Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 27 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #781 of 4911 Old 04-01-2018, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, I think I understand now. The provided specs are at least a base for comparison. I'll link to the post above.
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post #782 of 4911 Old 04-01-2018, 04:28 PM
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From my research, the 560 is just as capable as a 1050ti for home theater use. Which is how I would be using it and it appears how you are using it. I game on a console. Not my home theater PC anymore.

So when I said much much better, I was mainly talking about the driver support. It seems like AMD has had issues over the years with their drivers compared to Nvidia. At least that's my take away.

-T
It actually may be worth downgrading the firmware of the GPU as it may be because the new driver may not support it?? I will have to have a play about again see what's causing this issue.
Try a different driver. Even though my card is old and is not supported in this thread, since it does not do hevc decoding, I did go back to the Catalyst 14.9 driver. Watched 4 hours of movies and didn't have one problem with a disappearing playback sound device. Nor did I have an issue with blue screen.

I still used my LCD panel connected on a DVI port. And my other display, which is really my Onkyo receiver, was set to 4K on the HDMI port. had no issues upscaling 1080p to 4K with my AMD card using madVR high settings.

So use that as a data point. Maybe roll back the driver.

-T
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post #783 of 4911 Old 04-01-2018, 11:34 PM
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Due to the fact that more and more uhd movies have appeared, I bought a NUC6CAYH model with Intel Apollo Lake that seems to hw decoding 4k hevc hdr 10.

I have a SDR 4k tv Samsung 55JU7500.If I use external hdd with TV I have washed out image, because isn't HDR TV.

So, I bought a NUC6CAYH, I installed Win 10 X64 with latest drivers, MPC-HC X86.

When I play UHD movie HDR 10 with EVR Render I have a washed out picture.If i choose at render options "Force 10 bits colors" I have a better picture but not spectacular.

When I set madVR as render with HDR option "Let madVR decide" or "passtrough HDR to the display" i have astonishing picture with Vivid colors, sharp and high contrast, like HDR.

But the problem is that I have a lot of drop frames, seems the Apollo Lake CPU can't handle with madVR, even I dont have a high CPU usage.

So, CPU is too weak for madvr playing 4k movies?

I don't want to use upscalling from 1080 to 2160, so what is the minimum requirements for madvr 4k hdr 10 playback?

I would prefer a NUC sistem due its dimensions but I don't know if is enough with I3,I5or I7? or a desktop with dedicated cpu?
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post #784 of 4911 Old 04-01-2018, 11:52 PM
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you need a good GPU not CPU.

there are nuc sized PCs with a proper GPU but i will not recommend these small form factor PC which are known for limitation and problems.
there are other ways to get a PC smaller than a AVR or PS4 that has good cooling is silent and cost way less than a nuc.
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post #785 of 4911 Old 04-02-2018, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ccryd View Post
I don't want to use upscalling from 1080 to 2160, so what is the minimum requirements for madvr 4k hdr 10 playback?

I would prefer a NUC sistem due its dimensions but I don't know if is enough with I3,I5or I7? or a desktop with dedicated cpu?
Edit 2: Read my next post. I think we can get it working if your iGPU has an HEVC decoder.

Do read the first post for more assistance.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 04-02-2018 at 10:59 AM.
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post #786 of 4911 Old 04-02-2018, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ccryd View Post
I don't want to use upscalling from 1080 to 2160, so what is the minimum requirements for madvr 4k hdr 10 playback?

I would prefer a NUC sistem due its dimensions but I don't know if is enough with I3,I5or I7? or a desktop with dedicated cpu?
Jeez, man, I wrote an entire guide in the first post explaining this process. It doesn't cover iGPU, but that could still work. Set chroma upscaling to Bicubic60 + AR to start with and dithering to Ordered. Everything else off. If that doesn't work, your GPU is too weak. But do read the first post.

Edit: Forgot about DXVA2 image upscaling (under image upscaling). Set that as a last resort. It should also do the chroma upscaling and work with most iGPU. The quality will just be sub-par.
I was going to reply something along those lines. But also as a follow-up, is he even a candidate to use madVR? He said he did not want to upscale 1080p to 4K. Seems like his Focus was direct 4K rips.

So for that, it looks like he should be focused on the other thread which deals with HDR to SDR using madVR. Since his television does not support HDR.

But then again, for the HDR to SDR conversion, I'm not sure if his integrated GPU is sufficient for that.

