Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 3083 Old 12-24-2018, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Do you show 13 items in here C:\Program Files (x86)\LAV Filters\x64?


Here is where to get the installer https://www.videohelp.com/software/LAV-Filters
Huge thanks for the reply - just started traveling for the holiday so I will check when I get back on the 27th.

JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, 138" 2.35:1 ST130
Panasonic DMP-UB820 & i7 PC w/1080ti running Win10/Kodi DSPlayer/madVR
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.
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post #1742 of 3083 Old 12-24-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post

Prior to madVR I ran all my 1080p content on my projector through plex and just played at 1080p. Now I run it all through Kodi and always play back at 4k. The madVR upscaler is the best I've ever seen.
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Night and day between e-shift and MadVR NGU @ 4K?
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post #1743 of 3083 Old 12-24-2018, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by 703 View Post
Night and day between e-shift and MadVR NGU @ 4K?
Well I'd say if you run just 1080p at the display and turn on eshift in the RS640 you get *no* benefit. But if you use the settings I posted the SR640 with eshift on looks almost as good as native 4K at least in some scenes.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
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post #1744 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
half the bandwidth.
Ok, but what does that mean visually for HTPC playback (i.e. stuttering, slow, can't push processing as much - but am I losing anything?)
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post #1745 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
I just thought of a couple more things:

You need to set hardware decoding in LAV Video to D3D11 Automatic (Native).

You also need to uncheck everything under trade quality for performance in madVR.

I would think you would also need these at some point:

Logitech Wireless Anywhere Mouse MX

Flirc USB IR Dongle

The Flirc is to allow for remote control of the PC.
Ok, finally got through it all. Going to test it out tonight with some movie watching. First samples look very good, but I find that maybe I need to calibrate my brightness/contrast from where I had them with my Oppo 203 playback.

Does that sound normal to now have to adjust my JVC's brightness/contrast from what was fully calibrated with the Oppo 203?

Also, do I need to change the refresh rate manually in the nvidia display panel? It's currently at 3840x2160 @60Hz
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post #1746 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Ok, finally got through it all. Going to test it out tonight with some movie watching. First samples look very good, but I find that maybe I need to calibrate my brightness/contrast from where I had them with my Oppo 203 playback.

Does that sound normal to now have to adjust my JVC's brightness/contrast from what was fully calibrated with the Oppo 203?

Also, do I need to change the refresh rate manually in the nvidia display panel? It's currently at 3840x2160 @60Hz
You might try sending HTPC through Oppo HDMI input and then you can use Oppo's video settings for sharpness, etc. I do this all the time with Roku Prem+ and hdr 4K. Atmos no problem. Not sure if this is long run choice with madVR's control, but might get thinks closer. Worth a try.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #1747 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Ok, finally got through it all. Going to test it out tonight with some movie watching. First samples look very good, but I find that maybe I need to calibrate my brightness/contrast from where I had them with my Oppo 203 playback.

Does that sound normal to now have to adjust my JVC's brightness/contrast from what was fully calibrated with the Oppo 203?

Also, do I need to change the refresh rate manually in the nvidia display panel? It's currently at 3840x2160 @60Hz
You probably have to change the target nits in madVR. Start at 200 nits and increase it until the contrast looks right. You can create profiles at later point to automatically select a curve. Manni already has suitable profiles created.

I hope you are using the test build I provided in this thread to do your tweaking.

You also need to visit the display modes section in madVR to enable display mode switching. The desktop should be either 60 Hz or 30 Hz before the switch at playback start. Select 30 Hz if you are outputting at 12-bits from the GPU and 60 Hz if you are outputting at 8-bits.
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post #1748 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meles View Post
You might try sending HTPC through Oppo HDMI input and then you can use Oppo's video settings for sharpness, etc. I do this all the time with Roku Prem+ and hdr 4K. Atmos no problem. Not sure if this is long run choice with madVR's control, but might get thinks closer. Worth a try.
In addition to what MADvr is doing? Is this a good way to go for further improvements?
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post #1749 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You probably have to change the target nits in madVR. Start at 200 nits and increase it until the contrast looks right. You can create profiles at later point to automatically select a curve. Manni already has suitable profiles created.

I hope you are using the test build I provided in this thread to do your tweaking.

