Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 3094 Old 05-05-2018, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Unchecking preserve hue has been replaced by "dumb" tone mapping. Using "dumb" tone mapping and unchecking "restore details in compressed highlights" may get render times low enough to use a 2400g, but tone mapping quality would be lower.

Also, by using a 1050 Ti, you would likely be able to use Bicubic150 + AR image downscaling, which is much more detailed than low-quality DXVA2. I have tested this with two image captures. The difference in downscaling quality from 4K -> 1080p can be quite large.
With a 1050ti, can you use SSIM 1D or 2D for 4K ->1080p image downscaling ?
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post #962 of 3094 Old 05-06-2018, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by long_pn View Post
With a 1050ti, can you use SSIM 1D or 2D for 4K ->1080p image downscaling ?
You might be able to; I'm not sure. Bicubic150 + AR and SSIM 1D are very close. In fact, with some images, Bicubic150 + AR can actually look better than SSIM 1D. But SSIM 1D is better overall. SSIM 2D is likely too sharp for most people, so SSIM 1D is the best overall downscaler.

Personally, I would use Bicubic150 + AR, as the resource use is much lower for very similar quality. Bicubic150 + AR wouldn't be very good for upscaling.
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post #963 of 3094 Old 05-06-2018, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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This gallery includes an image comparison of image downscaling from 4K -> 1080p. SSIM 1D 100% is clearly the best followed by Bicubic150.

Downscaling from 4K -> 1080p
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post #964 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 03:09 AM
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im personally a huge hater of bicubic 150 it is a real problem maker in my eyes and the biggest issue with it is that it is not shown on a still image.

i'm not talking about a small problem i'm talking about really extrem problems.
here an example;

if you downscale this video with bicubic 150 and watch the mountains with it it will show aliasing as if point scaling is used while SSDM dowsn't show any of these problem as for many other scalers.
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post #965 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 07:42 AM
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This may be a no brainer, but I'm new to HDR and all that.

As of now, this is my current setup -

HTPC (GTX 1060) to Sony STRDN1080
(HDMI Video Resolution
 480p/60 Hz
 576p/50 Hz
 720p/60 Hz, 50 Hz, 30 Hz, 24 Hz
 1080i/60 Hz, 50 Hz
 1080p/60 Hz, 50 Hz, 30 Hz, 25 Hz, 24 Hz
 4K/60 Hz*, 50 Hz*, 30 Hz, 25 Hz, 24 Hz
* VIDEO 1 supports YCbCr 4:2:0 8 bit only
Support
HDCP2.2, HDR (HDR10, Hybrid Log-Gamma,
Dolby Vision), 3D, Deep Color, ITU-R
BT.2020, ARC)

THEN from the AVR to my Sony XBR 930E (from ARC on the AVR to ARC on the display).

Is this correct with my equipment, or am I supposed to do this - HTPC -> TV -> AVR??
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post #966 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Scharlau View Post
This may be a no brainer, but I'm new to HDR and all that.

As of now, this is my current setup -

HTPC (GTX 1060) to Sony STRDN1080
(HDMI Video Resolution
 480p/60 Hz
 576p/50 Hz
 720p/60 Hz, 50 Hz, 30 Hz, 24 Hz
 1080i/60 Hz, 50 Hz
 1080p/60 Hz, 50 Hz, 30 Hz, 25 Hz, 24 Hz
 4K/60 Hz*, 50 Hz*, 30 Hz, 25 Hz, 24 Hz
* VIDEO 1 supports YCbCr 4:2:0 8 bit only
Support
HDCP2.2, HDR (HDR10, Hybrid Log-Gamma,
Dolby Vision), 3D, Deep Color, ITU-R
BT.2020, ARC)

THEN from the AVR to my Sony XBR 930E (from ARC on the AVR to ARC on the display).

Is this correct with my equipment, or am I supposed to do this - HTPC -> TV -> AVR??
That looks fine. I'm not sure what you mean about ARC from receiver to the display? It should be HDMI PC -> AVR -> HDMI AVR -> HDMI display. A complete chain of HDMI 2.0 from PC to AVR to display.

