Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 5 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #121 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 02:10 AM
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I have the GTX 1050 Ti and it seems fine for NGU med/high upscaling (0.91.3); i tried a native 4k sample and struggles but it might be just me using the wrong settings - still learning and testing though - feel free to add your thoughts/suggestions.
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post #122 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
the first clip had only 798 lines while the other one had 1080 lines. So madVR has to do 35% more work on the 2nd clip.
DOH. Of course. I missed the simplest explanation.

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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
try NGU very high with chroma normal that may do the trick and you can run it in real time.
I'll give that a try. But honestly it is looking very good on NGU High to my eyes.
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post #123 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axell View Post
I have the GTX 1050 Ti and it seems fine for NGU med/high upscaling (0.91.3); i tried a native 4k sample and struggles but it might be just me using the wrong settings - still learning and testing though - feel free to add your thoughts/suggestions.
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
i'm pretty sure a 1050 TI is a fine card for UHD.
Pretty much my point, as Axell says "seems fine for NGU med/high". If you're going to buy a new card, why skimp and get lesser processing power unless your forced by budget to do so..
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post #124 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
I wouldn't want anything less than a gtx 1060 for madvr 4k.
Could you amplify a bit on on your reasons why? Is that driven by future-proofing? Or current 4K needs? Is your determination guided by # of Cores, or Flops? (or some other metrics?)

Also, I'm still unclear on what realistic VRAM requirements are. It's been stated here that 2GB cards won't cut it, and 4GB is a minimum requirement. But I'm wondering if on the card families with 3GB/6GB options, if 3GB is also inadequate?
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post #125 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Whether upscaling to 4K is beneficial with your specific projector is not something I can comment on, considering that it's not a true 4K projector, but something of a hybrid.
Just to provide you with a little feedback, there are a number of folks who are using madVR-4k with their JVC 4K-eshift projectors, and getting significantly superior results over just feeding the 2K material in directly. The eshift there can do it's own upscaling, which will smooth an incoming 2K image to '4K', effectively generating something in the 3K range. The end-result looks more detailed, though a bit less 'sharp' (exactly what one would expect). However, the newest JVC's also accept true 4K input, then extract a pair of offset and overlaid 2K images from each frame, and present that in their 4K display. That's essentially a small down-convert from what true-4K would offer.

In that case, madVR-generated 4K input provides a notably better result, which Javs has documented in comparison images in the JVC-PJ threads. In fact, 2K Blu-ray images upscaled by madVR to 4K on that PJ look almost identical to true 4K-input from UHD materials, that were sourced from 2K DIs. To accomplish that, Javs is using a $$$ GTX 1080, and some of us are educating ourselves about madVR to be able to decide what level of video card below that will achieve results that are "close". I.e., how low can we go? That seems to be somewhere in the 1050/1060 neighborhood, from what I've been reading.
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post #126 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 11:07 PM
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Not sure why everyone is so fixated on having a GTX1080? The 1070 does absolutely fine with headroom to spare for upscaling 2k (or 1080p/720p sources as well) to 4k, while costing less.

I'm on an older 980Ti and it doesn't really have too much of an issue either after doing a bios mod for the card (which is pretty much equal to a 1070 in performance, if not slightly faster ) - thereby removing all of the silly power limits, thermal limits (which was internally set to 63c for the first throttling point, ridiculous), and have none of that rubbish "GPU boost" gimmick. Basically, I'm just having the card run at its maximum potential when there's any kind of load that puts the GPU above 30% usage. For me, there will not be any sudden drop in clock speeds, producing dropped frames for absolutely no reason.

While it's very difficult at this point to bios mod a Pascal based card, it is also at the same time a little easier to give these cards a higher power limit and higher thermal limit, keeping them there before they throttle themselves into oblivion. Try it out.
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post #127 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 11:20 PM
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I should probably do more reading before posting this, but I am sort of lost in the wilderness and launching a cry for help.

