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Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR

1M views 7K replies 529 participants last post by  mightyhuhn 
#1 · (Edited)
Last Updated: 2019-07-26

What Is madVR? | Complete madVR Set up | How to Get Help

This guide outlines the hardware necessary to achieve high-performance playback from madVR at 3840 x 2160p.

The current landscape of UHD technology is shifting and true 4K UHD PC support is still new. Therefore, this guide is incomplete and anyone looking to build a 4K HTPC in 2019 should proceed with caution until PC support of UHD Blu-ray and 4K UHD media is more mature.

Currently, madVR is the only media software on Windows that supports HDR10 metadata passthrough using APIs provided by AMD and Nvidia without relying on forced system-wide HDR output offered by Windows 10. Both SDR and HDR content will playback correctly with automatic EOTF and color space switching.

1 – CPU

It is unrealistic for all but the most powerful modern CPUs to decode high-bitrate, 10-bit 4K HEVC video using CPU-based (software) decoding. The computing power required to decode HEVC is 5-10 times higher than equivalent H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.

Considering the UHD standard calls for data rates of up to 82 Mbit/s for 50 GB discs, 108 Mbit/s for 66 GB discs and 128 Mbit/s for 100 GB discs, even low bitrate 4K UHD content is close to double the bitrate of 1080p Blu-ray (max. of 54 Mbit/s). Those bitrates include both audio and video. But, coupled with slow HEVC decoding, the load posed by 4K UHD Blu-ray is formidable for any CPU or hardware decoder. So we will assume the bulk of difficult 10-bit HEVC decoding will be handled by a fixed-function GPU hardware decoder capable of handling high-bitrate decoding.

If you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray discs, Intel Kaby Lake (7th generation) Core i5 or i7 processors are a minimum requirement for compatibility with UHD Blu-ray drives. The choice of CPU is only relevant if you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray disks (not rips). Otherwise, any CPU is appropriate as long as you are satisfied with boot times and OS performance.

The critical component of a HTPC is the GPU. So don't worry too much about the CPU and motherboard. The CPU should remain mostly idle during HTPC use.

Intel (with legal UHD Blu-ray disc support):

Minimum: Kaby Lake Core i5
Extreme: Kaby Lake Core i7

Intel (for general HTPC use):

Budget: Pentium
Performance: Core i3
Extreme: Core i5 or i7

AMD (for general HTPC use):

Budget: AMD Ryzen 3
Performance: AMD Ryzen 3
Extreme: AMD Ryzen 5 or 7

2 – Motherboard

The motherboard must be compatible with the chosen CPU and fit into the chosen case form factor.

Considerations:
  • RAM Types
    (e.g. DDR2, DDR3, DDR4)
  • RAM Frequencies
    (e.g. 1066 MHz up to 4600 MHz)
  • Memory Slots
    (e.g. 4 x 240-pin DIMM)
  • Max. Memory
    (e.g. 32GB)
  • Expansion Slots
    (e.g. 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 for GPUs / 4 x SATA 6Gb/s / 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 for TV tuner cards)
  • High-Speed SSD Slots (up to 40Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s SATA III)
    (e.g. 1 x M.2)
  • CPU Overclocking
    (e.g. Intel H97 vs. Z97 / cheap AMD vs. 990FX)
  • USB 3.0
    (e.g. 4 x USB 3.0 Ports)
  • Onboard Gigabit Ethernet
    (e.g. 1 x 1000 Mbit/s)
  • Onboard Wireless LAN
    (e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n/ac or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • Onboard Bluetooth
    (e.g. Bluetooth 4.0/3.0 or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • S/PDIF Out
    (e.g. 1 x Optical)
  • Case Form Factor
    (e.g. ATX (tower), mini ITX (small form factor), micro ATX (slim profile))
3 – Memory

Up to the discretion of the user. Larger amounts of RAM than recommended are suitable for PCs that double as gaming rigs.

Buying two equal-sized memory modules (e.g. 2 x 4GB) and inserting them into the paired slots on the motherboard can result in small improvements in memory read, copy, write, latency and bandwidth performance and should be strongly considered if you are using onboard video graphics rather than a dedicated GPU.

