Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 32 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #931 of 2870 Old 04-22-2018, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
OK. Maybe I'll try removing the Shark007 codecs and try setting it up on the same HTPC. I already know the HTPC will play 4k rips, but I'm not sure if will support HDR. I forget why I ever felt the need to use Shark007 in the first place, but it was probably to support playback of certain types of video files.
Try following Javs' guide to MadVR, it's totally relevant for 4K rip playback. YMMV, I suspect you won't be able to get the 1060 to run very high settings for that purpose, I had enough trouble getting my 1070 fully stable for 4K rip playback: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49913417
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post #932 of 2870 Old 04-22-2018, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Try following Javs' guide to MadVR, it's totally relevant for 4K rip playback. YMMV, I suspect you won't be able to get the 1060 to run very high settings for that purpose, I had enough trouble getting my 1070 fully stable for 4K rip playback: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49913417
Is there a link to that guide somewhere? I don't recall ever having issues with 4k rips with the GTX 1060 using MPC-BE and the Shark007 codecs.

Is this the guide you're referring to?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49913417

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post #933 of 2870 Old 04-22-2018, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Is there a link to that guide somewhere? I don't recall ever having issues with 4k rips with the GTX 1060 using MPC-BE and the Shark007 codecs.

Is this the guide you're referring to?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-dig...l#post49913417
Yes that is the very same link I provided. With MadVR it all depends on NGU level settings it seems. You don't need majorly high ones for 4K rips though. On the other hand the NGU settings will come into play in upscaling 1080p as Javs points out in the guide.
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post #934 of 2870 Old 04-23-2018, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Yes that is the very same link I provided. With MadVR it all depends on NGU level settings it seems. You don't need majorly high ones for 4K rips though. On the other hand the NGU settings will come into play in upscaling 1080p as Javs points out in the guide.
Thanks. When I saw the link I initially thought it was part of your signature so I didn't equate it to the guide you referred to. I was looking at the madVR setup on the Kodi website and it is quite involved and a lot of the jargon is over my head. Jav's guide certainly simplifies things considerably. I'm anxious to set this up and see how it looks. I love my Shield, but I see why so many people are disenchanted with the video output with 4K material. It looks great with streaming content, but not so much for my 4K rips.
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post #935 of 2870 Old 04-23-2018, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
Thanks. When I saw the link I initially thought it was part of your signature so I didn't equate it to the guide you referred to. I was looking at the madVR setup on the Kodi website and it is quite involved and a lot of the jargon is over my head. Jav's guide certainly simplifies things considerably. I'm anxious to set this up and see how it looks. I love my Shield, but I see why so many people are disenchanted with the video output with 4K material. It looks great with streaming content, but not so much for my 4K rips.
Ironically, I thought similarly when I first so post the comment, so I went back straight away and pulled he link up to meet the colons to avoid it looking like a sig link. Javs' guide really simplifies things, makes it a lot faster to sort MadVR out. Yeah have heard a lot of comments like that regarding the Shield's 4K output.
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post #936 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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News just in...graphics card demand is finally starting to wane:

Taiwan graphic card makers to see shipments plunge 40% in April

Maybe this is the beginning of the end?

I find it amusing to look at the rigs put together by cryptocurrency miners:

