Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 07:45 PM
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the hades canyon it a product i don't understand at all.

who wants an i7 with a entry level GPU and no GPU upgrade path for near 1k with missing harddrive and ram.
just get a zotac zbox... or wait for AMD to end this madness with even faster APU than the 2400g for far far less.

HBM on an entry level GPU for what? it cost 3 items GDDR 5.
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post #992 of 3094 Old 05-13-2018, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn’t mention the Zotac ZBOX. That would clearly be a better choice for a small form factor PC.

I would never buy an Intel NUC, but they’re out there.

Edit: I read one more review about the NUC and came across this:

"The Vega GPU can't decode VP9 Profile 2 - so no YouTube HDR support - and more importantly it doesn't support the Protected Audio Video Path technology required for UHD Blu-ray playback."

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-14-2018 at 10:30 AM.
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post #993 of 3094 Old 05-14-2018, 11:42 PM
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This is a pretty lengthy thread to read through the whole thing.
Can someone link me up to the post that describes the ideal settings/configurations for madvr to run on an HTPC with the below specs.

CPU : Intel i7-8700K
MotherBoard : Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 Motherboard
Memory : G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz
GPU : PNY Founders Edition 1080 TI
HeatSink : Thermalright Silver Arrow Tower cooler
PSU : Seasonic 800W Gold
Case : SilverStone CW02

The HTPC is connected to a 4K capable AVR, the Denon AVR-X4400H. The TV is a Samsung 85" 4K with HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

I have a few 4K movies from a friend, i think its a rip from the 4k disk.. not sure it must be torrented by him.. but these are large movie files with folders inside for BDMV, Certificate, Stream etc...
I usually use Kodi, or mpc.
I have tried a couple of settings for madvr on mpc on youtube video tutorials.. but they all mess up the whole movie experience. Either too saturated, or too washed out.
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post #994 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 02:47 AM
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the movies should be in the 40GB range if they are 4k rips
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post #995 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
This is a pretty lengthy thread to read through the whole thing.
Can someone link me up to the post that describes the ideal settings/configurations for madvr to run on an HTPC with the below specs.

CPU : Intel i7-8700K
MotherBoard : Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 Motherboard
Memory : G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz
GPU : PNY Founders Edition 1080 TI
HeatSink : Thermalright Silver Arrow Tower cooler
PSU : Seasonic 800W Gold
Case : SilverStone CW02

The HTPC is connected to a 4K capable AVR, the Denon AVR-X4400H. The TV is a Samsung 85" 4K with HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

I have a few 4K movies from a friend, i think its a rip from the 4k disk.. not sure it must be torrented by him.. but these are large movie files with folders inside for BDMV, Certificate, Stream etc...
I usually use Kodi, or mpc.
I have tried a couple of settings for madvr on mpc on youtube video tutorials.. but they all mess up the whole movie experience. Either too saturated, or too washed out.
There are too many settings for me to recommend now...

In terms of HDR, since your video chain supports HDR10, set madvr to pass thru hdr metadata to the display. If you do that and you still get a mix of too saturated it too washed out, then welcome to he world of inconsistent HDR movies.

-T
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post #996 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
This is a pretty lengthy thread to read through the whole thing.
Can someone link me up to the post that describes the ideal settings/configurations for madvr to run on an HTPC with the below specs.

CPU : Intel i7-8700K
MotherBoard : Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 Motherboard
Memory : G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz
GPU : PNY Founders Edition 1080 TI
HeatSink : Thermalright Silver Arrow Tower cooler
PSU : Seasonic 800W Gold
Case : SilverStone CW02

The HTPC is connected to a 4K capable AVR, the Denon AVR-X4400H. The TV is a Samsung 85" 4K with HDR10 and Dolby Vision.

I have a few 4K movies from a friend, i think its a rip from the 4k disk.. not sure it must be torrented by him.. but these are large movie files with folders inside for BDMV, Certificate, Stream etc...
I usually use Kodi, or mpc.
I have tried a couple of settings for madvr on mpc on youtube video tutorials.. but they all mess up the whole movie experience. Either too saturated, or too washed out.
Set madVR to PC levels, the GPU to Full and the display to Full. Set all color controls in the Nvidia control panel to be controlled by the media player. Disable all gamma processing and color controls in madVR. Set HDR to passthrough and send metadata to display.