Single-Channel vs. Dual-Channel - Does It Matter?

Minimum: 6GB
Recommended: 8GB

4 – Internal Storage

A Solid State Drive (SSD) is recommended for HTPC use. Instant access speeds provided by SSDs will make a PC fast in every regard from boot times to responsive control of the operating system. SSDs can also improve the performance of media front-ends such as Kodi and Emby by significantly reducing the time required to cache and load artwork. For a HTPC that doesn’t deal with large file transfers, a SATA interface SSD will perform just as fast as a PCIe interface SSD. SATA SSDs are recommended as the preferred hard drive for a HTPC operating system.

Minimum: 80GB
Recommended: 120-240GB

Data Interface: SATA III: 6Gbit/s; PCIe x8: 40 Gbit/s.

Physical Connector:
  • SATA: 6Gbit/s (SATA Interface);
  • PCIe: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (PCIe Interface);
  • M.2: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (SATA Interface M.2 and PCIe Interface M.2).
More on SSD types here.

More on PCIe vs. SATA here.

5 – Graphics Card

The majority of madVR processing is carried out on the graphics card. 4K UHD playback is not the primary concern of picking a suitable card. Rather, upscaling any HD video to 2160p (4K UHD) revolves around the use of costly image doubling — preferably, NGU. High definition scaling factors start at 2x (1080p -> 2160p) and can become as large as 3x (720p -> 2160p). An ideal 4K graphics card would allow for the use of image doubling plus artifact removal and post-processing for FHD content — often combining multiple shaders and upscaling under one profile. Cards with this power will have no problem playing 10-bit 4K UHD.

HEVC hardware decoding is also a consideration. The chosen GPU should be capable of decoding 10-bit HEVC with a full-function (not hybrid) hardware decoder capable of decoding high-bitrate HEVC without reducing the rendering performance of the GPU.

Up to 4GB of VRAM can be required when using normal queue sizes combined with NGU image scaling, common madVR processing and subtitles.

Considerations:
  • 4GB+ of VRAM
  • Fixed-function 10-bit HEVC decoder
  • HDMI 2.0a/b (4K 60 fps)
Minimum

These are mid-level cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using super-xbr/NGU image scaling with artifact removal and post-processing. This allows the user to take advantage of all madVR features, only compromising in algorithm quality (e.g. NGU low, medium and sometimes high) and with content with high frame rates (>25 fps).

Recommended

These are mid-high cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using NGU image doubling with artifact removal and post-processing. Fewer compromises are required at high frame rates and it is possible to use NGU high quality image doubling with some profiles. A reduction in settings may be necessary with 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts.

Performance

These are high-end cards capable of the most aggressive settings with little to no compromise playing any content. NGU very high quality with artifact removal and post-processing is possible with all profiles (SD, 720p, 1080p, 4K UHD). Possible exceptions include 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts, which may require a reduction in some settings.

HDR Tone Mapping

The last category are for those primarily interested in buying a card to use madVR's high-quality pixel shader HDR tone mapping. The recommended cards are capable of using tone mapping with all of the HDR enhancements enabled (with some adjustment to the unimportant chroma upscaling setting) with 4K 24 fps content. A setting or two may be need to be disabled at 4K 60 fps, but this is a minor concern given the majority of 60 fps content is limited to HDR demo clips. Lesser cards can still run madVR's tone mapping in good quality, but a few performance compromises may have to be made.

Current GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 1650
Recommended: GTX 1660 6GB / RTX 2060
Performance: RTX 2080
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1660 Ti / RTX 2060

AMD:

Minimum: RX 560 (Baffin XT, not Baffin XL; Discussion)
Recommended: RX 580 / RX 5700
Performance: RX Vega 64 / RX 5700 XT
iGPU(Minimum): RX Vega M GL / RX Vega M GH
HDR Tone Mapping: RX Vega 56 / RX 5700

Used GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 960 4GB / GTX 1050 3GB / GTX 1050 Ti
Recommended: GTX 1060 6GB
Performance: GTX 1080 Ti
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1070 / GTX 1070 Ti

AMD:

Minimum: RX 470
Recommended: RX 480

Note: AMD Polaris cards struggle with NGU image scaling in madVR. This makes equivalent Nvidia cards the performance choice, even if benchmarks between equivalent cards can be similar.