Here’s why you can’t buy a high-end graphics card at Best Buy
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post #937 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 07:03 AM
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Yeah, graphics card prices are absolutely insane right now. I'm putting together a standalone HTPC strictly for 4K playback of UHD Blu-Ray rips using madVR. I already have a GTX 1060 card in my main HTPC so I plan to use that card in the new HTPC. I found a great deal on a GTX 1050 to use in the main HTPC as a replacement. I wanted a card with HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2 since my preamp/processor and 4K HDTV require the new standards, but I didn't want to pay the outrageous cost of a new GTX 1060 or above. Newegg had an ASRock mini-iTX motherboard on sale during their Shell Shocker sale the other day so I picked one up. I got a good deal on a new CORE i3-7100 Kaby Lake CPU on ebay and also bought 8GB of DDR4 2400 SDRAM. I ordered a Cooler Master mini-iTX case that can support a dual slot graphics card and use a standard ATX PSU. I already had an Antec 500W modular PSU sitting around not being used as well as a 500GB Samsung SSD. I bought a legit Windows 10 Pro 64-bit key for only $35. I have to deal with a couple of rebates, but that's OK. I also picked up a Noctua low profile CPU cooler on ebay. All total it was about $335 so not too bad. I went with a standalone HTPC so I could also use JRiver Media Center and not have to deal with interfering with WMC.

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post #938 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 05:45 PM
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Will do! I have working Slysoft version of AnyDVD HD, which works well for my BDs needs. I'll see if I need to use Redfox for UHD or not. If so, I'll probably go with DVDFab since I already paid for lifetime AnyDVD and don't like paying twice for something on principle. It'll be at least a week before I get the 1080 card, install it, and test.

The 1080 was about $250 more than a 1060, but it's more powerful and has 2GB more. I won't have to second guess my decision if I couldn't have gotten the most out of MadVR and HDR tone mapping. It's one of the main reasons I decided to upgrade the HTPC.
This upgrade is turning into a nightmare. It took some effort to downgrade the firmware level to make a new LG 16NS40 SVC NS50 into a "friendly" version. I downloaded and installed Redfox AnyDVD HD software and these %$^$ didn't even bother to load their version into a new Redfox directory. Before I realized it, the install overwrote my working, older version in the Slysoft folder in Programs(x86). Geez, how lazy can these guys be not even to bother changing the folder name to their new branding.

My real nightmare is the GTX 1080 card and inability to handle UHD rips or discs. I used DDU to remove all AMD drivers in safe mode and perform a clean install. It works fine playing YouTube TV, BDs, and desktop upscaled to 4K, but I can't get UHDs to play smoothly. UHDs played back with JRiver or MPC-HC only show a new, still image from the movie every four seconds. Instead of smooth playback, I get what can only be described as a slow slideshow. I've turned off MadVR, so know that's not the issue. I tried an earlier 385.28 driver. I tried another clean reinstall of the lasted driver again, but that didn't fix it. I've try defaults and changes to the resolution, but can't find anything that fixes this issue. I've changed input settings in my JVC to Auto from YCB444, but nothing makes a difference. I'm about to yank the thing out, exchange it for another one to see if it's a hardware problem, or send it back for refund and just wait for a new AMD card to come out.

Any suggestions before I go down that road? I ran GPU-Z, but no idea what I'm supposed to looks for. How can I tell if something's wrong with the hardware?

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post #939 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 07:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post
This upgrade is turning into a nightmare. It took some effort to downgrade the firmware level to make a new LG 16NS40 SVC NS50 into a "friendly" version. I downloaded and installed Redfox AnyDVD HD software and these %$^$ didn't even bother to load their version into a new Redfox directory. Before I realized it, the install overwrote my working, older version in the Slysoft folder in Programs(x86). Geez, how lazy can these guys be not even to bother changing the folder name to their new branding.

My real nightmare is the GTX 1080 card and inability to handle UHD rips or discs. I used DDU to remove all AMD drivers in safe mode and perform a clean install. It works fine playing YouTube TV, BDs, and desktop upscaled to 4K, but I can't get UHDs to play smoothly. UHDs played back with JRiver or MPC-HC only show a new, still image from the movie every four seconds. Instead of smooth playback, I get what can only be described as a slow slideshow. I've turned off MadVR, so know that's not the issue. I tried an earlier 385.28 driver. I tried another clean reinstall of the lasted driver again, but that didn't fix it. I've try defaults and changes to the resolution, but can't find anything that fixes this issue. I've changed input settings in my JVC to Auto from YCB444, but nothing makes a difference. I'm about to yank the thing out, exchange it for another one to see if it's a hardware problem, or send it back for refund and just wait for a new AMD card to come out.