Also don't know why 10-bit Y'CbCr 4:2:0 isn't supported at 4K 60Hz. But this shouldn't be an issue with typical UHD content.
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post #967 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
im personally a huge hater of bicubic 150 it is a real problem maker in my eyes and the biggest issue with it is that it is not shown on a still image.

i'm not talking about a small problem i'm talking about really extrem problems.
here an example;

if you downscale this video with bicubic 150 and watch the mountains with it it will show aliasing as if point scaling is used while SSDM dowsn't show any of these problem as for many other scalers.
It's not surprising that Bicubic fails. It's not a very complicated resizer. Photoshop uses Bicubic for resizes, and it doesn't always do a great job. But it does a reasonable job. This would imply many professional images are resized using Bicubic. Bicubic is also used for upscaling, but your not supposed to upscale a professional image, only downscale it. I'm guessing SSIM isn't available to Photoshop, or they would have thought of that already. Bicubic could actually be worse for moving video. It's harder to test that.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-07-2018 at 10:27 AM.
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post #968 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post

That looks fine. I'm not sure what you mean about ARC from receiver to the display? It should be HDMI PC -> AVR -> HDMI AVR -> HDMI display. A complete chain of HDMI 2.0 from PC to AVR to display.

Also don't know why 10-bit Y'CbCr 4:2:0 isn't supported at 4K 60Hz. But this shouldn't be an issue with typical UHD content.

There is an HDMI A&B out on the back of my receiver. B is for a different Zone, A has the audio return channel on it. That's what Arc is.

And thanks for the reply!
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post #969 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 10:46 AM
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Oh, and the specs I posted is what the AVR does.
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post #970 of 3094 Old 05-07-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
It's not surprising that Bicubic fails. It's not a very complicated resizer. Photoshop uses Bicubic for resizes, and it doesn't always do a great job. But it does a reasonable job. This would imply many professional images are resized using Bicubic. Bicubic is also used for upscaling, but your not supposed to upscale a professional image, only downscale it. I'm guessing SSIM isn't available to Photoshop, or they would have thought of that already. Bicubic could actually be worse for moving video. It's harder to test that.
i highly doubt photoshop is using bicubic 150 but 60 is a normal and very low end resizer.
you would be shocked how little professional software care about picture quality and how little professional encoder know.

as always this doesn't count for all.
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post #971 of 3094 Old 05-08-2018, 02:46 PM
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I'm looking to upgrade my HTPC to handle 4k HDR10 H.265 rips. I don't care about upscaling, downscaling or other image enhancements, which I understand is the main point of madVR. However, from what I gather madVR is necessary to get players like MPC-HC to output HDR10 when playing back HDR10 encodes. Is that true?

My plan is to go with a Ryzen 3 2200G as both the CPU and GPU. It seems the Vega 8 is definitely able to handle 4k H.265 rips, but can it also handle madVR if all madVR is used for is HDR?
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post #972 of 3094 Old 05-08-2018, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shadynasty View Post
I'm looking to upgrade my HTPC to handle 4k HDR10 H.265 rips. I don't care about upscaling, downscaling or other image enhancements, which I understand is the main point of madVR. However, from what I gather madVR is necessary to get players like MPC-HC to output HDR10 when playing back HDR10 encodes. Is that true?

My plan is to go with a Ryzen 3 2200G as both the CPU and GPU. It seems the Vega 8 is definitely able to handle 4k H.265 rips, but can it also handle madVR if all madVR is used for is HDR?
Many users on Windows are gravitating towards madVR because it is one of only two players on Windows willing to use private APIs provided by AMD and Nvidia for HDR10 passthrough. The other is DVDFab Player, and it may be limited to Nvidia GPUs.

An AMD iGPU will do the job, but might have limitations in the settings you can use in madVR and less than smooth navigation due to the lack of VRAM. Limitations in settings may cause you have difficulty finding any settings that will work with certain content, but you should likely find something that allows for smooth playback. If you are skipping ahead and back in videos, you could find navigation is not as smooth as you'd like. You would definitely have to lower the decoding queue sizes in madVR.

Also, there is a user in the HTPC forum who is having terrible issues with the AMD drivers with a 2400G AMD iGPU. It is brand new, but HDR playback seems to have stopped working after the last Windows update and his colors are not always correct. This could be a problem on his end, but it is something to contemplate. One other user in this thread also reported problems with color accuracy with a 2400G.

A GTX 1050 Ti or AMD RX 560 are obviously safer choices, even if you don't need the processing power.
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post #973 of 3094 Old 05-10-2018, 02:36 PM
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Thanks for the detailed response.

