Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 126 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3751 of 3776 Old 11-23-2019, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tygeezy View Post
So these tweaks definitely helped and it’️s reduced my render time to around 9-12 ms. What’️s happening those is in getting some repeated frames. I’️m not getting any dropped frames, just repeated ones. If I run a movie for 15 minutes I’️ll probably get 4 repeated frames.

Ideally you have 0 dropped frames and 0 repeated frames through tan entire session no?

Is there anything I can do to get zero repeated frames?
I was getting a repeated frame every 3.8 minutes or so. I used CRU and imported Manni's custom resolution bin file. No more repeated frames. I don't know if his bin file was ever posted to this forum. I got it from another forum.
I can never get a custom resolution to stick with my setup- it always returns an error saying it cannot be saved. RS2000 with DCR lens, windows (and madvr) running at 4096x2160 x 23hz, gtx1070. Oh well.
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post #3752 of 3776 Old 11-23-2019, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I did not have a problem with the 92.17 build. I did not need any compromise settings. From test builds 108 to the current 112b, the Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality setting by itself adds over 10 ms to rendering times when turned Off. 30 ms when the compromise is enabled and over 40 when disabled.

I wonder if this option might use CPU resources or PCIe bandwith more extensively. I have a PCIe 2.0 motherboard and a low power Sandy Bridge i3 CPU with an RTX 2080 Super.

I will try the scale chroma separately compromise instead to see if that makes a difference.
Try switching between D3D11 and DXVA2 Copy back in Lav video to see if there is a bandwidth limitation.
Check the render times.
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post #3753 of 3776 Old 11-27-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
I can never get a custom resolution to stick with my setup- it always returns an error saying it cannot be saved. RS2000 with DCR lens, windows (and madvr) running at 4096x2160 x 23hz, gtx1070. Oh well.
Same thing here. This has gone from very buggy to impossible, I think it has to do with the (newer) Nvidia driver...I will try to revert back to an older version. One skipped frame every 2 minutes is quite bothersome and destroys to my eyes most of what madvr improves...too bad madshi seems to be unable to do anything sbout it.
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post #3754 of 3776 Old 11-29-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Try switching between D3D11 and DXVA2 Copy back in Lav video to see if there is a bandwidth limitation.
Check the render times.
I can't use DXVA2 Copy back without getting large numbers of dropped frames, even with Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality enabled.

With D3D11, after some other MadVR option tweaks, I now get 24-25 ms rendering times with Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality enabled. Disable the compromise and rendering times jump to over 40 ms. This is with test build 112b and the 436.48 Nvidia driver.

Even with this compromise, I am astounded by the picture quality that DTM with HSTM brings.

I get zero dropped frames. I get zero repeated frames after using CRU to import Manni's custom resolution that he shared.

I will leave it as is for now, and revisit the compromise issue after I upgrade the motherboard, CPU, and memory.

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Last edited by claw; 11-29-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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post #3755 of 3776 Old 11-29-2019, 04:01 PM
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Is the Gtx 1650 Super in the recommended section or Minimum?
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post #3756 of 3776 Old 11-29-2019, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
I can't use DXVA2 Copy back without getting large numbers of dropped frames, even with Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality enabled.

With D3D11, after some other MadVR option tweaks, I now get 24-25 ms rendering times with Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality enabled. Disable the compromise and rendering times jump to over 40 ms. This is with test build 112b and the 436.48 Nvidia driver.

Even with this compromise, I am astounded by the picture quality that DTM with HSTM brings.

I get zero dropped frames. I get zero repeated frames after using CRU to import Manni's custom resolution that he shared.

I will leave it as is for now, and revisit the compromise issue after I upgrade the motherboard, CPU, and memory.
I did not mean you should max out the settings.
Set it up with DXVA2 Copy Back where it does not drop frames and then switch to D3D11.

I had a similar issue where a faulty CPU was keeping the GPU locked at 1x and was having issues with DTM.

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Originally Posted by xoninhas12 View Post
Is the Gtx 1650 Super in the recommended section or Minimum?
Minimum card depends on what madvr is doing.
If using DTM, a 1070 or higher would be a good start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellaseni View Post
Question regarding Gpus

With Black Friday coming soon . For madvr is the difference between a 2070 super vs a 2080 regular major? In gaming it is not but I am not sure for mad vr

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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
The performance between the cards would be noticeable with madVR, but it might not be necessary to have the additional rendering performance depending on your desired settings.
Here is guide on madvr:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

If you already have a PC try the features and see what you're interested in.
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post #3757 of 3776 Old 11-30-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I did not mean you should max out the settings.
Set it up with DXVA2 Copy Back where it does not drop frames and then switch to D3D11.

I had a similar issue where a faulty CPU was keeping the GPU locked at 1x and was having issues with DTM.
If I set Chroma upscaling to NGU Low, I can turn off all Compromises and get 30 ms rendering times. NGU Medium and I get dropped frames and 40 ms rendering.

So is Chroma upscaling NGU Low with no compromises a better option than NGU High and Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality?