Any suggestions before I go down that road? I ran GPU-Z, but no idea what I'm supposed to looks for. How can I tell if something's wrong with the hardware?
It’s your video decoding that’s to blame. I’m assuming the decoding queue in madVR isn’t filling. Try D3D11 Native decoding. That should fix it. How much RAM do you have and what kind of CPU? Also, you might have installed the GPU in the wrong PCIe slot. It should go in the x16 slot. I’m assuming your at least PCIe 2.0?
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post #940 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
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If you still can’t get it going, download CPU-Z and check if you have SSE 4.1 and SSE 4.2 under instructions. You should likely only need SSE 4.1 for copy-back decoding. I don’t think this applies to D3D11 Automatic (Native).

More useful would be to download DXVA Checker and run a benchmark.

I don’t think anything is wrong with the GPU if you have an image and can play Blu-rays. You have a bottleneck that is preventing the GPU from decoding fast enough. Check what Bus Interface says in GPU-Z. It could even be a setting in the BIOS or another device in a PCIe slot.

If not, the GPU is DOA.
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post #941 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 10:07 PM
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make a screen of the madVR OSD and show me your task manager whiling playing a disc.
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post #942 of 2870 Old 04-27-2018, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
It’s your video decoding that’s to blame. I’m assuming the decoding queue in madVR isn’t filling. Try D3D11 Native decoding. That should fix it. How much RAM do you have and what kind of CPU? Also, you might have installed the GPU in the wrong PCIe slot. It should go in the x16 slot. I’m assuming your at least PCIe 2.0?
Here's your response post to my original post a few weeks ago where I described my HTPC. In it, you said that I "have one 1 x PCI Express x16 2.0 slot". I plugged the GTX 1080 into the same spot where the AMD R9 290 was. That card never gave me any problems including 4K desktop and video, just couldn't handle UHD obviously. I just downloaded and checked a diagram on my MB and sure enough, I've been running my video plugged into a PCIEX4 slot for years!!!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-hom...l#post56017006

I'm about to power down and move the card. I feel like Homer Simpson. Doh!
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post #943 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 01:31 AM
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That was definitely the issue! UHD playback works great now. Thanks so much for the help.
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post #944 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 01:42 AM
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Guys sorry if this may not be relevant but my RX580 4GB NITRO + card gets really hot.. Is this normal? I mean it reaches 75 degrees Celsius just when watching a 4K movie? Is that normal? The fans kick in and it lowers the temp but it just the inside of my silverstone sg09 excessively warm..

I never had this issue with the RX560 4GB with the short time I had that card.. The only benefit with the 580 is I am able to pus it to NGU SHARP HIGH for 1080p to 4K upscale in madVR, where as with the RX560 4GB I had it at medium and I can habe NGU SHARP HIGH with 4K luma playback rather than NGU sharp low with my RX560 4GB...

I sometimes wonder is it worth the little extra push as its producing so much heat.. I have read that I can undervolt it etc but I have no idea how to do this?

I am using the card in extended desktop so that I can use HDMI 1 from projector straight into the RX580 and the other HDMI into my Anthem for audio decoding.. Does this way of setup also increase the temps on the card? Shall I just try using 1 HDMI out into my Anthem and connect projector to my Anthem output or does this not make any difference..?

Would really appreciate some help here as the temps are just ridiculous.. All I do is use it to watch movies, I can't understand why the temps are so high?

Thank you in advance guys

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post #945 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 03:06 AM
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75 is fine.
polaris is very inefficient and uses up a lot of power high temps are normal and will not harm the hardware.

the outputs will not have a real effect on temps.
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post #946 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 06:36 AM
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I just posted in the deals thread. MSI RX 580 4GB is back on sale at Amazon for 229. Since it is backordered, you have to select the option to see all of the sellers. Then you'll see the Amazon version for 229. Do back in Stock May 7th.

