Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 3072 Old 06-07-2017, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stef2 View Post
Thanks for the very precise answer!

I just replaced my GTX970 (4GB) with a GTX1060 (6GB). They both give me the exact same benchamark for 3D and 2D processing (passmark Performance Test 9). That's a little disappoinging, considering my GTX970 is more than 2 years old.

So if both cards support HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2 and have the same benchmarked performance, this is useless upgrade... Unless the GTX1060 performs significantly better when decoding H.265 files. My system can play H.265 files with any of the two cards, but I guess the CPU must do all of the decoding job with my GTX970?
you need a server CPU to decode high bit deep HEVC so there is no way around.
the madVR persofrmance is about the same with these cards.


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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
The 950 and 960 have full HEVC hardware decoding and HDCP 2.2 because they use GM206, the final Maxwell GPU design. All other 900-series cards use the older GM108, GM200, and GM204 GPUs, which did not have those in their GPU design. All 1000-series cards have the hardware for UHD displays and content.
did i said something different?
there is a 750 ti with a HEVC decoder called the 750 ti v2.
there are differences in the 1000 series too which matters for UHD playback.
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post #362 of 3072 Old 06-07-2017, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you need a server CPU to decode high bit deep HEVC so there is no way around.
the madVR persofrmance is about the same with these cards.




did i said something different?
there is a 750 ti with a HEVC decoder called the 750 ti v2.
there are differences in the 1000 series too which matters for UHD playback.
You are referring to the GeForce 750 SE, which was only reported as a rumor. There was no revised 750 TI with GM206 that ever hit the streets. The rumored 750 SE was later transformed in the rumor mill to end up as the 950 SE or LE, which never materialized either. Only three video card designs ever used the GM206 GPU and those were the GeForce 950/960 and Quadro M2000, which did not have HDMI 2.0 but had four DP 1.2 outputs because it was a card for professional applications.
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post #363 of 3072 Old 06-07-2017, 11:40 AM
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it had the same 750 name it it is not a rumor it is out there on the streets in low numbers. most likely again for the chines market and it doesn't matter.
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post #364 of 3072 Old 06-07-2017, 04:46 PM
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easily.
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post #365 of 3072 Old 06-08-2017, 03:43 AM
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any true 400 watt power supply should be fine and there are passive ones.

you can't do anything wrong with a super flower leadex wither and your old one should be fine too.
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post #366 of 3072 Old 06-08-2017, 08:31 PM
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i don't know about the noise of each 1060 but they are totally fine too.

i personally have a 1060.
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post #367 of 3072 Old 06-12-2017, 04:36 PM
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i would never take a 3 GB 1060.
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post #368 of 3072 Old 06-15-2017, 07:24 PM
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I am comparing the performance of two video cards tonight: a GTX1060 and a GTX1070.

I was having a lot of trouble getting the GTX1070 play nicely some of the 4K UHD 25fps clips I have (H265). Rendering time was close to 200ms no matter what I did.

But then, I changed the decoder setting in MPC-HC from CUVID to DXVA2 (native or copy-back, the difference was almost the same): rendering time immediately went from 200ms to 26ms, everything else unchanged. Why such a huge difference?

When I play normal 1080p bluray rips (H264), switching between CUVID and DXVA2 makes almost difference. Why is it so?
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post #369 of 3072 Old 06-15-2017, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberto Hernández View Post
Ok, I have the 1060 now, the card deals with 4k content just ok without any enhance options like sharpen, dithering, debanding, etc.. but it will drop frames like crazy if I activate any of those... what a bummer. Upscalling 1080p content to 4k is amazing with all those options and ngu, and I dare to say that it looks much better than true 4k content (without any enhance options) on some movies.

But I'm happy overall, it does what I wanted, its able to upscale without any trouble.

Thanks!
I am comparing the 1060 and the 1070 right now. I can play 4k HDR H.265 files using chroma upscaling at NGU sharp high easily with the 1070 (rendering time of 37ms) but rendering time goes up to 60ms with the same setting on the 1060. Even with NGU sharp low, rendering time is too slow (44ms) on the 1060.