Am I right to assume that if you're recommending a 1050 Ti, that a 1030 (limited to 2GB models) or a 2400G wouldn't be meaningful upgrades over the 2200G? From what I'm seeing, both the 1030 and Vega 11 are only ~20-30% faster than the Vega 8.

My initial debate was between adding a 1030 to the existing system (which has an ancient CPU), or going with a 2200G w/ new mobo/RAM. I was favoring the 2200G despite the increased cost over the 1030 option (~$280 vs $120), because the new CPU would greatly decrease power consumption (the computer is on 24/7 since it's also our server) and give us modern motherboard features like USB3.1 and M.2. If the 1030 isn't even enough to guarantee smooth HDR performance, then I'll just get a 2200G for now to handle 4k SDR, and then add a graphics card later (perhaps once prices come down) if it turns out 4k HDR performance isn't satisfactory.
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post #974 of 3094 Old 05-10-2018, 05:36 PM
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idle power consumption hasn't changed much in the past 5 years.

and a 1050 ti is still cheaper than a new mobo ram and a CPU.
if you want to placback UHD you will most likely not survive with 8 ram and a API.

edit: and m.2 is pretty worthless for consumer just a good way to waste money.
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post #975 of 3094 Old 05-10-2018, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
idle power consumption hasn't changed much in the past 5 years.

and a 1050 ti is still cheaper than a new mobo ram and a CPU.
if you want to placback UHD you will most likely not survive with 8 ram and a API.

edit: and m.2 is pretty worthless for consumer just a good way to waste money.
Well it's a 9 year old CPU with 125W TDP.

Also, that's the first I'm hearing that a 2200G wouldn't handle UHD playback. If a 1030 can do it (which by most accounts it can with no issues), I'd think a Vega 11, if not a Vega 8, would be fine as well. I thought the only question is whether it'd be be able to handle using madVR for HDR10 passthrough.
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post #976 of 3094 Old 05-11-2018, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shadynasty View Post
Well it's a 9 year old CPU with 125W TDP.

Also, that's the first I'm hearing that a 2200G wouldn't handle UHD playback. If a 1030 can do it (which by most accounts it can with no issues), I'd think a Vega 11, if not a Vega 8, would be fine as well. I thought the only question is whether it'd be be able to handle using madVR for HDR10 passthrough.
The GT 1030, 2200G and 2400G all lack onboard VRAM. There was one user in this thread using a GT 1030 with madVR. With some tweaking of madVR, he was able to achieve smooth playback, but any skipping or navigation within the video would cause the player to skip frames and judder. This is due to the 2GB of VRAM. It is insufficient for 4K UHD playback. The 2200G and 2400G would likely have the same limitation with less than smooth navigation as the decoder queue struggles to catch up after stopping and starting a video. This is particularly true given that you can only allocate 2GB of system memory to the iGPU, even if it is capable of adjusting and using more. Once you get everything going, I'm sure playback would be smooth, but it would not be optimal. You would also basically have to turn everything off in madVR to avoid dropping frames.

Any graphics card with 3-4GB of VRAM would be preferable for 4K UHD playback, with 4GB being the safest. So currently, the RX 560 and GTX 1050 Ti are the best budget cards until more GPUs with 4GB of VRAM are released. If you want an iGPU, both the RX Vega M GL or 870 and RX Vega M GH have 4GB of onboard VRAM, but they come bundled with more expensive Core i CPUs, and I'm not sure if they have been released yet.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-11-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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post #977 of 3094 Old 05-11-2018, 10:06 AM
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I used a GT 1030 2 GB card in my Intel g3258 rig and it was fine for 4k @23/24 playback. However, skipping chapters, ff, or rewind would cause it to stutter, freeze for a few seconds, drop frames, etc. 4k @ 59/60 was not possible.

I replaced the 1030 with a 1050 Ti 4 GB which resulted in a much more pleasant experience.
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post #978 of 3094 Old 05-11-2018, 11:53 AM
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the problem with APU is a little bit more complicated i'm pretty sure it will run fine with 16 GB ram.

the new AMD APU can use as much ram as Vram as they like there will be a hard cap but it doesn't matter and for the fun part it doesn't matter what you set in the uefi for Vram it didn't care and stole as much ram as needed with no notable performance difference and that's the problem while 8 Gb are fine for decoder because you don't have to share that with the GPU. and i sadly i have to say i have no clue if DDR 4 is fast enough for madVR.

