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noob00224 05-25-2020 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59703812)
don't change lav filter settings they are set to these settings for a reason.
if you disable deint in lavfilter that's it you will not get deint for the simple reason madVR get the information that the source is progressive.
same for the dithering setting it'S not used with madVR the image is transferred bit perfect.

you are supposed to change the hardware decoder but that's about it. the other settings can be changed to but if you don't know what they do you are better of not touching them.

if you disable deint in madVR and madVR get's a interlaced signal that's it it's not getting deint.
and be careful there are 2 types of interlaced content it can be telecine too.
film mode is detelecine only it doesn't work on interlaced content.
and video mode is deinterlacing is works on everything but isn't perfect for everything.

the deinterlacer in madVR uses the GPU hardware deinterlacer so as long as that works deint in madVR is supposed to work.
the current state is nvidia has a bug that pretty no one of you will notice until i point it out.
intel is supposed to be "perfect" (no one to my knowable has tested this for a long time).
amd is well amd... it uses the lowest possible deinterlacing available to mankind bilinear bob in the past it was "perfect" this is a driver issue.

madVR goes to high length to avoid the damaging algorithm of the GPU driver they can be accessed with DXVA2 scaling.

For my setup, deinterlacing works separately both through LAV video (software or hardware), or madvr. Madvr deinterlacing works if it's disabled in LAV. Detinterlacing also works with a NTSC interlaced source with forced film mode (set in madvr).
LAV deinterlacing cannot do IVTC.

NVCP does not do deinterlancing or IVTC. This is what my question was primarily about, if the features in NVCP work or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by reebok (Post 59704346)
Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, please redirect me to a more appropriate place if needed.
I have an Epson 5040UBe and am trying to figure out calibration. I am using madVR with tone mapping, and it looks good, but I am looking at calibrating it with the files available on this forum (i.e. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...terns-set.html and https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...libration.html). What I am confused on is do I use SDR calibration (since the projector is in SDR mode) or HDR calibration (since i am using HDR through madVR). Thanks.

Use the SDR since madvr is converting HDR to SDR.
Also use this to set the gamma for HDR>SDR tone mapping:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&page=37

Set the real nits to the actual nits off the screen. If you don't have a colorimenter/light meter:
https://webprojectorcalculator.com/

mightyhuhn 05-25-2020 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noob00224 (Post 59704436)
For my setup, deinterlacing works separately both through LAV video (software or hardware), or madvr. Madvr deinterlacing works if it's disabled in LAV.

this is the option to disable or enable deint: https://abload.de/img/deintogjcc.png
the other deint option are not disabling or "enabling" deinterlacing they are doing deinterlacing or leave it up to the renderer.

Quote:

Detinterlacing also works with a NTSC interlaced source with forced film mode (set in madvr).
if the source is telecine not interlaced that's what it made for it can't work on normal interlaced content.

Quote:

LAV deinterlacing cannot do IVTC.
while i personally would agree technically cuvid(currently broken) can or hardware deinterlacer are ivtc able the result is still 60 fps. that's beats the point of it in my view but they do this by field matching which is considered IVTC.

Quote:

This is what my question was primarily about, if the features in NVCP work or not.
they do with DXVA2 scaling or at least they are supposed to.

noob00224 05-25-2020 11:35 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59704702)
this is the option to disable or enable deint: https://abload.de/img/deintogjcc.png
the other deint option are not disabling or "enabling" deinterlacing they are doing deinterlacing or leave it up to the renderer.


if the source is telecine not interlaced that's what it made for it can't work on normal interlaced content.


while i personally would agree technically cuvid(currently broken) can or hardware deinterlacer are ivtc able the result is still 60 fps. that's beats the point of it in my view but they do this by field matching which is considered IVTC.


they do with DXVA2 scaling or at least they are supposed to.

So madvr can't inverse telecine if the source is also interlaced? But the guide says:
force film mode
Forces inverse telecine (IVTC), reconstructing the original progressive frames from film (native 23.976 fps content) that was telecined to interlaced video, decimating duplicate frames if necessary. A source with a field rate of 59.94i would be converted to 23.976p under this method. Software (CPU) deinterlacing is used in this case.

The NVCP:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1590431414

Sounds like Deinterlacing with IVTC is supposed to convert say a 1080i 59.40fps to 1080p 24p.


I did try with MPC and VLC with the projector set at 23Hz/23.976fps, with sources at either 50/60i, but the image skipped frames.




