Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 05:27 AM
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Guys, first of all thanks for the great thread. Lots of interesting info here.

I recently upgraded my HTPC rig from Asus Geforce 750ti OC2 to Geforce GTX 1060 with 6 GB memory as I purchased a 65" Sony Bravia 4K TV and the old card just wouldn't upscale without considerable performance drop however I cannot run more than "JINC" on upscaling in MADVR without getting frame drops... I must be doing something wrong?

I was under the impression that I can run at least NNDEI 32 on Chroma upscaling and image doubling.

When I play a bluray movie (30Gb) I get more problems than when I play a 1080p mkv or even 720p even with quadrupling enabled. I have i3, 8 Gb RAM and SSD disk running Windows 7.

I was kind of hoping that this new Nvidia card with 6gb memory would do the trick... Anyone that can recommend optimal MadVR settings to run all the content without switching between different profiles or am I stuck at Jinc? Oh yeah, can't even go SuperRes 2+ as each level adds at least 15 fps

Also are there any special settings to look out for in Nvidia Control Panel? Many thanks
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post #92 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 05:38 AM
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Try using NGU for luma doubling. NGU-Low should be easy for your GPU, probably you can use NGU-Medium. When using NGU, please disable SuperRes. With high quality sources, NGU without SuperRes should look better than NNEDI3+SuperRes.

Chroma upscaling is much less important. Simple Bicubic60 AR should do just fine there. Or if you have some GPU power to spare, super-xbr AR is a step up. But your highest priority should be on luma/image upscaling/doubling, not chroma.
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post #93 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 05:40 AM
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try to change the power saving option from optimal to adaptive.
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post #94 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimitry1980 View Post
Guys, first of all thanks for the great thread. Lots of interesting info here....
Indeed, let me subscribe and show my appreciation, thanks all for your hard work and sharing.

I am after some help to understand all this 4k upscaling and MadVR settings, what should be the desktop resolution set to for Nvidia card (GTX 1050 Ti in my case): 1920x1080 24Hz or 3840x2160 24Hz? I should have mentioned that I am using Epson 5040UB/TW7300 (EU).

On 1080 the desktop is sharp and the text very clear where on 2160 everything seems blurry - does this have something to do with the (High) DPI settings? What would be your advise please?

Thanks, Axell

Last edited by axell; 12-06-2016 at 07:29 AM.
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post #95 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 07:33 AM
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Use the physical res of your projector. I think it's 1080p?
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post #96 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 07:39 AM
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Thank you, yes 1080p but accepts 4k input...

Resolution

Full HD 1080p, 1920 x 1080, 16:9

High Definition
4K enhancement

Projector: Epson EH-TW7300 _ Screen: Spitfire Home Cinema 120" _ AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X6200W _ Amplifier: Creek Evolution _ Surround Setup: Monitor Audio Silver 7.0.4 Atmos & DTS:X _ Definitely need a subwoofer ... or two!
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post #97 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 08:07 AM
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Does it have some e-shift or similar method to actually try reproduce 4K? If it just accepts 4K but internally scales it down to 1080p then you should feed it 1080p, because the internal downscaling is probably lower quality than madVR itself would do. In that case 4K upscaling is pretty much useless for you.
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post #98 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 08:57 AM
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This is a quote from a recent review:

"...The EH-TW7300 ... accept 4K Ultra HD footage and the projector uses a ‘faux’ pixel shift mode to create a 3840 x 2160p image from its 1080p 0.74 inch D9 chips. This is very similar technology to JVC’s eShift which does exactly the same thing...."

Is this helpful in any way?

Projector: Epson EH-TW7300 _ Screen: Spitfire Home Cinema 120" _ AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X6200W _ Amplifier: Creek Evolution _ Surround Setup: Monitor Audio Silver 7.0.4 Atmos & DTS:X _ Definitely need a subwoofer ... or two!
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post #99 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 08:58 AM
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In that case feeding the projector 4K might produce a "better" image. It might feel somewhat softer but more detailed. But why don't you try both (feeding 1080p and 4K) to the projector and check which one looks better to your eyes?
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post #100 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 09:07 AM
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Thank you madshi; when I am setting up the display resolution to 2160 it seems that the desktop icons/text becomes blurry and not clear and sharp as on 1080 and because of this it looks to me that the picture it's not that good as on 1080...
Am I doing something wrong here?
Will do some more testing tonight then; should I stick with the settings you've recommended on post #92?

