Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 122 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3631 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
The Shield's processing is over-sharpening. That's a well known fact. If you need more sharpness use madVR's sharpening algorithms under '"image enhancements".

P.S.: The up-scaling of the Shield is awful.
Agreed, the upscaling on the Shield is terrible. The picture you would get with upscaling with the Shield is equivalent to the picture I am getting while watching 4K material with MadVR.

I just don't know if there is a setting in MadVR to correct this.
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post #3632 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 09:55 AM
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The Shield's processing is over-sharpening. That's a well known fact. If you need more sharpness use madVR's sharpening algorithms under '"image enhancements".

P.S.: The up-scaling of the Shield is awful.[/QUOTE]

I am 1000% good with the picture quality I get from the Shield and Plex. I just want the tone mapping of MadVR.
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post #3633 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Everything just looks out of focus. Look at doctor stranges face in the brick wall. It much sharper and in focus playing it on the shield. More 3D looking.

Like I said the tone mapping looks good but the video is out of focus.

I do not have a second monitor.

Check out the pictures I attached for Markmon1. Look at the clothes and how they look in focus and then look at the faces and see how out of focus they look.
I mean do you have a laptop/tablet to look at the screenshots made? From the screenshots on my monitor I can't really tell what is wrong. Maybe my eye is not trained enough.

A test between a 4K with HDR and 4K without HDR of the same file could maybe help:
Go to Youtube, find any 4K HDR clip that you think might be a good test.
Something like this is ok?:

Youtube stores 4K (2160p) versions with and without HDR.
Note: the 4K SDR version (of the 4K HDR version) is the HDR>SDR converted to SDR. The difference is the color gamut. The colors may looks wrong (on some videos) because YT has a poor method of HDR>SDR conversion. Everything else should be the same between the two versions, although I'm not 100% sure if the conversion affects sharpness/focus. It does not on my setup.




Accessing these can be done via youtube-dl. If you're unfamiliar with youtube-dl or is too complicated there a software called SVP which is primarily an interpolation software, but it comes with a component called SVP Tube. It has a 30 day trial. There may be other software but I'm not familiar with what can do the same thing.

If you get SVP, just open the program and in the right lower side there should be a red square with a white arrow, just like in the screenshot. Open a browser window with the video you're trying to download, copy the url, and SVPtube should pop up. Select the version, and click the down arrow right of the Play button and click download.

With 4K Video Downloader both the 4K SDR and HDR can be downloaded as mkv's, but the HDR version in OSD says matrix BT.2020 and primaries BT.709. No HDR conversion is taking place.
The youtube-dl/SVP are webm files and the HDR conversion is taking place (in madvr).



If anyone has any links of the two types of 4K (HDR and SDR) files that would make the process easier, please post.
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post #3634 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I have and it makes no difference.

Looking at the videos on the Shield gives me a true 4K feeling with great depth of field. Even my Oppo 103D upscaling 1080 content looks better then what I am getting with 4K material and MadVR at the moment.

Using DSPlayer with MadVR gives me better tone mapping but the image just looks out of focus and has no depth of field. It looks like a bad 1080 movie with no upscaling.
Try all image enhancements under processing with a value of 2.0. It's overkill, but you should see a difference at least.

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post #3635 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
Try all image enhancements under processing with a value o 2.0. It's overkill, but you should see a difference at least.
I have and it makes the picture supper sharp but still out of focus at the same time.
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post #3636 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I have and it makes the picture supper sharp but still out of focus at the same time.
My guess is that the DSPlayer does something. There are no such problems with MPC-HC.

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post #3637 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
My guess is that the DSPlayer does something. There are no such problems with MPC-HC.
I have tried that as well and it is no better. Seeing that I am the only one having a problem it kind of points me to something to do with my computer.

Have a look at the attached picture. I have circled the face and to me it looks very soft and out of focus and that is what I am seeing on all the 4K files while they are playing.

I have watched all those episodes on nexflix on my PS4 Pro and they looked better then this.
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post #3638 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I have tried that as well and it is no better. Seeing that I am the only one having a problem it kind of points me to something to do with my computer.

Have a look at the attached picture. I have circled the face and to me it looks very soft and out of focus and that is what I am seeing on all the 4K files while they are playing.