125W TDP doesn't tell you how much it eats in idle. you have to check out the idle power consumption to get an idea.
take an Intel Core i3-8100T TDP 35 watt and an Intel Core i7-8700K TDP 95 watt in idle the power consumption will be about the same and even under load it is not clear if the i3 or the i7 will use more power at the end.

if the pc is mostly running in idle you are most likely better of with an new good PSU if you want to spare power specially if the PSU is 9 years old...
PSU in the past 9 years made huge progress
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Looking at some reviews, it looks like systems w/ the current CPU (Phenom II X4 940) idle around 90W (and that's using a mobo w/ integrated graphics, rather than a card), while 2200G systems idle around 30W. Using a power cost calculator, the average electricity rate for my city (15.59¢/kWh) and assuming 24/7 idling, it looks like the drop in consumption with a new CPU would save $80+ a year. Real world will obviously be a bit different, but regardless it seems like the difference will be large enough to be worth it in the long run even if a dedicated graphics card is needed.

The PSU actually isn't 9 years old, thankfully. I believe it's 80PLUS bronze certified (and was well reviewed), which from what I understand means it isn't going to be all that much worse than something new (like a 5% difference in efficiency).

Anyway, I appreciate the continued feedback. One note: I thought the GT 1030 did come in VRAM versions (that'd be GDDR5, right?). Regardless, I'm convinced not to go the 1030 route since it sounds like 2GB is less than ideal even if it is VRAM.

One thing I'm a little hung up on is how streaming boxes like the Shield and Roku are able to claim to handle 4k HDR H.265 video @ 60Hz. Certainly a 1050 Ti is much more powerful than what those streaming boxes are packing, no? And a GT 1030 is at least comparable to those boxes? I guess when I say I'm seeing reports that a 2200G or GT 1030 are fine for UHD, I'm talking about without using madVR (I know...this is a madVR thread). The plan was to turn off pretty much all the madVR features except HDR10 passthrough, but I'm new to madVR so maybe what I'm imagining isn't possible.
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post #980 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 02:02 AM
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PSU loose effciency over the years and are totally garbage in term of efficiency when the load is under 10 % and they are bad with a load under 20 %.

i measured my old x955 with 7 disc and an ssd in it. it is not even at 100 watt at idle.this is done with an really old gold rated power supply.
so let'S do the math.

100 watt 90% efficiency = 10 watt waste by the PSU 90 watt is taking by the PC.

and the PSU is to old to be this efficient
a HHD take about 5 or more watt i have 7 a normal PC has 1 making is about 60 real power drawn which is about 67 watt at the wall so no not 90 watt at all.

so now why madVR can not work properly with little Vram and a roku can.
it'S very simply roku decodes the video with an hardware decoder for little to no power the same as a GPU and now it does the needed changes to it it needs to with bad math in bad quality.
madVR doesn't do that and will do it properly.
so the real problem is not the decoding which is relative free it'S the processing.

just to make the absolutely clear a 1030 has more processing power than any roku has by far.
the Vram problem comes from the 2200g it can only use ddr4 and yes there a new 1030 with DDR4 and nvidia should be sued for selling these under the same name as a normal 1030.
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post #981 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 09:33 AM
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Last Updated: 2018-04-22



What is madVR? | madVR Set up



This guide outlines the hardware necessary to achieve high-performance playback from madVR at 3840 x 2160p.



The current landscape of UHD technology is shifting and true 4K PC support is still new. Therefore, this guide is incomplete and anyone looking to build a 4K HTPC in 2018 should proceed with caution until PC support of UHD Blu-ray and 4K media is more mature.



1 – CPU



It is unrealistic for all but the most powerful modern CPUs to decode high bit-rate, 10-bit 4K HEVC video using CPU-based (software) decoding. The computing power required to decode HEVC is 5-10 times higher than equivalent H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.



