Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 19 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 3094 Old 11-12-2017, 11:06 PM
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Interestingly the Reality Creation on the 4K HDR X1/X1 Extreme still refines the image even after being up-scaled to 4K by madVR/or native 4K.
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post #542 of 3094 Old 11-13-2017, 01:02 AM
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The Reality Creation on my 4K Sony LCD sucks big time compared to what madVR can do. It's an older model, though, maybe newer models are better. But I'd bet a lot on that madVR will still beat Reality Creation on any current Sony device by a wide margin.
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post #543 of 3094 Old 11-13-2017, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
However, you can route any source device into the Lumagen, which is something your HTPC can't do.
The Lumagen acts as a central hub for my system. I route a Roku Ultra, unRAID server/HTPC and Oppo 203 through it. Using NGU Sharp, I get excellent results (2160P) from madVR on 1080P material through the HTPC to an RS600. No need to use the Lumagen scaling in that case.
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post #544 of 3094 Old 11-19-2017, 11:38 AM
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Playing this 1080 file:
jellyfish-90-mbps-hd-hevc-10bit.mkv

MPC-HC shows 6/1790 dropped frames, but they all happen at the beginning of playback (probably the switch to full screen adds some lag). My windows display is set to 3840x2160 60hz and it's outputing to my Samsung KS8000 which has UHD mode enabled on that hdmi interface.

I didn't touch the madVR settings so when I look at:
- chroma upscaling: cubic under (custom shader code) and there's a box at the bottom that says bicubic60
- image upscaling: lanczos is selected

Quote:
Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
Can you play 4k HDR video or upscale 1080p to 4k WITHOUT dropped frames with this card ? If so which madVR settings are you using, eg. NGU sharp low, med, high, very high etc. for Luma/Chroma ?
Thanks
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post #545 of 3094 Old 11-19-2017, 02:14 PM
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Hey guys,I would appreciate some help with a problem,i recently discovered that my gtx 970 can't decode x265 4k movies well,so i've been gathering x264 files,but when using the new artifacts removal (reduce compression artifacts and reduce random noise) my pc crashes and reboots in a instant.My question is : Are better gpus (gtx 1060,1070 and 1080) capable of using those options or is it impossible for 4k movies?
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post #546 of 3094 Old 11-19-2017, 03:08 PM
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not really doable at UHD and why does a UHD file have these issues in the first place?
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post #547 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
not really doable at UHD and why does a UHD file have these issues in the first place?
Is this a reply for me ? It's not doable with any of the current gpus ? I mean,it's only using like 50% and using reduce random noise (strength 3) would only use about 25%.I guess i don't really understand madVR in 4k that much
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post #548 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 10:41 AM
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a 1060 needs way over 20 ms for RRN and RCA (with chroma) for 1080p. 4K well needs 4 times this.
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post #549 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
a 1060 needs way over 20 ms for RRN and RCA (with chroma) for 1080p. 4K well needs 4 times this.
I see,Nvidia's noise reduction will have to do.Thanks for the help.
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post #550 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 12:00 PM
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not sure how you will get that to work with madVR but i really don't get why someone wants to use this for UHD.
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post #551 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
not sure how you will get that to work with madVR but i really don't get why someone wants to use this for UHD.
I had no idea that it didnt work with madVR,too bad.I want to use it because i'm kinda of addicted to it with 1080p and smaller UHD rips (10gb) show a lot of artifact and noise,at least imo.
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post #552 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor Pecoraro View Post
...and smaller UHD rips (10gb) show a lot of artifact and noise,at least imo.
I'm sure you're correct. If you bit-rate starve UHD, the results are gonna suck. So don't do rips at such anemic rates.

And if your rips are being obtained from sources you have no control over, then just stop, because it's illegal.
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post #553 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
I'm sure you're correct. If you bit-rate starve UHD, the results are gonna suck. So don't do rips at such anemic rates.

And if your rips are being obtained from sources you have no control over, then just stop, because it's illegal.
It's also illegal in many parts of the world to rip your own media discs but you have no issue with that?

It's not uncommon to encode legally obtained video at lower bitrate with similar codecs as UHD video discs.

