Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 29 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #841 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 05:07 PM
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Isn't the 580 a power consuming hot and loud card?
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post #842 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hey there.. I'm in the process of building s new htpc for 4K hdr playback all tip quality full rips..

What specs have you gone for.. Here are my specs maybes bit overkill but the price difference in lower quality stuff wasn't that much difference..

Intel i5 8th gen 8400

Gigabyte z370p d3 motherboard

16gb corsair ram 2666mhz DDR 4

AMD RX 580 4GB NITRO + GPU

Samsung EVO 960 nvme drive for Windows 10 and couple programs..

Silverstone gd09b htpc case

EVGA 750w semi modular psu.

Not sure which cooling for the cpu to go for yet but was looking at the corsair H100i v2 or is this not necessary?



What have you got in your new HTPC.. Would like your thoughts and I havent opened any packaging yet so if you reccomend anything less than I will consider.. Cheers
If only for rips, much of this is overkill. If using a dedicated GPU, the mobo/CPU doesn't matter much unless you are trying to meet the requirements for Netflix 4k playback, UHD disc playback etc.

I have built two HTPCs this year, both can playback 4k HDR with no problems. In both cases, I bought with cost in mind. Here are the specs:

HTPC #1 - built with parts from 2015 but never got around to using:

Intel Pentium G3470
Noctua NH-L9i CPU cooler
Gigabyte Z97M-HD3 mobo
4GB ram
GT 1030 passive GPU
256GB SSD
LG WH14NS40 (it is UHD friendly)
EVGA 300w PSU
Win 10 Pro x64

HTPC #2 :

Intel Pentium G4600 w/ stock cooler
Gigabyte B250M-D3H mobo
8GB ram
GTX 1050 ti
128GB SSD
EVGA 450w PSU
Arctic F12 120mm case fan x2
Win 10 Pro x64

Both run Kodi > DSPlayer > madVR. Media is stored on a 16TB NAS.

HTPC #1 is using the lowest madVR settings. It's basically used only to passthrough HDR metadata to the TV. CPU usage on this computer is 25-30% and memory usage at 75%. I do get a few dropped frames when skipping chapters but upping the ram to 8GB should fix that, I think.

HTPC #2 is currently connected to the 1080p plasma in the living room so I use the better GPU here to downscale 4k and convert HDR to SDR. The GTX 1050 ti doesn't break a sweat and stats are CPU=15-20%, memory=40-45%. I plan to upgrade the TV next month to 4k which would make even less work for the GPU. I briefly had this connected to the bedroom 4k TV using the iGPU only and it's performance was more than adequate.

Both HTPCs are dead silent and barely generate heat. HTPC #2 as a matter of fact, can A/C the living room when left out in the open.
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post #843 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
If only for rips, much of this is overkill. If using a dedicated GPU, the mobo/CPU doesn't matter much unless you are trying to meet the requirements for Netflix 4k playback, UHD disc playback etc.

I have built two HTPCs this year, both can playback 4k HDR with no problems. In both cases, I bought with cost in mind. Here are the specs:

HTPC #1 - built with parts from 2015 but never got around to using:

Intel Pentium G3470
Noctua NH-L9i CPU cooler
Gigabyte Z97M-HD3 mobo
4GB ram
GT 1030 passive GPU
256GB SSD
LG WH14NS40 (it is UHD friendly)
EVGA 300w PSU
Win 10 Pro x64

HTPC #2 :

Intel Pentium G4600 w/ stock cooler
Gigabyte B250M-D3H mobo
8GB ram
GTX 1050 ti
128GB SSD
EVGA 450w PSU
Arctic F12 120mm case fan x2
Win 10 Pro x64

Both run Kodi > DSPlayer > madVR. Media is stored on a 16TB NAS.

HTPC #1 is using the lowest madVR settings. It's basically used only to passthrough HDR metadata to the TV. CPU usage on this computer is 25-30% and memory usage at 75%. I do get a few dropped frames when skipping chapters but upping the ram to 8GB should fix that, I think.