Projector: Epson EH-TW7300 _ Screen: Spitfire Home Cinema 120" _ AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X6200W _ Amplifier: Creek Evolution _ Surround Setup: Monitor Audio Silver 7.0.4 Atmos & DTS:X _ Definitely need a subwoofer ... or two!
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post #101 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 09:33 AM
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The projector is not native 4K, so using a Windows desktop image to check how sharp the image is is kind of unfair. You need to test with real world material. After all you're not sitting on your sofa to watch the Windows desktop. Test with high-quality movies, compare which mode looks better to your eyes and use that.
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post #102 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Try using NGU for luma doubling. NGU-Low should be easy for your GPU, probably you can use NGU-Medium. When using NGU, please disable SuperRes. With high quality sources, NGU without SuperRes should look better than NNEDI3+SuperRes.

Chroma upscaling is much less important. Simple Bicubic60 AR should do just fine there. Or if you have some GPU power to spare, super-xbr AR is a step up. But your highest priority should be on luma/image upscaling/doubling, not chroma.
Thank you, I also realized I was on an older version of MadVR and didn't have NGU. This helped. I am around 30 fps now on upscaled bluray movies. Should I push it more or is 30 fps about where one should be?
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post #103 of 3479 Old 12-06-2016, 10:51 AM
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The only important thing is that you get smooth playback with no frame drops (see Ctrl+J OSD). You can up all the algo settings until you start getting frame drops. Priority should be luma/image upscaling. Maybe some debanding because some Blu-Rays have banding artifacts.
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post #104 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
The projector is not native 4K, so using a Windows desktop image to check how sharp the image is is kind of unfair. You need to test with real world material. After all you're not sitting on your sofa to watch the Windows desktop. Test with high-quality movies, compare which mode looks better to your eyes and use that.
It makes perfect sense now but that big discrepancy between 1080 and 2160 desktop/text clarity was confusing; here are a couple of pictures using NGU-high/med combinations - i have the feeling that there is enough room for improvements - any thoughts on more in depth settings?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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Projector: Epson EH-TW7300 _ Screen: Spitfire Home Cinema 120" _ AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X6200W _ Amplifier: Creek Evolution _ Surround Setup: Monitor Audio Silver 7.0.4 Atmos & DTS:X _ Definitely need a subwoofer ... or two!
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post #105 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 03:58 AM
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As I said, for some Blu-Rays a little bit of debanding can help. Other than that I think you're good. Whether upscaling to 4K is beneficial with your specific projector is not something I can comment on, considering that it's not a true 4K projector, but something of a hybrid.
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post #106 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 04:15 AM
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Will consider that as well; thank you for all your support madshi.
I'll do some more testing and will compare 1080 vs 2160 input on my PJ and will post back.
Cheers, Axell

Projector: Epson EH-TW7300 _ Screen: Spitfire Home Cinema 120" _ AV Receiver: Denon AVR-X6200W _ Amplifier: Creek Evolution _ Surround Setup: Monitor Audio Silver 7.0.4 Atmos & DTS:X _ Definitely need a subwoofer ... or two!
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post #107 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 08:57 AM
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For some reason I am not getting Image Doubling when I use the newest few versions of Madvr. I have to go back to version 0.91.1 to get image doubling to come back. Perhaps this is an issue with Jriver? Any thoughts?

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post #108 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 09:15 AM
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The image doubling settings were merged into the image upscaling settings. It's still a work in progress, though.
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post #109 of 3479 Old 12-07-2016, 09:20 AM
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Ah. I see that now when I drill into the settings. Thanks for clarifying.

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The image doubling settings were merged into the image upscaling settings. It's still a work in progress, though.
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post #110 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 07:20 AM
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Did some experimenting with the latest version of Madvr last night. Followed a mixture of the recommended settings in the Kodi thread, and those suggested here.

I decided to scrap all my old profiles and start from scratch. I was using a decent bitrate 1080p movie as my sample as I experimented with NGU and other settings.

The non-scaling settings were mostly at baseline, with these adjustments:

Reduce Banding: Med/High
Dithering: Ordered
No image enhancements

This the mediainfo from test file #1 - a 1080p film.

Spoiler!


Using the above mentioned baseline, and the following Upscaling settings, I was getting perfect playback and it was a breeze for my GPU (1060 SC gaming 6gb (full htpc specs in my sig)).