A neighbor and I are setting up his budget home theater and just stumbled across this thread. We have never heard of MadVR before and probably not really in the same league as most of you.

He has the Samsung 55" KU6300 tv http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6300 and an MSI 990FXA main board https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/990F...#hero-overview with FX8320 cpu https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php...t-Core&id=1782

but has not yet updated the Nvidia 560 or 650 graphics (he has one of each). He also has a server and will be configuring the software RAID soon but the machine is an intel quad core2 or similar AMD (not sure which). He accumulated an assortment of several 1TB drives in the server and the HTPC/gaming (both are fully populated) but most of his drives are older and all are mid level consumer version so not the fastest.

His games are all old but he hopes to try out some new titles once the system/network is functional.

We are trying to figure out what strategy makes sense for him given the limitations of budget (pretty much gone) and the existing equipment he just purchased (listed above). Are we in the right place here, or is MadVR above the level we are playing?

Can he use MadVR with his existing graphics or would there be no benefit?

Would MadVR with adequate/upgraded graphics help with the motion issue of the Samsung TV, or would there be no benefit? His TV seems limited to 60Hz refresh and movie playback judders. Seems there is no native interpolation either. That was the tradeoff we figured was the least offensive at his budget, and the extra brightness was also a factor. Neither of us seems to have any issue with the 'cartoon-like' appearance of motion interpolation that others complain of. It looked fine to us on my Laservue before it croaked. We have sort of gotten used to the judder of his Samsung but it still grabs my attention when I visit. It would be nice to eliminate it.

From the equipment list on the first post I take it that he needs to capture his cable box RF output with a digital TV tuner card and then play it back through HDMI with 4K upscaling and motion interpolation via MadVR? Is that the signal path you use? (Xfinity bandwidth has been terrible lately but there is a new service available we are checking into, provided by the building management -- maybe they are trying to transition everyone to the new system to improve our bandwidth).

Does MadVR work with Internet streaming media via Flash/Silverlight? Does it work with gaming, or not needed (gaming does its own video processing, right)?

Would MadVR help with upscaling to HDR? His TV outputs about half the nits of true HDR but we are not sure how/if to enable it. Our attempts just seemed to add 'glare' and we are concerned it might shorten the life of the LED backlight. We have not tried any programming with HDR content yet and not sure how.

Would MadVR help with upscaling to 4K? Currently he has Xfinity HD cable and no 4K playback devices or media, but he plans on upgrading to Netflix 4K streaming and trying out some 4K bluray. I am assuming that the motion benefit is probably a slam-dunk but the image benefits of better upscaling algorithm probably either do not apply to his display or would not be noticeable with a 55" TV unless his face is right in the display?

We do not know how to proceed here, having zero prior experience with 4K and no local friends in that game either, just AVS Forum. Should he try upgrading the graphics and/or installing MadVR, or is it just not going to make a difference on that Samsung display? Neither one of us is riding the bleeding edge but we would like to learn how to maximize what he has since he has gone to the trouble of buying the TV and upgrading his PC.
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post #128 of 3066 Old 12-09-2016, 11:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzHDHT View Post
Pretty much my point, as Axell says "seems fine for NGU med/high". If you're going to buy a new card, why skimp and get lesser processing power unless your forced by budget to do so..
That is a good point. If you're trying to get the most you can out of a card you already have, that's fine.

But if you're evaluating a new vidcard purchase, it makes sense to ensure you have adequate processing power to really take advantage of the extra-goodness that madVR has to offer. Balancing that against price, heat, and noise considerations.

For those of us looking for reports by owners of real-world experience to gauge this, we need to be careful to distinguish between things like "seems fine" and "works great". Or, "handles NGU-Med/High", vs. NGU-VeryHigh. Which are unfamiliar to us. And in each case, what resources may be left over to deal with banding, chroma, etc., etc.