Fan noise should also be considered when buying a GPU. There can be a lot of variability in fan quality and fan noise during video playback can be bothersome. Tests like this one for the RTX 2060 are best consulted before purchase.


On a budget and need basic 4K UHD video processing:

AMD Ryzen 3 2200G, AMD Ryzen 5 2400G, Nvidia GT 1030 2GB and Nvidia GTX 1050 2GB are all capable of playing 4K 60 fps content with madVR, but only with basic processing.

Recommended Base Settings:
  • Set madVR to its default video processing settings and/or set image upscaling to DXVA2;
  • CPU and GPU queue sizes set to 8/8 or lower;
  • 8GB of the fastest RAM you can find should be run in dual-channel mode (2 x 4GB - only applies to AMD APUs);
  • XySubFilter is not recommended to render subtitles;
  • Use of 3D LUTs or tone mapping by pixel shaders are unlikely.
6 – Optical Drive

Official 4K UHD Blu-ray drive support is offered by Pioneer and LG. Those purchasing the BDR-S11J-BK (internal), BDR-S11J-X (internal) or LG WH16NS60 (internal) must combine the drive with:
  • Windows 10;
  • 6 GB of system RAM;
  • Motherboard with HDCP 2.2, SGX and AACS 3.0;
  • Intel Kaby Lake Core i5 or i7;
  • Intel HD Graphics 630 or 640.
Note: This only applies to legal UHD Blu-ray disc playback on a HTPC (not the drives required to rip these discs or for other decryption methods).

Cyberlink PowerDVD is the only option for legal playback software of 4K UHD discs on PC. The Pioneer drives arrive packaged with PowerDVD.

PowerDVD UHD Blu-ray System Requirements

Grey Market Decryption – UHD Blu-ray Disc Requirements:
How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD "Friendly" Drives

RedFox AnyDVD (HD) and DVDFab Passkey don't require any special motherboard, CPU or other hardware beyond a "friendly" Blu-ray drive, 4K-ready graphics card and available hashed keys for select discs.

The cost of any additional playback or decryption software should be factored in with the cost of the drive.

Drive Specifications: BDXL (triple-layer support)
Playback Software: Cyberlink PowerDVD, JRiver Media Center (with Blu-ray menu support), Kodi Matrix 19.0 HDR Edition, MPC and other free media players.

7 – Power Supply

The power supply must be large enough to provide the necessary wattage for all components when under load. Other considerations include its size — it must be small enough to fit inside the chosen case. And it should be reasonably quiet — suitable for watching videos in silence.

Websites such as this are available to provide estimates of the power draw of any assembled PC. An example system is shown below:



The 80 Plus certification program (Bronze to Titanium) defines the efficiency of the power supply. The higher the rating, the lower the power usage at a given wattage. Basically, this indicates how much power is wasted by the PSU from the power outlet to the PC when delivering a required amount of wattage.

More on 80 Plus certification here.

Power supplies come in three configurations. Cheaper PSUs are hard-wired with all necessary cables to connect to the most common PC components. More expensive models can be partially-modular, where there is some discretion in what accessory power cables are connected to the power supply, or fully-modular, where there is full discretion over what power cables are connected to the PSU. Fully-modular power supplies that limit power cable connectors to those you actually need tend to be the easiest to work with and can keep the interior of the case tidier with less cable clutter.

How to pick the best PC power supply

8 – Case

The case is up to preference. It must be sized appropriately for the chosen motherboard and graphics card, and fit comfortably into its end-use component rack.

Form Factors:
  • ATX (tower)
  • HTPC (horizontal)
  • mini ITX (small form factor)
  • micro ATX (slim profile)
9 – Operating System

As DirectShow software, madVR is compatible with Windows operating systems.