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post #3758 of 3776 Old 11-30-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by claw View Post
If I set Chroma upscaling to NGU Low, I can turn off all Compromises and get 30 ms rendering times. NGU Medium and I get dropped frames and 40 ms rendering.

So is Chroma upscaling NGU Low with no compromises a better option than NGU High and Compromise on HDR luminance channel quality?
You're a better judge since are there and can see the picture.

But yes, the Chroma NGU low setup seems like a better solution.

There are other features that can be disabled/enabled: ringing artifacts, compression artifacts, dithering (ordered dithering takes less than diffusion 1 or 2).
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post #3759 of 3776 Old 11-30-2019, 09:34 PM
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If I set Chroma upscaling to NGU Low, I can turn off all Compromises and get 30 ms rendering times. NGU Medium and I get dropped frames and 40 ms rendering.
Chroma NGU Low vs. Medium adds 10 ms rendering, that's very weird. It should be in a range of 1-2 ms.
There is a setting in Image upscaling->chroma which consumes lots of power and I always set to normal (Bicubic60 AR).
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post #3760 of 3776 Old 12-02-2019, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Here is guide on madvr:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

If you already have a PC try the features and see what you're interested in.
You managed to reply to the author of that very tutorial!
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post #3761 of 3776 Old 12-02-2019, 07:34 AM
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You managed to reply to the author of that very tutorial!
It's clear the quotes and comments were part of a response to xoninhas12's question about the suitability of the GTX1650.
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post #3762 of 3776 Old Today, 07:29 AM
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Omg I am so confused about all this lol my htpc is almost done and I have no idea if I did a good build and trying to understand how to tweak madvr is just crazy lol
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post #3763 of 3776 Old Today, 08:13 AM
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Omg I am so confused about all this lol my htpc is almost done and I have no idea if I did a good build and trying to understand how to tweak madvr is just crazy lol

What is the build?

It depends what you want to do with madvr.

There is a full madvr guide:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

The support thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...thread-60.html
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post #3764 of 3776 Old Today, 08:19 AM
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What is the build?

It depends what you want to do with madvr.

There is a full madvr guide:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

The support thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...thread-60.html


My build is
B450 pro WiFi mobo
Ryzen 5 2600 cpu
Sapphire nitro + rx580 gpu
16gb ram
Tv Samsung Nu658000

I was just looking at that link and I think it made me more confused on how to configure it haha
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post #3765 of 3776 Old Today, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Aceman2101 View Post
My build is
B450 pro WiFi mobo
Ryzen 5 2600 cpu
Sapphire nitro + rx580 gpu
16gb ram
Tv Samsung Nu658000

I was just looking at that link and I think it made me more confused on how to configure it haha
The GPU is the minimum required if you want to use madvr's Dynamic tone mapping.
If not, it's fine.

Just read the guide and add the features you're interested. Test them as well to see what looks ok.
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post #3766 of 3776 Old Today, 08:34 AM
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The GPU is the minimum required if you want to use madvr's Dynamic tone mapping.
If not, it's fine.

Just read the guide and add the features you're interested. Test them as well to see what looks ok.


Sorry but what is to e mapping for ?
How much will this affect my ability to get the best out of my 4K hdr playback.
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post #3767 of 3776 Old Today, 08:49 AM
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Sorry but what is to e mapping for ?
How much will this affect my ability to get the best out of my 4K hdr playback.
Most of this information is noted in the guide:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...949#pid2238949

madvr DMT is still being developed, so the guide might not be up to date on it. But it's a good start.

I don't have a HDR TV and have limited knowledge on this issue.
Some people use madvr's DMT for HDR TV's, others don't. Please post on the madvr thread for further clarification.
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post #3768 of 3776 Old Today, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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The hdr section of that guide is not up-to-date, but you can simply go through the other sections, read the introduction and then the recommendations provided at the end. It is up to you to pick and choose what settings to use based on your own tastes and find settings that fit within the limits of your graphics card.

I already started rewriting the hdr section offline, but it will take me some time to organize and edit what is there as the development process has gone on for eternity and tends to move at a snail's pace. In some future update, I was going to add a quick checklist of things to do when first getting started with pixel shader tone mapping that would link to any necessary sub-guides that should make first-time set up a little less confusing.

If you have projector, you will definitely want to use the pixel shader tone mapping as tone mapping is a critical component of watching HDR content on a projector. The current beta builds are quite a bit better than the last official build, but the current official build will still provide a good result.

If you have an LED HDR TV with local dimming or an OLED HDR TV, you might not need or benefit from the tone mapping as much. The option "output video in HDR format" in the last official build is broken and shouldn't be used at all. That is the option you would want to use with a true HDR TV.
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post #3769 of 3776 Old Today, 10:23 AM
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Hope this isn’t too far off topic but is there a way to set MadVR that allows me to use black bar detection at the start of the movie (maybe first 30 seconds or so until the production graphics are finished) to then set my projector’s screen setting and then not change it again for the rest of the movie?