On a personal basis, I can't see myself going beyond something in the GTX-1060 class (price, heat). If it turns out that even that's not adequate, I may just put things off until the situation improves (whenever that may be). Unless that's so far out I need to buy a 'throwaway' in the interim. As it is, I already deferred picking up a card during the holiday BF and CM sales (my original plan), and may continue to do so until I'm actually in a position to put another HTPC together. Which at this point is looking farther out every day (was originally Nov, now more like Feb/Mar). The upside of that is that it gives me some time to get up to speed knowledge-wise, rather than making a quick impulse-buy on a "good deal". (Which is a mistake I hate to admit I came close to making. )
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post #129 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
I should probably do more reading before posting this, but I am sort of lost in the wilderness and launching a cry for help.
Wow. You've got like a million questions there! It would take a lot longer to address them properly than what I have at the moment. And some of them really aren't suitable for discussion in this topic (very tangential). But I will say it seems like there is a desire to have all the gee-wiz, whiz-bang, hot-buzzword goodie features... without really knowing what any of them are. There's no crime in that, but you do need to know a bit more about what you want, before you can start to move towards making it happen. Like most things in life.

For example: "Would MadVR help with upscaling to HDR?", the answer is 'no' because you have to start with a source that already has HDR. You can't upscale TO it, with madVR or anything else. And even once you do have HDR throughout your chain, not everyone is in agreement that it is all that great. No matter how heavily it gets promoted.

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We are trying to figure out what strategy makes sense for him given the limitations of budget (pretty much gone)
Well, if the budget is gone, that makes things easy! You just have to work with what you've got, and try to optimize that. Though possibly doing some research and analysis BEFORE the budget was gone may have been helpful.

And also,
Quote:
I take it that he needs to capture his cable box RF output with a digital TV tuner card and then play it back through HDMI with 4K upscaling and motion interpolation via MadVR?
No, capturing RF output from his cable-box isn't going to work. The modulated-RF out there isn't even HD to begin with. You mentioned Xfinity, and they encrypt everything coming down their pipeline now, including free-OTA content. So while you could insert a splitter and send the signal to both the cable box AND a digital TV tuner card, unless that is one that handles 'protected content', you won't even have a signal to work with. [and to be clear, such cards DO exist... I'm just not sure what can be done with the signal inside the 'protected domain' once you've acquired it. a topic for somewhere else.]


The biggest question is how much value he is going to get out of 4K in the first place. I understand he now has a 55" UHD-TV (which are selling like hot-cakes), and probably would like to see some value out of that purchase. And sourcing that with Netflix 4K and a UHD disc player will give him the best quality, the fastest, and most easily. But to take advantage of madVR upscaling of his existing 2K source materials will take a better vidcard than he currently has (to have anything meaningful beyond the upscaling either his TV or his planned UHD disc player could provide by themselves). And that may not be worthwhile. It depends a lot on how far from his TV he will be sitting (and how good his eyesight is! ) But if he's not sitting very close, what he will already have may be all the upscaling quality he will need. Thus potentially no role for madVR in that particular configuration.

So he could discover with some surprise that he's just fine with playing his BR-discs in his new UHD player (letting IT do the upscaling), and letting his new TV handle upscaling to its 4K panel of all his other existing source materials. Thus my recommendation would be for him to start there, get his feet wet with what he has (and has planned), and then move on from that point. He will then be in a position to know if he's just throwing away money, or buying himself some real value. Otherwise he might wind up spending a lot of time and money to get all this set up; and one day accidentally flip between A and B, and say "I can't see anything different! Why did I waste all that money?"

I hope this starts to clear away the fog a bit.

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post #130 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 01:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
That is a good point. If you're trying to get the most you can out of a card you already have, that's fine.

But if you're evaluating a new vidcard purchase, it makes sense to ensure you have adequate processing power to really take advantage of the extra-goodness that madVR has to offer. Balancing that against price, heat, and noise considerations...
Quick test last night with 0.91.4 - thanks to madshi.

Image Upscaling/NGU high/Let madvr decide for everything else (chroma,upscaling,downscaling) + activ 200%supersampling = Beautiful Job. At least to my eyes it looks amazing and I am very pleased with the results.