If I wanted to test the IVTC of madvr/nvidia how do I know that the source video has been telecined? Where can I get a sample of a non interlaced telecined video?

mightyhuhn 05-25-2020 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noob00224 (Post 59705528)
So madvr can't inverse telecine if the source is also interlaced? But the guide says:
force film mode
Forces inverse telecine (IVTC), reconstructing the original progressive frames from film (native 23.976 fps content) that was telecined to interlaced video, decimating duplicate frames if necessary. A source with a field rate of 59.94i would be converted to 23.976p under this method. Software (CPU) deinterlacing is used in this case.


an interlaced sources doesn't have to be telecine because there are no progressive frames to restore. how do you ivtc a source with 60 FPS to 24? you don't.

it's a just naming issue all tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises.
all telecine streams are interlaced but not all interlaced streams are telecine.

madVR calls telecine Film and interlace Video.

Quote:

The NVCP:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/attac...1&d=1590431414

Sounds like Deinterlacing with IVTC is supposed to convert say a 1080i 59.40fps to 1080p 24p.
nvidia doesn't decimate they only field match it puts the original 24p in 60p but it recovers them.


Quote:

I did try with MPC and VLC with the projector set at 23Hz/23.976fps, with sources at either 50/60i, but the image skipped frames.
well how do you display 50 or 60 frames with 24 ?


Quote:

If I wanted to test the IVTC of madvr/nvidia how do I know that the source video has been telecined?
try and error. with experience you pretty much know this. a movie is usually telecine and a talk show is usually interlaced.
if film mode in madVR works it's either PsF(technically telecine too) or telecine else it's interlaced.
the madVR OSD show you the cadence.
Quote:

Where can I get a sample of a non interlaced telecined video?
https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples the VC-1 sample wrongly labeled as 29.970 hz thsi source is 60 fps so this is interlaced.
your test files seems to be telecine else film mode would not work.

interlaced broad cast is usually 30 fps which is a type of interlaced because you don't need a IVTC algo nor you need a deint algorithm and it can have 60 fps parts.

noob00224 05-26-2020 11:51 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59705960)
an interlaced sources doesn't have to be telecine because there are no progressive frames to restore. how do you ivtc a source with 60 FPS to 24? you don't.

it's a just naming issue all tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises.
all telecine streams are interlaced but not all interlaced streams are telecine.

madVR calls telecine Film and interlace Video.


nvidia doesn't decimate they only field match it puts the original 24p in 60p but it recovers them.



well how do you display 50 or 60 frames with 24 ?



try and error. with experience you pretty much know this. a movie is usually telecine and a talk show is usually interlaced.
if film mode in madVR works it's either PsF(technically telecine too) or telecine else it's interlaced.
the madVR OSD show you the cadence.


https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples the VC-1 sample wrongly labeled as 29.970 hz thsi source is 60 fps so this is interlaced.
your test files seems to be telecine else film mode would not work.

interlaced broad cast is usually 30 fps which is a type of interlaced because you don't need a IVTC algo nor you need a deint algorithm and it can have 60 fps parts.

Does IVTC work on 50i PAL sources that were originally 23.976? Is the PAL just sped up and Film mode slows it down or does it do some kind of inverse telecine?

Tried the VC-1 sample but still getting jumps. Set display to 23Hz/23.97, DXVA2 (copy back) in LAV. Also tried some PAL 50 which I think they were originally 24p, but the image jumps. Tried enabling/disabling IVTC from NVCP.

mightyhuhn 05-26-2020 01:58 PM

the VC-1 sample is mean to be played at 60 hz.
24 fps in 50 fps is super rare and i'm not aware of a realtime IVTC that can recover it so no you need to play it at 25/50 hz and your dvd files are either native 25 or speed up.

NV deint "always" needs 60 hz or 50 hz they are not decimating which is technically not needed to call an algorithm IVTC. it will judder with 60 hz sources.

noob00224 05-26-2020 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59711286)
the VC-1 sample is mean to be played at 60 hz.
24 fps in 50 fps is super rare and i'm not aware of a realtime IVTC that can recover it so no you need to play it at 25/50 hz and your dvd files are either native 25 or speed up.

NV deint "always" needs 60 hz or 50 hz they are not decimating which is technically not needed to call an algorithm IVTC. it will judder with 60 hz sources.

