Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 162 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4831 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by esumsea View Post
I am going to order another card and give this another try. The shield performance is not acceptable. Up-scaling creates lots of artifacts. Playing the same film on a 1080p screen with a 590ti looks worlds better than the same film on a 4K C8 65in through the shield.

When playing other films through the 1660ti on my HTPC, I was getting way too much stuttering with the 1660ti. I am considering a 2060 super or a 2070 Super for $90 more to see if they can accomplish the look I am going for. Both cards are stretching my budget a bit, but I want to use a lot of artifact removal. I want to remove ringing effects and banding. I would like to get the nice smooth pic I get on my 1080 with a 590ti card. For me smoothness and lack of motion artifacts are a priority. Trying these settings on the 1660ti caused it to get very loud. After reading SirMaster say




I thought a 2060 super would be enough, but others say you need more.

I can buy a 2060 Super for $359 or a 2070 Super for $449. I would much rather spend less if the performance is not going to be affected, but not if it is going to cause frustration with a loss of quality. I don't know if the 2070 S is so much better that it would allow me to upgrade my settings. Please advise. I have to buy today. Got a special deal that ends.
I guess it depends on what image processing you want to do.

This is what I run on my plain RTX 2060:
https://nicko88.com/misc/madVR%20settings/

And I am in the low to mid 30ms render time range. This is with no overclock on my GPU.

Personally I see no reason to need to spend substantially more than the $320 it was on a faster GPU for any quality purposes, but my needs may be different. About the only thing I can see for me is higher chroma scaling quality, but I can't see any difference when I go higher and compare them directly.
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post #4832 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
I guess it depends on what image processing you want to do.

This is what I run on my plain RTX 2060:
https://nicko88.com/misc/madVR%20settings/

And I am in the low to mid 30ms render time range. This is with no overclock on my GPU.

Personally I see no reason to need to spend substantially more than the $320 it was on a faster GPU for any quality purposes, but my needs may be different. About the only thing I can see for me is higher chroma scaling quality, but I can't see any difference when I go higher and compare them directly.

Thank you SirMaster!


I see you do not do much processing and perhaps that is what is brings less than satisfactory results. I wonder if the the 2060 Super or the 2070 super would give me the extra processing power to accomplish my goals
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post #4833 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post
I guess it depends on what image processing you want to do.



This is what I run on my plain RTX 2060:

https://nicko88.com/misc/madVR%20settings/



And I am in the low to mid 30ms render time range. This is with no overclock on my GPU.



Personally I see no reason to need to spend substantially more than the $320 it was on a faster GPU for any quality purposes, but my needs may be different. About the only thing I can see for me is higher chroma scaling quality, but I can't see any difference when I go higher and compare them directly.
What are you using for a display?

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post #4834 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by esumsea View Post
Thank you SirMaster!


I see you do not do much processing and perhaps that is what is brings less than satisfactory results. I wonder if the the 2060 Super or the 2070 super would give me the extra processing power to accomplish my goals
I just built an HTPC with a 2060 Super, and I'm still learning MadVR. Let me know if you want me to try any particular settings, to see if the 2060 Super can handle it, before you buy one.

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post #4835 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 06:39 PM
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what are you using for a display?

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jvc nx5
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post #4836 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 06:59 PM
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jvc nx5
I figured it was a projector. Our settings are very similar, and I have an Epson 5050.

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post #4837 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 07:51 PM
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How about dynamic tone mapping for HDR content? If I keep it as simple as you suggested, would I be wasting the capabilities of my RTX2060 Super?
Yea set all that up, too. Since 1080p content will not need dynamic tone mapping, those settings will be ignored unless you're playing back 4K. No need for a profile to make the decision. It'll be done automatically since the input video won't have HDR to tone map unless it's needed. As for 1080p or 720p content, no need for a profile there just configure your upscaling. 4K content that's HDR won't need to be upscaled so those settings will also be automatically ignored. You only need profiles if you're running into poor render times on some videos and need higher settings on others. So far, that hasn't been the case for you.

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post #4838 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 07:53 PM
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So looking at these screenshots, it looks to me that at the very least, I have the dynamic tone mapping working, right? My projector looks to be in bold, and the OSD says tone map in the one section.
Yep, looks good! How's it looking on your screen?

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post #4839 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 07:55 PM
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Yep, looks good! How's it looking on your screen?
It definitely looks better than the Shield I was using !