On the other hand, once i've hit NGU very high it's trouble - the card cannot handle it. ~Let madvr decide for everything else (chroma,upscaling,downscaling)~

Looking now at the existing GTX range 1050 Ti _ 1060 _ 1070 _ 1080 and after my recent experience with 1050 Ti I would say the obvious jump (personal opinion) will be 1070 but the increase in price is significant: from £150 for GTX 1050 Ti to £350 for GTX 1070.

I don't think the 1060 it's going to cut it (just my thoughts) so i wouldn't bother with 1060 at this point (£230 6GB GTX 1060) - please advise if otherwise.

I would appreciate now your input is it worth spending double the money for GTX 1070 to be able to do NGU very high? Would this be a major step up and obvious difference that will worth the £££?

Regards, Axell

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post #131 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
Just to provide you with a little feedback, there are a number of folks who are using madVR-4k with their JVC 4K-eshift projectors, and getting significantly superior results over just feeding the 2K material in directly. The eshift there can do it's own upscaling, which will smooth an incoming 2K image to '4K', effectively generating something in the 3K range. The end-result looks more detailed, though a bit less 'sharp' (exactly what one would expect). However, the newest JVC's also accept true 4K input, then extract a pair of offset and overlaid 2K images from each frame, and present that in their 4K display. That's essentially a small down-convert from what true-4K would offer.

In that case, madVR-generated 4K input provides a notably better result, which Javs has documented in comparison images in the JVC-PJ threads. In fact, 2K Blu-ray images upscaled by madVR to 4K on that PJ look almost identical to true 4K-input from UHD materials, that were sourced from 2K DIs. To accomplish that, Javs is using a $$$ GTX 1080, and some of us are educating ourselves about madVR to be able to decide what level of video card below that will achieve results that are "close". I.e., how low can we go? That seems to be somewhere in the 1050/1060 neighborhood, from what I've been reading.
Good to hear! Upscaling Blu-Rays to 4K is probably the best use case for the new NGU algorithm, because NGU needs high quality sources to shine.

I'm not completely sure which kind of GPU is needed to do 1080p -> 4K upscaling. Of course much depends on which NGU quality level you're aiming at. NGU-VeryHigh consumes about 3x as much performance as NGU-High, while only looking slightly better. IMHO NGU-High is good enough. So you should probably try to get a GPU which can do NGU-High for 1080p -> 4K. I would guess that the 1060 probably can do that, but I can't say for sure. Maybe someone with a 1060 can confirm?

There may be some more quality steps in the future, e.g. one between NGU-High and NGU-VeryHigh, with speed nearer to NGU-High, and quality right in the middle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
We are trying to figure out what strategy makes sense for him given the limitations of budget (pretty much gone) and the existing equipment he just purchased (listed above). Are we in the right place here, or is MadVR above the level we are playing?

Can he use MadVR with his existing graphics or would there be no benefit?
I'd say just give it a try. At least NGU in "low" quality mode should be possible with 650, I would guess. Maybe even "medium".

Quote:
Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
Would MadVR with adequate/upgraded graphics help with the motion issue of the Samsung TV, or would there be no benefit? His TV seems limited to 60Hz refresh and movie playback judders.
Activate "smooth motion" in madVR and the judder will be gone.

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Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
Does MadVR work with Internet streaming media via Flash/Silverlight? Does it work with gaming, or not needed (gaming does its own video processing, right)?
Flash/Silverlight have their own renderers, I think. That will probably not work, unless you find a media player which supports both madVR and Flash/Silverlight sources.

Gaming is a totally different topic and doesn't compete/contradict madVR usage in any way.

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Originally Posted by CherylJosie View Post
Would MadVR help with upscaling to HDR?
There's not really any useful HDR content available for PC playback atm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axell View Post
Image Upscaling/NGU high/Let madvr decide for everything else (chroma,upscaling,downscaling) + activ 200%supersampling = Beautiful Job. At least to my eyes it looks amazing and I am very pleased with the results.