NGU
Luma: Very High
Everything else: Let Maadvr decide
Upscaling refinement: soften edges - 1

The next test was a TV show, also 1080p/24. Here is the info for that:

Spoiler!


But this file's playback was very choppy, with multiple dropped and repeated frames per second. On the surface the files look pretty similar, though they don't use the same writing application and libraries.

I will leave NGU at High for now, and I'm probably fine leaving it there. But it would be nice to have an explanation for the difference in performance.

For what it's worth, I tried lots of other content down to SD with the NGU on high and nothing was problematic.
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post #111 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 08:26 AM
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In the Ctrl+J OSD which was the first queue (from top to bottom) which was in trouble during those frame drops? In trouble means less than half full.

How high were average rendering times?
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post #112 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 09:07 AM
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Here's how the OSD compares between NGU High and Very High. Looks like the render queue.



Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
In the Ctrl+J OSD which was the first queue (from top to bottom) which was in trouble during those frame drops? In trouble means less than half full.

How high were average rendering times?
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post #113 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 09:10 AM
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Yeah, it seems NGU-VeryHigh is too slow for your GPU. It's not surprising, it's significantly slower than NGU-High. IMHO NGU-High is fine, so no need to worry. I had to make NGU-VeryHigh a lot slower than NGU-High to squeeze some extra image quality out of it, but the difference in image quality is small. NGU-High is certainly better from a "bang for the buck" point of view, compared to NGU-VeryHigh.
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post #114 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 09:26 AM
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Thanks, @madshi . It looks great as it is. It isn't that important, but I'm still curious why the other 1080p file was playing on Very High without any dropped frames.

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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Yeah, it seems NGU-VeryHigh is too slow for your GPU. It's not surprising, it's significantly slower than NGU-High. IMHO NGU-High is fine, so no need to worry. I had to make NGU-VeryHigh a lot slower than NGU-High to squeeze some extra image quality out of it, but the difference in image quality is small. NGU-High is certainly better from a "bang for the buck" point of view, compared to NGU-VeryHigh.
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post #115 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 10:06 AM
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Madshi,

Just wanted to thank you for all of your hard work on madVr and the recent NGU updates. I'm currently using 0.91.4 and simply love it.

I enjoy the simplicity of simply choosing NGU med for luma-doubling and let MadVR decide how to handle chroma. I think you could possibly make the doom9 community happier by making 'let madVr decide' be optional ... though perhaps it already is optional and I'm not seeing how to manually set chroma.

Either way, I'm loving it for upscaling lossless BR rips from 1080p24 to 2160p24 and sending the signal to my RS600 projector (eshift4... faux-K if you will).

Question about 'let MadVR decide' if you have an extra moment. I currently have an AMD R9 280 OC edition GPU... I'm thinking of upgrading to a gtx 1080... Will MadVr decide different based on my GPU? I see that MadVR behaves differently when I feed it a 1080 signal -> 2160 ... and when I feed a 720 signal -> 2160.

Thanks again for you all you do!!

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post #116 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 01:02 PM
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@baniels , the first clip had only 798 lines while the other one had 1080 lines. So madVR has to do 35% more work on the 2nd clip.

@sonichart , madVR currently does not change settings based on GPU speed. At some point I might implement something like that, but not atm. "let madVR decide" is usually optional, except when using NGU-Low or NGU-Medium. In those cases using any chroma scaler other than the default doesn't make sense, IMHO. Because of that in this special situation "let madVR decide" is forced. But in all other situations it's optional.
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post #117 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baniels View Post
Here's how the OSD compares between NGU High and Very High. Looks like the render queue.
try NGU very high with chroma normal that may do the trick and you can run it in real time.
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post #118 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 02:24 PM
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Haven't found it anywhere, but very interested in this:

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Ge...-specification
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post #119 of 3479 Old 12-08-2016, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtscribe View Post
Haven't found it anywhere, but very interested in this:

https://www.msi.com/Graphics-card/Ge...-specification
If the 1060 isn't even that advisable for decent MadVR set ups, I don't think the 1050 will not be the wisest choice - unless you're locked into a world of 1080p displays and low level processing for the foreseeable future. If its for 4K applications I'd say pass.

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post #120 of 3479 Old 12-09-2016, 12:29 AM
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i'm pretty sure a 1050 TI is a fine card for UHD.
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