Recommended OS (with UHD Blu-ray disc support):
  • Windows 10
Recommended OS (for general madVR playback):
  • Windows 8.1
  • Windows 10
10 – Accessories

Recommended Accessories:
11 – Building a Silent HTPC

Because this PC will be used to watch videos and not play video games, you are unlikely to be wearing gaming headphones at any point and may care greatly about PC noise levels. With all its large moving parts and multiple fans, no PC will be truly silent, but there are several ways to lower the working decibel level of any PC build:

Silent HTPC Components:

CPU:
The CPU is rarely under load in a PC that primarily plays videos, so the stock computer cooler should spin at idle speeds during normal operation. If you find the stock cooler is a tad noisy, even at idle, aftermarket CPU coolers are fairly cheap and are almost always more silent than the stock cooler.

GPU: It is a good idea to purchase a GPU with multiple, large fans that can keep the GPU cool under load as well as provide some additional overhead for overclocking without increasing GPU temperatures too much. Choosing a GPU with larger fans is a way to keep the GPU quieter, as larger fans are more efficient at cooling than smaller fans and will usually spin a slower rate.

Custom fan curves created with overclocking software such as MSI Afterburner are the most basic way to reduce GPU noise by improving upon the factory fan curve, which is often tilted towards keeping GPU temperatures as low as possible with unnecessarily aggressive fan speeds for given temperatures. With some trial-and-error, custom fan curves can be constructed that maintain stable operating temperatures under a heavy load with a constant reduced fan speed: Example: GTX 1060 6GB MSI Afterburner Custom Fan Curve.

Tip: MSI Afterburner has options to display the GPU fan speed and temperature on the Windows Taskbar for easy monitoring. Enable these options under the Monitoring tab. Then right-click on the Taskbar, select Taskbar settings and click Select which icons appear on the Taskbar.

MSI Afterburner Tray Icons: GPU Fan Speed and Temperature Indicators

Controlling Other System Fans with SpeedFan (excluding the PSU fan)

Power Supply: The power supply is an often-overlooked source of PC noise. A cheap and inefficient power supply will produce more noise than a GPU by throwing away high amounts of power from the wall outlet in the form of excess heat. This buildup of heat often causes the PSU fan to spin loudly to cool the PSU, and most cheaper power supplies are equipped with low-quality fans with aggressive built-in fan curves. Obnoxious PSU fan noise can sometimes be misidentified as GPU fan noise because the PSU fan will typically ramp up at the same time as when GPU temperatures rise and the GPU fan RPMs increase. It is possible to differentiate between the two fans by carefully monitoring the GPU fan speed after a high load is removed to see if the noise is still audible after the GPU fans have throttled down.

Purchasing an efficient power supply (Gold to Platinum Certified) is not a bad idea if you want to keep the PC silent as possible. Efficient power supplies generate less wasted power, resulting in less heat and often have more intelligent fan controllers (semi-passive modes) that turn off the PSU fan at lower temperatures and use more relaxed fan curves. Some of the more expensive PSUs are completely silent and fanless by using passive cooling. To keep PSU efficiency high, it is advised to purchase a power supply with slightly more wattage than you need or that is recommended by online power supply calculators to keep all power usage well under the maximum available wattage.

List of Recommended PSUs for Every Budget (Ultra High-End to Budget Models)

Case: The last consideration is where all of the components will be stored. You can go in two directions in purchasing a silent case: Buy one with sound dampening material to keep as much noise as possible inside the case or buy a larger case with good airflow to lower noise levels by keeping the internal components cooler.

Soundproof cases are mostly limited to tower or mid-tower form factors and often use sound dampening insulation on the case walls to lower decibel levels by keeping reflected sound inside the case. These cases can be more expensive than regular PC cases, but can make for excellent HTPC cases if you can live with the tower form factor.

Quiet PC Cases at Newegg.com

A more practical way to lower PC noise levels is to choose a case design that has good spacing between the system components, well-placed ventilation holes to exhaust hot air and flexible options for installing case fans. This combination will keep internal temperatures as low as possible by maximizing airflow in and out of the case. The best case airflow is achieved by adding case fans, placing one or more intake fans on the front of the case to draw in cold air and a case fan at the back to exhaust built-up heat to the case rear. Most case designs pre-install a single exhaust fan at the rear, but require aftermarket installation of any front intake fans. As with GPUs, larger case fans (120mm or larger) are more efficient at moving air than smaller fans and will be more silent by spinning at lower RPMs.