On the other hand, once i've hit NGU very high it's trouble - the card cannot handle it.
Just because NGU-VeryHigh exists that doesn't mean you have to use it. It's slightly better than NGU-High, but not that much, while performance is *much* slower than NGU-High. IMHO NGU-High is plenty good enough.
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post #132 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
...Upscaling Blu-Rays to 4K is probably the best use case for the new NGU algorithm, because NGU needs high quality sources to shine...Just because NGU-VeryHigh exists that doesn't mean you have to use it. It's slightly better than NGU-High, but not that much, while performance is *much* slower than NGU-High. IMHO NGU-High is plenty good enough.
Good to hear this and thank you for all your hard work madshi - amazing stuff!

I might stick with my setup for now (GTX 1050 Ti) untill next generation GPU's or if there will be an obvious need to upgrade.

Enjoy!

Cheers, Axell

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post #133 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
Good to hear! Upscaling Blu-Rays to 4K is probably the best use case for the new NGU algorithm, because NGU needs high quality sources to shine.

I'm not completely sure which kind of GPU is needed to do 1080p -> 4K upscaling. Of course much depends on which NGU quality level you're aiming at.
Thanks. I would not expect that from you. You've provided the flexible tools to achieve a wide range of results, and it's up to us how to use them most effectively.

Quote:
NGU-VeryHigh consumes about 3x as much performance as NGU-High, while only looking slightly better.
But this info from the Developer is unique insight, and extremely valuable. Exactly the type of guidance we can all benefit from. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by axell View Post
Quick test last night with 0.91.4 - thanks to madshi.

Image Upscaling/NGU high/Let madvr decide for everything else (chroma,upscaling,downscaling) + activ 200%supersampling = Beautiful Job. At least to my eyes it looks amazing and I am very pleased with the results.

On the other hand, once i've hit NGU very high it's trouble - the card cannot handle it. ~Let madvr decide for everything else (chroma,upscaling,downscaling)~

Looking now at the existing GTX range 1050 Ti _ 1060 _ 1070 _ 1080 and after my recent experience with 1050 Ti I would say the obvious jump (personal opinion) will be 1070 but the increase in price is significant: from £150 for GTX 1050 Ti to £350 for GTX 1070.

I don't think the 1060 it's going to cut it (just my thoughts) so i wouldn't bother with 1060 at this point (£230 6GB GTX 1060) - please advise if otherwise.

I would appreciate now your input is it worth spending double the money for GTX 1070 to be able to do NGU very high? Would this be a major step up and obvious difference that will worth the £££?

Regards, Axell
Check prices on 2nd or 3rd hand 980Tis? They should definitely be cheaper than 1070s and yet is as fast (noticeably faster, once you do a simple bios mod to unlock its potential).

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post #135 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 09:15 AM
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Check prices on 2nd or 3rd hand 980Tis? They should definitely be cheaper than 1070s and yet is as fast (noticeably faster, once you do a simple bios mod to unlock its potential).
Thank you for suggestions but I am not comfortable with 2nd/3rd hand GPU but it's just me; I am willing to wait for the next gen GPU though; very pleased with my setup for the moment.

Cheers, Axell

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post #136 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 09:47 AM
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i wouldn't skip a hardware HEVC decoder for an UHD HTPC even through the content isn't there yet.
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post #137 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 11:19 AM
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Thank you for suggestions but I am not comfortable with 2nd/3rd hand GPU but it's just me; I am willing to wait for the next gen GPU though; very pleased with my setup for the moment.

Cheers, Axell
Understood. Volta is unfortunately still quite a long ways off. Will be 2018 at the earliest before we start seeing it.

*EDIT*
There could be "refreshed" Pascal cards this year (a.k.a model rebranding plus some minor optimizations). So perhaps you can wait till then to look for an upgrade.