Considering the UHD standard calls for data rates of up to 82 Mbit/s for 50 GB discs, 108 Mbit/s for 66 GB discs and 128 Mbit/s for 100 GB discs, even low bit-rate 4K UHD content is close to double the bit rate of 1080p Blu-ray (max. of 54 Mbit/s). Those bit rates include both audio and video. But, coupled with slow HEVC decoding, the load posed by 4K UHD Blu-ray is formidable for any CPU or fixed-function hardware decoder. So we will assume the bulk of difficult 10-bit HEVC decoding will be handled by a fixed-function GPU hardware decoder capable of handling high bit-rate decoding.



Intel Kaby Lake (7th generation) Core i5 or i7 processors are a minimum requirement for compatibility with UHD Blu-ray drives. As well, 6 GB of system RAM and Windows 10 are also necessary. The choice of CPU is only relevant if you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray disks (not rips). Otherwise, any CPU is appropriate as long as you are satisfied with boot times and OS performance. The critical component of a HTPC is the GPU. So don't worry too much about the CPU and motherboard. The CPU should remain mostly idle during HTPC playback.



Intel (with legal UHD Blu-ray disc support):



Minimum: Kaby Lake Core i5

Extreme: Kaby Lake Core i7



Intel (for general HTPC use):



Budget: Pentium

Performance: Core i3

Extreme: Core i7



AMD (for general HTPC use):



Budget: AMD Ryzen 3

Performance: AMD Ryzen 5

Extreme: AMD Ryzen 7



2 – Motherboard



The motherboard should be compatible with the chosen CPU and fit into the chosen case form factor.



Considerations:




  • RAM Types

    (e.g. DDR2, DDR3, DDR4)
  • RAM Frequencies

    (e.g. 1066 / 1333 / 1600 / 1866 / 2133 / 2200 / 2400 / 2600 / 2800 / 3000 / 3100 / 3200 / 3300 MHz)
  • Memory Slots

    (e.g. 2 x 240-pin DIMM)
  • Max. Memory

    (e.g. 16GB)
  • Expansion Slots

    (e.g. 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 for GPUs / 5 x SATA 6Gb/s / 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 for TV tuner cards)
  • High-Speed SSD Slots (16-31.5Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s SATA III)

    (e.g. 1 x SATA Express / 1 x M.2)
  • CPU Overclocking

    (e.g. Intel H97 vs. Z97 / cheap AMD vs. 990FX)
  • USB 3.0

    (e.g. 4 x USB 3.0 Ports)
  • Onboard LAN

    (e.g. 10/100/1000Mbps)
  • Onboard Wireless LAN

    (e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n/ac or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • Onboard Bluetooth

    (e.g. Bluetooth 4.0/3.0 or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • S/PDIF Out

    (e.g. 1 x Optical)
  • Case Form Factor

    (e.g. ATX (tower), mini ITX (small form factor), micro ATX (slim profile))



3 – Memory



Up to the discretion of the user. Larger amounts of RAM than recommended are suitable for PCs that double as gaming rigs.



Minimum: 6GB

Recommended: 8GB



4 – Internal Storage



A Solid State Drive (SSD) is recommended for HTPC use. This will offer the fastest boot times and responsive control of the operating system. A SSD will also improve the performance of media frontends such as Kodi and Emby by significantly reducing the time required to cache and load artwork.



Minimum: 80GB

Recommended: 120-240GB



Data Interface: SATA III: 6Gbit/s; PCIe: 31.5 Gbit/s.



Physical Connector:




  • SATA: 6Gbit/s (SATA Interface);
  • SATA Express: up to 16Gbit/s (SATA and PCIe Interfaces);
  • PCIe: up to 31.5 Gbit/s - actual performance tends to be much lower (PCIe Interface);
  • M.2: up to 31.5Gbit/s - actual performance tends to be much lower (SATA Interface M.2 and PCIe Interface M.2).



More on SSD types here.



More on PCIe vs. SATA here.



5 – Graphics Card



The graphics card is the central component of a madVR 4K HTPC. 4K playback is not the primary concern of picking a suitable card. Rather, upscaling any HD video to 2160p (4K) revolves around the use of costly image doubling – preferably, NGU. High definition scaling factors start at 2x (1080p -> 2160p) and can become as large as 3x (720p -> 2160p). An ideal 4K graphics card would allow for the use of image doubling plus artifact removal and post-processing for FHD content – often combining multiple shaders and upscaling under one profile. Cards with this power will have no problem playing 10-bit 4K UHD.