HTPC #2 is currently connected to the 1080p plasma in the living room so I use the better GPU here to downscale 4k and convert HDR to SDR. The GTX 1050 ti doesn't break a sweat and stats are CPU=15-20%, memory=40-45%. I plan to upgrade the TV next month to 4k which would make even less work for the GPU. I briefly had this connected to the bedroom 4k TV using the iGPU only and it's performance was more than adequate.

Both HTPCs are dead silent and barely generate heat. HTPC #2 as a matter of fact, can A/C the living room when left out in the open.


Do you know what.. You are absolutely correct. I am actually going to ship everything back as I haven't even opened them and get a refund.. Then order something like this:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...rd_i=430497031


or like this:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06VYJ7V...v_ov_lig_dp_it


I will keep my GPU as that's the most important element.. The RX580 4GB Nitro + and also swap out my PSU (750w) for something like a 500 or 550w.. semi modular.. any reccomendations?


I will get something like a WD Black M.2 SSD Drive for my main windows drive and programs and then I am sorted.


I have ordered the Silverstone GD09b case but if there is another recommended case I will consider.. The barebone bundles should be plenty enough for what I need it for really and anything else would be an overkill as you guys state and a waste of money really..


Which CPU cooler is recommended? I would probably prefer to use something very quiet or even cheap water cooled like corsair H55 maybe?


Thanks
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post #844 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
Isn't the 580 a power consuming hot and loud card?
I recall seeing reviews of fan noise about 40-45 db full load. As for power, it does require a single 8-pin connector. So yeah, that's a negative. Gtx 1060 needs a connector too.

580 needs 150W thru a connector. 1060 needs 120W.

Pretty close.

-T
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post #845 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hey there.. I'm in the process of building s new htpc for 4K hdr playback all tip quality full rips..

What specs have you gone for..
I'm not building a new HTPC. My specs are listed a few posts earlier. Hardware wise, I just need to upgrade my BD device to handle TL for UHDs and update my video card. Suggest reading the first post as this was suggest to me too and really has all you need to know to build a 4K HTPC that will handle MadVR. I'm just not sure about the latest dynamic tone mapping work which still isn't complete. I'm holding off on any video card until that's settled, also hoping they come done in price. Might need more than a 1050 Ti or the AMD on sale. Not sure, but certainly want to know and have asked in that thread. Also waiting for JRiver MC 24 release before upgrading that software.

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post #846 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
LG WH14NS40 (it is UHD friendly)
That's the drive I currently have in my HTPC. It works well for BD reads and 50GB disc burning. How does thing support UHDs? I thought a LG WH16NS40 SVC NS50 was needed for UHDs. If the 14 supports UHD read, then I can cancel my order on Amazon before it ships. Please let me know. Thanks!

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post #847 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
That's the drive I currently have in my HTPC. It works well for BD reads and 50GB disc burning. How does thing support UHDs? I thought a LG WH16NS40 SVC NS50 was needed for UHDs. If the 14 supports UHD read, then I can cancel my order on Amazon before it ships. Please let me know. Thanks!
If it's a 2nd gen WH14NS40 w/ svc code NS50, you should be good to go. If you bought it in 2015 or later, chances are you have it.

It's been solid for the most part. It does have issues reading certain discs but I've found that my Asus BW-16D1HT - which is the recommended UHD drive - generally has the same issues with the same discs.
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post #848 of 3082 Old 04-12-2018, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Do you know what.. You are absolutely correct. I am actually going to ship everything back as I haven't even opened them and get a refund.. Then order something like this:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...rd_i=430497031


or like this:


https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06VYJ7V...v_ov_lig_dp_it


I will keep my GPU as that's the most important element.. The RX580 4GB Nitro + and also swap out my PSU (750w) for something like a 500 or 550w.. semi modular.. any reccomendations?


I will get something like a WD Black M.2 SSD Drive for my main windows drive and programs and then I am sorted.


I have ordered the Silverstone GD09b case but if there is another recommended case I will consider.. The barebone bundles should be plenty enough for what I need it for really and anything else would be an overkill as you guys state and a waste of money really..


Which CPU cooler is recommended? I would probably prefer to use something very quiet or even cheap water cooled like corsair H55 maybe?