How to Manage Your PC’s Fans for Optimal Airflow and Cooling

Summary: Making the Best Silent PC Gaming Build in 2019

Example: Passively-Cooled & Completely Fanless PC

Putting It All Together – Building Your System

Now that the components of a system have been outlined, it is time to build one for yourself!

PCPartPicker is a handy tool for experimenting with various hardware configurations. Thousands of components are found in its database from the most reputable brands in the PC industry linked directly to popular online parts sites. By creating a user account, you can create multiple parts lists and even purchase individual components directly from the vendor.

When attempting any build with PCPartPicker, I would recommend starting with the case then the CPU, ending with the power supply. The compatibility checker will ensure each part added to the list is compatible with the form factor, inputs and chipsets of the existing components.

Example madVR 4K HTPC Build

Ripping UHD Blu-ray Discs with MakeMKV

The simplest way to create UHD HDR10 media suitable for HTPC use is by ripping UHD Blu-ray discs. MakeMKV has made this process fairly simple. With an UHD "friendly" drive, MakeMKV can read the disc, as long as a decryption key for the disc is known, and rip the appropriate video, audio and subtitle tracks into an .mkv container. This is all lossless. The relevant tracks are simply packaged into an .mkv ready for playback by any media player, free or paid. If storage is an issue, the file can be compressed by software such as StaxRip.

UHD Blu-ray disc ripping requires:
How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD Drives

International UHD Drive Sales & Firmware Flashing Service

Ultra-High-Definition Blu-ray Disc (UHD-BD) Backup & Playback Guidance

Heads up - Support for Official LG UHD Drives Coming in 2019

Do not update the firmware of legacy UHD drives or it will no longer work. UHD "friendly" drives are drives produced for normal BR discs (so, AACS 1.0) but with BDXL (three/four layer disc) capabilities. These "friendly" drives may be less predictable than the recommended official UHD Blu-ray drives at reliably reading all UHD Blu-ray discs and the odd disc may fail to read. Both types of drives require older firmware versions (either flashed or factory) to unlock the ability to read and rip UHD discs.

The downloaded hashed key file must be installed into the MakeMKV data directory (which is set in the preferences - NOT the program directory). MakeMKV v1.12.3 added the option to update this file automatically with an Internet connection. The download link is updated weekly, sometimes several times a week. Those requiring manual updates should bookmark the above link and return back regularly. The hashed key method is different than the general crack of AACS 1.0 used to rip 1080p Blu-rays.

There are often many versions of each UHD Blu-ray disc, which cover many regions. If your disc is not supported, it is possible to take the dump file created when an attempt is made to open the UHD disc and send it to MakeMKV. That disc will be included in the next hashed key file update, so the disc can then be ripped. This means the creation of hashed keys is virtually infinite.

MakeMKV UHD Blu-ray FAQ

Tip: Set the minimum title length to 3600 seconds (60 minutes) and a default language preference in Preferences to ease the task of identifying the correct video, audio and subtitle tracks.

Other UHD Blu-ray Ripping Software:
External NAS Storage

Data storage is a significant concern when using digital media. The storage of 4K UHD media, in particular, will consume a large amount of hard drive space (measured in terabytes, or TBs). This data storage can be managed with cheap USB external hard drives, but such hard drives do not offer near the same level of reliability and protection as Network Attached Storage (NAS).

Average File Sizes of Current Rips:
  • DVD: 8GB (avg);
  • Blu-ray: 20GB-40GB;
  • UHD Blu-ray: 50GB-85GB.
All NAS offer some form of backup redundancy (RAID), where data is spread across multiple drives, sometimes allowing for the replacement of failed drives without upsetting the performance of the rest.

