone Raven RVZ01
CPU cooler: Noctua NH-L9i
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64Bit

Is this a good setup ? I'm not sure I need such an expensive CPU and the motherboard doesn't need to be the gaming kind so the Gigabyte seems best (cheaper). And is 8GB DDR4 memory enough or is 16GB better ? Any suggestions about these ?
Save some money and get a B250 or H270 motherboard instead since you are getting a non-OC CPU.

8GB is enough RAM.
Everything else is fine.
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post #335 of 4307 Old 05-09-2017, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Tan View Post
Save some money and get a B250 or H270 motherboard instead since you are getting a non-OC CPU.

8GB is enough RAM.
Everything else is fine.
Thinking you may need a larger PSU because of the GPU.

Joe
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post #336 of 4307 Old 05-09-2017, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeAngelicchio View Post
Thinking you may need a larger PSU because of the GPU.
No he doesn't. Could even run a 1070 if he wanted to.

Review of the SF450 with actual hot-box bench tests (look at that 12v reg tests!):
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story&reid=483
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post #337 of 4307 Old 05-10-2017, 01:28 PM
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Looking for a bit of advice: I have an older HTPC that I'd like to upgrade to accommodate my UHD TV. Currently working with integrated graphics from my i5-3570 CPU. My use right now is almost entirely playback of video files ranging in size from SD to HD (intend to use UHD with a new GPU as well, but current iGPU can't handle it). I'd like to expand that to UHD BD playback when the standards and such settle down though.

Questions:

1. Is the market and tv/hdmi/audio standards stable enough to justify a complete overhaul (Kaby Lake, new MB, UHD BD drive, playback software) to gain UHD BD playback? Or should I just throw a new GPU in for now and wait on the rest?

2. Since my AVR doesn't support HDMI 2.0 passthrough, I was hoping to output HDMI to both TV (UHD video) and AVR (HD audio) from the HTPC. Is this possible?

3. I'm looking at a GTX1070 to give me good filter/processing performance. Are there any somewhat affordable ones that exhaust heat to the outside of the case? My Fractal Define Mini is quiet bit doesn't have great airflow with the sound abatement panels installed.
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post #338 of 4307 Old 05-12-2017, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
8GB is plenty of RAM. madVR is all about the GPU and the GTX 1060 is good enough.
Is it good enough for NGU High settings for 1080 to 2160?

I'd like the ability to scale 720 to 2160 at as high settings as possible also.

I'm just wondering should I stretch to a 1070 or 1080 for future proofing.

Here's the spec I have at the moment.

*Motherboard : Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H Motherboard
*Processor Upgrade : AMD A8-6600K 3.9GHz [4.2GHz Turbo] Quad Core APU + Integrated HD 8570D Graphics
* Processor Cooling Upgrade : Zalman CNPS7000C-ALCU Copper & Aluminium CPU Cooler
*Power Supply Upgrade : Quiet 600W Power Supply
*Graphics Upgrade : Nvidia GTX 960 2GB GDDR5 Graphics Card
*Sound Card Upgrade : Onboard 7.1 Surround Sound Audio

Is my processor ok and is the motherboard up to scratch for upscaling only? I won't be looking to playback UHD discs on the HTPC.

Display : JVC X7000 Projector | SE 103" Enlightor 4k | LG 65B6 OLED |
Sources : Panasonic UDP 700 & Vertex| Apple TV4k | HTPC | Sky Q UHD Satellite | Sonos Connect | Synology 24Tb |
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post #339 of 4307 Old 05-12-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidenL View Post
Is it good enough for NGU High settings for 1080 to 2160?

I'd like the ability to scale 720 to 2160 at as high settings as possible also.

I'm just wondering should I stretch to a 1070 or 1080 for future proofing.
Personally I tend to agree, I stepped from a 980 to 1070 for constant use with my 4K projector. So far the 1070 has handled pretty much most I've thrown at, although I have struck some limitations with pushing settings too high at times. So I'd say that it's worth the bit more you pay for it.
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post #340 of 4307 Old 05-16-2017, 01:16 AM
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Hi,

seems like you guys are way ahead of any other forum on the internet about this topic. I'm also trying to build a machine that is able to play 4K media without any limitations. So far my build looks like this:
CPU: Intel Core i5 7500
RAM: 8GB G.Skill Value DDR4-2133 DIMM CL15
Board: ASRock H270M-ITX/ac Intel H270 So.1151
Case: Silverstone RVZ02 Mini-ITX
Power: 500 Watt Silverstone Strider Series Modular 80+ Gold
GPU: 6GB KFA2 GeForce GTX 1060 OC
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L9i Topblow
SSD: any

Build ok?