-T
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post #787 of 4911 Old 04-02-2018, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Set image upscaling to DXVA2 image upscaling. This should take care of chroma upscaling, too. You may also need to tweak HDR -> SDR conversion if this is too demanding at its default settings. I don't think this is too taxing for a newer iGPU.

Set HDR to convert by pixel shader math, as your display is not native HDR. This is necessary to tweak the quality and performance of HDR -> SDR conversion, as well. It does use some resources but can be customized.

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post #788 of 4911 Old 04-02-2018, 02:40 PM
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Anandtech reviews the nuc6cayh/Madvr here, fwiw: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12295...ff-pc-review/5
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post #789 of 4911 Old 04-02-2018, 10:54 PM
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"The integrated GPUs are too weak to handle madVR."

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
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post #790 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 05:28 AM
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Hi Guys,

With the issues I'm currently having not knowing if this is based on my AMD RX560 4GB I am thinking of purchasing a NVIDIA 1050TI.. this one to be exact :

https://www.asus.com/uk/Graphics-Car...TI-O4G-GAMING/

Would you say that this card is better than the Sapphire Pulse RX560 4GB?

Thanks..

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post #791 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hi Guys,

With the issues I'm currently having not knowing if this is based on my AMD RX560 4GB I am thinking of purchasing a NVIDIA 1050TI.. this one to be exact :

https://www.asus.com/uk/Graphics-Car...TI-O4G-GAMING/

Would you say that this card is better than the Sapphire Pulse RX560 4GB?

Thanks..

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
If you're used to looking for the hidden differences between the rx 560 models you don't have to worry with the 1050 ti.

As far as I know they are pretty much the same minus differences in cooling devices and overclock.

AMD cards work out of the box without messing around with custom resolutions but that's not too difficult with madvr.

The 1050ti will have much better ngu performance.

Occasionally ebay has been running 15% off promos. Good way to score a 1050 ti at a more reasonable price.

I picked up an evga 1050 ti with a single fan.
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post #792 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 06:37 AM
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If you're used to looking for the hidden differences between the rx 560 models you don't have to worry with the 1050 ti.

As far as I know they are pretty much the same minus differences in cooling devices and overclock.

AMD cards work out of the box without messing around with custom resolutions but that's not too difficult with madvr.

The 1050ti will have much better ngu performance.

Occasionally ebay has been running 15% off promos. Good way to score a 1050 ti at a more reasonable price.

I picked up an evga 1050 ti with a single fan.
I may actually try this first to see if it sorts this irritating signal drop out which o thought i had solved lol

HDMI Pass-Through EDID Emulator for use with video splitters, Switches and Extenders https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0...f=c..._DQ3WAbYJ3TSM3

Or this one :

4K Display Emulator Plug Headless Ghost Emulator Fake Display(Fit Headless-4K New [email protected]https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0...f=c..._Fh4WAbZMNPZ5R

Can someone please advise what the difference is other than price? Thanks

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post #793 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 06:41 AM
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AMD cards work out of the box without messing around with custom resolutions but that's not too difficult with madvr.
would be nice... but nope that's not the case for both parts.
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post #794 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 06:41 AM
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would be nice... but nope that's not the case for both parts.
I may actually try this first to see if it sorts this irritating signal drop out which o thought i had solved lol

HDMI Pass-Through EDID Emulator for use with video splitters, Switches and Extenders https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0...f=c..._DQ3WAbYJ3TSM3

Or this one :

4K Display Emulator Plug Headless Ghost Emulator Fake Display(Fit Headless-4K New [email protected]https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0...f=c..._Fh4WAbZMNPZ5R

Can someone please advise what the difference is other than price? Thanks

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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post #795 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 06:50 AM
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would be nice... but nope that's not the case for both parts.
Just going off my experience with my amd 2400g @ 2160p23. A frame drop every 12 hours to more than a day (fluctuates).

With my 1050ti one frame drop every minute without a custom resolution.

Amd has some other issues but haven't needed custom resolutions.

But you have considerable more experience on this front. If I'm missing something please educate me.
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post #796 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 09:32 AM
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it's pure luck to get matching clocks you just need way more luck with nvidia.
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post #797 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 11:22 PM
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"The choice of CPU is only relevant if you want to playback UHD Blu-ray disks (not rips). Otherwise, any CPU is appropriate as long as you are satisfied with boot times and OS performance. The critical component of a HTPC is the GPU. So don't worry too much about the CPU and motherboard."