Best to steer clear of legal comments. It's insulting to the op and anyone else that reads this post.
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post #554 of 3094 Old 11-20-2017, 09:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axell View Post
Got this one and very pleased with it: ASUS Expedition GTX 1050 Ti
https://rog.asus.com/articles/gaming...n-gtx-1050-ti/
As per previous post, depends on your madvr settings (in case you'll be going this route) the fans could spin a bit faster than normal but nothing out of ordinary.
On the other hand I like to watch movies pretty loud so... i cannot hear any of the fans from my HTPC...
I'm looking for a 1050ti due to my limited budget. Since you have one, could you please check that if NOT using artifact removal (RCA, RRN etc.), can the 1050ti upscale any non-4k sources to 4k with Image/Chroma NGU Sharp-High (as recommended by Madshi) without any issue ?
Thanks
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post #555 of 3094 Old 11-21-2017, 04:20 PM
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I just installed a 1080 Ti and was surprised to find that it can't handle 4K when NGU is turned to its highest setting and the image is being downscaled with one of the more elaborate methods.
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post #556 of 3094 Old 11-21-2017, 04:30 PM
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make sure you are not using optimal power saving option in the nvidia control panel.
and try a lower chroma setting like low or high.

and well NGU VH is hard to do...
for 23p HZ i can do it with a 1060 and normal chroma barely i have to set everything else pretty low but it is doable so a 1080 should be able todo that too obviously.
madshi said he cold do it with his 1070 barely too so maybe just maybe there are huge diminishing returns for NGU on the much faster cards.
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post #557 of 3094 Old 11-22-2017, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The other (and probably even bigger) part of the problem is that you'd need some sort of HDMI "input" port, which is currently not available in any standard PC. You could try to add a HDMI "capture" card, e.g. from BlackMagic Design, but they have some limitations I don't like. E.g. they only support a very specific subset of resolution/framerate/colorspace/chroma combinations, and IIRC they probably don't support capture of stuff like DTS-MA or TrueHD etc. Maybe there are other capture cards which do all we need, but even then you'd still need to somehow route the capture card's capture data into the DirectShow playback graph. Maybe it's all possible, I don't know, nobody has tried yet (that I know of).
Thanks for that.

Yes, losing DTA-MA or TrueHD would be bad... but that assumes you're starting from some source that has it to begin with. AFAIK, none of the streaming sources do. You're lucky to even get lossy DD5.1 AC3. Here's what Hauppauge has to say about their HD PVR2 unit:

"You can access the HD PVR 2 in your DirectShow application. Simply build a Directshow graph and add the crossbar, capture and encoder filters. Then connect them all up, and it'll output a transport stream containing H.264. You can then demultiplex it or do whatever you want to it." [like pass it to MadVR? ] "And you can use standard Microsoft API like IVideoEncoder to control the bitrate."

The HD PVR2 GamingEdition-Plus can handle AC3 from an HDMI source. Thus my curiosity about running 1080p content from an Amazon FireTV, or Roku Premiere+, or a Chromecast dongle through MadVR to a 4K display.

It's been almost a decade since I last worked with DirectShow, but I suppose if I did it once, I could figure it out again.
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post #558 of 3094 Old 11-22-2017, 03:22 AM
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It seems the Hauppauge encodes the HDMI data to lossy h264, which would definitely lower image quality. Not a good solution, IMHO. You'd need a capture solution which makes the HDMI data available to DirectShow untouched.
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post #559 of 3094 Old 11-22-2017, 11:43 AM
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Heya, I'm in the process of getting upgrading my HTPC for UHD HDR playback and was wondering a couple things. I'm a very experienced PC builder, however it's hard to find good details on what exactly is required for HDR playback/passthrough.
Now through research I've learned that WDDM 2.2 or 2.3 is required, along with either a HDMI 2.0a or 2.0b port. Unfortunately the HD530 doesn't support this so I'll have to add a GPU. From what I could find in the various madVR threads is that there's no real benefit in AMD vs Nvidia when it comes to compatibility (except that Nvidia broke something in their drivers but there's a workaround?). If possible I'd prefer using an AMD GPU since Nvidia is doing some nasty things business wise (another topic entirely haha).

So I'm considering getting either a RX 560 or RX 570, both would probably come with 4GB of VRAM. Has anyone benched these in madVR? And is it worth getting the faster of the two? Or perhaps going even higher than this?
And can is it possible to have it automatically switch between HDR and SDR output on AMD? I don't fancy toggling that setting in Windows every time I switch between watching HDR and SDR content.