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post #4840 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 07:56 PM
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My question would be, am I messing anything up by setting Kodi to 1080p, as opposed to 2160, which I normally did?
Yep, you're missing the ability for madVR to upscale. Big bummer. For 3d content, 1080p is all that's supported but for everything else you should be 2160p period. Actually, you're not losing anything if you've set madVR at 2160p24 in the display modes and don't have any 1080p lines there. MadVR will kick into 4K instead.

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post #4841 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 08:04 PM
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Yep, you're missing the ability for madVR to upscale. Big bummer. For 3d content, 1080p is all that's supported but for everything else you should be 2160p period. Actually, you're not losing anything if you've set madVR at 2160p24 in the display modes and don't have any 1080p lines there. MadVR will kick into 4K instead.
Here's what happens when I play a 4k 2160, and a 1080p movie. I think my settings are all kicking in properly. From what I can tell, the tone mapping is doing its thing on HDR content, and upscaling is taking place on 1080p movies.

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post #4842 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 08:46 PM
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Here's what happens when I play a 4k 2160, and a 1080p movie. I think my settings are all kicking in properly. From what I can tell, the tone mapping is doing its thing on HDR content, and upscaling is taking place on 1080p movies.
Spoiler!
Your render times are really low on 1080p content which leaves you a lot of overhead. You could up your chroma to medium or even high I bet.

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post #4843 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 08:49 PM
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Your render times are really low on 1080p content which leaves you a lot of overhead. You could up your chroma to medium or even high I bet.
Okay, thanks! Everything else looks good though? Any other options you see that can be bumped up?

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post #4844 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 08:58 PM
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Okay, thanks! Everything else looks good though? Any other options you see that can be bumped up?

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Have you added the upscale enhancements I suggested earlier? The same can also be applied in processing>image enhancements for when playing a 4K file.

What about the HDR tone mapping configuration?
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post #4845 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:03 PM
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For anyone that thinks having an HTPC and maintaining it is an ongoing headache, I just wanted to share something. In our family room, we have had an nvidia shield and we mainly use it for plex. Unfortunately, on the shield rows of suggested content keeps appearing on the dashboard. As one is disabled a bit later another appears. It's annoying. But that aside, it's very easy to exit the plex client just hitting the back button too much you find yourself back on the main dashboard. This became very problematic and confusing for my wife over the last 6 months.

I have since setup an HTPC and made some tweaks so that the plex client cannot be exited. The plex client on PC is plex for kodi which is all written in Python. It was pretty easy to change "exit" to "switch user" and bring up the user switch dialog. It's now impossible for my wife to exit the plex client. Not only that, but if you manage to somehow get out of plex, its just relaunched in 10 seconds. It's been over a month since I've made this transition from shield to HTPC and not once has my wife or kids had any questions or issues using the system. And the keyboard hasn't been pulled out even once.
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post #4846 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:07 PM
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Okay, thanks! Everything else looks good though? Any other options you see that can be bumped up?

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It seems that you dont use image enhancements or upscaling refinement yet. Depending on your taste you can use them as there are lots of headroom of your GPU.
For me as I like the sharpenness, I'm using NGU sharp for 1080p chroma and Luma sharpen, Crispen edges, enhance detail. Even on 4k source I'm using Luma sharpen, enhance detail to boost the sharpens.
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post #4847 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:09 PM
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Have you added the upscale enhancements I suggested earlier? The same can also be applied in processing>image enhancements for when playing a 4K file.

What about the HDR tone mapping configuration?
Yes, I'm using your suggested settings, but only with 1080p. I'll try them with 4k movies too.

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post #4848 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:13 PM
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Yes, I'm using your suggested settings, but only with 1080p. I'll try them with 4k movies too.
Enhancements are personal preference. For me, I don't like any on 4K content. There's no "right way" here.
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post #4849 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
For anyone that thinks having an HTPC and maintaining it is an ongoing headache, I just wanted to share something. In our family room, we have had an nvidia shield and we mainly use it for plex. Unfortunately, on the shield rows of suggested content keeps appearing on the dashboard. As one is disabled a bit later another appears. It's annoying. But that aside, it's very easy to exit the plex client just hitting the back button too much you find yourself back on the main dashboard. This became very problematic and confusing for my wife over the last 6 months.