So, Intel® Pentium™ G4400, 3.30GHz, Skylake + GTX 1050ti/rx 460/560 can handle with madvr uhd rip playback?
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post #798 of 4911 Old 04-03-2018, 11:35 PM
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the smallest CPU you should ever buy is a G4560.
so yes a g4560 and a 1050 ti or 560 with 4 GB Vram can do this as the guide says.

a VEGA ZEN APU (2200g/2400g) should be able to work too but you need a lot of ram to make it work and it most likely needs to be fast too.
HDR->SDR conversation is a different topic not sure if these APU are fast enough it's not tested.
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post #799 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 05:24 AM
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Quick question for this thread. I currently have a HTPC that runs MadVR to scale 1080p -> 4k quite perfectly.

I am looking to add more storage so that I can rip my UHD collection and play 1:1 backups using JRiver + MadVR. In particular, I would like to utilize MadVR's HDR -> SDR feature for tonemapping.

Current Specs:
intel Core i5 4690K (not currently OC'd)
Asus Z97 Mobo
8GB Ram
GTX 1080 gpu

Do I need to upgrade anything in order to play UHD Rips using MadVR HDR->SDR function?

Also, and I guess most importantly is that I need to upgrade my storage capacity. I was looking at rack-mount NAS servers and RAID arrays, but they are all in a price range I'd like to avoid.

So I was looking at getting a simple dual-drive HDD docking station that would connect to my HTPC via USB3.0 Inateck Link for Dock

I'm thinking I will then add a single 8TB drive 8TB WD Red I honestly doubt I'll exceed the 8TB as I only plan to keep digital copies of demo quality discs (Lucy, BvS, MadMax, etc.)

My thought is that I can either expand my storage capability down that road with another 8TB+ drive or setup another 8TB as a RAID1 Mirror via Windows 10 Software RAID.

Am I missing any potential problems here? Will I be able to watch movie rips off this drive with USB3.0 connection?

A million thank yous

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post #800 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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No, your set up is fine. In fact, it is overkill, which is not a problem with madVR. It can use all of the grunt of that GPU (which is the important part) if you want it to.

I googled USB 3.0 transfer speeds and came up with this: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=321971. Not an official source but probably accurate.

I've met a user with a Core 2 Duo, 4GB of RAM and a GTX 960 4GB who was able to decode 4K UHD 60 fps with DXVA2 copy-back. That is probably the minimum CPU/RAM combination to decode with copy-back. Native would probably be fine. I would think the system RAM would be insufficient, but he said it was working for him.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 04-04-2018 at 07:27 AM.
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post #801 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 08:01 AM
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No, your set up is fine. In fact, it is overkill, which is not a problem with madVR. It can use all of the grunt of that GPU (which is the important part) if you want it to.

I googled USB 3.0 transfer speeds and came up with this: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=321971. Not an official source but probably accurate.

I've met a user with a Core 2 Duo, 4GB of RAM and a GTX 960 4GB who was able to decode 4K UHD 60 fps with DXVA2 copy-back. That is probably the minimum CPU/RAM combination to decode with copy-back. Native would probably be fine. I would think the system RAM would be insufficient, but he said it was working for him.
Thank Onkyoman, I probably should've read at least the messages on this page -- That is really good news that I don't need to upgrade. I realize its overkill, but is perfect amount of hardware/power to scale 1080p rips to 4k.

My biggest conern is whether I would run into any bottlenecks or playback issues by playing a 1:1 rip (either 1080p or 4K) off of an external hard drive. I've always associated external drives with being slow, but USB3.0 should get the job done.

Is anyone else playing media stored on a hard-drive connected via USB3.0?

Thanks again!!

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post #802 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Read the above post again. Transfer speeds for USB 3.0 are fast enough.
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post #803 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 08:42 AM
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UHD BD have a max bandwidth of 128 MBit/s that's ~16 mb sec so yes even USB 2.0 can do that.

i can't recommend the windows "raid" software and you are waiting your time with a raid and USB. a RAID should be setup only with empty disk while it is not impossible to create raids with existing data this process can be ridiculously slow and i highly doubt windows 10 supports that.
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post #804 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 09:12 AM
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UHD BD have a max bandwidth of 128 MBit/s that's ~16 mb sec so yes even USB 2.0 can do that.

i can't recommend the windows "raid" software and you are waiting your time with a raid and USB. a RAID should be setup only with empty disk while it is not impossible to create raids with existing data this process can be ridiculously slow and i highly doubt windows 10 supports that.
Excellent. This is great info, thank yo so much! RAID configurations isn't my area of expertise anymore and my friend suggested doing Software RAID as opposed to hardware. But if I'm just going to have a single 8TB drive, i might as well just point my jRiver to the new drive and be done with it.