The rest is up to experimentation. With a 1080 Ti, you can turn just about everything up to its maximum, so the image shouldn't look bad. But, as has been stated, the quality of HDR content varies.
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post #997 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRock3x8 View Post
the movies should be in the 40GB range if they are 4k rips
I have a few that are above 100gb and most above 45gb to 80gb as well.
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post #998 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
There are too many settings for me to recommend now...

In terms of HDR, since your video chain supports HDR10, set madvr to pass thru hdr metadata to the display. If you do that and you still get a mix of too saturated it too washed out, then welcome to he world of inconsistent HDR movies.

-T
Thanks for your replies. As the madvr thingy is too new for me, i am kinda getting intimidated on where to start from, and most of the stuff mentioned here is like greek to me. Sorry about that.
Is there a thread or a guide somewhere i can follow the steps please?
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post #999 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
There are too many settings for me to recommend now...

In terms of HDR, since your video chain supports HDR10, set madvr to pass thru hdr metadata to the display. If you do that and you still get a mix of too saturated it too washed out, then welcome to he world of inconsistent HDR movies.

-T
Thanks for your replies. As the madvr thingy is too new for me, i am kinda getting intimidated on where to start from, and most of the stuff mentioned here is like greek to me. Sorry about that.
Is there a thread or a guide somewhere i can follow the steps please?
Well, I also referenced this site:
https://wiki.mikejung.biz/MadVR

And this one too:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

They both provided a lot of information on the individual settings. You can also search the Doom9 forum for madvr settings, and their meaning.

You're going to have to do a bit of reading. But it's fun.

Hope that helps.
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post #1000 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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I maintain the second link. I spent most of the effort on removing a lot of the bad writing and improving the technical accuracy, so I'm not sure if that will help you if you don't understand the basics about configuring a GPU or display calibration.

If you feel completely confused, you could provide a list of the content you watch and the model number of your display. Some time this week, I could create a settings.bin file that you could import into madVR as a starting point. It would populate all of the settings with basic options. I am pretty bored with the madVR feature set, so creating a settings.bin wouldn't be much work.

You could then tweak things from there.
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post #1001 of 3094 Old 05-15-2018, 08:02 PM
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https://wiki.mikejung.biz/MadVR should be ignored...
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post #1002 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 12:56 PM
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Well, I've been trying to set up a standalone HTPC for 4K playback, but so far I've gotten two dead motherboards from Newegg. I ordered an ASRock H270-ITX/ac mini-iTX motherboard when it was on sale as part of one of Newegg's Shell Shocker deals a few weeks ago. It would boot to the splash screen but would go no further. I was able to get into the UEFI bios screen once, but couldn't get back to it after numerous reboots. Sent it back to Newegg returns in California and they approved the return and sent me a replacement which I just received yesterday. It booted fione and allowed me to install Windows 10 and all of the necessary drivers and apps. Once I had it configured I shut it down and hooked it up to my TV through me preamp/processor. I selected the input for the PC on the pre/pro and got nothing on the TV. I tried different inputs and different HDMI cables with no luck. I reconnected it to the monitor I had been using for setup and got zilch on the display. The monitor would come out of standby with the PC powered on, but just displayed a blank screen. I got another RMA from Newegg but asked for a refund this time. The motherboard came with a rebate but I couldn't cut out the UPC label from the box without knowing that the board was functional. I asked for a refund because I'm not looking for a third strike with the same board and the rebate had to be postmarked within 30 days of purchase and there is no way I was going to male that date.

I ended up getting a Gigabyte H270N-WIFI mini-iTX motherboard from a local Micro Center that was an open box item. I got it home and discovered it was missing the I/O shield. I got it all set up and installed Windows 10 and all of the necessary drivers as well as upgraded the bios to the latest version. So far everything looks good and it's working on my 4K HDTV. The thing is, these motherboards come with so many different apps that I don't know which ones to install or if I really need any of them. There's very little info on their website or in the user manual so about the only thing I have to go on is the brief description they provide in the download center.

One thing that's bugging me is that I haven't been able to disable the requirement to enter a password to log onto the PC. I went into netplwiz and turned off the requirement but it still prompts me to enter a password to logon every time the PC is rebooted. I hate that you have to have a Microsoft account just to install Windows anymore.
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post #1003 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 01:39 PM
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you don't need a microsoft account and you can create accounts without passwords.
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post #1004 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 03:38 PM
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You can also create a new offline account without a password, log into the new account, and delete the previous account.
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post #1005 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 07:04 PM
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A quick question on chroma subsampling...