A secondary consideration is 10-bit HEVC decoding. Hardware decoding is a core feature of 4K HTPCs with the release of UHD Blu-ray. As of 2016, all Nvidia Pascal and AMD Polaris cards offer a full function, 10-bit HEVC hardware decoder. This is the only type of video decoder capable of munching through high bit-rate HEVC without compromising GPU performance.



Video RAM of 4GB may be necessary for 4K UHD playback, while 2GB of RAM is suitable for 1080p playback.



Considerations:




  • 4GB+ of VRAM
  • HDMI 2.0a/b (4K with HDR)
  • HDCP 2.2
  • Fixed-function 10-bit HEVC decoder



Minimum



These are mid-level cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using Jinc/NGU image scaling with artifact removal and post-processing. This allows the user to take advantage of all madVR features, only compromising in algorithm quality (e.g. NGU low or medium) and with high frame rate content (> 25 fps) and interlaced 60i sources.



Recommended



These are mid-high cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using NGU image doubling as well as artifact removal and post-processing. Fewer compromises are required at high frame rates and it is possible to use NGU high quality luma doubling with some profiles. A reduction in settings may be necessary with 4K 60 fps and interlaced 60i sources.



Performance



These are high-end cards capable of the most aggressive settings with little to no compromise playing any content. NGU very high quality with artifact removal and post-processing is possible with all profiles (SD, 720p, 1080p, 4K). Possible exceptions include 4K 60 fps and interlaced 60i sources, which may require a reduction in some settings.



Nvidia:



Minimum: GTX 1050 Ti

Recommended: GTX 1060

Performance: GTX 1080 Ti



AMD:



Minimum: RX 560 (Baffin XT, not Baffin XL; Discussion)

Recommended: RX 580

Performance: RX Vega 64

iGPU: RX Vega M GL or 870 / RX Vega M GH



Note: AMD Polaris cards struggle with NGU image scaling in madVR. This makes equivalent Nvidia cards the performance choice, even if benchmarks between equivalent cards can be similar.



6 – Optical Drive



Pioneer and LG are first to market with 4K UHD Blu-ray drive support. Those purchasing the BDR-S11J-BK (internal), BDR-S11J-X (internal) or LG WH16NS60 (internal) must combine the drive with:




  • Windows 10;
  • 6 GB of system RAM;
  • Motherboard with HDCP 2.2, SGX and AACS 3.0;
  • Intel Kaby Lake Core i5 or i7;
  • Intel HD Graphics 630 or 640;
  • GPU with an HDMI 2.0a/b output.



Note: This only applies to legal UHD Blu-ray disc playback on a HTPC (not the drives required to rip these discs or for other decryption methods).



Cyberlink PowerDVD is the only option for legal playback software of 4K UHD discs on PC. The Pioneer drives arrive packaged with PowerDVD.



PowerDVD UHD Blu-ray System Requirements



Grey Market Decryption – UHD Blu-ray Disc Requirements:







How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD "Friendly" Drives



DVDFab Passkey, RedFox AnyDVD (HD) and DVDFab Player don't require any special motherboard, CPU or other hardware beyond a "friendly" Blu-ray drive, 4K-ready graphics card and available hashed keys for select discs.



The cost of any additional playback or decryption software should be factored in with the cost of the drive.



Drive Specifications: BDXL (triple-layer support)

Playback Software: Cyberlink PowerDVD, DVDFab Player, MPC and other free media players.



7 – Power Supply



The power supply must be large enough to provide the necessary wattage for all components when under load. Other considerations include its size – it must be small enough to fit inside the chosen case. And it should be reasonably quiet – suitable for watching videos in silence.



Websites such as this are available to provide estimates of the power draw of any assembled PC. An example system is shown below:







The 80 Plus certification program (Bronze to Titanium) defines the efficiency of the power supply. The higher the rating, the lower the power usage at a given wattage. Basically, this determines how much power is used by the PSU during normal use.



More on 80 Plus certification here.



8 – Case



The case is up to preference. It must be sized appropriately for the chosen motherboard and graphics card, and fit comfortably into its end-use component rack.



Form Factors:




  • ATX (tower)
  • HTPC (horizontal)
  • mini ITX (small form factor)
  • micro ATX (slim profile)



9 – CPU Cooler/Case Fans (Optional)



If you are not overclocking the CPU, an aftermarket CPU cooler is likely not needed. Most CPUs come with its own fans. If a cooler is added, it is best to choose one with a fan over a passive cooler to ensure additional airflow is provided throughout the case.