If using the Dual-bay HDD dock with a single 8TB drive, would it be pretty easy to just slap another 8TB drive in there... run some kind of cloning software and mirror the drives that way? I realize its not ideal to do manual backups, but I dont mind the extra effort of doing a weekly or monthly back up in this way.

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post #805 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent. This is great info, thank yo so much! RAID configurations isn't my area of expertise anymore and my friend suggested doing Software RAID as opposed to hardware. But if I'm just going to have a single 8TB drive, i might as well just point my jRiver to the new drive and be done with it.

If using the Dual-bay HDD dock with a single 8TB drive, would it be pretty easy to just slap another 8TB drive in there... run some kind of cloning software and mirror the drives that way? I realize its not ideal to do manual backups, but I dont mind the extra effort of doing a weekly or monthly back up in this way.
The guide on page one has a section outlining three different options for NAS set up. None of them is cheap, however, compared to what you are proposing. You could find some really cheap, old components and build a dedicated NAS, but I don't know how cheap you could get. Software RAID is fine compared to off-the-shelf NAS servers, provided you set up the RAID properly.

I'm not an expert; I've just researched the topic for my own knowledge.
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post #806 of 4911 Old 04-04-2018, 10:44 AM
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The guide on page one has a section outlining three different options for NAS set up. None of them is cheap, however, compared to what you are proposing. You could find some really cheap, old components and build a dedicated NAS, but I don't know how cheap you could get. Software RAID is fine compared to off-the-shelf NAS servers, provided you set up the RAID properly.

I'm not an expert; I've just researched the topic for my own knowledge.
If the average UHD movie is 50gb in size then I should get about 150-160 movies on an 8tb drive. If I need more space than that, I will just delete movies or add another drive.

I'm only planning on storing exceptional movies to this external drive -- lesser quality UHDs won't take up valuable HDD space.

As long as I can use jRiver + MadVR to stream UHD rips from the USB3.0-connected external drive. I'm happy.

I don't care too much about fault-tolerance as I will still have a backup of everying in the form of the original UHD disc.

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post #807 of 4911 Old 04-05-2018, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
The guide on page one has a section outlining three different options for NAS set up. None of them is cheap, however, compared to what you are proposing. You could find some really cheap, old components and build a dedicated NAS, but I don't know how cheap you could get. Software RAID is fine compared to off-the-shelf NAS servers, provided you set up the RAID properly.

I'm not an expert; I've just researched the topic for my own knowledge.
If the average UHD movie is 50gb in size then I should get about 150-160 movies on an 8tb drive. If I need more space than that, I will just delete movies or add another drive.

I'm only planning on storing exceptional movies to this external drive -- lesser quality UHDs won't take up valuable HDD space.

As long as I can use jRiver + MadVR to stream UHD rips from the USB3.0-connected external drive. I'm happy.

I don't care too much about fault-tolerance as I will still have a backup of everying in the form of the original UHD disc.
Agreed. You don't need also it's a storage. I myself have 10 terabytes across three hard drives that are not in a raid configuration. If I run out of room? I delete the old ones or stuff I'm not going to watch anymore.

Only reason why I have 10 was 7 was not enough 🙂. Since I also allocate several terabytes to over-the-air programming recording.

-T
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post #808 of 4911 Old 04-07-2018, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated the Optical Disc section with recent news. DVDFab Player now supports on-the-fly UHD Blu-ray disc decrypting via DeUHD. The delay for new discs is said to be a couple of days. And AnyDVD (HD) is finishing testing on its UHD Blu-ray disc decryption tool, which should work with MPC, I would assume. DVDFab Passkey should also be available and will work like AnyDVD (HD), and perhaps be more reliable at playing new discs. Still to be determined which is faster at updating support for new discs.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 04-07-2018 at 01:05 PM.
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post #809 of 4911 Old 04-07-2018, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
And AnyDVD (HD) is finishing testing on its UHD Blu-ray disc decryption tool
AnyDVD HD has been able to decrypt UHD Blu-Ray for a couple of weeks now. Is that what you're talking about something new?
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post #810 of 4911 Old 04-07-2018, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
AnyDVD HD has been able to decrypt UHD Blu-Ray for a couple of weeks now. Is that what you're talking about something new?
Yes, that's what I was referring to. Links to all of these options are provided in the first post. There are now several ways to playback UHD Blu-ray discs.
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