I've read somewhere that 4k media uses up to 6GB of VRAM. Does hat mean that the GPU is on full load? Would it make sense to invest more and get a GTX 1070 with 8 GB of VRAM or is the 1060 easily able to play any 4k file?

Regarding the HDMI 2.0a specification is there any reason to hold back and wait with a HTPC? I want to tap the full potential of my TV (LG B6) and not upgrade again next year.
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post #341 of 4307 Old 05-16-2017, 04:26 AM
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6 GB Vram are totally save.

the powersupply is totally oversized. and 2400 mhz ram cost about the same as 2133.
4K playback without limitations is a dream that will take atleast 2 more years...

HDMI 2.1 stand right in front of us. the HDR format battle is just starting.
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post #342 of 4307 Old 05-16-2017, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
the powersupply is totally oversized. and 2400 mhz ram cost about the same as 2133.
4K playback without limitations is a dream that will take atleast 2 more years...

HDMI 2.1 stand right in front of us. the HDR format battle is just starting.
power supply: SFX-L are supposed to be quieter than SFX. I'm not able to find any good SFX-L with lower wattage.
ram: you are right, the price difference is minor
4k playback/HDMI 2.1: of course there is always something new on the horizon. But in this case it is necessary to replace all components (TV, AVR, cables,...). My requirement is just that this HTPC is able to fully take advantage of today's standard.
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post #343 of 4307 Old 05-17-2017, 02:53 PM
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Has anybody used a Kaby Lake i3 for a 4k HTPC?

I will be getting a GTX 1080 (non Ti) and was wondering if I can get by with an i3 instead of i5. Since all processing is done through the GPU not sure if I'll need the extra processing power. The HTPC will be running Kodi 100% of the time and upscaling 720/1080p videos to 4k.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #344 of 4307 Old 05-17-2017, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post
Has anybody used a Kaby Lake i3 for a 4k HTPC?

I will be getting a GTX 1080 (non Ti) and was wondering if I can get by with an i3 instead of i5. Since all processing is done through the GPU not sure if I'll need the extra processing power. The HTPC will be running Kodi 100% of the time and upscaling 720/1080p videos to 4k.
even slower CPU should be fine like a G4560.
it all depends on what you want to do. madVR is fine with such a GPU.
i'm using a i3 4130 for years now in my HTPC the CPU was never the problem.
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post #345 of 4307 Old 05-17-2017, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
even slower CPU should be fine like a G4560.
it all depends on what you want to do. madVR is fine with such a GPU.
i'm using a i3 4130 for years now in my HTPC the CPU was never the problem.
Thanks for the confirmation but I'll stick with the i3 since it has better resale value if I decide to upgrade.

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #346 of 4307 Old 05-17-2017, 08:56 PM
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the performance difference between an i3 and a pentium G4560 id very little but the i3 cost a lot more.
the main difference is ~400 mhz, AVX/AVX2 and a way better iGPU which is worthless in this scenario for double the price...
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post #347 of 4307 Old 05-18-2017, 09:24 AM
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Okay i hope i come to the right place for my question.... I want to have a HTPC built using madVR for best possible image displaying 4K & Blu-Ray files(thur my projector). But i also want that HTPC to have massive storage for my movies. Is this achievable or possible if so where do i start...Thanks

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post #348 of 4307 Old 05-18-2017, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
the performance difference between an i3 and a pentium G4560 id very little but the i3 cost a lot more.
A few recent sales among many at Fry's...
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| 125" Projection | 5.2.4 Audio | Shield TV | CoreELEC/ODROID-C2 Kodi Media Client | Ubuntu/ODROID-XU4 NAS/Server | 65" OLED TV | TiVo | Shield TV | Fire TV 4K |
| Water cooled Threadripper & Radeon VII, NVMe PC - 43" 4K IPS Panel |