####Just needs a 8-pin connector. ####

Prices are coming down. But if you don't want to wait, 229 is a steal. Considering everyone else wants over $300. From what I understand, the MSI armor is a middle-of-the-road card.

-T

Edit.
I made an error when I said 6 pin connector. It requires an 8-pin.

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post #947 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 06:37 AM
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75 is fine.
polaris is very inefficient and uses up a lot of power high temps are normal and will not harm the hardware.

the outputs will not have a real effect on temps.
Thanks for your help.. I guess I may create a custom fan curve for example 40% fan speed between 0 and 70 degrees then 60% fan speed from 70 degree upwards or something like that hoping that it will never reach 60 degrees at all if its constantly cooling at 40% fan speed from the get go... Any other suggestions? Thanks

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post #948 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 08:03 AM - Thread Starter
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That was definitely the issue! UHD playback works great now. Thanks so much for the help.
Glad you got it working. I thought it was something more serious related to your CPU.
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post #949 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 02:32 PM
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I just posted in the deals thread. MSI RX 580 4GB is back on sale at Amazon for 229. Since it is backordered, you have to select the option to see all of the sellers. Then you'll see the Amazon version for 229. Do back in Stock May 7th.

Just needs a 6-pin connector.

Prices are coming down. But if you don't want to wait, 229 is a steal. Considering everyone else wants over $300. From what I understand, the MSI armor is a middle-of-the-road card.

-T
don't take a 580 with a 6 pin they need more power than this connector can provide and have to get it anyway.
and there is no 580 i know with an 6 pin they need simply way more... they learned there lesson.

the 480 needed more power resulting in a real scandal even through the hardware was save and any decent power supply/mainboard could handle the "over load" fine.
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post #950 of 2870 Old 04-28-2018, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
I just posted in the deals thread. MSI RX 580 4GB is back on sale at Amazon for 229. Since it is backordered, you have to select the option to see all of the sellers. Then you'll see the Amazon version for 229. Do back in Stock May 7th.

Just needs a 6-pin connector.

Prices are coming down. But if you don't want to wait, 229 is a steal. Considering everyone else wants over $300. From what I understand, the MSI armor is a middle-of-the-road card.

-T
don't take a 580 with a 6 pin they need more power than this connector can provide and have to get it anyway.
and there is no 580 i know with an 6 pin they need simply way more... they learned there lesson.

the 480 needed more power resulting in a real scandal even through the hardware was save and any decent power supply/mainboard could handle the "over load" fine.
Good catch. I edited my post. It is actually in 8-pin connector.

-T
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post #951 of 2870 Old 05-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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Would a AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 with a 1060 6gb and 6gb of ddr 3 ram suffice for 4k hdr playback with madvr?

I know the video card is able to but the cpu is quite old
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post #952 of 2870 Old 05-02-2018, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Would a AMD Quad-Core A8-5500 with a 1060 6gb and 6gb of ddr 3 ram suffice for 4k hdr playback with madvr?

I know the video card is able to but the cpu is quite old
It shouldn't be a problem. If a Core 2 Duo can do it, the A8-5500 can. To be sure, use D3D11 Native hardware decoding and it definitely won't be a problem.
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post #953 of 2870 Old 05-03-2018, 12:08 PM
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Due to having an integrated GPU, would a Ryzen 5 2400G (4C/8T) have any disadvantage against an i3-8100 (4C/4T), on a future upgrade for a GTX-1070/2070(?) level GPU, from a CPU performance perspective?
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post #954 of 2870 Old 05-03-2018, 04:22 PM
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Due to having an integrated GPU, would a Ryzen 5 2400G (4C/8T) have any disadvantage against an i3-8100 (4C/4T), on a future upgrade for a GTX-1070/2070(?) level GPU, from a CPU performance perspective?
Both those cpus have an integrated gpu.

