Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 3082 Old 11-28-2017, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clutch23 View Post
Unfortunately the 6gb version is out of my budget.
Haha, your situation is exactly mine, also I think 6gb is overkill for playing videos but unfortunately 3gb is not enough. So I decided to get the 1050ti and accept some compromises by upscaling good sources.
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post #572 of 3082 Old 11-28-2017, 08:39 AM
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the 3gb version may work fine but i can't guarantee it.
i even got a 2GB card working fine but i needed to tweak it a lot and i have to avoid some features and even stuff on the windows side just to save Vram, 3gb is maybe enough.
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post #573 of 3082 Old 11-29-2017, 04:51 AM
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My 6GB 1060 runs about 3.5GB-3.75GB usage during playback with the max settings that card can handle so far.

DO NOT buy a 3GB card.
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post #574 of 3082 Old 11-29-2017, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
My 6GB 1060 runs about 3.5GB-3.75GB usage during playback with the max settings that card can handle so far.

DO NOT buy a 3GB card.
Thanks very much for your real-world example. That's quite helpful. We can always use more of that here.

However, I think that blanket statement should be tempered a bit, to say...

"Do not buy a 3 GB card IF you want to run MadVR at the maximum possible settings the card can handle."

I say that because I suspect if someone is willing to back off from that absolute, push it to the limit approach, a 3 GB card will work just fine.
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post #575 of 3082 Old 11-29-2017, 10:44 AM
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Well keep in mind those ‘max settings that the card can handle’ are pretty low end, conservative settings.
There is no card out right now that gets anywhere close to max settings.
Even nV’s Volta won’t get there.
So now you have multiple users including the guy who writes the app advising you against a 3GB card.
You can waste your money if you so choose. Just don’t misinform others based on YOUR financial decision.

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post #576 of 3082 Old 11-29-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
Thanks very much for your real-world example. That's quite helpful. We can always use more of that here.

However, I think that blanket statement should be tempered a bit, to say...

"Do not buy a 3 GB card IF you want to run MadVR at the maximum possible settings the card can handle."

I say that because I suspect if someone is willing to back off from that absolute, push it to the limit approach, a 3 GB card will work just fine.
most settings have no effect on the Vram. so no without settings you may run in troubles with 3gb. but with fiddling with some more settings that doesn't effect image quality (queues) you can make it work.
the next problem memory usages is not accurate it easily uses more than it needs.
do i have to make screen of a working 2Gb card at UHD to show you a real world example of it working? the AVG user should not try stuff like that.
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post #577 of 3082 Old 11-30-2017, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
Well keep in mind those ‘max settings that the card can handle’ are pretty low end, conservative settings.
There is no card out right now that gets anywhere close to max settings.
Even nV’s Volta won’t get there.
So now you have multiple users including the guy who writes the app advising you against a 3GB card.
You can waste your money if you so choose. Just don’t misinform others based on YOUR financial decision.
upscaling 1080p to 2160p (GTX1070 without oc): usually, any strength reduce banding artifacts; reduce compression artifacts up to strength 10/medium or up to 5/high or any reduce random noise strength; any image enhancements at any strength; any ngu high quality chroma upscaler; any ngu high quality for image upscaling (ngu very high luma with lower reduce artifacts or lower chroma or lower/fewer enhancements/refinements); any upscaling refinements at any strength; I think this is pretty close to 'max settings'. Only reason for more powerful graphics card, for me, would be to use RCA High/10, along with very high luma, for some anime, along with all of the above, as desired & that might be possible, anyway, very soon, with the next madVR version. For most video: 2gb is okay for a 1080p monitor (GTX1050) & often, 4gb is minimum for a 4k monitor (GTX1050ti; GTX1060 6gb; GTX1070, etc.). I would not recommend above GTX1070 or GTX1070ti, unless also, gaming, or need for 'almost maximum settings' for everything (diminishing returns). I usually set madVR to 1440p for 720p sources & use ngu very high for chroma & luma, although the jury is still out on whether this is much better than just lowering a few settings & sticking with 2160p (depends on need for extra sharpening). I would not buy a 3gb card. I think a GTX1070ti, is probably the sweet spot for almost everything with a 4k monitor & a GTX1050ti, or a GTX1060 6gb, would be great for a 1080p monitor. I think a Volta, when they arrive, will 'get there' for almost any video.
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post #578 of 3082 Old 11-30-2017, 05:47 AM
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So what are some recommended settings for MadVR when rendering native 2160p source (no upscaling).
Is it just tailoring the image processing settings to your liking - sharpness, etc?