I am running DSPlayer and have a 2.0:1 screen. I use three screen settings for >=1.9:1, between 1.9:1 and 16:9, and for <=16:9. The way I have it works if the top and bottom black bars shrink during a movie - then the setting doesn’t change. But if the top and bottom black bars get bigger during a movie MadVR sends a signal to the projector to adjust the screen setting which I don’t want it to do.

So basically I want MadVR to tell my projector what setting to use at the start and then don’t change it again. Any help would be much appreciated.


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post #3770 of 3776 Old Today, 11:36 AM
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That is the option you would want to use with a true HDR TV.
Hi.
I'm still using a 65JS8500. I assume this is a "true" HDR TV. I don't understand what a false HDR TV would be unless you mean it simply isn't capable of HDR mode? I'm accustomed to using 'passthrough to display' rather than 'pixel shaders' with the 'output video in HDR format' setting within pixel shaders technique provided using madVR v0.92.17.

Should there be a clear benefit for me if I switched once the broken setting is fixed (or update to a test build now) considering it's 65"?

Thanks.

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post #3771 of 3776 Old Today, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Hope this isn’t too far off topic but is there a way to set MadVR that allows me to use black bar detection at the start of the movie (maybe first 30 seconds or so until the production graphics are finished) to then set my projector’s screen setting and then not change it again for the rest of the movie?

I am running DSPlayer and have a 2.0:1 screen. I use three screen settings for >=1.9:1, between 1.9:1 and 16:9, and for <=16:9. The way I have it works if the top and bottom black bars shrink during a movie - then the setting doesn’t change. But if the top and bottom black bars get bigger during a movie MadVR sends a signal to the projector to adjust the screen setting which I don’t want it to do.

So basically I want MadVR to tell my projector what setting to use at the start and then don’t change it again. Any help would be much appreciated.


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I don't think I understand what options you have enabled. Are you having madVR change lens memories or screen profiles in screen config, or both?
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post #3772 of 3776 Old Today, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi.
I'm still using a 65JS8500. I assume this is a "true" HDR TV. I don't understand what a false HDR TV would be unless you mean it simply isn't capable of HDR mode? I'm accustomed to using 'passthrough to display' rather than 'pixel shaders' with the 'output video in HDR format' setting within pixel shaders technique provided using madVR v0.92.17.

Should there be a clear benefit for me if I switched once the broken setting is fixed (or update to a test build now) considering it's 65"?

Thanks.
Your TV can output >500 nits, so it could be considered a true HDR display. To properly represent the small specular highlights in HDR movies, it is better to have a display that has full-array local dimming or an emissive display technology such as an OLED to isolate the specular highlights from the background elements and make them appear brighter. So I was referring to those displays in particular as "true HDR displays."

The new tone mapping is worth using with any HDR display. Brighter HDR displays see less visible benefit in most scenes, save those where a large portion of the screen space is taken up by very bright highlights.

This 10,000 nits MaxCLL scene from the Spears & Munsil UHD HDR Benchmark disc shows what pixel shader tone mapping can do in the worse case scenario where many highlights are being clipped by the display's own static tone mapping:

LG C8's Static Tone Mapping
LG C8's Static Tone Mapping + madVR's Dynamic Tone Mapping

Those results would vary by display.
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post #3773 of 3776 Old Today, 02:16 PM
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I don't think I understand what options you have enabled. Are you having madVR change lens memories or screen profiles in screen config, or both?


Just changing lens memories in screen config with profiles based on aspect ratios. I also have zoom control set up like in the image below, not sure if that affects it. Should I just add a profile rule for “if timestamp is <1min into the movie then set screen config...” - what would be the proper wording for that statement?




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post #3774 of 3776 Old Today, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If you are only interested in changing lens memories, you don't need zoom control at all.

Is it possible with your screen to use the widest zoom on the projector that fills the screen space and have zoom control downscale 16:9 videos to fit the same height as widescreen videos and crop any widescreen movies that are a little too large for the screen?

That is the simplest way to have madVR manage the aspect ratio changes -- with a fixed screen rectangle and variable image scaling per video.
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If you are only interested in changing lens memories, you don't need zoom control at all.



Is it possible with your screen to use the widest zoom on the projector that fills the screen space and have zoom control downscale 16:9 videos to fit the same height as widescreen videos and crop any widescreen movies that are a little too large for the screen?



That is the simplest way to have madVR manage the aspect ratio changes -- with a fixed screen rectangle and variable image scaling per video.


That does sound simpler than what I am doing. I need to use the zoom mode on the JVC to fill my screen side to side. Which zoom control settings do I check to have everything <2:1 scaled to the height of the screen so that 16:9 doesn’t end up cropped by the zoom mode on the JVC?


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post #3776 of 3776 Old Today, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Try following the zoom control settings at the bottom of this post labelled "Fixed Constant Image Height (CIH)":

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...958#pid2238958

- You need to create a 21:9 rectangle in screen config that is the exact aspect ratio of your screen with screen masking on the top and bottom.

- Then you create two profile in zoom control: One for 16:9 videos and one for 21:9 videos with automatic zooming and cropping.
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