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post #138 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 11:41 AM
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...There could be "refreshed" Pascal cards this year (a.k.a model rebranding plus some minor optimizations). So perhaps you can wait till then to look for an upgrade.
I am open to suggestions and willing to upgrade but only if really needed.

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post #139 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 11:50 AM
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well it should be able to that if 960 has 4Gb vram with 2Gb it should be impossible.
What's the issue with only 2GB of VRAM?

NB: I should have added, does that apply to 3GB as well, on those cards with 3/6GB options?

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post #140 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 12:03 PM
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Wow. You've got like a million questions there!
and some really helpful answers
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But if he's not sitting very close, what he will already have may be all the upscaling quality he will need.
That was sort of my impression too. I know that at 55" he barely gets much benefit from even full HD over 720p unless he sits within a couple of feet of the display.
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Otherwise he might wind up spending a lot of time and money to get all this set up; and one day accidentally flip between A and B, and say "I can't see anything different! Why did I waste all that money?"
I suspect it is more likely he will get his gaming configured and just get lost in it while ignoring the judder that apparently cannot be fixed in his streaming sources anyway without functional pulldown in the TV, at least that is my conclusion based on the feedback to my questions. DRM seems to be locking him into that judder on a significant portion of the media he watches.

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I'd say just give it a try. At least NGU in "low" quality mode should be possible with 650, I would guess. Maybe even "medium".
...
Activate "smooth motion" in madVR and the judder will be gone.
Got it, thanks. That's the plan then.
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There's not really any useful HDR content available for PC playback atm.
I suppose I need to find out where to get any HDR content at all so we can try it out. That was one of the selling points for the Samsung. It was the brightest display in that price range.

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Check prices on 2nd or 3rd hand 980Tis? They should definitely be cheaper than 1070s and yet is as fast (noticeably faster, once you do a simple bios mod to unlock its potential).
Normally, I would agree on used purchase having great value, however, when pursuing the bleeding edge I am not in favor of overclocking or unlocking someone else's used hardware with yesterday's technology inside. Better to just shoot for your goal in new hardware.

At least in the semiconductor world, when part of the function is disabled to create product differentiation, it is either untested in that mode, or more likely it was tested and failed something in that mode. The failure might not show up immediately, or ever, and it might only affect a pixel here and there, but when your PC crashes intermittently it can be a hassle to debug the problem if naively ignoring the possibility that modifying the function of the hardware might have caused the failure.

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i wouldn't skip a hardware HEVC decoder for an UHD HTPC even through the content isn't there yet.
The problem with not having content is the inability to test the hardware properly until such content is available, and the added functionality might not add any value at all if that particular standard flops in the marketplace. My experience with future-proofed bleeding edge functions is they almost never perform as advertised and often miss the thrust of the marketplace entirely.

We are discussing a hardware decoder here. Those blocks are not loaded in from firmware that can be updated in the driver, rather the logic is hard-coded in a circuit module and added in as a stand-alone block. If there is a bug in it you are stuck, even assuming you eventually need it.

The time to invest in technology is when you actually have a use for it. Probably better to delay the purchase as long as possible if anticipating a future need rather than buy early in the anticipation of getting some actual benefit. The future is a moving target. It is much easier to shoot at it from close up.
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post #141 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
What's the issue with only 2GB of VRAM?

NB: I should have added, does that apply to 3GB as well, on those cards with 3/6GB options?
scaling to UHD with default madVR settings uses about 2 GB of Vram. if you run out of Vram performance will drop.
3GB could work but changing some settings will increase Vram usages like NGU and you may run out of Vram.
i don't see a problem with 4 or 6 GB at least yet.

@CherylJosie

if you want to watch UHD HEVC content than there is no real way around a hardware decoder. the HEVC hardware decoder for nvidia is as old as the 960 and it is test with nearly every HEVC file that matches it specs.

same could be said about youtube VP9 10 bit but only the 1050/1050 ti have this hardware decoder.
i9 don't think this should be ignored. if someone doesn't need this he can clearly decide for him self to buy a card that doesn't support this.
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post #142 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 01:18 PM
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I have a GTX 960 card going into a LG B6 Oled and every time I try to change the desktop resolution to native, I get flickering lines on the screen.