You also need to visit the display modes section in madVR to enable display mode switching. The desktop should be either 60 Hz or 30 Hz before the switch at playback start. Select 30 Hz if you are outputting at 12-bits from the GPU and 60 Hz if you are outputting at 8-bits.
Would changing the target nits affect w7at I'm seeing regarding a dark pic for 1080p SDR content, or only for HDR material? I'm seeing it dark (than my Oppo calibrated output) for SDR.

Where do I find Manni's profiles you mention?
Also, while on the Manni note, I have his curves loaded into my projector as gamma curves. SHould I be using those?
And, more general question, what input should I be in for HDR on my JVC X970r projector?

On your last point, what is preferred/how can I tell if up to me between 8 and 12 bit/60/30hz option?
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post #1750 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Would changing the target nits affect w7at I'm seeing regarding a dark pic for 1080p SDR content, or only for HDR material? I'm seeing it dark (than my Oppo calibrated output) for SDR.

Where do I find Manni's profiles you mention?
Also, while on the Manni note, I have his curves loaded into my projector as gamma curves. SHould I be using those?
And, more general question, what input should I be in for HDR on my JVC X970r projector?

On your last point, what is preferred/how can I tell if up to me between 8 and 12 bit/60/30hz option?
I'd try setting the GPU to 60 Hz and choosing 8-bits, RGB. DSPlayer will be more fluid and 8-bits with madVR's dithering is no big deal. The fluidity of the Kodi interface is more valuable.

Then, navigate to display modes in madVR, and enter the following:

2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60

The majority of the time 2160p23 or 2160p24 will be chosen, but it's still worth inputting the rest.

I'm not sure about Manni gamma curves or the input mode on the JVC.
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post #1751 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Try downloading this HDR demo:

LG: Chess

I played it the other day and took a screenshot of the woman at the beginning of the video:

Screenshot Here

Do you have similar colors and image quality? I think we are using the same build and madVR does a great job with this demo. That could tell you if something is different with gamma curves or anything else.
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post #1752 of 3083 Old 12-26-2018, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
In addition to what MADvr is doing? Is this a good way to go for further improvements?
I have no idea, but Oppo on neutral settings should pass hdmi signal intact. Why not have Oppo's setting on hand and that might help you match with your tv more quickly. Its easy enough to try. I will say that if for some odd reason you are Windows 10 and using Dolby Access app that the Oppo will not except that kind of Atmos (PCM I believe, ditto Apple TV 4K).

Oppo settings I'm talking about which have three presets you customize and may assign:

This is screen capture from older Oppo.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)

Last edited by meles; 12-26-2018 at 10:08 PM.
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post #1753 of 3083 Old 12-27-2018, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
80 is fine with modern CPUs. max temp for AMD is currently 95 C and 100 C for intel 90 C is totally save.
I think the Zen+ start to throttle around 85C. But I don't dare to run it like that in the long term without having any fan in the case, that's why I underclocked/volted it. These modern CPUs are beasts anyway
Thank You one more time for suggesting the Ryzen 5 2600!

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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
and AMD currently has the lead in cooling over the 7000 and 8000 serie. feel free to read about it it has a lot to do with the internal heat paste used in intel CPU while AMD is soldered and missleading TDP on intel parts. i'm not confinded to cool a current intel CPU passive but an AMD looks very doable.
Hmmm, I heard about "delidding" intel CPUs. Taking a 2nd look at the temp tests, intel i78700K indeed seems to be more hotter (maybe I looked at one of the i5s before, that don't have hyperthreading).

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post #1754 of 3083 Old 12-27-2018, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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@Sittler27 ,

A new test build was released that is supposed to resemble the next public build. You might as well download it: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57331156.

You should also be able to start measuring your files soon now that a fix has been made to the measurement tool. I can now post those instructions in the next day or two.

Uncheck all of the new trade quality for performance checkboxes.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 12-27-2018 at 07:01 AM.
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post #1755 of 3083 Old 12-27-2018, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
@Sittler27 ,

A new test build was released that is supposed to resemble the next public build. You might as well download it: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-di...l#post57331156.

You should also be able to start measuring your files soon now that a fix has been made to the measurement tool. I can now post those instructions in the next day or two.

Uncheck all of the new trade quality for performance checkboxes.
Thanks again Onkyoman, you rock. Will try this new build out later today as well as some of the others.