That is using DXVA2, because with CUVID, rendering time is almost 4 times longer (unusable, no matter the card). Are you using CUVID?
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post #370 of 3072 Old 06-16-2017, 05:16 AM
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CUVID requires a solid, newer PC. It is GPU memory-intensive and does not work well on older low-bandwidth hardware that can't keep the GPU fed. The new NVDECODE API hasn't been worked into media players yet, because it just came out, but that replaces the old CUVID decoding process by building on CUDA processes and combining it with the new decoding hardware built into the 1000-series.
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post #371 of 3072 Old 06-16-2017, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
CUVID requires a solid, newer PC. It is GPU memory-intensive and does not work well on older low-bandwidth hardware that can't keep the GPU fed. The new NVDECODE API hasn't been worked into media players yet, because it just came out, but that replaces the old CUVID decoding process by building on CUDA processes and combining it with the new decoding hardware built into the 1000-series.
that could be the explanation for what I have observed. My video card is new (1070) but my pc is 3 years old.
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post #372 of 3072 Old 06-16-2017, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
CUVID requires a solid, newer PC. It is GPU memory-intensive and does not work well on older low-bandwidth hardware that can't keep the GPU fed. The new NVDECODE API hasn't been worked into media players yet, because it just came out, but that replaces the old CUVID decoding process by building on CUDA processes and combining it with the new decoding hardware built into the 1000-series.
The latest version of LAVFilters - 0.70:

- NEW: CUVID support for VP9 8/10-bit and HEVC 10/12-bit decoding

But, DXVA is probably as good or better.
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post #373 of 3072 Old 06-16-2017, 05:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
CUVID requires a solid, newer PC. It is GPU memory-intensive and does not work well on older low-bandwidth hardware that can't keep the GPU fed. The new NVDECODE API hasn't been worked into media players yet, because it just came out, but that replaces the old CUVID decoding process by building on CUDA processes and combining it with the new decoding hardware built into the 1000-series.
I tried coding CUVID support into a VR video app last year and it was total garbage, I guess they fixed it.
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post #374 of 3072 Old 06-18-2017, 01:20 PM
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Does the newer technology in current CPU's matter more than the performance? I ask this because I have a E5-2650 v2 that gets a 13k passmark, and i'd love to re-purpose it for a HTPC.
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post #375 of 3072 Old 06-18-2017, 07:52 PM
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depends on what you are going to do.
subtitle rendering may needs a lot of single thread performance.
CPU instruction may help for copyback operation but even with older hardware copyback is kind of free.

and don't waste your time with CUVID i mean wow they renamed it...
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post #376 of 3072 Old 06-18-2017, 09:10 PM
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In madVR Scaling algorithms, what is exactly the differences between DXVA and others ones ? On my i5 system, DXVA seems to run with the minimum load required for non-dropped frames.
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post #377 of 3072 Old 06-19-2017, 07:28 AM
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playback of UHD discs

I am intending to set-up a (relatively) high-end PCHC which I would like to use for playback of UHD discs and files (MPC-HC/MadVR).
The set-up would be as follows:

MB: ASRock Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-ITX/ac
UC: kaby lake i7-7700
VC: Nvidia 1080Ti
RAM 8 GO
Player: Pioneer BDR-S11J-X
SSD 256Go

I tried to be compliant with Intel SGX, HDCP 2.2 and HDMI specs to be able to play AACS 2.0 discs.
output is JVC 7500.

Would that work like a charm? Any comment / advice welcome.
Many thanks
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post #378 of 3072 Old 06-19-2017, 07:38 AM
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When using MPC-HC/madVR, you can only play unprotected content. Atm, AACS 2.0 discs can only be played through licensed players like PowerDVD.

So basically in order to use madVR, you have to rip your discs first, or use some other method to unprotect the discs. Unfortunately for UHD Blu-Ray there's no solution for ripping available just yet, but it's probably only a matter of time.

If you're willing to use PowerDVD as long as ripping UHD Blu-Ray isn't available yet, then it makes sense to aim for Intel SGX etc compatability. However, if you plan to only use madVR, then Intel SGX and HDCP are of no consequence.