Thanks
Those bundles look solid. I would go with 8gb ram as a bare minimum. If the mobo has 2.0b HDMI and 2.2 HDCP (such as this) and you don't plan on any heavy processing with madVR, you can probably skip the GPU entirely. That's what I would do with my next build.
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post #849 of 3082 Old 04-13-2018, 05:56 AM
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there is a chance that even a iGPU as the vega 11 can be much faster than a RX 560 for NGU.
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post #850 of 3082 Old 04-13-2018, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
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@aerodynamics ,

For PC#1, try using D3D11 Native decoding, if you aren't already. I am pretty sure the bottleneck is the VRAM of the GTX 1030, as it only has 2GB. This seems more likely than the system RAM; although, that could be a contributing factor.

I've read D3D11 Native won't save you a ton of VRAM, but it will definitely help a little at 4K. It is also a good idea to check "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer instead of 32bit" under trade quality for performance. Asmodian at Doom9 reports that this option does nothing for him, but it's supposed to help.

Reducing the size of the queues in madVR can also help with smooth playback with limited VRAM. The queues must fill when seeking before resuming playback, which is why you are getting dropped frames.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 04-13-2018 at 08:52 AM.
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post #851 of 3082 Old 04-13-2018, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The Intel iGPU has been tested as worthless with madVR when rendering to 4K. There is a link earlier in this thread. I'm sure the AMD iGPU is considerably better.
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post #852 of 3082 Old 04-13-2018, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
If it's a 2nd gen WH14NS40 w/ svc code NS50, you should be good to go. If you bought it in 2015 or later, chances are you have it.

It's been solid for the most part. It does have issues reading certain discs but I've found that my Asus BW-16D1HT - which is the recommended UHD drive - generally has the same issues with the same discs.
Thanks! I'll take it out and look for that code on a it unless someone knows how to tell via software query/diag and can share. Hopefully it is and I can save some cash to use toward the video card.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it's from 2012 and does not see a UHD drive. The new one arrives on Tuesday and hopefully it has SVC code NS50 on the label. If not, then I'm not sure if there are any "friendly" new drives left that don't require a firmware downgrade from what I'm reading concerning ASUS drives.

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Last edited by stevenjw; 04-14-2018 at 12:54 AM.
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post #853 of 3082 Old 04-14-2018, 03:10 AM
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Hello!

I set up MPC/MadVR using a guide here. Something tells me I'm not getting the best performance out of my rig. Does anyone know what settings I should be using for the gear I have? I run my 4k content from files on my NAS, then via HDMI from the video card to my Sony STRDN1080 AVR, then to my new Sony 930E display (AVR handles audio and passes the video to the display).

I'm VERY new to 4k and HDR stuff, so thank you for any info!!!

GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0) LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170X-Gaming 7 (rev. 1.0) LGA 1151 Intel Z170 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 USB 3.0 ATX Intel
EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G1 120-G1-0750-XR 80+ GOLD 750W Fully Modular Includes FREE Power On Self Tester Power Supply


CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 2400 (PC4 19200) Desktop Memory Model
ASUS Dual series GeForce GTX 1060 DUAL-GTX1060-O3G 3GB 192-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready Video Card

ASUS Dual series GeForce GTX 1060 DUAL-GTX1060-O3G 3GB 192-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 HDCP Ready Video Card
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Intel Core i5-6600K 6M Skylake Quad-Core 3.5 GHz LGA 1151 91W BX80662I56600K Desktop Processor Intel HD
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I installed a ASUS BW-16D1HT in my HTPC, the drive works but I was wondering if anyone else has an issue where after every time i wake the pc from standby the drive makes a sound like its searching for a disc, this drive is probably the loudest drive ive ever had also. Do i have a dud and should exchange or is this just the nature of the drive?

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post #855 of 3082 Old 04-14-2018, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
Thanks! I'll take it out and look for that code on a it unless someone knows how to tell via software query/diag and can share. Hopefully it is and I can save some cash to use toward the video card.