I have watched all those episodes on nexflix on my PS4 Pro and they looked better then this.
Netflix PQ is not the best. You should only judge PQ on 4K UHD rips.

P.S.: The above picture shows that you are upscaling to 4K. I thought the problem occurs only with native 4K.

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post #3639 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I mean do you have a laptop/tablet to look at the screenshots made? From the screenshots on my monitor I can't really tell what is wrong. Maybe my eye is not trained enough.

A test between a 4K with HDR and 4K without HDR of the same file could maybe help:
Go to Youtube, find any 4K HDR clip that you think might be a good test.
Something like this is ok?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFkpxAa4BqU

Youtube stores 4K (2160p) versions with and without HDR.
Note: the 4K SDR version (of the 4K HDR version) is the HDR>SDR converted to SDR. The difference is the color gamut. The colors may looks wrong (on some videos) because YT has a poor method of HDR>SDR conversion. Everything else should be the same between the two versions, although I'm not 100% sure if the conversion affects sharpness/focus. It does not on my setup.




Accessing these can be done via youtube-dl. If you're unfamiliar with youtube-dl or is too complicated there a software called SVP which is primarily an interpolation software, but it comes with a component called SVP Tube. It has a 30 day trial. There may be other software but I'm not familiar with what can do the same thing.

If you get SVP, just open the program and in the right lower side there should be a red square with a white arrow, just like in the screenshot. Open a browser window with the video you're trying to download, copy the url, and SVPtube should pop up. Select the version, and click the down arrow right of the Play button and click download.

With 4K Video Downloader both the 4K SDR and HDR can be downloaded as mkv's, but the HDR version in OSD says matrix BT.2020 and primaries BT.709. No HDR conversion is taking place.
The youtube-dl/SVP are webm files and the HDR conversion is taking place (in madvr).



If anyone has any links of the two types of 4K (HDR and SDR) files that would make the process easier, please post.
I will have a look at the above but lets see if I can show kind of what I am talking about. Not sure if this will translate properly or not. Here are two phots:

1) This is from lost in space - I have circled the face as to me it is very soft and out of focus. Not what I should be seeing with 4K content but that is what is happening and how all 4K content is currently looking.

2) Here is a photo I took at Fenway. To me this looks sharp and has lots of depth and what I see with 4K movies on the Shield.

This may not come across well in photos but let me know.
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post #3640 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I have tried that as well and it is no better. Seeing that I am the only one having a problem it kind of points me to something to do with my computer.

Have a look at the attached picture. I have circled the face and to me it looks very soft and out of focus and that is what I am seeing on all the 4K files while they are playing.

I have watched all those episodes on nexflix on my PS4 Pro and they looked better then this.
Yes Netflix material is not great but yet still better then I can get with 4K material and MadVR.

The photo from Lost in Space was supplied by Markmon1 and I think it is just a low bit rate video. I was just using it to try and illustrate what I am seeing on 4K content through MadVR, a soft looking picture/ out of focus.
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post #3641 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
Yes Netflix material is not great but yet still better then I can get with 4K material and MadVR.

The photo from Lost in Space was supplied by Markmon1 and I think it is just a low bit rate video. I was just using it to try and illustrate what I am seeing on 4K content through MadVR, a soft looking picture/ out of focus.
I think madVR is not at fault here. Your expectation of how 4K UHD should look is probably unrealistic. You shouldn't compare a 4K photographed picture with a 4K transfer of a movie (Guardians Of The Galaxy, Avengers Infinity War) mastered from a 2K digital intermediate. Picture quality varies wildly depending on the movie. At least try with movies mastered from a 4K DI.

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post #3642 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I will have a look at the above but lets see if I can show kind of what I am talking about. Not sure if this will translate properly or not. Here are two phots:

1) This is from lost in space - I have circled the face as to me it is very soft and out of focus. Not what I should be seeing with 4K content but that is what is happening and how all 4K content is currently looking.

2) Here is a photo I took at Fenway. To me this looks sharp and has lots of depth and what I see with 4K movies on the Shield.

This may not come across well in photos but let me know.
You wrote on the previous page that the issue might be with the HDR conversion, so this will eliminate one factor.

Those two pictures are not really the same, but I can see what you are talking about.
Do the 4K lost in space files look sharper on the shield?