Is there somewhere where a telecined sample? Or are NTSC 60i DVDs that were originally 23.976 the only available material?

noob00224 05-27-2020 12:04 AM

From the nvidia forums:
these video controls are for D3D9 / D2D web browsers and applications using EVR presentation, madvr as presentation has its own sharpening and noise management settings.

What exactly is 2:2 cadence?

mightyhuhn 05-27-2020 01:02 AM

Quote:

From the nvidia forums:
these video controls are for D3D9 / D2D web browsers and applications using EVR presentation, madvr as presentation has its own sharpening and noise management settings.
again madVR can use it with DXVA2 scaling.

Quote:

What exactly is 2:2 cadence?
a misdetection happens often with true interlaced content, a progressive file that is flagged interlaced(pal telecine, 30 fps in ntsc telecine also called PsF (progressive segmented frames) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progre...egmented_frame) or very very rare examples where this is not from the same frame so every frame is combed which still needs a deinterlacer/detelecine algorithm to make it watchable this is technically not PsF but still 2:2.

it means every 2 fields make a frame followed by another 2 fields witch again make a frame 4 fields make 2 frames. with NTSC which has 60 fields you have 30 different frames in it. 3:2 means of 5 fields you get 2 frames that'S 24p when the source was 60i.

you are looking for a file with 3:2 cadence. i couldn't find a sample but these types of files are very very common mostly NTSC DVD with film as content or broadcast with film content. beware of soft and hard telecine depending on the decoder a soft telecine file maybe just outputted progressive at 24p by ignoring the repeated field flag.

annisman 05-27-2020 04:39 PM

Guys I have a really frustrating problem, I've set up my Harmony with my HTPC as a Microsoft Media PC SE. I want to be able to launch the tidal app from my desktop using my remote.

So first I go to the Tidal app properties and I go to set a shortcut but the options are very limited, almost all of them seem to be cntrl+alt+ 'x'

Where 'x' can be a number of different keys.

Absolutely none of them work when I map that command to my remote.

The only command that works for me right now via shortcut is Emby which I have mapped to shift+F10.

Maybe the remote has problems with shortcuts requiring more than two keys?

Can somebody please tell me how to configure this remote to get these hotkeys working.

noob00224 05-28-2020 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59713306)
again madVR can use it with DXVA2 scaling.


a misdetection happens often with true interlaced content, a progressive file that is flagged interlaced(pal telecine, 30 fps in ntsc telecine also called PsF (progressive segmented frames) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progre...egmented_frame) or very very rare examples where this is not from the same frame so every frame is combed which still needs a deinterlacer/detelecine algorithm to make it watchable this is technically not PsF but still 2:2.

it means every 2 fields make a frame followed by another 2 fields witch again make a frame 4 fields make 2 frames. with NTSC which has 60 fields you have 30 different frames in it. 3:2 means of 5 fields you get 2 frames that'S 24p when the source was 60i.

you are looking for a file with 3:2 cadence. i couldn't find a sample but these types of files are very very common mostly NTSC DVD with film as content or broadcast with film content. beware of soft and hard telecine depending on the decoder a soft telecine file maybe just outputted progressive at 24p by ignoring the repeated field flag.

Tried it with a 3:2 cadence file, it works.

What do you mean DXVA2 scaling?

Selected DXVA2 in image downscaling and upscaling, but switching the two options in NVCP at 100% and off made no difference in how the image looks. The poster on the nvidia forum said that it works for websites but I can't find a way to test it.

mightyhuhn 05-28-2020 04:01 AM

i'm on AMD currently and it doesn't work with madVR dxva2 scaling.
user where very happy after madshi found a way to bypass for it so it wasn't really tested anymore.

it should work if you use EVR.

markmon1 05-28-2020 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annisman (Post 59717264)
Guys I have a really frustrating problem, I've set up my Harmony with my HTPC as a Microsoft Media PC SE. I want to be able to launch the tidal app from my desktop using my remote.

So first I go to the Tidal app properties and I go to set a shortcut but the options are very limited, almost all of them seem to be cntrl+alt+ 'x'

Where 'x' can be a number of different keys.

Absolutely none of them work when I map that command to my remote.

The only command that works for me right now via shortcut is Emby which I have mapped to shift+F10.

Maybe the remote has problems with shortcuts requiring more than two keys?

Can somebody please tell me how to configure this remote to get these hotkeys working.

