Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 23 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #661 of 3094 Old 01-25-2018, 11:12 AM
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AMD vs Nvidia

Way back when testing Nvidia vs AMD GPUs for use on HTPC I found the following:

My requirements:

- Smooth playback of 23.976 content only with MadVR.
- Ease of use (3D support mostly)

1) I could get perfect 23.976Hz via AMD GPUs with no effort.
2) You had to create a custom res for Nvidia to get something near 23.976 (like 23.97) but it introduced issues with PC levels (I think you go double expansion on any custom res). Best I can tell, this is still the case.
3)3D mode is automatic and app controlled on AMD GPUs
4)With Nvidia GPU you had to manual enable 3D mode which then made your desktop/non-3D UI unusable and one had to constantly manage 3D mode.

So I did some research to refresh the current state. Read that AMD polaris based GPU and MadVR not a great combo and best value choice was a Nvidia 1050ti.

But mainly because of issue #1 , I went with a AMD RX560 (16cu/2048, 4GB) and I indeed still get perfect 23.976 and other refresh rates, but even using just Jinc for up/down scaling my system is on the edge of acceptable render rates.

I use Win10 with a i3 4330 w/ LAV and using DXVA copy-back for UHD content only.

So are the Nvidia deficiencies still present? Would a 1050Ti allow me to use NGU?

Thanks.

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post #662 of 3094 Old 01-25-2018, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightfly85 View Post
Way back when testing Nvidia vs AMD GPUs for use on HTPC I found the following:

My requirements:

- Smooth playback of 23.976 content only with MadVR.
- Ease of use (3D support mostly)

1) I could get perfect 23.976Hz via AMD GPUs with no effort.
2) You had to create a custom res for Nvidia to get something near 23.976 (like 23.97) but it introduced issues with PC levels (I think you go double expansion on any custom res). Best I can tell, this is still the case.
3)3D mode is automatic and app controlled on AMD GPUs
4)With Nvidia GPU you had to manual enable 3D mode which then made your desktop/non-3D UI unusable and one had to constantly manage 3D mode.

So I did some research to refresh the current state. Read that AMD polaris based GPU and MadVR not a great combo and best value choice was a Nvidia 1050ti.

But mainly because of issue #1 , I went with a AMD RX560 (16cu/2048, 4GB) and I indeed still get perfect 23.976 and other refresh rates, but even using just Jinc for up/down scaling my system is on the edge of acceptable render rates.

I use Win10 with a i3 4330 w/ LAV and using DXVA copy-back for UHD content only.

So are the Nvidia deficiencies still present? Would a 1050Ti allow me to use NGU?

Thanks.
1. 23.976 is just a number for perfect playback you need to match the audio clock which is usually easier on AMD but this not perfect out of the box because it is just a number a worthless number if you have nothing to compare it against. the only thing that matter is if you run async or not.

3. windows 10 supports 1080p and 1080p 3D so can simply choice what you want to use.
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post #663 of 3094 Old 01-25-2018, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
1. 23.976 is just a number for perfect playback you need to match the audio clock which is usually easier on AMD but this not perfect out of the box because it is just a number a worthless number if you have nothing to compare it against. the only thing that matter is if you run async or not.

3. windows 10 supports 1080p and 1080p 3D so can simply choice what you want to use.
For 1) I have found no other way other than to match refresh rates between display and movie for perfect playback; i.e. no drops, repeats or glitches. Using reclock I'd get audio out of sync with video eventually. Using nvidia - results in drops every few minutes at the least.

3) Yes, but on AMD, I have to do nothing to watch a 3D movie - just play it; everything switch back and forth depending on context. But frankly, this is a minor issue. It's seamless on AMD not so on Nvidia.

So if I wanted to go Nvidia - what settings or setup does one need for perfect playback?

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post #664 of 3094 Old 01-26-2018, 03:18 AM
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like always 4 options.