The 1080Ti sure is a powerful GPU. Using that will allow you to use very high quality upscaling algorithms when playing 1080p Blu-Rays. Truth be told, probably a 1070 would already suffice. Or even a 1050, if you can live with some small compromises. But then, if you have the money, having some extra GPU headroom might come in useful for future madVR algorithms.
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post #379 of 3072 Old 06-19-2017, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
In madVR Scaling algorithms, what is exactly the differences between DXVA and others ones ? On my i5 system, DXVA seems to run with the minimum load required for non-dropped frames.
the DXVA scaler is a scaler provided by your GPU/GPU driver.

it's usually pretty bad compared to the other scalers but it is fast on the other hand.
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post #380 of 3072 Old 06-21-2017, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 647830 View Post
I am intending to set-up a (relatively) high-end PCHC which I would like to use for playback of UHD discs and files (MPC-HC/MadVR).
The set-up would be as follows:

MB: ASRock Fatal1ty Z270 Gaming-ITX/ac
UC: kaby lake i7-7700
VC: Nvidia 1080Ti
RAM 8 GO
Player: Pioneer BDR-S11J-X
SSD 256Go

I tried to be compliant with Intel SGX, HDCP 2.2 and HDMI specs to be able to play AACS 2.0 discs.
output is JVC 7500.

Would that work like a charm? Any comment / advice welcome.
Many thanks
It does not work like a charm until you install the Intel SGX driver in Windows 10; make sure the ASRock bios has SGX enabled as well. The FAQ at the Fatal1ty site has the details. The SGX piece only works with the on-board Intel Graphics, so the Nvidia is pointless if your only goal is 4k disc playback with PowerDVD. If 4K playback is your only goal pickup an Oppo or Panasonic 4K BD player and call it a day. OTOH, if you like to tinker I imagine Madshi is correct. It is only a matter of time the ability for the average non-pirate to rip their 4K BD becomes a reality.

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post #381 of 3072 Old 06-22-2017, 07:27 AM
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Guys,
is it possible to use any fancy OSD with bells and whistles with madVR in fullscreen D3D11 10bit mode?
Are you using any external OSD at all? Any advice/recommendations?
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post #382 of 3072 Old 06-22-2017, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Guys,
is it possible to use any fancy OSD with bells and whistles with madVR in fullscreen D3D11 10bit mode?
Are you using any external OSD at all? Any advice/recommendations?
Kodi DSPlayer has a fancy integrated OSD. If you are looking for overlays that show the time remaining, plot info, etc.
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post #383 of 3072 Old 06-23-2017, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Kodi DSPlayer has a fancy integrated OSD. If you are looking for overlays that show the time remaining, plot info, etc.
Yes, exactly. Thanks! Will try it.

Any chance similar OSD could be configured for MPC-HC/BE?
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post #384 of 3072 Old 06-23-2017, 11:05 AM
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My wife and I own a pile of DVD movies, many of which we bought in the 1990s and many of which fully exploited the limits of what that format could do. Unfortunately, many of those movies have no BD counterpart.

We do not yet own a high-horsepower HTPC, so I can only wonder what such a system running MadVR might be capable of doing when upscaling these best-quality DVDs to 1080p.

In order to give me some point of reference, how does the on-screen PQ of such a DVD, from such a high-horsepower system exploiting MadVR to its maximum capability, compare to that put on the screen of the same movie on BD played by a good-quality stand-alone BD player? Does it come close, or is this "mission impossible" for any HTPC?

Thanks.
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post #385 of 3072 Old 06-23-2017, 11:58 AM
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Actually, no stand-alone BD player comes close to madVR upscaling quality, AFAIK. At least I can say that madVR's upscaling is dramatically better than the Sony Reality Creation in my 4K LCD TV.
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post #386 of 3072 Old 06-23-2017, 01:43 PM
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(cross-post from Doom9's MadVR thread)
To all 1080 (non-Ti) users:

Can you guys play the LG 4K HDR demos at the link below without frame drops using a 1080 and Madvr at 60p? I'm using LAV video decoder with DXVA-CB HW decoding enabled for UHD and HEVC but I'm still getting frame drops. These files are 4K HEVC with HDR @59.94fps but I'm sure the 1080 can handle it?