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post #579 of 3082 Old 11-30-2017, 12:42 PM
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madVR 4k Settings

Try google: "madvr 4k settings". Also, 4k settings in madVR, is an ongoing subject on doom9 forums - especially, the most recent pages. Lots of info, about HDR issues, 3D issues, using, win8.1 vs win10, using, older graphics drivers, etc. 4k sources, should not need much, if anything, in the way of sharpening, or other madVR enhancements. You can always try some of them & see what you think.
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post #580 of 3082 Old 11-30-2017, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by songman27 View Post
4k sources, should not need much, if anything, in the way of sharpening, or other madVR enhancements. You can always try some of them & see what you think.
If so then 4k sources also should need a less powerful GPU card than 720/1080p sources ? Maybe a gtx 1050ti is enough instead of gtx 1060 ? Vram usage is a different story, I guess ?
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post #581 of 3082 Old 11-30-2017, 07:32 PM
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gtx1050ti for 4k videos

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Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
If so then 4k sources also should need a less powerful GPU card than 720/1080p sources ? Maybe a gtx 1050ti is enough instead of gtx 1060 ? Vram usage is a different story, I guess ?
Trying to upscale 720p & 1080p, with a gtx1050, to 2160p, was not so good, because it is only 2gb. Kept running out of ram. I am pretty certain, that a decent 4gb card, would have worked, without this issue, as 2gb, was "close" to working. Very easy with a gtx1070. I thought about getting a gtx1060 3gb, before deciding, that I wanted to try very high madVR settings, to upscale my anime. Very glad, that I got a gtx1070, instead. I do not game, so I was hesitant, about getting a more expensive card. Totally worth it, for me. I sit pretty close to a 65" 4k TV, so I can see more imperfections. If I moved back a little, a gtx1050ti, would probably look about the same as a gtx1070, with madVR, to be honest. As I recall, even that gtx1050, or my intel cpu, played 2160p videos, without a hitch and they looked great, too. A gtx1050ti, should suffice for upscaling (just not with higher settings, in madVR), & easily handle, 2160p videos, as well. A GTX1060 6gb, would likely, be a very good choice, if you also upscale, quite a bit. However, I do not view much 2160p content, so....some else?
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post #582 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 08:39 AM
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The GTX 1050 is a 2GB model. The GTX 1050Ti is a 4GB model.
The GTX 1050Ti will play anything you throw at it and will scale using madVR NGU Sharp on High for 2160p, 1080p, 720p sources, and at least NGU Anti-Alias High for SD sources.
It's on sale at Frys for $139 fwiw.

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post #583 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 10:25 AM
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Not For My Anime

Okay. GTX1050ti: High luma for image upscaling or high chroma for 2160p. Both? I do not see how a GTX1050ti, could upscale, 720p or 1080p, on a 4k monitor, using high luma + chroma + RCA High + some other enhancements, including, higher settings, with some sharpeners. This is a deal-breaker, for me, because of what RCA + lots of extra sharpening, does, for my anime. I think, that anime, usually benefits, a lot more, with higher overall, madVR settings, compared to most non-anime sources. I usually prefer, NGU Very High, for chroma & luma, as well. Everyone, has to decide, what looks good to them. I just think, that a GTX1050ti, is less than ideal, for anime, with a 4k monitor. I do think, that for, non-anime & 4k sources, a GTX1050ti, would probably, be a very good choice, or maybe, a GTX1060, for some future-proofing, or higher settings. How close you sit, from your screen & how large it is, is also a big factor, as more distance, means less need for some, madVR enhancements.
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post #584 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 12:30 PM
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High Chroma is not as important as High Luma. Chroma can use as low as Cubic and be sufficient. Always adjust Luma 1st, then what ever you have enough left over should be considered for Chroma and then other algo's from there like enhancements. Not everyone centers on cartoons and I think the vast majority are watching movies. Those interested mainly in anime should take this in consideration.