Some of these may not be on the mark, but everything should be tried:
Are there any codecs installed?
Anything in MPC>Options>External filters?
Are you using lav filters?
Are all the boxes ticked in lav video?
I know I asked this before, but what are the settings in nvidia control panel>Video>Adjust video image settings?
Deleting and reinstalling madvr at this point is worth doing.
Connecting the GPU to the projector could work.
Some HDMI cables exist that can have an effect on sharpness, but I don't think this is the case.


UHD does not really need sharpening, however here are some settings:
processing>image enhancements:
sharpen edges 1.1
enhance detail 1.1
LumaSharpen 1.15
activate anti-ringing filter - clicked
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post #3643 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimi123 View Post
I think madVR is not at fault here. Your expectation of how 4K UHD should look is probably unrealistic. You shouldn't compare a 4K photographed picture with a 4K transfer of a movie (Guardians Of The Galaxy, Avengers Infinity War) mastered from a 2K digital intermediate. Picture quality varies wildly depending on the movie. At least try with movies mastered from a 4K DI.
Agreed, just trying to show there is a night and day difference between the 2 pictures. That is how big of a difference there currently is between the Shield and DSPlayer with Kodi.
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post #3644 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:21 AM
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You wrote on the previous page that the issue might be with the HDR conversion, so this will eliminate one factor.

Those two pictures are not really the same, but I can see what you are talking about.
Do the 4K lost in space files look sharper on the shield?


Some of these may not be on the mark, but everything should be tried:
Are there any codecs installed? Not sure, I haven't loaded any that I am aware of
Anything in MPC>Options>External filters? There are lots of options but I switch back between EVR and MadVR
Are you using lav filters? I have not loaded any of these. Should I? Just using what ever is in Kodi
Are all the boxes ticked in lav video? Would have to check
I know I asked this before, but what are the settings in nvidia control panel>Video>Adjust video image settings? Have it outputting to 3840 x 2160 at 23hz and practically everything shut off in the nvidia control panel
Deleting and reinstalling madvr at this point is worth doing. I have done this 3 times
Connecting the GPU to the projector could work. This I have yet to try
Some HDMI cables exist that can have an effect on sharpness, but I don't think this is the case.


UHD does not really need sharpening, however here are some settings:
processing>image enhancements:
sharpen edges 1.1
enhance detail 1.1
LumaSharpen 1.15

activate anti-ringing filter - clicked

Have tried all the above with no luck
Tried to answer all the questions above. Normally when I watch 4K content on the Shield I have Enhancement on 4 as any less I think the picture looks soft. But I understand this is a preference thing.
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post #3645 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:25 AM
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time to guess less and do more proper comparison.

to take screen shoots on a PC you should remember control+print/alt+print you can then put it into an image program like paint using control +v you should not use control F5 this will use a specail madVR API and doesn't always give you the same image as shown on the screen.
the next steps is to take the current release version of madVR and to compare the same frame control + arrow keys let you do this.

all i can say it that the screens i have watched in this thread don't look like they are worth there resolution what so ever but it's not like i know how it should look.

and be clear is this only an issue in dsplayer?
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post #3646 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:40 AM
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time to guess less and do more proper comparison.

to take screen shoots on a PC you should remember control+print/alt+print you can then put it into an image program like paint using control +v you should not use control F5 this will use a specail madVR API and doesn't always give you the same image as shown on the screen.
the next steps is to take the current release version of madVR and to compare the same frame control + arrow keys let you do this.

all i can say it that the screens i have watched in this thread don't look like they are worth there resolution what so ever but it's not like i know how it should look.

and be clear is this only an issue in dsplayer?
This happens in DSPlayer as well has MPC-HC. That is why I think its something to do with my computer system

I am not guessing and those screen shots are exactly what I am seeing during playback. The material looks soft and just out of focus.

I am confident that all the members currently trying to help out know what a good 4K video should look like and the pictures I have attached are not right. The are soft and out of focus and very close to what I am seeing while the video is playing.


E
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post #3647 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:45 AM
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the guess is aimed at "try this random thing".
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post #3648 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:53 AM
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the guess is aimed at "try this random thing".
Got it.