I have since setup an HTPC and made some tweaks so that the plex client cannot be exited. The plex client on PC is plex for kodi which is all written in Python. It was pretty easy to change "exit" to "switch user" and bring up the user switch dialog. It's now impossible for my wife to exit the plex client. Not only that, but if you manage to somehow get out of plex, its just relaunched in 10 seconds. It's been over a month since I've made this transition from shield to HTPC and not once has my wife or kids had any questions or issues using the system. And the keyboard hasn't been pulled out even once.
What controller are you using that makes things easy?

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post #4850 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:20 PM
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What controller are you using that makes things easy?
I use only MX500 remotes. They're learning and have a clone remote feature so you can setup a remote and clone it to another MX500 in about 15 seconds. I have 3 mx500 in my family room, 3 in my theater, 2 in our bedroom (one each side of the bed), 1 in gym, 2 in bonus room, 2 in 2nd family room and 5 spares in the closet. On the HTPC, I have an FLIRC attached and programmed for 6 buttons: up, down, left, right, exit/back, enter. The remotes have the same buttons regardless of equipment so the roku up in the gym and the HTPC in the main room the remotes look and act the same.

For the HTPC, any remote would work that has a disk with enter, and exit.
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post #4851 of 4908 Old 06-30-2020, 09:22 PM
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I use only MX500 remotes. They're learning and have a clone remote feature so you can setup a remote and clone it to another MX500 in about 15 seconds. I have 3 mx500 in my family room, 3 in my theater, 2 in our bedroom (one each side of the bed), 1 in gym, 2 in bonus room, 2 in 2nd family room and 5 spares in the closet. On the HTPC, I have an FLIRC attached and programmed for 6 buttons: up, down, left, right, exit/back, enter. The remotes have the same buttons regardless of equipment so the roku up in the gym and the HTPC in the main room the remotes look and act the same.



For the HTPC, any remote would work that has a disk with enter, and exit.
I have a Harmony 650, so that would probably do the job.

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I guess it depends on what image processing you want to do.

This is what I run on my plain RTX 2060:
https://nicko88.com/misc/madVR%20settings/

And I am in the low to mid 30ms render time range. This is with no overclock on my GPU.

Personally I see no reason to need to spend substantially more than the $320 it was on a faster GPU for any quality purposes, but my needs may be different. About the only thing I can see for me is higher chroma scaling quality, but I can't see any difference when I go higher and compare them directly.

Many thanks for this SirMaster.
I have a 400nits Phillips HDR monitor and use a 1080Ti graphics card with madvr and mpc-hc. Whilst the results using madvr on the Spears and Munsil 4k HDR disc were an improvement there was still a lot of blown highlights and low shadow details in many scenes.
Using basically your settings from above the improvement was huge. I could understand why so many others value madvr so highly. I seemed to have overload the 1080Ti with too many high quality settings and with some wrong ones which your settings eliminated.

Much more detail in the highlights and the shadows.
Well done to madshi and thanks again for your info on how to get the best out of madvr.
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post #4853 of 4908 Old 07-01-2020, 05:55 AM
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I guess it depends on what image processing you want to do.



This is what I run on my plain RTX 2060:

https://nicko88.com/misc/madVR%20settings/



And I am in the low to mid 30ms render time range. This is with no overclock on my GPU.



Personally I see no reason to need to spend substantially more than the $320 it was on a faster GPU for any quality purposes, but my needs may be different. About the only thing I can see for me is higher chroma scaling quality, but I can't see any difference when I go higher and compare them directly.
How did you set up that clickable settings page? Also, do your settings cover both 2160p and 1080p movies? I think I may have made way more work for myself, because I made a ton of different resolution profiles, thinking I needed them for MadVR to know when to use settings for each resolution. I followed this step. Was it overkill?

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post #4854 of 4908 Old 07-01-2020, 07:17 AM
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How did you set up that clickable settings page? Also, do your settings cover both 2160p and 1080p movies? I think I may have made way more work for myself, because I made a ton of different resolution profiles, thinking I needed them for MadVR to know when to use settings for each resolution. I followed this step. Was it overkill?

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You mean the web page link?

That's just how a web server (Apache) looks when you allow folder access. I just put the images in a web server folder and linked to the folder. I run the web server on my home server and I bought a domain name nicko88.com because my name is nick and I was born in '88. It was available and it's short and easy to remember so I like it.

Personally I use the same settings for all resolutions.