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post #585 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 02:34 PM
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Talking Anime with madvr

My anime, are not, cartoons. Does AVS (madVR topic), have another forum, just for anime? Happy to go there. If not, maybe, I can start one?
Not everyone, has a 4k monitor, or is interested in HDR. Maybe, I should be more interested in HDR? I did not realize, that there was very much content available, yet. I thought, that most people, used madVR, primarily, to upscale 720p & 1080p.
Anime: Luma, first – as high as possible. Chroma, second – high, if possible (chroma, sometimes, looks better at lower strengths). Artifact removal, third – if needed & lower chroma, if needed to use it & then, lower luma, if still needed to use it. Other enhancements, next, if needed & lower chroma & then luma, if needed to use them. Experiment & find what works best for you. Anime, looks great, to me, with my settings. Always, interested, in improving images.
I have been using Kodi, for a very long time, only, for the media library views.
I do not use, Nvidia enhancements, ffdshow, or mpch-hc shaders (degraded images).

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madVR, is easily, the most important software, on my PC, because of anime.

Last edited by songman27; 12-01-2017 at 02:35 PM. Reason: MISSPELLING
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post #586 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 03:40 PM
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Btw, there is a new LAV filter update released today.

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post #587 of 3082 Old 12-01-2017, 10:14 PM
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This is why we purchased 240Hz model displays as opposed to common antiquated 60Hz or 120Hz ones.
don't tell anyone but 240 hz with an VA panel well no... the response time has problem with 120 hz.
and the real reason screen have 120 "true" FPS is for 5/5 cadence so movies are displayed without frame judder as "smooths" as in a cinemas.

and because you like the "Soap Opera Effect" read carefully what it really means: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap-Opera-Effekt (you have to translate it it is one of the last true meanings of the Soap-Opera-Effect which is now misused for high frame rate.)
a good true 60 FPS source doesn't have the "Soap Opera Effect" because it literal means motion looks like plastic and the set is made out of rubber.
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post #588 of 3082 Old 12-02-2017, 02:36 PM
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nightly lav filters

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Btw, there is a new LAV filter update released today.
Thank you! LAVFilters-0.70.2-82.exe 2017-12-01. Wouldn't it be nice to have a fully integrated media player, that automatically updated, the media player + madVR + lav filters + Nvidia or Amd or Intel graphics drivers + automatic quick rollback, if needed + automatic optimal image adjustments, for all sources + overclocking + update your OS? Too much? Tech is there.
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post #589 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 12:58 AM
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obviously impossible.
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post #590 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by songman27 View Post
Try google: "madvr 4k settings". Also, 4k settings in madVR, is an ongoing subject on doom9 forums - especially, the most recent pages. Lots of info, about HDR issues, 3D issues, using, win8.1 vs win10, using, older graphics drivers, etc. 4k sources, should not need much, if anything, in the way of sharpening, or other madVR enhancements. You can always try some of them & see what you think.
So about Chroma Upscaling is NGU (Sharp High or AA High) still useful when watching 4K native source on 4K TV? Or something like Lanczos or even Bicubic would produce the same quality since the source is already "perfect"?

I'm asking only about Chroma Upscaling because in this case, meaning 4K > 4K, I think that's the only thing being used since there is no image downscaling or upscaling.

Looking forward your reply since I'm trying to understand this and I'm not finding a proper and definitive answer.
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post #591 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 05:37 AM
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I’ve been studying MadVR a lot, up close with native 4K UHD ripped content lately.
Any changes under ‘Scaling’ are ignored. They simply don’t kick on, since nothing is being upscaled. What’s funny is the latency will skyrocket with certain changes with absolutely zero effect on the image.
I have set up profiles and go back and forth on paused images with a simple key press, and from a foot away from a 75” set, there is zero change. I think this has included chroma upscaling too.
The only changes I see are in the global ‘Processing’ and ‘Rendering’ sections. Since those cannot be tied to a profile, it’s difficult to see changes or do any sort of A/B.

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post #592 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Metal_Icarus View Post
So about Chroma Upscaling is NGU (Sharp High or AA High) still useful when watching 4K native source on 4K TV? Or something like Lanczos or even Bicubic would produce the same quality since the source is already "perfect"?