MadVR - chroma upscaling = Bilinear, dithering = ED2, FSE D3D11 (required for HDR), nothing else enabled
Nvidia driver 378.92
Windows 10 64bit Anniversary Edition (1607)

http://demo-uhd3d.com/categorie.php?tag=hdr

My ArgyllCMS/MadVR 3DLUT Creation Workflow
My Sharp Elite Movie THX AV Mode Settings
--Aug 2011 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
--Nov 2012 Set, 2.2 gamma [ link ]
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post #387 of 3072 Old 06-23-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Actually, no stand-alone BD player comes close to madVR upscaling quality, AFAIK. At least I can say that madVR's upscaling is dramatically better than the Sony Reality Creation in my 4K LCD TV.
I should have been clearer. I'm not asking if a stand-alone BD player can upscale DVDs as well as MadVR can.

I'll be more specific.

I own the superbit DVD version of "Starship Troopers" (original disk, but also ripped), as well as the 1080p BD version of the same. Using a BD player to play the DVD and the BD, I can easily tell the difference between the two.

Can a supercomputer+MadVR combo make those superbit DVD files look as good on-screen as the image from the standalone player playing the BD (not the DVD) of the same movie? If not, how easy is it to see the difference when viewing from say 1X the display diagonal?

Thanks.
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post #388 of 3072 Old 06-24-2017, 12:30 AM
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There's no substitute for higher native resolution. For any decent Blu-Ray, there's no way a DVD upscale can possibly compete, regardless of how good the upscaling algorithm is. This is true today, and will still be true 20 years from now, with all the latest upscaling algos available then.

FWIW, there's a difference between edge quality and fine detail. madVR's best upscaling algo can often manage to get quite near to Blu-Ray for edge quality. But texture detail gets totally lost when an image is downscaled. There's no way to reconstruct texture detail because it's simply missing in the lower resolution video. There are some people trying to create neural networks to "guess" texture detail, but the results vary from decent to freakish nightmare hallucinations. Probably those neural networks will get better some day, but there's no replacement for true resolution, and there will never be, IMHO.

How easy it is to see the difference depends on you. Some people might not even notice. For others it will be obvious.
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post #389 of 3072 Old 06-24-2017, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
There's no substitute for higher native resolution. For any decent Blu-Ray, there's no way a DVD upscale can possibly compete, regardless of how good the upscaling algorithm is. This is true today, and will still be true 20 years from now, with all the latest upscaling algos available then.

FWIW, there's a difference between edge quality and fine detail. madVR's best upscaling algo can often manage to get quite near to Blu-Ray for edge quality. But texture detail gets totally lost when an image is downscaled. There's no way to reconstruct texture detail because it's simply missing in the lower resolution video. There are some people trying to create neural networks to "guess" texture detail, but the results vary from decent to freakish nightmare hallucinations. Probably those neural networks will get better some day, but there's no replacement for true resolution, and there will never be, IMHO.

How easy it is to see the difference depends on you. Some people might not even notice. For others it will be obvious.
madshi, thanks very much.

I've read various posts in the projector forum about how well madVR upscales good 1080p movies to amazingly close to 4K quality. I thought it might also be true for DVD up to 1080p. I guess the leap for the latter is just too great.

Thanks again.
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post #390 of 3072 Old 06-24-2017, 07:53 AM
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Many 4K movies are barely better than the 1080p Blu-Ray in terms of resolution, because often the DI was made in 2K, or the film scan was lacking quality, or the digital camera used for shooting was too low resolution. So there often isn't a whole lot of added pixel-level detail in 4K releases. There are exceptions, of course. And hopefully future 4K releases will get better.

DVD vs 1080p is such a big difference in resolution. We're talking about 720x480 vs 1920x1080. So FullHD has 6x as many pixels. And pretty much every studio master and scan has significantly higher resolution in it than 720x480.

So there's a world of a difference between DVD and 1080p, and (in terms of resolution at least) a much much smaller difference between 1080p and 4K. There's also the law of diminishing returns. Even if 4K had truly 4x as much detail as 1080p, the difference would be less obvious than the difference between DVD and 1080p.
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