Looking forward to seeing the instructions on how to start measuring the files. I have about another week off before I need to go back to work so this is prime time for setting this all up so I can start enjoying when I'm busier.
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post #1756 of 3083 Old 12-27-2018, 11:37 AM
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There is a new test build out.

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure38.zip

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post #1757 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 07:15 AM
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Can someone briefly explain the purpose of measuring our MKV files when madVR does it live? I've tried the measurement on one file and can see any difference in performance (visually or rendering time).

Thanks.

JVC-RS4500 4k projector, Lumagen Pro, 138" 2.35:1 ST130
Panasonic DMP-UB820 & i7 PC w/1080ti running Win10/Kodi DSPlayer/madVR
Classe SSP-800, Bryston amplification, Wilson Audio speakers (7.2) + Buttkickers.
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post #1758 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Visually, they should be very similar. One benefit is that you can use the measurements to create HDR profiles to select a different target peak nits/tone curve for each source.

A second benefit is that the measured files should have a reduced potential for flickering artifacts because madVR knows the brightness of each frame ahead of time.
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post #1759 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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@Sittler27 ,

I have some instructions on how to measure your files and create HDR profile rules. You will first have to do one more update to a new test build because there was some sort of bug with the measurement files:

Most recent test build

How to use madMeasureHDR

You'll have to tell me if the introduction in the last post is too long/difficult to understand. I thought some people would want greater detail on how HDR -> SDR and dynamic tone mapping work. All of the information was verified by madshi as accurate.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 01-02-2019 at 09:30 AM.
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post #1760 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 10:42 AM
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I was going to wait for Ryzen 2, but due to a taxes situation, i have some money that i need to spend in computer components until the end of the year, so i'm considering building my HTPC now.

My only use for 2019 will be 1080p and 4K movies, on my Optoma HD87, so 4K movies will be downscaled to 1080p, with madVR tone mapping applied.
By 2020 i should be able to afford a JVC, and by that time i will probably change the graphic card for something new and more powerful.

The components i'm considering are:

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME B450-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard
SSD: Samsung - 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
GPU: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB AMP! Edition Video Card
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
Case: Silverstone - Black Grandia GD01B-MXR-USB3.0 HTPC Case

System Builder here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/k3rqJ8
(I was not able to select only 1x8GB of RAM for the selected RAM in the System Builder, so i had to choose 2x8GB, but my intention is to only use 8GB).

Some considerations:
- The memory was selected to use a Samsung B-Die, according to this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comment...nfusion_eg_on/
- The power supply is probably overkill, but i want to be prepared for using a powerful card in the future.

Any considerations?
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post #1761 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 12:17 PM
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Can someone advise is there one uhd model blue ray Uhd drive for pc that is universal that works with makemkv , AnyDVD HD and PowerDVD ?



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post #1762 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
The components i'm considering are:

CPU: Ryzen 5 2600
Motherboard: Asus - PRIME B450-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard
SSD: Samsung - 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
Memory: G.Skill - Trident Z 16 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
GPU: Zotac - GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB AMP! Edition Video Card
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 750 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
Case: Silverstone - Black Grandia GD01B-MXR-USB3.0 HTPC Case

System Builder here: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/k3rqJ8
After reading the initial post, i've decided to go for a better GPU, and save in the CPU/motherboard/RAM.

So, now i'm at:
- CPU: Ryzen 3 1200 (4C/4T)
- RAM: G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB DDR4 3200
- MB: ASRock - AB350 Pro4 ATX AM4
- GPU: MSI Armor RTX 2070

@Onkyoman , could you please give me your opinion?

Last edited by neo_2009; 12-28-2018 at 06:46 PM.
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post #1763 of 3083 Old 12-28-2018, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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If you are staying at 1080p for the foreseable future, a 2070 is overkill. I can still run tone mapping with everything enabled with a GTX 1050 Ti. You can downscale with SSIM 2D if you check scale chroma separately. The performance cost comes from chroma upscaling to 4K and outputting at 3840 x 2160p.