Any answer is greatly appreciated!
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post #560 of 3094 Old 11-22-2017, 12:02 PM
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Dynamic HDR switching with AMD should work just fine - but only in fullscreen, and it requires you to activate 10bit D3D11 presentation in the madVR settings.

4GB is a good idea. Can't say much about performance. AMD has some problems to run madVR's NGU scaling algos quickly, for some reason, which could be a reason to go Nvidia. Maybe this will be solved in a future driver or madVR version, but I can't say for sure. It's not that AMD can't run NGU at all, though, it's just somewhat slower than expected.

Choosing a faster GPU never hurts, there may always be new algos added in a future madVR version which consume additional GPU power. But then, selling your GPU and replacing it with a faster one is one of the easiest hardware upgrades, so it doesn't hurt to start with a budget GPU.
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post #561 of 3094 Old 11-22-2017, 12:22 PM
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Thanks for the super quick response!

Indeed I read somewhere on this forum that about the NGU scaling issues, but I don't think that'll present a real issue for me. Although I value high quality output above all, I don't think my eyes are good enough to discern the quality difference at the screen size/distance in my scenario.

It's great to hear that automatic HDR switching works and I'm aware of the full screen D3D11 requirement, I had actually fully setup a computer only to discover that the HD530 is incapable (artificial limitation in my eyes) of a WDDM higher than 2.1.
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post #562 of 3094 Old 11-23-2017, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
It seems the Hauppauge encodes the HDMI data to lossy h264, which would definitely lower image quality. Not a good solution, IMHO. You'd need a capture solution which makes the HDMI data available to DirectShow untouched.
Thanks for that. It is a good point. No question that untouched HDMI data would be preferred (if that were possible).

Though I wonder with most 1080p streaming content, re-digitized at 20 Mbps h264, whether the loss there is such that after upscaling through MadVR to 4K, it's worse than what the original raw 1080p was. Perhaps it's not worth the effort. Even if that allowed everything to run through the HTPC, instead of switching with HTPC as only one source option.
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post #563 of 3094 Old 11-23-2017, 12:57 AM
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It's impossible for me to say, there are good and bad h264 encoders. That said, why choosing a capture solution which uses lossy compression? There are capture cards from other companies which are capable of lossless capture. Whether they also capture audio, and are able to feed the captured data into a DirectShow graph, is another question, though.
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post #564 of 3094 Old 11-24-2017, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
...why choosing a capture solution which uses lossy compression?
A good question...

Quote:
Whether they also [A] capture audio, and [B] are able to feed the captured data into a DirectShow graph, is another question...
...with two good answers.

Quote:
There are capture cards from other companies which are capable of lossless capture.
I will look into those, since it has been some time since I last explored this possibility. Thanks for emphasizing this option, and the potential stumbling blocks.
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post #565 of 3094 Old 11-27-2017, 04:12 AM
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Hey,I'm having trouble deciding between the GTX 1050 ti 4gb and the GTX 1060 3gb. I'm not fussed about using NGU. Any help would be great.
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post #566 of 3094 Old 11-27-2017, 05:29 AM
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According to MaximumPC Magazine, the 3 GB 1060 is about 60% faster then a 1050 Ti.
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post #567 of 3094 Old 11-27-2017, 02:38 PM
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hello every one.. i just purchased a Dell Ryzen 7 1700X , RX580 8GB. i want to run Kodi Dsplayer.MadVR... with this setup let me run 4k remux HDR???
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post #568 of 3094 Old 11-28-2017, 12:48 AM
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yes it does work with HDR
not sure how kodi deals with HDR.
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post #569 of 3094 Old 11-28-2017, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clutch23 View Post
Hey,I'm having trouble deciding between the GTX 1050 ti 4gb and the GTX 1060 3gb. I'm not fussed about using NGU. Any help would be great.
If you go for gtx 1060 then you should get the 6GB, since 3GB might have issues with a 4k display.
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post #570 of 3094 Old 11-28-2017, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
If you go for gtx 1060 then you should get the 6GB, since 3GB might have issues with a 4k display.
Unfortunately the 6gb version is out of my budget.
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