2160p content naturally has 3840x2160 luma resolution, and 1920x1080 chroma resolution. So for 2160p content only the chroma is upscaled from 1920x1080 to 3840x1260.

1080p Content naturally has 1920x1080 luma and 960x540 chroma. So for this both are upscaled to 2160p.

What you need to understand is that the NGU upscaler is a pixel doubler, so it can only double the pixel resolution with 1 exception and that is NGU AA. NGU AA can scale from any resolution to any resolution. But I don't recommend it for luma (image) upscaling.

So now for up-scaling 720p to 2160p, NGU will normally scale it first to 2560x1440 (double), and then to 5120x2880 (double again) which is greater than 3840x2160, so then madVR has to downscale it to 3840x2160 to display on the 4K display. This is why setting good downscaling settings is important even if you think you are only upscaling. You can see in my upscaling settings I have luma quadrupling set to direct quadruple high. This is because very high image quadrupling is just a little too much for my 2060, so when I am playing 720p on my 4K display I am just getting NGU High instead of very high.

So you can see that even without profiles, an understanding of how things work and with careful settings, you can achieve what you want. There is nothing wrong with profiles, I just find them unnecessary for my purposes.


The biggest use of profiles IMO would be for image enhancements. However I don't find that I like any of the image enhancements normally except for a rather weak "1" for enhance detail applied to everything. Too much image enhancement just leads to too many artifacts IMO.

Also for color space I have madVR set to BT.2020 and my projector is also always in it's BT.2020 color space mode. So madVR maps both rec709 content as well as BT.2020 content to BT.2020, so the color always shows up fine. I don't need to have a rec709 profile mode in my madVR and I don't have to change my projector mode for HDR vs SDR.

I could talk about a lot more stuff but I don't want it to be overwhelming. Hopefully this teaches you some more of the concepts for now.
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post #4855 of 4908 Old 07-01-2020, 07:27 AM
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You mean the web page link?



That's just how a web server (Apache) looks when you allow folder access. I just put the images in a web server folder and linked to the folder. I run the web server on my home server and I bought a domain name nicko88.com because my name is nick and I was born in '88. It was available and it's short and easy to remember so I like it.



Personally I use the same settings for all resolutions.



2160p content naturally has 3840x2160 luma resolution, and 1920x1080 chroma resolution. So for 2160p content only the chroma is upscaled from 1920x1080 to 3840x1260.



1080p Content naturally has 1920x1080 luma and 960x540 chroma. So for this both are upscaled to 2160p.



What you need to understand is that the NGU upscaler is a pixel doubler, so it can only double the pixel resolution with 1 exception and that is NGU AA. NGU AA can scale from any resolution to any resolution. But I don't recommend it for luma (image) upscaling.



So now for up-scaling 720p to 2160p, NGU will normally scale it first to 2560x1440 (double), and then to 5120x2880 (double again) which is greater than 3840x2160, so then madVR has to downscale it to 3840x2160 to display on the 4K display. This is why setting good downscaling settings is important even if you think you are only upscaling. You can see in my upscaling settings I have luma quadrupling set to direct quadruple high. This is because very high image quadrupling is just a little too much for my 2060, so when I am playing 720p on my 4K display I am just getting NGU High instead of very high.



So you can see that even without profiles, an understanding of how things work and with careful settings, you can achieve what you want. There is nothing wrong with profiles, I just find them unnecessary for my purposes.





The biggest use of profiles IMO would be for image enhancements. However I don't find that I like any of the image enhancements normally except for a rather weak "1" for enhance detail applied to everything. Too much image enhancement just leads to too many artifacts IMO.



Also for color space I have madVR set to BT.2020 and my projector is also always in it's BT.2020 color space mode. So madVR maps both rec709 content as well as BT.2020 content to BT.2020, so the color always shows up fine. I don't need to have a rec709 profile mode in my madVR and I don't have to change my projector mode for HDR vs SDR.



I could talk about a lot more stuff but I don't want it to be overwhelming. Hopefully this teaches you some more of the concepts for now.
Yes, I was referring to the web page link. Now I understand how you did it. Thanks for explaining everything to me. I think I'm going to leave everything the way it is. My picture looks stunning, and everything is playing correctly.