EDIT: Unfortunately, it's from 2012 and does not see a UHD drive. The new one arrives on Tuesday and hopefully it has SVC code NS50 on the label. If not, then I'm not sure if there are any "friendly" new drives left that don't require a firmware downgrade from what I'm reading concerning ASUS drives.
I would go back to the MakeMKV forum post regarding drives and do some more research. I don't think you have to give up if your new drive is not "friendly." There were posts from as early as last week from users who had just bought drives with the right firmware. It is a matter of finding the right vendor and right drive model. This could be even easier if you are in the United States. Consider making an account at MakeMKV and posting yourself.
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post #856 of 3082 Old 04-14-2018, 09:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scharlau View Post
Hello!

I set up MPC/MadVR using a guide here. Something tells me I'm not getting the best performance out of my rig. Does anyone know what settings I should be using for the gear I have? I run my 4k content from files on my NAS, then via HDMI from the video card to my Sony STRDN1080 AVR, then to my new Sony 930E display (AVR handles audio and passes the video to the display).
It's very difficult to recommend settings, as it really comes down to taste and the quality of the content you are watching.

If you are mostly watching Blu-ray rips, there are some settings for high-quality content in the guide posted on page one of this forum. The link to the guide is at the very top of page one. It is my guide, which is mostly a collection of links and information I have gathered over the past five years. So, if you have any questions, leave them here. The content is technical and not always well-written.

If you are outputting at 10-bits from madVR, set dithering to Ordered rather than Error Diffusion. That can be a real hog on performance with no gain in image quality.

Other than that, you have a powerful graphics card to work with, so I expect you can use NGU high image scaling. The version of NGU comes down to preference. I recommend NGU Sharp if the source is of high quality.

There isn't too much you can do to an uncompressed UHD Blu-ray at 4K. You are pretty much limited to chroma upscaling and artifact removal, and you shouldn't need much artifact removal. You mostly want to worry about getting the HDR signal to the display.

There are new algorithms on the horizon, I'm sure, so your settings preferences could change again in another month.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 04-14-2018 at 09:19 AM.
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post #857 of 3082 Old 04-14-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
I would go back to the MakeMKV forum post regarding drives and do some more research. I don't think you have to give up if your new drive is not "friendly." There were posts from as early as last week from users who had just bought drives with the right firmware. It is a matter of finding the right vendor and right drive model. This could be even easier if you are in the United States. Consider making an account at MakeMKV and posting yourself.
Thanks! Yes, I've seen the options to downgrade or cross firmware to achieve "friendly" again. I'll see what shows up on Tuesday and go from there. I did a quick look into models at local B&M stores which are likely to have older inventory, but they're more expensive. I'm not giving up, just pointing out that the options seem to be getting slimmer.

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post #858 of 3082 Old 04-14-2018, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
@aerodynamics ,

For PC#1, try using D3D11 Native decoding, if you aren't already. I am pretty sure the bottleneck is the VRAM of the GTX 1030, as it only has 2GB. This seems more likely than the system RAM; although, that could be a contributing factor.

I've read D3D11 Native won't save you a ton of VRAM, but it will definitely help a little at 4K. It is also a good idea to check "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer instead of 32bit" under trade quality for performance. Asmodian at Doom9 reports that this option does nothing for him, but it's supposed to help.

Reducing the size of the queues in madVR can also help with smooth playback with limited VRAM. The queues must fill when seeking before resuming playback, which is why you are getting dropped frames.
Thanks for the tips. D3D11 didn't seem to change much in terms of system resources being used (it was DXVA copy back before). I did upgrade the ram to 8GB which did not improve anything. However, reducing the queue size from the default 16/8 to 12/5 seemed to help. There are still dropped frames when skipping chapters or when there is OSD but the random 1-2 dropped frames over the course of a movie seems to have subsided.
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post #859 of 3082 Old 04-15-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe333x View Post
I installed a ASUS BW-16D1HT in my HTPC, the drive works but I was wondering if anyone else has an issue where after every time i wake the pc from standby the drive makes a sound like its searching for a disc, this drive is probably the loudest drive ive ever had also. Do i have a dud and should exchange or is this just the nature of the drive?
https://youtu.be/ng-6GxVrsoU
I have an LG WH16NS40 drive in an external USB enclosure and it also makes the same type of noise when I power it up.