The screen can display UHD HDR movies from a Panasonic player, but it won't take a 4k resolution setting from my HTPC.

Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

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post #143 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
scaling to UHD with default madVR settings uses about 2 GB of Vram. if you run out of Vram performance will drop.
3GB could work but changing some settings will increase Vram usages like NGU and you may run out of Vram.
i don't see a problem with 4 or 6 GB at least yet.

@CherylJosie

if you want to watch UHD HEVC content than there is no real way around a hardware decoder. the HEVC hardware decoder for nvidia is as old as the 960 and it is test with nearly every HEVC file that matches it specs.

same could be said about youtube VP9 10 bit but only the 1050/1050 ti have this hardware decoder.
i9 don't think this should be ignored. if someone doesn't need this he can clearly decide for him self to buy a card that doesn't support this.
Sounds reasonable, except for the part where no content is available to actually make use of it until the market proves itself, but otherwise conceded. It depends on how bloody your bleeding edge is. In my case it is more a matter of the hemorrhaging wallet.

I think I should bow out of the conversation now. Got what I needed, nothing else to contribute. Thanks guys. Have fun with your toys this Christmas.
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post #144 of 3066 Old 12-10-2016, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by VideoGrabber View Post
Wow. You've got like a million questions there! It would take a lot longer to address them properly than what I have at the moment. And some of them really aren't suitable for discussion in this topic (very tangential). But I will say it seems like there is a desire to have all the gee-wiz, whiz-bang, hot-buzzword goodie features... without really knowing what any of them are. There's no crime in that, but you do need to know a bit more about what you want, before you can start to move towards making it happen. Like most things in life.

For example: "Would MadVR help with upscaling to HDR?", the answer is 'no' because you have to start with a source that already has HDR. You can't upscale TO it, with madVR or anything else. And even once you do have HDR throughout your chain, not everyone is in agreement that it is all that great. No matter how heavily it gets promoted.



Well, if the budget is gone, that makes things easy! You just have to work with what you've got, and try to optimize that. Though possibly doing some research and analysis BEFORE the budget was gone may have been helpful.

And also,


No, capturing RF output from his cable-box isn't going to work. The modulated-RF out there isn't even HD to begin with. You mentioned Xfinity, and they encrypt everything coming down their pipeline now, including free-OTA content. So while you could insert a splitter and send the signal to both the cable box AND a digital TV tuner card, unless that is one that handles 'protected content', you won't even have a signal to work with. [and to be clear, such cards DO exist... I'm just not sure what can be done with the signal inside the 'protected domain' once you've acquired it. a topic for somewhere else.]


The biggest question is how much value he is going to get out of 4K in the first place. I understand he now has a 55" UHD-TV (which are selling like hot-cakes), and probably would like to see some value out of that purchase. And sourcing that with Netflix 4K and a UHD disc player will give him the best quality, the fastest, and most easily. But to take advantage of madVR upscaling of his existing 2K source materials will take a better vidcard than he currently has (to have anything meaningful beyond the upscaling either his TV or his planned UHD disc player could provide by themselves). And that may not be worthwhile. It depends a lot on how far from his TV he will be sitting (and how good his eyesight is! ) But if he's not sitting very close, what he will already have may be all the upscaling quality he will need. Thus potentially no role for madVR in that particular configuration.

So he could discover with some surprise that he's just fine with playing his BR-discs in his new UHD player (letting IT do the upscaling), and letting his new TV handle upscaling to its 4K panel of all his other existing source materials. Thus my recommendation would be for him to start there, get his feet wet with what he has (and has planned), and then move on from that point. He will then be in a position to know if he's just throwing away money, or buying himself some real value. Otherwise he might wind up spending a lot of time and money to get all this set up; and one day accidentally flip between A and B, and say "I can't see anything different! Why did I waste all that money?"