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post #4856 of 4908 Old 07-01-2020, 07:42 AM
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I just built an HTPC with a 2060 Super, and I'm still learning MadVR. Let me know if you want me to try any particular settings, to see if the 2060 Super can handle it, before you buy one.
Thats really nice of you biglen. I actually have been reading a lot of your comments and sort of "followed" your build of your HTPC. You had a lot of similar question as I. I ended up going up with the 2070 Super as I had to buy last night on a best buy birthday deal. Ended up getting it for $450. I made the choice when it went out of stock for 15 minutes and I got really upset. I realized that I wanted that card and that point and pulled the trigger when it came back as available a couple of minutes later (since then out of stock). LOL!

I would like to get a peak at your settings. I am not sure if you posted them, though I know you have had discussions about it. I had a hard time setting it up with the 1660ti but I need to get this sorted as I am getting another 4K TV soon and will be going 4k all through the house. I want the same experience I had in 1080 and the shield was not cutting it.

Hopefully I can get madVR working this time around with a little help from my friends here at AVSforum!

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For anyone that thinks having an HTPC and maintaining it is an ongoing headache, I just wanted to share something. In our family room, we have had an nvidia shield and we mainly use it for plex. Unfortunately, on the shield rows of suggested content keeps appearing on the dashboard. As one is disabled a bit later another appears. It's annoying. But that aside, it's very easy to exit the plex client just hitting the back button too much you find yourself back on the main dashboard. This became very problematic and confusing for my wife over the last 6 months.

I have since setup an HTPC and made some tweaks so that the plex client cannot be exited. The plex client on PC is plex for kodi which is all written in Python. It was pretty easy to change "exit" to "switch user" and bring up the user switch dialog. It's now impossible for my wife to exit the plex client. Not only that, but if you manage to somehow get out of plex, its just relaunched in 10 seconds. It's been over a month since I've made this transition from shield to HTPC and not once has my wife or kids had any questions or issues using the system. And the keyboard hasn't been pulled out even once.
Yep. That is one thing you get with a HTPC. Customization. You can also add stronger network paths (10gbs). There are still many reasons to have a HTPC. In the end it will be better than a stand alone device, but I wish it was not such a pain in the but to set up and maintain. I am sure after a little suffering I will be happy. I will be doing A LOT of testing this weekend (Other that the 4th of course).

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I use only MX500 remotes. They're learning and have a clone remote feature so you can setup a remote and clone it to another MX500 in about 15 seconds. I have 3 mx500 in my family room, 3 in my theater, 2 in our bedroom (one each side of the bed), 1 in gym, 2 in bonus room, 2 in 2nd family room and 5 spares in the closet. On the HTPC, I have an FLIRC attached and programmed for 6 buttons: up, down, left, right, exit/back, enter. The remotes have the same buttons regardless of equipment so the roku up in the gym and the HTPC in the main room the remotes look and act the same.

For the HTPC, any remote would work that has a disk with enter, and exit.
I have an MX500 and am thinking of buying another. A lot to set up but once you do, it is awesome!
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post #4857 of 4908 Old 07-01-2020, 07:43 AM
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Your render times are really low on 1080p content which leaves you a lot of overhead. You could up your chroma to medium or even high I bet.
Which chroma setting were you referring to? The setting in Image upscaling for chroma, or the Chroma Upscaling NGU setting?

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post #4858 of 4908 Old 07-02-2020, 01:49 PM
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Looking for any Win 10 users to see what build version you are using. I am on 1903 from a recent migration from Win7, which i never had any issues, but wanted more power to play 4k via mpc-hc with madvr. i also use the htpc as my plex server, but since the change to win 10, i get a lot of lag and stutter if I don't reboot the pc everyday. i have tried many different older graphic drivers, but no luck. so was wanting to try a different windows 10 build to see if that might be the issue.


thanks for any feedback.
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post #4859 of 4908 Old 07-03-2020, 05:40 AM
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Looking for any Win 10 users to see what build version you are using. I am on 1903 from a recent migration from Win7, which i never had any issues, but wanted more power to play 4k via mpc-hc with madvr. i also use the htpc as my plex server, but since the change to win 10, i get a lot of lag and stutter if I don't reboot the pc everyday. i have tried many different older graphic drivers, but no luck. so was wanting to try a different windows 10 build to see if that might be the issue.
May 2020 (version 2004). Latest GPU drivers.
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post #4860 of 4908 Old 07-03-2020, 03:22 PM
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can i use rx 580 for 4K hdr tone mapping for madvr or not with 3200G igpu?

or

do i have to use 1660 ti/ 2060 KO for it?
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