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post #349 of 4307 Old 05-18-2017, 07:06 PM
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other pentium that are not the G4560 are usually heavily over priced.

i can get a G4560 right now for 57 € without a sale.
even at 77 bucks i'm pretty sure the i3 isn't worth the price difference.

but prices are different all over the world.
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post #350 of 4307 Old 05-23-2017, 07:47 PM
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Just wondering if someone can help me out setting up MPC-HC / MadVR for 10bit playback. I have a GTX960 (just 2GB) which seems to playback 4K fairly good to my Vizio M55-D0 (just got it tonight after waiting weeks for delivery). I'm just struggling with 4K&HDR at the moment. I'm not certain it is passing the HDR through to the TV (seems very washed out and the Tablet included with the TV not once has indicated HDR ON for any setting I've tried. I have it in 4k / 60hz / 4:2:0 currently.

I can post anything within MadVR settings / TV settings etc etc if it will help get this up and going. I know the GTX960 is bare minimum and I'm wondering if it will just be easier to get a Roku Ultra or something to play back H265 4K files ? ($139 CAD at BestBuy).

I thought that may I could find a real HDR clip on Youtube (ChromeCast Ultra) but I haven't found one yet that switches the HDR to ON in my Tablet remote. I found lots of clips claiming to be HDR but I think maybe they just mapped it back to SDR. Does anyone know anything one Youtube or Netflix I could immediately test the HDR ability of the tv with? I think I need the Ultra subscription on Netflix to get UHD stuff (and effectively HDR?)
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post #351 of 4307 Old 05-30-2017, 08:48 PM
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On my i5 intel iGPU pc, among Potplayer and Mpc-HC/BE, Potplayer gives me the best madVR result by playing 4K/HDR clips, no dropped frames, no glitches, lowest rendering ms and full filled queues. The same madVR setting on Mpc-HC/BE drops lots of frames, means unwatchable. Maybe Potplayer internal decoder is better than the others, I'm not sure.
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post #352 of 4307 Old 06-03-2017, 05:55 PM
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My build:

CPU - i5 Core 7500
Motherboard - MSI H270i ITX
Memory - Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB (2x4)
Video Card - ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Dual-fan OC Edition VR
Case - SilverStone RVZ01B-e
PSU - SilverStone 400watt ATX
HD - Samsung 850 500GB
OS - Win 10

Projector is an Epson 5040ube.

I downloaded the K-Lite package that includes MPC-HC w/ Lav and MadVR. I then set the Mad-VR settings as follows:

Chroma: NGU Sharp (very high)
Downscaling: SSIM 2D 100% + AR + LL
Image upscaling: Jinc3 + AR
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: crispen edges (1.0) + AR
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

This setting makes the 4K HDR REC.2020 10-bit Mp4 video and it's a bit of a slide show. If I reduce the Chroma NGU Sharp from Very High to Medium, it plays perfect. Is this normal or am I missing something?

Also, I notice mention of "Image doubling", but I can't find it anywhere in the MPC-HC menu! I've notice people saying to leave it off, so I didn't worry too much about it, but just wanted to mention it.
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post #353 of 4307 Old 06-04-2017, 08:02 AM
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Image doubling is a madVR setting. I use:


NGU Sharp high
Direct quad very high
Normal
1.2
2.4
Jinc AR
SSIM 1D100 AR + LL


This works well with HDR and 1080p > 2160p via GTX 960 for me fwiw. Rendering and queues ok.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1909 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3&5 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
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post #354 of 4307 Old 06-04-2017, 07:09 PM
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A quick question, for sanity check.

My PC is currently running on a Nvidia Geforce GTX970 (4gb). I bought it a few years ago. I certainly bought it before I started hearing about 4k, HDR and hdmi 2.0.

In order to transmit 4K HDR from my PC to my HDR projector (JVC RS500), I need hdmi 2.0, right? I am having a hard time finding out if my current video card supports hdmi 2.0 and/or hdcp 2.2...how will I find out?
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post #355 of 4307 Old 06-05-2017, 07:13 AM
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970 has hdmi 2.0 and hdcp 2.2 BUT it doesn't have a fixed function HEVC decoder so that's the your real problem for UHD playback.