I hope this starts to clear away the fog a bit.
I am using madVR with Comcast. Works well. Nothing fancy gen 4 i5, HDHomerun Prime, 750ti via JRIVER MC. 1080P to Samsung to a calibrated 78JS8600. Standard JRIVER madvr settings. I intend to pickup a 1050ti.

I have another Samsung, a 43KU7000 doing 4K desktop duty running a Comcast/JRiver instance in a quarter of the screen. That PC is a gen 2 i3 running a 950 card. It has trouble with picture breakup at times using madVR. It acts like a less than ideal cable signal but works fine with JRver in non-madvr mode.

I don't have any premium channels on Comcast. So madvr works great. Even with the JRiver default settings it looks much better than the TV running the same content native.
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post #145 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 05:17 AM
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Is it possible that my CPU is too weak to run 2160p60 with madVR?

The CPU is AMD FX-8350 and the GPU is GTX 970.

I downloaded some UHD videos and demos and everything works fine if I play files that are 2160p24 (all my 1080pX movies work great as well), but I simply can't find a setup for 2160p60 that wouldn't bottleneck my CPU and skyrocket its usage to 100% which causes almost constant stuttering and about 3,000 dropped frames in 2 mins of video.

The GPU, meanwhile, hardly breaks a sweat at about 50-60% tops.

Can anyone tell me which are some of the most CPU intensive madVR settings so I can dial them down a bit? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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post #146 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 06:30 AM
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madVR isn't really using the CPU. you can try your luck with hybrid decoder which is usually useless and only work with 8 bit source.

for UHD HEVC you kind of need an hardware decoder and the 970 doesn't have a hevc hardware decoder or very expensive server CPUs.
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post #147 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 07:50 AM
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The Home Theater Computers forum has been unusually productive for the past two days in my opinion. In particular Axel's probing about what upgrading is worthwhile, madshi's explanation of NGU and VideoGraber's discussion of value.

I recently replaced my 10 year old AVR with a Yamaha TSR-7810 because I was having a problem understanding dialogue. Previously I replaced my optical drive with a LG WH16NS40 because the drawer was sticking and I upgraded madvr and lav and changed to NGU medium in MPC-HC.

Still using my eight year old Panasonic plasma through a Radeon 7770 and watching Fury Road and Everest in fullhd, 1080 with atmos I am struck with the quality I am getting and postponing a move to a UHD premium TV and player while technology develops. I think I am coming very close to the LG oleds I see at Best Buy though a side by side comparison could convince me otherwise.
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post #148 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
madVR isn't really using the CPU.
Yeah, I figured, but why then does the CPU get overwhelmed? Usage is at around 45-65 % with 24 fps and 100% with 60 fps.

You guys can try the demos I'm talking about yourself. But beware that it takes very long to download from this site (haven't been able to find these videos elsewhere yet).

This is the kind of video that works perfectly (2160p24): http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=153

Then I also have a couple 2160p60 and none of them work well. Example: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=151
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post #149 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I figured, but why then does the CPU get overwhelmed? Usage is at around 45-65 % with 24 fps and 100% with 60 fps.

You guys can try the demos I'm talking about yourself. But beware that it takes very long to download from this site (haven't been able to find these videos elsewhere yet).

This is the kind of video that works perfectly (2160p24): http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=153

Then I also have a couple 2160p60 and none of them work well. Example: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=151
You are using software decoding so the CPU is used exclusively to decode the video. As stated, you need a GPU with an HEVC decoder to play those files smoothly.
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post #150 of 3066 Old 12-11-2016, 10:37 AM
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If the 1060 isn't even that advisable for decent MadVR set ups, I don't think the 1050 will not be the wisest choice - unless you're locked into a world of 1080p displays and low level processing for the foreseeable future. If its for 4K applications I'd say pass.
I don't use MadVR, but I'd think it would still be acceptable to run Power DVD if/when we get UHD for PC, no?
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