There are two ways to go about creating a NAS server:
Pre-built NAS devices are pre-loaded with proprietary NAS software. It is possible to take any existing drive array in a PC and turn it into a NAS drive pool by using software RAID.

RAID software can be configured to several RAID levels that provide a balance of available storage space versus protection against data loss. RAID calculators are available to calculate the available capacity of each RAID level and tolerance to drive failure.

Example DIY Builds Using Popular RAID Software:

unRAID NAS Server

SnapRAID NAS Server / Windows Media Manager

Windows Software – Media Front-Ends

Finally, the following media front-ends can be used to enhance the experience of video playback by organizing your media collection and providing detailed metadata and artwork for each title. Some front-ends also offer content from add-ons that can be played through the media player and enhanced by madVR.

Media front-ends with integrated madVR video players:
Media front-ends that support external players:
 
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1
#3,466 ·
dithering has nothing todo with blending.
even HDR never needs 10 bit to stop banding.

in a perfect world with perfect TVs the major difference between 8 bit dithered and 10 bit dithered is the noise floor.
10 bit is important for lossy encoding because you can't preserve the dithering well it is lossy and dithering is noise a very low level of noise.
it's been proven that high bit deep encoding creates a better image at the same bit rate even with 8 bit sources.

and yes 6 bit dithered should be banding free is just noisy and dark details are starting to disappear. a lot of monitors are 6 bit and the majority never even notice anything.
 
#3,467 ·
I agree blending is not the optimal term but I didn’t think of a better way to describe it.

Dithering does “blend” together bands of adjacent colors by adding pixels of “noise” of the adjacent color into the band of the next adjacent color.

And yeah even some displays that support 10-bit don’t do so in a banding-free way and thus dithering to 8-bit can provide a better looking image there too.
 
#3,470 ·
Diving deep into fine-tuning my NX9 calibration with madvr.
On my JVC NX9 I just ran an autocal and fine-tuned with HCFR+i1D3.
I use SDR BT2020 iris wide open, gamma @ 2.4. I get about 80 nits with this in low lamp with my DCR lens.

I'd like to create a 3DLUT to use with madvr.
If I create one for P3 and target gamma 2.2, would I then on the NX9 select the DCI-P3 color profile instead of the BT2020 one and still use gamma @ 2.4?

Would this be preferable to just using pixel shaders option in madvr and telling it my display is calibrated to BT2020 and power gamma 2.4?

Should I be creating a 3DLUT for Rec709 and one for DCI-P3?

In the meantime as I set to "this display is already calibrated", what do I set madvr to output in the device calibration section?
display is calibrated to...=BT.709
pure power curve = 2.4
?

Also, If I have madvr outputting BT2020, and I play a non-UHD file that is Rec.709, should I be using the BT2020 color profile or the 709 one?


Finally, just to confirm, should I be setting as follows?

GPU - RGB/Full
madvr - 16-235
JVC proj - 16-235
 
#3,471 ·
GPU - RGB/Full
madvr - 16-235
JVC proj - 16-235
This looks wrong to me.
I'd be doing:
GPU FULL
MadVR 0-255
JVC: Auto (should be full)

Or you could do
GPU Limited (16-235)
MadVR Limited (16-235)
JVC: Auto (should be limited)
 
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Reactions: OzHDHT
#3,472 ·
it's not a wrong setup everything at limited is wrong or in short GPU and madVR at limited is just wrong.

In the meantime as I set to "this display is already calibrated", what do I set madvr to output in the device calibration section?
display is calibrated to...=BT.709
pure power curve = 2.4
?
did you calibrate it to that? if yes it's correct but else no one knows for sure.

I'd like to create a 3DLUT to use with madvr.
If I create one for P3 and target gamma 2.2, would I then on the NX9 select the DCI-P3 color profile instead of the BT2020 one and still use gamma @ 2.4?
try DCI p3 with a target gamma of 2.2 and a normal BT 709 with what ever gamma you want.

I use SDR BT2020 iris wide open, gamma @ 2.4. I get about 80 nits with this in low lamp with my DCR lens.
as far i know this is not recommended because you are loosing Cr doing it this way you should make sure that the lens is not wide mode for SDR.