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post #860 of 3082 Old 04-15-2018, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerodynamics View Post
Thanks for the tips. D3D11 didn't seem to change much in terms of system resources being used (it was DXVA copy back before). I did upgrade the ram to 8GB which did not improve anything. However, reducing the queue size from the default 16/8 to 12/5 seemed to help. There are still dropped frames when skipping chapters or when there is OSD but the random 1-2 dropped frames over the course of a movie seems to have subsided.
I guess any advantage to D3D11 Native decoding comes down to the individual system. Oh well, worth trying.
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post #861 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 07:49 AM
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I'm considering build an HTPC according to the guidelines on this topic.
But, as i don't have a 4K projector yet (probably only by the end of the year), and due to the technology advances, its probably better to wait.
Is expected that during 2018, a new set of hardware will appear that can invalidate some of the guidelines presented so far?
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post #862 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm considering build an HTPC according to the guidelines on this topic.
But, as i don't have a 4K projector yet (probably only by the end of the year), and due to the technology advances, its probably better to wait.
Is expected that during 2018, a new set of hardware will appear that can invalidate some of the guidelines presented so far?
There will be new graphics cards that will be more powerful and madVR will inevitably have new algorithms that some may want to use but will require more processing power. So GPU processing needs may go up in the future.

Other than that, PC support of 4K UHD should remain unchanged for 2018. It will be harder to find "friendly" Blu-ray drives with the right firmware, if you want one of these. But MakeMKV is promising to create user-friendly tools to make it possible to flash old firmware on to new drives and make them "friendly" again.
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post #863 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 09:09 AM
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Do you know when its expected the launch of new graphic cards? Or is it random and can happen at any moment?
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post #864 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 10:39 AM
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Do you know when its expected the launch of new graphic cards? Or is it random and can happen at any moment?
The Nvidia Volta series cards (GT1130-GT1180) will probably be released mid to late this year by all accounts.
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post #865 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 10:39 AM
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it's even unclear if it's going to be new ones.

nvidia has volta for month and there is no word on desktop GPUs or if they are ever going to be released for desktop and not instead ampere even a pascal refresh is in the talks.

and AMD has VEGA for high end cards for a long time now and there a no main stream vega cards for desktop user the mainstream vegas are only used in APUs.

maybe nvidia releases volta tomorrow and AMD comes with vega mainstream cards or nothing happens. maybe they wait for 7 nm processes there is no clear data.
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post #866 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 11:12 AM
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This article suggests it can be launched around Q3 2018.
As i'm aiming to the end of the years, maybe its out by then
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post #867 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 11:15 AM
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I saw in my Google feed a Volta release date of 2018 Third quarter.

I was Lucky to get an rx580 4 gb for 229 last week... Shipped and sold from Amazon. Amazon said one item left. So I ordered. And apparently was backordered. So I am on the waiting list. But I locked in.

If I were building a system today, I would go ahead and invest the money in a good CPU and integrated GPU that can do all of the 4K decoding for me. With some madVR capabilities. Then add a dedicated GPU after prices fall.

The GPU prices are unbelievable. And they've come down a lot since March. But there's no guarantee they are going to settle down to pre-bit coin hysteria prices.

-T
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post #868 of 3082 Old 04-16-2018, 04:44 PM
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LG WH16NS40 SVC NS50 showed up today with February 2018 build, so very likely firmware 1.03. I will confirm and look to down or cross flash it this week.

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post #869 of 3082 Old 04-18-2018, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
If I were building a system today, I would go ahead and invest the money in a good CPU and integrated GPU that can do all of the 4K decoding for me. With some madVR capabilities. Then add a dedicated GPU after prices fall.
-T
Interesting point.

Do you have any suggestion on which CPU and integrated GPU you would use?
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post #870 of 3082 Old 04-18-2018, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
If I were building a system today, I would go ahead and invest the money in a good CPU and integrated GPU that can do all of the 4K decoding for me. With some madVR capabilities. Then add a dedicated GPU after prices fall.
-T
Interesting point.

Do you have any suggestion on which CPU and integrated GPU you would use?
I was looking at the AMD Ryze 5 2400G, and ryzen 3 2200g.

-T
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