1. you just match the refreshrate and pray that the clock even remotely match(higher chance with AMD and still a gamble at best)
2. reclock if it work properly it will not run async
3. madVR smoothmotion. select the highest possibile refreshrate... done.
4- custom refresh rate to match the offset of the audio clock and as a reminder the 23.976 number has nothing todo with it a good clock could easily be in between 23.970-23.980.
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post #665 of 3094 Old 01-30-2018, 02:56 PM
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Almost managed to get UHD discs playing on my Windows 7, i7 and Nvidia GTX 670 system. Using MPC-HC+LAV+MadVR it can actually play some scenes at 24fps without frame loss and totally perfectly, but most scenes show minor (and still annoying frame loss or lagging) and some scenes heavy frame loss and lagging. So close, but having to try to decode HVEC in CUDA at the level it is used on the UHD discs is just a trace too much for my GTX 670. It gets close, but not quite (it also has to run so much the fans get annoyingly noisy when it tries anyway). Obviously it couldn't support HDR anyway, but it can spit out 4K and even wide gamut color.
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post #666 of 3094 Old 01-30-2018, 06:00 PM
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The bad thing is crypto-currency mining crowd had gobbled up all video cards so getting a 10x0 series card with full HEVC decoding is ridiculous now.
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post #667 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 08:03 AM
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Where is this HDR-to-SDR shaders in mpc?

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post #668 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 08:09 AM
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mpc-hc doesn't have it madVR has it.
it's active by default when a HDR file is detected and no HDR display is detected.
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post #669 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
mpc-hc doesn't have it madVR has it.
it's active by default when a HDR file is detected and no HDR display is detected.
so this is why with every new version the hdr look better and better. but the image is still a little bit darker thаn is supposed to be...any solution foр this? i guess a small tune with the color controls would be enough?

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post #670 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:11 AM
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try to change the nit setting if your display isn't bright enough.
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post #671 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:25 AM
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i guess my card is too old. i dont see this option in madvr settings...

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post #672 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:30 AM
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your card has nothing todo with that and you can find the nit settings under devices ->"your device name" -convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math -> this display's peak nits:
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post #673 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:39 AM
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Before I buy a video card to upgrade my HTPC system to support 4K, is Dolby Vision supported on HTPC's at this point? If not, is it something that is expected to happen in the near future or are there licensing (or other) issues that will prevent that from being possible (at least for the near future)? I'd hate to spend money on a new card only to discover I need to buy something else to get Dolby Vision support.
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post #674 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:44 AM
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There is no Dolby Vision support on HTPCs. Probably will not be for a very long time.
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post #675 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 09:48 AM
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There is no Dolby Vision support on HTPCs. Probably will not be for a very long time.
Thanks for the response. I had a hunch that was the case, but figured it made sense to ask before spending any money.
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post #676 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
your card has nothing todo with that and you can find the nit settings under devices ->"your device name" -convert HDR content to SDR by using pixel shader math -> this display's peak nits:
thanks
i created profile group and all settings showed up...

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post #677 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 01:11 PM
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What settings should I be using in the nvidia control panel for mpc 4k playback ?
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post #678 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 01:46 PM
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I have a 4K Sony 65 inch TV. I'm using an HTPC with a 960 GTX. I also have a regular monitor attached by DVI connection, and HDMI to 4K tv.
I have my tv and monitor set to 1920x1080. The 4K content looks the same to my eyes whether I set the resolution on my tv to 4096x2160 or leave it at 1980x1080.
I don't game and the only thing I use the tv is 4k videos. Do I have to set the tv to the larger resolution. It creates huge scaling issues for me when I do. (Win7)
What if anything am I doing wrong? Thanks
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post #679 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobad63 View Post
What settings should I be using in the nvidia control panel for mpc 4k playback ?
change the power setting to NOT optimal and make sure the output format matches your TV. RGB is recommanded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucifer1977 View Post
I have a 4K Sony 65 inch TV. I'm using an HTPC with a 960 GTX. I also have a regular monitor attached by DVI connection, and HDMI to 4K tv.
I have my tv and monitor set to 1920x1080. The 4K content looks the same to my eyes whether I set the resolution on my tv to 4096x2160 or leave it at 1980x1080.
I don't game and the only thing I use the tv is 4k videos. Do I have to set the tv to the larger resolution. It creates huge scaling issues for me when I do. (Win7)
What if anything am I doing wrong? Thanks
it's generally much better to use the native resolution of TV. but if you can't see it use what works best for you.
be aware that windows 10 has better scaler far from perfect but it doesn't harm madVR and the desktop is self is "fine" too.
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post #680 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 02:08 PM
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change the power setting to NOT optimal and make sure the output format matches your TV. RGB is recommanded.