I'm asking only about Chroma Upscaling because in this case, meaning 4K > 4K, I think that's the only thing being used since there is no image downscaling or upscaling.

Looking forward your reply since I'm trying to understand this and I'm not finding a proper and definitive answer.
is depends on your screen not all screen can do 4:4:4 properly so the effect of chroma scaling is less visible and the content plays a huge rule too.

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Any changes under ‘Scaling’ are ignored. They simply don’t kick on, since nothing is being upscaled. What’s funny is the latency will skyrocket with certain changes with absolutely zero effect on the image.
super sampling is kicking in under upscaling.
i'm not going to disagree that difference at UHD are rather slim but it is clearly not zero.
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post #593 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 06:34 AM
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^^ Thanks for the response Huhn. Do you have any settings suggestions for improving native 4K 2160p UHD rips? This is on a 4K set.
This is an attempt to improve a lot of these studio-upscaled 2K DI UHD discs. Some possible sharpening or super sampling? Where exactly should I set that stuff in MadVR?
I’m finding that some of my 1080p BD rips looks far sharper than *the same movie* in its UHD format because MadVR cannot improve upon the UHD because the upscaling algorithms don’t kick in on a native source. If that makes sense.
Where are the super-sampling settings located that you mention? Where under upscaling?
I think what I’m after most is a way to sharpen the native UHD content. I think we’re going to be seeing a lot more 2K UHD upscaled discs for years to come and I’d like a way to combat the softer look, if possible.
Thanks!!

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post #594 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 06:42 AM
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^^ Thanks for the reply Huhn.
Where are the super sampling settings exactly?
What I’m hoping to accomplish is to sharpen a lot of these studio-upscaled 4K UHD discs. As you know, most of the UHD disc releases are upscaled from 2K DIs. They have a soft look to them that drives me nuts on my 75” 4K screen.
Some of the 1080p BDs of the same movie look better in some regards because MadVR is able to do a far better upscaling job than what some of these studios are doing.
Any suggestions? I’ve read Doom9 and it seems they’re mostly still upscaling 1080p, not discussing native 2160p improvements.
Thanks!

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post #595 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 06:43 AM
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LOL, I thought I lost my post, so I retyped it. Sorry for the dupe!

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post #596 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 06:53 AM
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activate doubling / quadrupling ..always - supersampling.
but i warn you its not effect and your GPU will cry for mercy for UHD but that's how you supersample.

using processing -> image enhancements should be a cheaper but still expensive way to active what you want.
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post #597 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 07:09 AM
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is depends on your screen not all screen can do 4:4:4 properly so the effect of chroma scaling is less visible and the content plays a huge rule too.
My screen can do 4:4:4, that's what I am using now. So about the questions I asked what can tell me, in this case/context I mean.
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post #598 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 07:19 AM
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well you have to try it out.

and really depends on what you are watching and the scene.
it'S not rare that people use bicubic on 1080p screen because they don't see a difference.

to me super XBR and ngu AA are the best chroma scaler and i can see a difference but you have to find that out for yourself if it makes a difference to you.
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post #599 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 11:12 AM
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well you have to try it out.

and really depends on what you are watching and the scene.
it'S not rare that people use bicubic on 1080p screen because they don't see a difference.

to me super XBR and ngu AA are the best chroma scaler and i can see a difference but you have to find that out for yourself if it makes a difference to you.
I'll try and see with 4K on 4K. BTW can you give me your point of view about NGU AA vs NGU Sharp High? I was debating it with a friend and I think that with high quality sources (UHD for example) there's no need to push on sharpness.
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post #600 of 3082 Old 12-03-2017, 12:31 PM
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NGU sharp has really neutral results when upscaling none aliased source. this was multiply times proven by downscaling it with a reasonable scaler and upscaling it with NGU sharp. so using NGU sharp is a neutral way to upscale. the name doesn't sound like it but well it is as it is.

NGU AA is a very good choice for cartoon and anime where aliasing can be an issue NGU sharp can go a little bit well the wrong way. aliased CGI looked bad with NGU sharp too.
NGU sharp is bad with bad source with alot of compression artefacts RCA helps there but not always.
for a normal BD NGU sharp is a very save, neutral and most likely the best choice you have.
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