The only issue I thought I would have with MadVR was adjusting the settings for the DTM. I never thought that this type of issue would be present.
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post #3649 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 11:57 AM
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i'm pretty sure there is no issue but that's how you find out.
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post #3650 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 12:00 PM
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i'm pretty sure there is no issue but that's how you find out.
I have been troubleshooting for over 20 hours. There is an issue some where. Lol

No one would ever use MadVR if they saw what I was getting. I know that’s not normal and there is either a setting that I have messed up or it’s my computer system itself.
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post #3651 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 03:56 PM
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I would suggest to reset MadVR to its default values, and configure everything from the start, instead of trying to understand what the current problem is.
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post #3652 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 05:20 PM
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I would say neither video looked all that great. The clothes in the shot seem to look like they are in focus but the faces look like they are totally out of focus in both videos.

Kind of weird and not sure if that makes sense to you?
To me, those photos above all looked good. Can you take a photo of how it looks on the shield on the same scenes? It could be just that the shield has some sharpening processing that you like. If that's the case you could turn that on in madVR also which would do it even better.

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post #3653 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 08:13 PM
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Question, anyone know if ZoomPlayer can automatically change the refresh rate of the graphics card to match the content, eg. 24hz vs 60hz?
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post #3654 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 08:17 PM
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I have a Harmony Ultimate remote. What do I need to add to my computer so I can control Kodi with the remote instead of a keyboard and mouse?
Inteset Internal IR Receiver for Kodi and Other Media Applications on Any Motherboard Running Windows or Linux. Wakes from The Off State(S5). Model PC-IRS5-01 with External IR Extender Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VH02IZ2..._7jnYDb8AQG1MF

Worked perfect for me
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post #3655 of 3794 Old 11-10-2019, 10:32 PM
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Question, anyone know if ZoomPlayer can automatically change the refresh rate of the graphics card to match the content, eg. 24hz vs 60hz?
madVR can and it supports madVR so yes doable.

@markmon1
just wait for the comparison screen.
that's mostly the reason for but still we will know with the next screen.
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post #3656 of 3794 Old 11-11-2019, 10:29 PM
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Hi. I'm a total noob with all of this. I just installed madVR and i'm trying to figure out the settings etc. I have a i7-8750H CPU and GTX 1050 4GB GPU. Basically i want to know what settings do i have to change to watch 480p 720p 1080p and 4k movies and how to create settings profiles for each of them. Sorry for my ignorance . Thanks
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post #3657 of 3794 Old 11-12-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by coxy2416 View Post
I would say neither video looked all that great. The clothes in the shot seem to look like they are in focus but the faces look like they are totally out of focus in both videos.

Kind of weird and not sure if that makes sense to you?
To me, those photos above all looked good. Can you take a photo of how it looks on the shield on the same scenes? It could be just that the shield has some sharpening processing that you like. If that's the case you could turn that on in madVR also which would do it even better.
How do i take pictures on the Shield? There is currently no keyboard or mouse hooked up to it. I just use my harmony remote for the Shield.

What are the chances that the gigabyte 2060 card that I have could be causing my issues?

I mean just everything doesn’t look all that great. Even watching a YouTube clip isn’t all that stellar through a web browser. YouTube clips are much better on both the Shield and PS4.
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post #3658 of 3794 Old 11-12-2019, 07:55 AM
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I would suggest to reset MadVR to its default values, and configure everything from the start, instead of trying to understand what the current problem is.
Ok, is there a default reset in MadVR?

Pretty much everything was turned off but I did notice when I un-installed and reinstalled MadVR all my previous settings were still there.
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post #3659 of 3794 Old 11-12-2019, 08:51 AM
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Ok, is there a default reset in MadVR?
Please look on the madVR installation folder for a "restore default settings.bat" file.
I've never use it, but i assume it will reset madVR to its default settings.

If you're using MPC-HC/BE, i would also suggest to try the NVIDIA Profle Inspector tool, with an optimized profile for MPC-HC/BE, available here:
- https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...&postcount=151
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post #3660 of 3794 Old 11-12-2019, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CerviInVI View Post
Hi. I'm a total noob with all of this. I just installed madVR and i'm trying to figure out the settings etc. I have a i7-8750H CPU and GTX 1050 4GB GPU. Basically i want to know what settings do i have to change to watch 480p 720p 1080p and 4k movies and how to create settings profiles for each of them. Sorry for my ignorance . Thanks
This is where you want to start, all your info is there.
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

You will be very limited on the quality settings with a 1050, it may do a little but not too much. Maybe someone knows what you can use.

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