Does pressing ctrl+alt+x on a real keyboard launch the app? Verify that first. I've had no problem launching short cuts like that using flirc. What's on the windows side as the harmony receiver? Maybe you're better off getting an flirc for this to work. The flirc works with any remote and looks like a real keyboard to windows.

brazen1 05-28-2020 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by annisman (Post 59717264)
Guys I have a really frustrating problem, I've set up my Harmony with my HTPC as a Microsoft Media PC SE. I want to be able to launch the tidal app from my desktop using my remote.

So first I go to the Tidal app properties and I go to set a shortcut but the options are very limited, almost all of them seem to be cntrl+alt+ 'x'

Where 'x' can be a number of different keys.

Absolutely none of them work when I map that command to my remote.

The only command that works for me right now via shortcut is Emby which I have mapped to shift+F10.

Maybe the remote has problems with shortcuts requiring more than two keys?

Can somebody please tell me how to configure this remote to get these hotkeys working.

On your Harmony, install MCE Keyboard and/or MCE Keyboard SE as a device.

In Windows Start Menu, right click your app and select open file location. (this is going to navigate you to C:\Users\your name\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu and NOT to programs where it is installed)
Right click the app and select properties.
Select the shortcut tab.
Left click the shortcut box that says none.
Press the key on your remote that you want to launch the app and it will enter itself. (this is the key you can select from MCE Keyboard which is the same as your physical keyboard. Either will accomplish the shortcut)
Save and exit.

I do this for Harmony activities using many shortcuts. In other words, I press an activity and many, many, things start from that single press. Kodi is one of them for example and you could use your Tidal app just as easily.

noob00224 05-28-2020 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59718992)
i'm on AMD currently and it doesn't work with madVR dxva2 scaling.
user where very happy after madshi found a way to bypass for it so it wasn't really tested anymore.

it should work if you use EVR.

No visible difference in EVR, (browsers or anywhere else), but I don't use it so it doesn't matter.

mightyhuhn 05-28-2020 12:53 PM

tried it with AMD on EVR it works there. i will try nvidia later.

noob00224 05-28-2020 12:57 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59721642)
tried it with AMD on EVR it works there. i will try nvidia later.

I'm referring to the features in nvidia's panel, edge enhancement, noise reduction specifically. They can't also be in the AMD options (?).

mightyhuhn 05-28-2020 03:37 PM

they had the same. but now AMD has only one option. they both effect DXVA2 rendering like EVR and where supposed to work with DXVA2 scaling.

edit: just tested nvidia it works in madVR with DXVA2 scaling.

annisman 05-28-2020 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brazen1 (Post 59720286)
Quote:

Originally Posted by annisman (Post 59717264)
Guys I have a really frustrating problem, I've set up my Harmony with my HTPC as a Microsoft Media PC SE. I want to be able to launch the tidal app from my desktop using my remote.

So first I go to the Tidal app properties and I go to set a shortcut but the options are very limited, almost all of them seem to be cntrl+alt+ 'x'

Where 'x' can be a number of different keys.

Absolutely none of them work when I map that command to my remote.

The only command that works for me right now via shortcut is Emby which I have mapped to shift+F10.

Maybe the remote has problems with shortcuts requiring more than two keys?

Can somebody please tell me how to configure this remote to get these hotkeys working.

On your Harmony, install MCE Keyboard and/or MCE Keyboard SE as a device.

In Windows Start Menu, right click your app and select open file location. (this is going to navigate you to C:\Users\your name\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu and NOT to programs where it is installed)
Right click the app and select properties.
Select the shortcut tab.
Left click the shortcut box that says none.
Press the key on your remote that you want to launch the app and it will enter itself. (this is the key you can select from MCE Keyboard which is the same as your physical keyboard. Either will accomplish the shortcut)
Save and exit.

I do this for Harmony activities using many shortcuts. In other words, I press an activity and many, many, things start from that single press. Kodi is one of them for example and you could use your Tidal app just as easily.

Going to check this out tomorrow, thank you for the very detailed response, I didn't realize I had to add an MCE device.

biglen 05-30-2020 05:54 AM

If I get a 2060 Super, will this PC be good enough to run MadVR?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2c7281a21f.jpg

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

mightyhuhn 05-30-2020 06:53 AM

it should work but you only have PCIe 2.0 and the CPU is very weak.

esumsea 05-30-2020 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59730204)
it should work but you only have PCIe 2.0 and the CPU is very weak.