Finally, just to confirm, should I be setting as follows?

GPU - RGB/Full
madvr - 16-235
JVC proj - 16-235
if your device supports it properly use full range for everything.
 
#3,475 ·
it's not a wrong setup everything at limited is wrong or in short GPU and madVR at limited is just wrong.



did you calibrate it to that? if yes it's correct but else no one knows for sure.


try DCI p3 with a target gamma of 2.2 and a normal BT 709 with what ever gamma you want.


as far i know this is not recommended because you are loosing Cr doing it this way you should make sure that the lens is not wide mode for SDR.



if your device supports it properly use full range for everything.
When I calibrate, I have it on SDR 709 mode on my projector when playing the 709 patterns (i.e. HCFR windowed patterns), and I switch to SDR BT2020 mode when playing HDR patterns (i.e. Masciola's HDR patterns).
Is this not right? Wouldn't I do a similar switching of projector modes when playing 709 content vs. HDR content? Or would I leave it all on SDR BT2020 even if playing 709 content meaning I should calibrate using all patterns on SDR BT2020?

And, sorry I misunderstood when you say "as far I know this is not recommended because you are loosing Cr...". Which way are you referring to when you say it's not recommended?
 
#3,474 ·
i recommend you not to post the kodi page they got so much technically wrong...

just to make it short in YCbCr chroma is not 16-235 it's 16-240 if you tell me how you get that in limited range RGB without "scaling" what ever they mean with that YCbCr to RGB ranges float point data so full range is just generally higher quality...
they also use dithering for full range output and no dithering for limited according to warner.
 
#3,476 ·
Hello,

After experiencing the same stutter issues as many using my RTX 2080 Super X Gaming Trio, I finally realised regardless of Game Ready Driver 436.48 or 418.91 (DCH type), as long as I have 'how many video frames shall be repented in advance' set to 1, my playback is buttery smooth. And I can now have my upscaling and chroma settings near max. Albeit, the artefact removal options need to be on medium settings (not sure of this is normal for my spec) because if I set them to high, I get stutter again. For the sake of having the latest driver installed I re-installed Game Ready Driver 436.48.

Sadly, I now have again a glitch whereby after stopping a film, the right click menu font sizes of my task bar icons turn very large. This issue occurs with either of the above two drivers. I do not know if I am uploading photos correctly, so please also see my post with photos on AVForums, below:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/madvr-on-pc-as-a-video-processor.2249335/post-27449172

The only solutions to bring the font back to the normal size are to restart my PC or switch to a different resolution (4K is what I use) and then back to 1080p. The only changes since I last encountered this issue might be installing up to date Intel drivers using Driver Boost 7 by 10bit, and well, a new PC, as I tried a Ryzen and AMD build prior to my current Intel and Aorus Z390 Master build, but the Ryzen CPU was making my RTX card boot/ restart and wake up with 100% fans plus 100% mobo fans!

Has anyone else experienced this taskbar icon font size issue and know of a fix? Is it simply a case of Kodi DSPlayer and or NVIDIA drivers being flaky? I feel I can almost sit easy and content and finally enjoy a film from start to finish but I would really like to resolve this.

Kind thanks,

fallinlight
 

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#3,480 · (Edited)
Hi,

I've just buy an Optoma p1, 4k HDR projector, but don't have anything to play 4k content except a PS4 and the integrated video player (who is limited). Currently I have an old PC that I can recycle as an HTPC, it's an old 6 core amd fx 3.5ghz with 16 or 32gb of ram, but no graphic card.

For a low budget what do you think is the best, buy a new graphic card or an nvidia shield ? If I want to spend more does it will be really better to take an expensive graphic card to use madvr with HDR tone mapping ?

The pro for the shield for the moment is the price who is equivalent to a low end graphic card, and the fact that it's small and silent, but I don't know how good it is for 4k hdr content.
 
#3,483 ·
There is a pretty substantial difference between using madVR to do the tone mapping for the projector and the projector doing its own tone mapping. It should be night-and-day in most cases.