I recently installed in rx580 graphics card. I basically left the card settings as is. I realized today when I was playing around with madVR that the signal my Onkyo receiver is receiving from my home theater PC is YCbCr 444... And not RGB 444.

MadVR is configured to Output RGB. So I guess my graphics card is changing it before it goes to my receive it.

I did Google the two color formats... But since I am outputting a fully Chroma upscaled signal from the PC, I'm wondering if outputting ycbcr 444 is bad compared to RGB 444.

Seems like the only downside is my graphics card is making an unnecessary conversion but leaving the upscaled chroma intact.

Basically wondering aloud if I need to change my graphics card to Output RGB.

-T
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post #1006 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 07:16 PM
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the conversation step adds noise if done properly and if not it will add a ton of banding.

beware 99 % off all display needs a special setting to display 4:4:4 properly and some can't do it at all.
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post #1007 of 3094 Old 05-17-2018, 10:26 PM
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What's about Nvidia, does a GTX 1050ti output RGB 4:4:4 ?
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post #1008 of 3094 Old 05-18-2018, 07:20 AM
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all GPUs can output RGB. you just have to tell them to do that.
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post #1009 of 3094 Old 05-18-2018, 08:45 AM
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you don't need a microsoft account and you can create accounts without passwords.
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You can also create a new offline account without a password, log into the new account, and delete the previous account.

OK, this is really weird. I went through the netplwiz process numerous times with no luck. Every time I restarted the PC I would still be prompted to login. I finally gave up and shut it down. I powered it up this morning to finish installing some apps. I did another search on my primary PC and discovered that the setting doesn't actually take effect until you shut down the PC after changing the setting. I did the netplwiz thing again and the box for requiring users to enter a password to logon was still checked so I unchecked it and applied the change. This time I shut it down completely. When I powered it up it booted right into Windows without having to logon so it's working fine now.
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post #1010 of 3094 Old 05-19-2018, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
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the conversation step adds noise if done properly and if not it will add a ton of banding.

beware 99 % off all display needs a special setting to display 4:4:4 properly and some can't do it at all.
I configured the card to Output RGB 444. Simple and Fast Change. Projector handles it just fine.

-T
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post #1011 of 3094 Old 05-23-2018, 12:11 AM
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Hey Guys.. Apologies if this has already been covered before but I need some help please...

My HTPC did the April update on Windows 10 last night and after that I am no longer able to connect to my file server where I share movies to my HTPC via SMB. I have read that this is because of the new update. Is there a way to get this sorted or do I need to use a different way of file sharing from my server located in another room?

Would really appreciate some help and advice.. Thank you all in advance

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
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post #1012 of 3094 Old 05-23-2018, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Hey Guys.. Apologies if this has already been covered before but I need some help please...

My HTPC did the April update on Windows 10 last night and after that I am no longer able to connect to my file server where I share movies to my HTPC via SMB. I have read that this is because of the new update. Is there a way to get this sorted or do I need to use a different way of file sharing from my server located in another room?

Would really appreciate some help and advice.. Thank you all in advance

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
I'm guessing you disabled password protected sharing. All major updates will enable password protected sharing because they don't think you should do this for security reasons. I do it. You will have to disable password protected sharing or enter your credentials (Username and Password).

In Kodi, you can't browse to your SMB shares, also for security reasons, so you have to manually enter the path of your content in Kodi. You should be able to browse to it if you enter the IP address of your server PC in the File Manager. I haven't tried this. I just wrote down the path to content and entered it into Kodi. The path will begin with the name of the server computer followed by the file path.
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post #1013 of 3094 Old 05-25-2018, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkohman View Post
Hey Guys.. Apologies if this has already been covered before but I need some help please...

My HTPC did the April update on Windows 10 last night and after that I am no longer able to connect to my file server where I share movies to my HTPC via SMB. I have read that this is because of the new update. Is there a way to get this sorted or do I need to use a different way of file sharing from my server located in another room?

Would really appreciate some help and advice.. Thank you all in advance

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
Check the Windows 10 forum https://www.tenforums.com/network-sh...3-upgrade.html. There is a solution there by user Access Denied for the network access problem.

Last edited by speedoflight; 05-25-2018 at 04:53 AM.
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post #1014 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 12:36 AM
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Hi to everybody... I have an eight years old htpc and now I want to upgrade for 4k HDR.
I'm thinking about purchase a gtx 1050 ti 4gb.... But now I see that is raccomanded a gtx 1080. How can I do with 1080 that I can't with 1050?