I did not think that the PCIe slot version mattered as, I hear not even the full bandwidth of PCie 1.0 is not used if you have 16 lanes. There was an article years back that tested cards on PCIe 1.0-3.0 and found bvery little performance differences if the full 16x slot was used (https://www.techpowerup.com/review/i...press-scaling/). Am I wrong about this? I am currently considering coverting an old MB with PCIe 1.0 16x to a HTPC, but maybe I should reconsider.


I am also seriously debating between the merits of going with a 1660ti vs a 2060 or 1660s. I can get a 1660s for $100 less than a 2060 and $70 less than a 1660ti but I would like to take advantage of tone mapping with MadVR. Since the recommendation sticky on the first page has not been updated in almost a year, I do not know if the 1660s would be sufficient to do it.

mightyhuhn 05-30-2020 05:15 PM

i don't see them testing madVR in this 8 year old test and without a native decoder madVR can suffer heavily even from PCIe 2.0.
tone mapping isn't finished so no one can know what it will needs in the end.

in terms of madVR performance all 16 series card should be pretty similar except for the 1650 none super.
so sorry the best someone can recommend is get the best card you can pay for.

esumsea 05-30-2020 07:06 PM

Thank you Mightyhuhn! I guess I need at least 3.0 to get the tone mapping performance? If so, I guess I have to go shopping for a motherboard. Its funny because others have told me otherwise in other threads, telling me I can just use any board and cpu.


I also wonder how anyone can get Dolby TrueHD out of their computers because I have read that none of these cards have HDMI 2.1 outputs and dont send lossless Atmos audio'through their HDMIs. For the amount of money I would spend on the card I was hopping to at least get HD Audio. Unfortunately I can't find any audio cards that provide digital output and analog too noisy from a computer. I might have to wait to see what the 30 series will offer, unless I am missing something.

mightyhuhn 05-30-2020 07:20 PM

if you are using D3D11 native and understand the limitation of it you could be fine PCIe 2.0.

well you are missing that they can do TRUE HD for like 10 years.
even decoding no problem for a long time now. decoding DTS HD was a problem for sometime but that was also fixed to many years ago and bitstreaming was never an issue.

madVR has a problem with dolby vision which may never be fixed but that's a different kind of problem.

esumsea 05-30-2020 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 59733570)
if you are using D3D11 native and understand the limitation of it you could be fine PCIe 2.0.

well you are missing that they can do TRUE HD for like 10 years.
even decoding no problem for a long time now. decoding DTS HD was a problem for sometime but that was also fixed to many years ago and bitstreaming was never an issue.

madVR has a problem with dolby vision which may never be fixed but that's a different kind of problem.


Thanks again! So if I understand you correctly you are saying that madVR somehow passes True HD so I can get 11.2 surround sound to the receiver from the HDMI 2.0 connection? I did not think that was possible due to bandwidth limitations. How is this accomplished through a renderer?



I was not aware that madVR had problems with Dolby Vision. That is a bummer.

mightyhuhn 05-30-2020 08:01 PM

that's dolby atoms. madVR has nothing todo with it lav filter can bitstream it the atmos bitstream has the same max size as dolby trueHD 7.1 if bitstreaming is used they are the same.

and even if it would need more bandwidth it's nothing compared to video.

HDMI 2.1 has nothing todo with it.

noob00224 06-02-2020 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by covsound1 (Post 59745322)
I have must of the parts to build a stand alone htc.My question is can i use J R river software with Madvr with all its features. And what software are you guys using to rip hdr 4k movies. It has been many years for me. The idea of using my ipad to select my movies sounds fascinating to me.

Maybe ask the question here instead of reading the encyclopedia.

biglen 06-03-2020 04:18 AM

I finally found a Kaby Lake Pentium PC to use as an HTPC with MadVR. It will be strictly used for HDR tone mapping for my Epson 5050. All I need is memory and a GPU. Is 8gb of memory enough, and can I run the highest (or best) settings on a GTX 1660 TI, or should I get a GTX 2060 Super?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Aceman2101 06-03-2020 04:51 AM

I’ve noticed that a lot of my movies look very grainy, I’ve tried the noise reduction tab, but I start to drop a lot of frames. Is there away I can help fix this ? I’m running
R5 2600
16gb 3200mhz
Sapphire nitro + 580 8gb


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