A cramped case may also require additional fans to supplement those that come with the case. Case fans can range in size from 25mm to 230mm. Larger fans will produce less noise as they spin slower to move the same amount of air as smaller fans.



10 – Operating System



As DirectShow software, madVR is compatible with Windows operating systems.



Recommended OS (with UHD Blu-ray disc support):




  • Windows 10

Recommended OS (for general madVR playback):




  • Windows 8.1
  • Windows 10



11 – Accessories



Recommended Accessories:







Putting It All Together – Building Your System



Now that the components of a system have been outlined, it is time to build one for yourself!



PCPartPicker is a handy tool for experimenting with various hardware configurations. Thousands of components are found in its database from numerous reputable brands in the PC industry and online parts sites. By creating a user account, you can create multiple parts lists and even purchase individual components directly from the vendor.



When attempting any build with PCPartPicker, I would recommend starting with the case then the CPU, ending with the power supply. The compatibility checker will ensure each part added to the list is compatible with the form factor, inputs and chipsets of the existing components.



Example madVR 4K HTPC Build



Ripping UHD Blu-ray Discs with MakeMKV



The easiest way to create UHD HDR10 media suitable for HTPC use is by ripping UHD Blu-ray discs. MakeMKV has made this process fairly simple. With an UHD "friendly" or official drive, MakeMKV can read the disc, as long as a decryption key for the disc is known, and rip the appropriate video, audio and subtitle tracks into an .mkv container. This is all lossless. The relevant tracks are simply packaged into an .mkv ready for playback by any media player, free or paid. If storage is an issue, the file can be compressed by software such as Handbrake.



UHD Blu-ray disc ripping requires:







How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD "Friendly" Drives



Do not update the firmware of UHD "friendly" drives or it will no longer work. These UHD "friendly" drives are drives produced for normal BR discs (so, AACS 1.0) but with BDXL (three/four layer disc) capabilities.



The downloaded hashed key file must be installed into the MakeMKV data directory (which is set in the preferences - NOT the program directory). This file is updated weekly, sometimes several times a week. So bookmark the above link and return back regularly. The hashed key method is different than the general crack of AACS 1.0 used to rip 1080p Blu-rays.



There are often many versions of each UHD Blu-ray disc, which cover many regions. If your disc is not supported, it is possible to take the dump file created when an attempt is made to open the UHD disc and send it to MakeMKV. That disc will be included in the next hashed key file update, so the disc can then be ripped. This means the creation of hashed keys is virtually infinite.



MakeMKV UHD Blu-ray FAQ



Tip: Set the minimum title length to 3600 seconds (60 minutes) and a default language preference in Preferences to ease the task of identifying the correct video, audio and subtitle tracks.



Other UHD Blu-ray Ripping Software:







External NAS Storage



If using digital media, chances are you require data storage – a lot of it! Cheap USB external hard drives will do, but they do not offer the reliability and protection of Network Attached Storage (NAS).



All NAS offer some form of back-up redundancy (RAID), where data is spread across multiple drives, sometimes allowing for the replacement of failed drives without upsetting the performance of the rest.



There are two ways to go about creating a NAS server:







If you buy a ready-made NAS device, it will come pre-loaded with its own proprietary software. Any drive array can be turned into a NAS using software RAID. All NAS software should be configurable to various RAID levels.



RAID calculators are available to calculate the available capacity of each RAID level and tolerance to drive failure.



Example DIY Builds Using Popular RAID Software:



unRAID NAS Server



FlexRAID NAS Server / Windows Media Manager



Debate: unRAID vs. FlexRAID



Windows Software – Media Front-Ends



The following media front-ends can be used to enhance the experience of madVR video playback by organizing your media collection, providing detailed metadata and artwork for each title. Some front-ends also offer contents from add-ons that can be played through the media player and enhanced by madVR.



Media front-ends with integrated madVR video players:







Media front-ends that support external players:






Are there any “best practice”, “ready made” kits at Newegg? Or is this strictly go get all the pieces and build it yourself?


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post #982 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 02:37 PM
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@JRock3x8

Have you ever built a PC before? If not, it is very easy. Everything is modular. But like anything else, you have to do some research on the individual pieces in order to determine if it meets your needs.
@Onkyoman did a great job pulling this thread together with that first post. It pretty much has all the information you need.