And another question...
I readed that my TV (LG 65 C7V) support only this refresh rates at this resolutions sent via HDMI:
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 
 1080p @ 120Hz
 4k @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 
 4k @ 60Hz 
 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4

The question is.... What is the behavior of my TV when it play a 24p movie? Or a 23,976 fps movie? The panel doesn't sinch with this fps? It remain 30 or 60 or 120hz? And how can it handle the mismatch? It do a kind of frame interpolation or it repaint the same frame x number of time to compensate the mismatch?

My question is fondamentaly for the setting of the refresh rate of my gtx.... How should I set it?

Thanks
Luca.
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post #1015 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 08:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murakami78 View Post
Hi to everybody... I have an eight years old htpc and now I want to upgrade for 4k HDR.
I'm thinking about purchase a gtx 1050 ti 4gb.... But now I see that is raccomanded a gtx 1080. How can I do with 1080 that I can't with 1050?

And another question...
I readed that my TV (LG 65 C7V) support only this refresh rates at this resolutions sent via HDMI:
1080p @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4 
 1080p @ 120Hz
 4k @ 30Hz @ 4:4:4 
 4k @ 60Hz 
 4k @ 60Hz @ 4:4:4

The question is.... What is the behavior of my TV when it play a 24p movie? Or a 23,976 fps movie? The panel doesn't sinch with this fps? It remain 30 or 60 or 120hz? And how can it handle the mismatch? It do a kind of frame interpolation or it repaint the same frame x number of time to compensate the mismatch?

My question is fondamentaly for the setting of the refresh rate of my gtx.... How should I set it?

Thanks
Luca.
If you are putting together a PC for madVR, it is hard to make a long term recommendation as the software is always changing. As of today, the GTX 1050 Ti is a good choice and you can do almost everything in madVR with image quality similar to the GTX 1080. The GTX 1080 will produce a better image, but not by a huge margin, and not directly relative to its price. For a more future proof card, the GTX 1060 6GB is recommended, but it is really a matter of how obsessed you are about using madVR at its highest settings. Many could get by with a GTX 1050 Ti, but the card may be too weak to use some features in a few months, or it might be fine. It's hard to say.

As for your display, it is 120Hz and will do native 24p playback. If this isn't showing up in the GPU control panel, you may need a driver update. You can find more information about your display at this link from Rtings.com.
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post #1016 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 09:13 AM
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It might be wise to wait a little longer, as it's expected that NVIDIA will launch new cards in the next months.
I'm dying to start my HTPC, but i will probably wait for the end of the year to see what the new cards bring to the table ...
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post #1017 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 01:08 PM
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Yes I'm planing to do the same! And hopefully they will bring hdmi 2.1

JVC DLA-X35, 150" 2.35:1 Flat Screen
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post #1018 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 03:29 PM
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I'd like to preface this by saying I'm totally new to madVR, I've never used it!

I'm upgrading my 4k non HDR TV to a 4k OLED with HDR, which I will be getting professionally calibrated and a 3D LUT will be provided at the end. I already have an HTPC (G4560 CPU, 8GB RAM, SSD) which I was running Kodi on and watching 4k remuxes on it. The CPU obviously has 10bit hardware support, so it can play 4k remuxes without breaking a sweat. How much more taxing is madVR going to be beyond 4k playback? Does it seem viable that I'd be able to watch HDR10 content with a G4560 or will a GPU upgrade be needed?

On a somewhat related note... as far as I'm aware, madVR has additional processing involved, why is it needed? Why isn't the source video left untouched? I was told madVR would be my best option for my HTPC, but I don't really understand why.

I appreciate any help given!
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post #1019 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd like to preface this by saying I'm totally new to madVR, I've never used it!

I'm upgrading my 4k non HDR TV to a 4k OLED with HDR, which I will be getting professionally calibrated and a 3D LUT will be provided at the end. I already have an HTPC (G4560 CPU, 8GB RAM, SSD) which I was running Kodi on and watching 4k remuxes on it. The CPU obviously has 10bit hardware support, so it can play 4k remuxes without breaking a sweat. How much more taxing is madVR going to be beyond 4k playback? Does it seem viable that I'd be able to watch HDR10 content with a G4560 or will a GPU upgrade be needed?