"all" nvidia cards of 900 and 1000 series have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. some of 900 series card are missing a HEVC decoder.
"all" AMD card of the 400 and 500 series have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.
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post #356 of 4307 Old 06-05-2017, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
970 has hdmi 2.0 and hdcp 2.2 BUT it doesn't have a fixed function HEVC decoder so that's the your real problem for UHD playback.

"all" nvidia cards of 900 and 1000 series have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. some of 900 series card are missing a HEVC decoder.
"all" AMD card of the 400 and 500 series have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2.
Thanks for the very precise answer!

I just replaced my GTX970 (4GB) with a GTX1060 (6GB). They both give me the exact same benchamark for 3D and 2D processing (passmark Performance Test 9). That's a little disappoinging, considering my GTX970 is more than 2 years old.

So if both cards support HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and have the same benchmarked performance, this is useless upgrade... Unless the GTX1060 performs significantly better when decoding H.265 files. My system can play H.265 files with any of the two cards, but I guess the CPU must do all of the decoding job with my GTX970?
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post #357 of 4307 Old 06-05-2017, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by likelinus View Post
My build:

CPU - i5 Core 7500
Motherboard - MSI H270i ITX
Memory - Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB (2x4)
Video Card - ASUS GeForce GTX 1060 6GB Dual-fan OC Edition VR
Case - SilverStone RVZ01B-e
PSU - SilverStone 400watt ATX
HD - Samsung 850 500GB
OS - Win 10

Projector is an Epson 5040ube.

I downloaded the K-Lite package that includes MPC-HC w/ Lav and MadVR. I then set the Mad-VR settings as follows:

Chroma: NGU Sharp (very high)
Downscaling: SSIM 2D 100% + AR + LL
Image upscaling: Jinc3 + AR
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Low/Medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: crispen edges (1.0) + AR
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

This setting makes the 4K HDR REC.2020 10-bit Mp4 video and it's a bit of a slide show. If I reduce the Chroma NGU Sharp from Very High to Medium, it plays perfect. Is this normal or am I missing something?

Also, I notice mention of "Image doubling", but I can't find it anywhere in the MPC-HC menu! I've notice people saying to leave it off, so I didn't worry too much about it, but just wanted to mention it.
Read this guide: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188.
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post #358 of 4307 Old 06-06-2017, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
970 has hdmi 2.0 and hdcp 2.2 BUT it doesn't have a fixed function HEVC decoder so that's the your real problem for UHD playback.

"all" nvidia cards of 900 and 1000 series have HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. some of 900 series card are missing a HEVC decoder.
The 950 and 960 have full HEVC hardware decoding and HDCP 2.2 because they use GM206, the final Maxwell GPU design. All other 900-series cards use the older GM108, GM200, and GM204 GPUs, which did not have those in their GPU design. All 1000-series cards have the hardware for UHD displays and content.
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post #359 of 4307 Old 06-06-2017, 07:28 AM
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Thanks for the very precise answer!

I just replaced my GTX970 (4GB) with a GTX1060 (6GB). They both give me the exact same benchamark for 3D and 2D processing (passmark Performance Test 9). That's a little disappoinging, considering my GTX970 is more than 2 years old.

So if both cards support HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and have the same benchmarked performance, this is useless upgrade... Unless the GTX1060 performs significantly better when decoding H.265 files. My system can play H.265 files with any of the two cards, but I guess the CPU must do all of the decoding job with my GTX970?
The GTX 1060 is superior to the older 970. It's designed for 4K use and it packs enough power to handle all media content. The 6GB version is the ideal HTPC card if you are a madVR enthusiast, though you can obviously go bigger and better if you can afford to do so.
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post #360 of 4307 Old 06-06-2017, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
The GTX 1060 is superior to the older 970. It's designed for 4K use and it packs enough power to handle all media content. The 6GB version is the ideal HTPC card if you are a madVR enthusiast, though you can obviously go bigger and better if you can afford to do so.
Thank you for your answer!

I will compare my newer GTX 1060 VS my older GTX 970 during the next few days. Hopefully, the GTX 1060 will allow me to crank the setting a little bit higher in MadVR versus the GTX 970. If that is the case, I will keep it. But so far, they both yield the same benchmark results (passmark 2D and passmark 3D performance test). With MadVR, it might be a different story. I will report back shortly.
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