I am not a fan of barebone kits which usually include the motherboard a CPU and a case. Or some variation of that. Unless the barebones kit has everything that you would have bought anyway and then of course you get a discount. By buying in group.

Then AMD makes something called a combat crate which has the motherboard and CPU and the rx580 graphics card. That's 550 bucks. Has way more graphics card than you would ordinarily need but since I have that graphics card and I just installed it, it's very powerful for 1080p upscales to 4k with madvr.

I prefer mid-tower cases with lots of vents for air flow. So that's what I usually focus on first. I usually stick with the ATX motherboard. I like the options of having a lot of slots. For CPU, you can get a very good deal from AMD with a 2200 G ryzen. I like descent power supplies. Usually called 80 + bronze or something like that. Good efficiency.

As for Ram, get something with great reviews not the cheap stuff. Graphics cards are coming down... But if you stick with the recommendations in the thread, and prices are coming down, you might want to wait about a month before you buy a graphics card.

-T
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post #983 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 02:40 PM
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I have built about a dozen PCs but I really have no desire to do so unless there is no other way.


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post #984 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
I have built about a dozen PCs but I really have no desire to do so unless there is no other way.


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Checkout Amazon and Dell for prebuilt systems.

-T
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post #985 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
Checkout Amazon and Dell for prebuilt systems.

-T


Was hoping there was a prebuilt system that people had grown to like.


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post #986 of 3094 Old 05-12-2018, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
Checkout Amazon and Dell for prebuilt systems.

-T
Was hoping there was a prebuilt system that people had grown to like.


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I did consider a long time if I was going to buy a digital storm product. I eventually decided against it and build my own. The link below is pretty well set up for $699 complete.

No dedicated graphics card but it does have a Vega 11 integrated graphics.

https://www.digitalstorm.com/configu...asp?id=1864480

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post #987 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 02:58 AM
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700 for a 2400g is a total waste of money.
no SSD.
no clue if it is OC ram or even dual channel.
600 watt PSU a total waste.
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post #988 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 04:10 AM
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700 for a 2400g is a total waste of money.
no SSD.
no clue if it is OC ram or even dual channel.
600 watt PSU a total waste.
Yup. Good point. That's the problem with all pre-builts I've seen: they cost too much for what you get... and it's hard to know exactly what they are supplying.

But he was looking for a pre-built option.

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post #989 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Reviews are out for the new Intel NUC Hades Canyon with RX Vega M GL and RX Vega M GH graphics.

It is hard to recommend a small PC that can't be upgraded, but at least the iGPU offers reasonable performance with 4GB of VRAM. Of course, you could build a small PC with a 1050 Ti for less money. But the NUC would at least be an OK HTPC in the short term. These iGPUs are all designed for mobile use. So think small form factor PCs.

RX Vega M GH:

"However, with the Radeon graphics onboard, it seems that the focus here really is all about the gaming - and what you are effectively getting is a fully integrated games machine with an enviable level of CPU power. Its graphics capabilities that are noticeably faster than a GTX 1050 Ti, but nowhere near as potent as the GTX 1060 or indeed AMD's impressive RX 570 and RX 580. The notion of this being a VR capable unit depends on the game of course, but the horsepower simply isn't here to hit the base specs set by Oculus back in the day - GTX 970 or R9 290 levels of power are significantly beyond this little machine. The recent reduction in VR spec from Oculus - which brings the NUC into play - is all about using timewarp to effectively bring minimum frame-rate spec from 90fps down to 45fps. It'll do the job, but it's not an optimal solution. On the plus side though, this is a full-blown AMD GPU, meaning that there's full support for everything in the Radeon ecosystem, including FreeSync, plus a (slightly) re-skinned version of AMD's excellent control panel - right down to overclocking via WattMan."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/d...n-hades-canyon

RX Vega M GL:

Only seven user benchmarks, but the GL version appears to be faster than the RX 560:

http://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare.../3926vsm453719

RX 560 < RX Vega M GL < GTX 1050 Ti < RX Vega M GH
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post #990 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 07:26 PM
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Just so if anyone was interested and dosent want to drop tons cash on GPu - i have GTX950 and i can do 10Bit HDR 4K with my AVR
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