On a somewhat related note... as far as I'm aware, madVR has additional processing involved, why is it needed? Why isn't the source video left untouched? I was told madVR would be my best option for my HTPC, but I don't really understand why.

I appreciate any help given!
The integrated graphics won't work well for madVR. It uses the GPU to do its processing because of the processing resources provided by gaming GPUs.

The additional processing done by madVR can be misunderstood. Kodi, for example, does its basic color space conversions, upscaling, processing, etc. at 8-bits without dithering, even for 10-bit sources. madVR by comparison does its color space conversions in 32-bit floating point with high-quality dithering, at output. This alone uses more processing than the average Kodi box running LibreELEC can handle. This expensive math can be considered overkill, but it reduces errors in color conversions due to rounding and other problems with image quality such as banding and mosquito noise. The original Y'CbCr, uncompressed HD video is also calculated in 32-bit floating point. If they thought 8-bits was good enough to not introduce errors, they would have used it. The sensitivity of color space conversions on PCs is made more important by the fact they operate in RGB rather than Y'CbCr.

That is just one basic difference. Other factors come down to customizing the output to match your equipment and personal tastes. You can choose the output gamut, the bit depth, how HDR content is processed, the quality of image upscaling, improve imperfections in the source such as banding, ringing, compression artifacts and noise, because even high-quality sources have imperfections. For example, 1080p Blu-rays come with banding, they are not always shot to look sharp, and can be sharpened, and many are stained with edge enhancement and digital noise reduction. Sometimes processing a video, even an uncompressed Blu-ray, is not a terrible idea. But that can be personal taste. Basic operations like chroma upscaling and image upscaling must be performed on all videos (those pixels must contain something) and madVR will do a much better job than Kodi of interpolating those missing pixels. Proper HDR10 support is also available with full metadata passthrough. Kodi does not offer proper HDR support, and instead does a poor HDR -> SDR conversion, which madVR can also do in better quality.

If you want to know more about madVR's features, try the link in my signature. The first post contains more on the equipment needed for a madVR HTPC. In your case, you may only need a new graphics card to go with your existing parts.

Hopefully, that is helpful.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-31-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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post #1020 of 3094 Old 05-30-2018, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
The integrated graphics won't work well for madVR. It uses the GPU to do its processing because of the processing resources provided by gaming GPUs.

The additional processing done by madVR can be misunderstood. Kodi, for example, does its basic color space conversions, upscaling, processing, etc. at 8-bits without dithering, even for 10-bit sources. madVR by comparison does its color space conversions in 32-bit floating point with high-quality dithering, at output. This alone uses more processing than the average Kodi box running LibreELEC can handle. This expensive math can be considered overkill, but it reduces errors in color conversions due to rounding and other problems with image quality such as banding and mosquito noise. The original Y'CbCr, uncompressed HD video is also calculated in 32-bit floating point. If they thought 8-bits was good enough to not introduce errors, they would have used it. The sensitivity of color space conversions on PCs is made more important by the fact they operate in RGB rather than Y'CbCr.

That is just one basic difference. Other factors come down to customizing the output to match your equipment and personal tastes. You can choose the output gamut, the bit depth, how HDR content is processed, the quality of image upscaling, improve imperfections in the source such as banding, ringing, compression artifacts and noise, because even high-quality sources have imperfections. For example, 1080p Blu-rays come with banding, they are not always shot to look sharp, and can be sharpened, and many are stained with edge enhancement and digital noise reduction. Sometimes processing a video, even an uncompressed Blu-ray, is not a terrible idea. But that can be personal taste. Basic operations like chroma upscaling and image upscaling must be performed on all videos (those pixels must contain something) and madVR will do a much better job than Kodi of interpolating those missing pixels. HDR metadata passthrough is also possible with madVR with a Nvidia or AMD graphics card. Kodi does not offer proper HDR support, and instead does a poor HDR -> SDR conversion, which madVR can also do in better quality.

If you want to know more about madVR's features, try the link in my signature. The first post contains more on the equipment needed for a madVR HTPC. In your case, you may only need a new graphics card to go with your existing parts.

Hopefully, that is helpful.
First off, thank you very much. I now understand what madVR is! You mention Kodi does not offer proper HDR support, is Kodi DSPlayer the exception? Based off of your post, I think I'll just grab a GTX 1060, the prices have come right down on those in the UK. Once again, I really appreciate your help.
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