it's generally much better to use the native resolution of TV. but if you can't see it use what works best for you.
be aware that windows 10 has better scaler far from perfect but it doesn't harm madVR and the desktop is self is "fine" too.
Yes, I'm using madvr also. I'm debating whether I should move up to Windows 10.
I don't really want to have a dedicated HTPC for movies only.
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post #681 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 02:29 PM
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if you want to game there is no way around windows 10 in the long run.
for HTPC usage windows 8.1 is recommended.
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post #682 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 02:52 PM
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if you want to game there is no way around windows 10 in the long run.
for HTPC usage windows 8.1 is recommended.
Windows 8.1 is preferred to Win10? For mkv 4k playback only?
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post #683 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 03:13 PM
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Currently Windows 8.1 is more stable than Windows 10, at least that's my impression, and I don't like some Win10 design decisions. E.g. there's no way you can turn Windows Update off. Which is bad for HTPC use because you might annoying popups while playing a movie with guests in the house.
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post #684 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 04:07 PM
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there ware ways to "fix" this but it's really drastic...
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post #685 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 04:40 PM
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I often read about how annoying it is being constantly prompted about this that or the other thing especially during movie playback leading to a horrible entertainment experience and embarrassing situations that arise out of Windows 10. I've had Windows 10 Pro installed since it was introduced years ago. I have never ever experienced any sort of interruption at any time for anything? I've never seen a pop-up, a reminder, auto reboot, or anything else I read about? My HTPC is in use all day and well into the evening every day. It's not like I just coincidently missed them. I do have some simple switches OFF in Windows Settings that turn off notifications and probably some others more detrimental than convenient automations. Perhaps that's why?

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Win 10 Pro is the difference maker there, versus Win 10 home.

I do wonder if a simple batch file could disable the update service, and re-enable it easily?
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post #687 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
I often read about how annoying it is being constantly prompted about this that or the other thing especially during movie playback leading to a horrible entertainment experience and embarrassing situations that arise out of Windows 10. I've had Windows 10 Pro installed since it was introduced years ago. I have never ever experienced any sort of interruption at any time for anything? I've never seen a pop-up, a reminder, auto reboot, or anything else I read about? My HTPC is in use all day and well into the evening every day. It's not like I just coincidently missed them. I do have some simple switches OFF in Windows Settings that turn off notifications and probably some others more detrimental than convenient automations. Perhaps that's why?
Totally same thing here.

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post #688 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Currently Windows 8.1 is more stable than Windows 10, at least that's my impression, and I don't like some Win10 design decisions. E.g. there's no way you can turn Windows Update off. Which is bad for HTPC use because you might annoying popups while playing a movie with guests in the house.
Yea, I don't agree on the stability statement. But one thing that's interesting is you can download Windows 10 from microsoft website and install windows 10 for free and never activate it. It works forever. There's a registry key to disable the watermark. And once in this state, your 'penalty' for not activating it is that you are ineligible for windows updates. So in short, you get windows 10 for free and cannot get updates, which in effect, disables windows update.
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post #689 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 07:48 PM
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Nonsense. W10 is great on my high-end HTPC. Everything works great. Don’t miss 8.1 at all.

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post #690 of 3094 Old 02-05-2018, 08:17 PM
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so how did you beat the telemetry?
the degraded FSE that breaks countless programs.
the amazing xbox software(gameDVR) that degrade performance massively.
the bilinear high DPI scaling.
the broken desktop composition if you run 2 screen with a different refreshrate.
i stopped counting the windwos 10 build that just freeze with an 10 bit FSE.

nice that it works for you. but windows 10 has so many known problems...
yeah there are way to fix some of the issues but the fact that you need to fix them first shows everything.
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