The gpu in the 2400g can do some basic madvr (ngu low) stuff. The 1070 is significantly more capable.
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post #955 of 2870 Old 05-03-2018, 04:26 PM
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Sorry, only now i realized the i3-8100 comes with the UHD Graphics 630.

Is the 2400g good enough to smoothly convert 4K HDR -> 1080P SDR ?
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post #956 of 2870 Old 05-03-2018, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, only now i realized the i3-8100 comes with the UHD Graphics 630.

Is the 2400g good enough to smoothly convert 4K HDR -> 1080P SDR ?
You would have to use DXVA2 image downscaling, but that wouldn't be a big deal, as it's just downscaling. The HDR -> SDR tonemapping is really quite good once you get your target nits right. I have played with it quite a bit. Even at 200 nits, it is a big step up from 1080p Blu-ray.
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post #957 of 2870 Old 05-04-2018, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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@neo_2009 ,

I looked up a benchmark for the Ryzen 5 2400G (4C/8T) and I think it is too slow to downscale 4K -> 1080p, even with DXVA2 image downscaling. I think you would need at least a GTX 1050 Ti. It is slower than my old GTX 750 Ti, which had a render time of 56ms over a 41.71ms frame interval with image downscaling set to DXVA2 and HDR -> SDR tone mapping active.

Sorry to have steered you the wrong way in the previous post.

Reusing an old CPU and motherboard with a GTX 1050 Ti would be a better idea.
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post #958 of 2870 Old 05-04-2018, 10:44 AM
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No problem, you have been invaluable

I already decided i will go forward with the HTPC, but i will try to patiently wait until the end of the year.
As interesting as the 2400G is, i think that for a future-proof option, its better to save a bit more, and go for a better CPU (Ryzen 5 1600 or 2600 depending on final year prices), and a "budget" card as the 1050Ti (180€ ATM).

Nevertheless, till then i still have a lot to learn, so its good to have this type of feedback !
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post #959 of 2870 Old 05-04-2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
@neo_2009 ,

I looked up a benchmark for the Ryzen 5 2400G (4C/8T) and I think it is too slow to downscale 4K -> 1080p, even with DXVA2 image downscaling. I think you would need at least a GTX 1050 Ti. It is slower than my old GTX 750 Ti, which had a render time of 56ms over a 41.71ms frame interval with image downscaling set to DXVA2 and HDR -> SDR tone mapping active.

Sorry to have steered you the wrong way in the previous post.

Reusing an old CPU and motherboard with a GTX 1050 Ti would be a better idea.
I have i5-iGPU HD4600 and will get GTX1050ti but only after getting a 4k display.
For now I am using 3DLUT to downscale 4k HDR ->1080p on my PJ. If using madVR tone mapping with "HUE preserve" then the render time goes up more than 41.71ms, but with 3DLUT it takes off madVR processing and it's ok. Or you can uncheck "preserve HUE".

Last edited by long_pn; 05-04-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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post #960 of 2870 Old 05-05-2018, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
I have i5-iGPU HD4600 and will get GTX1050ti but only after getting a 4k display.
For now I am using 3DLUT to downscale 4k HDR ->1080p on my PJ. If using madVR tone mapping with "HUE preserve" then the render time goes up more than 41.71ms, but with 3DLUT it takes off madVR processing and it's ok. Or you can uncheck "preserve HUE".
Unchecking preserve hue has been replaced by "dumb" tone mapping. Using "dumb" tone mapping and unchecking "restore details in compressed highlights" may get render times low enough to use a 2400g, but tone mapping quality would be lower.

Also, by using a 1050 Ti, you would likely be able to use Bicubic150 + AR image downscaling, which is much more detailed than low-quality DXVA2. I have tested this with two image captures. The difference in downscaling quality from 4K -> 1080p can be quite large.
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