The rest of your components are fine. You would have a fast modern PC. Can't complain about having a new computer.
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post #1764 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
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If you are thinking of downgrading, I would take a GTX 1060 6GB over a GTX 1050 Ti. The extra performance, even at 1080p, is welcome.
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post #1765 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 11:52 AM
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I had to change the motherboard and the power supply due to availability, but the final parts are:
  • AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1 GHz Quad-Core Processor
  • Asus - MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard
  • G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
  • Samsung - 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
  • MSI - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB Video Card
  • SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
  • Silverstone GD10 - HTPC
- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/82GtdX

I know that the 2070 is overkill, but i'm hoping to save this year for a JVC X7900 in 2020, so the 2070 will come handy then
I'm hopping that this HTPC can last several years

Now back to read 3D LUT's, profiles, etc

First question: As soon as the HTPC is running, my first step will be a 3D LUT calibration.
As i'm using an 1080p projector, i suppose i will only need one 3D LUT calibration to REC709, independent of the source, SDR BR, 4K HDR (Converted to SDR by madVR tonemapping), etc.
Is this correct?
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post #1766 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 01:44 PM
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On my setup, if I set the desktop resolution to native (3840x2160), text is to small for me to read. I have to set it to 2560x1440 min.

Can I play media at 2560x1440 or do I need to keep switching to 3840x2160 once I'm done with desktop text stuff?
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post #1767 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
@Sittler27 ,

I have some instructions on how to measure your files and create HDR profile rules. You will first have to do one more update to a new test build because there was some sort of bug with the measurement files:

Most recent test build

How to use madMeasureHDR

Choosing a target peak nits and creating HDR profile rules

You'll have to tell me if the introduction in the last post is too long/difficult to understand. I thought some people would want greater detail on how HDR -> SDR and dynamic tone mapping work. All of the information was verified by madshi as accurate.
Just started going on this, and when I drag the HDR mkv file to the madmeasurehdr file the command prompt window blips up quickly and then disappears. It doesn't stay and show percentage completed.

Note: I had performed the upgrade to latest madmeasurehdr files - is there a second update I should have done for all of madvr and not just the madmeasurehdr ?
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post #1768 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
On my setup, if I set the desktop resolution to native (3840x2160), text is to small for me to read. I have to set it to 2560x1440 min.

Can I play media at 2560x1440 or do I need to keep switching to 3840x2160 once I'm done with desktop text stuff?
Go to Settings -> System -> Display and change the DPI scaling to 175%. That should make things large enough.
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post #1769 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sittler27 View Post
Just started going on this, and when I drag the HDR mkv file to the madmeasurehdr file the command prompt window blips up quickly and then disappears. It doesn't stay and show percentage completed.

Note: I had performed the upgrade to latest madmeasurehdr files - is there a second update I should have done for all of madvr and not just the madmeasurehdr ?
You need to follow the link at the top of the post and install LAV Filters. Don't forget to configure LAV Video to use D3D11 hardware decoding before measuring your files.

Soulnight released a new tool that I'll have to try. It can automatically populate Manni's rules into your measurements files without using any profile rules in madVR. The only downside is that the measurements files are all overwritten with the targets nits embedded in the measurements file. But there are two simple tools that allow you to enter your own targets nits or delete the one added by Soulnight's tool.

I read your post in the tone mapping thread. You do need to set the gamma in the projector to normal or whatever would correspond to 2.40. If the gamma isn't 2.40, the result will be terrible.
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post #1770 of 3083 Old 12-29-2018, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neo_2009 View Post
I had to change the motherboard and the power supply due to availability, but the final parts are:
  • AMD - Ryzen 3 1200 3.1 GHz Quad-Core Processor
  • Asus - MSI - B450 TOMAHAWK ATX AM4 Motherboard
  • G.Skill - Aegis 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory
  • Samsung - 970 Evo 250 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive
  • MSI - GeForce RTX 2070 8 GB Video Card
  • SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply
  • Silverstone GD10 - HTPC
- https://pcpartpicker.com/list/82GtdX

I know that the 2070 is overkill, but i'm hoping to save this year for a JVC X7900 in 2020, so the 2070 will come handy then
I'm hopping that this HTPC can last several years

Now back to read 3D LUT's, profiles, etc

First question: As soon as the HTPC is running, my first step will be a 3D LUT calibration.
As i'm using an 1080p projector, i suppose i will only need one 3D LUT calibration to REC709, independent of the source, SDR BR, 4K HDR (Converted to SDR by madVR tonemapping), etc.
Is this correct?
Yes, a single BT.709 3D LUT would do the job for all content. I'm not sure what the gamma curve should be.
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