More than a year and a half has gone into developing madVR's tone mapping. It is one-of-a-kind in what it can do. It is pretty impressive technology. I find the tone mapping increasingly impressive as new features are added each month and it makes 4K UHD Blu-rays look really great.

If you don't want to pony up the extra money for a GTX 1070+, you can still use madVR's tone mapping in good quality with a GTX 1060 by checking one of the trade quality for performance checkboxes and adjusting a couple of other settings. This is not advisable, but it will still be an improvement over the projector's own tone mapping.
 
#3,484 ·
There is a pretty substantial difference between using madVR to do the tone mapping for the projector and the projector doing its own tone mapping. It should be night-and-day in most cases.

More than a year and a half has gone into developing madVR's tone mapping. It is one-of-a-kind in what it can do. It is pretty impressive technology. I find the tone mapping increasingly impressive as new features are added each month and it makes 4K UHD Blu-rays look really great.

If you don't want to pony up the extra money for a GTX 1070+, you can still use madVR's tone mapping in good quality with a GTX 1060 by checking one of the trade quality for performance checkboxes and adjusting a couple of other settings. This is not advisable, but it will still be an improvement over the projector's own tone mapping.

Thank you for the answer, this what I was hoping for. Do you have any links about the subject ? (How to configure madvr for that, or anything related to the subject). I look at my motherboard and it support only pci express 2.0 so I'm not sure it worth buying a high end card, as it will not be fully exploited. I will maybe wait a bit to change my motherboard, processor and the videocard if there is a true difference, as you said, I think it will worth it.
 
#3,487 ·
Hi, I currently have a Benq W1070+ PLUS and want to upgrade to a 4k projector.
I have found an Epson EH-TW9300W new for around $2800 and just want everyone opinion before pulling the trigger. I am aware that only sony do true 4k projectors but my budget is $3000.

Do you guys think the Epson EH-TW9300W is a good buy or would you recommend something else?
any help would be appreciated. also is $2800 a good price?
Thanks
 
#3,488 ·
The TW9300 is the old model, the new one is the TW9400, and that amount is about what it's going for.

This is the wrong thread to ask. Depends on what is needed from a projector. You can make a new thread or read some of the existing ones.

There is a thread on the Epson 6050UB, the US version of the TW9400 (almost identical to the 9400) here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-d...p/3060314-epson-5050ub-6050ub-thread-133.html
 
#3,497 ·
Could you expand on that a bit? In what areas could JRiver be affected - what are some of the dependencies? I ask because I've been using the latest 92.17 version and testing some with the 108 beta.
 
#3,494 · (Edited)
i just purchased and installed an RTX-2080 Super along with a new PSU into an old HTPC with PCI Express 2.0 motherboard and an i3-2100 Sandy Bridge CPU.

This is my first attempt ever at using MadVR. I am using JRiver 25 in Red October HQ mode where it downloads a version of MadVR; I think it was a 92 version.

I have MadVR configured for tone mapping to SDR and highlight recovery set to High. Statistics show 21 millisecond render times when playing UHD HDR content from a BDMV folder backup.

I will backup this JRiver Red October embedded version of MadVR and copy one of the latest test bullds over it and see how it goes.

A question regarding Lav Filters. JRiver Red October also uses embedded versions of Lav and does not seem to allow any configuration of the filters. I downloaded and installed the standalone Lav filters and tried adding them as custom filters in JRiver. But after doing so my render times went from 21 ms to 55 ms and stuttering made it unwatchable.

So am I OK with the default Lav filter settings as configured in the embedded version? Or do I need a standalone version of Lav in order to make adjustments to settings that might be recommended.
 
#3,498 ·
updated madvr to the latest version last night, all went well running it through jriver. only issue is that when i increase things from medium to sharp i get a loud whine/static sound in my speakers when nothing is playing, or if something is playing at a low volume, doesn't go away unless i change things back to medium or less.

i have a new HTPC with 16gb ram, 2060 Super 6GB & an i5, using an ssd nvme main drive.

not sure why this is happening.. whats the point if cant increase settings and i am sure my GPU can handle it?

win 10 updated, latest nvidia driver and also latest jriver version.


thanks
 
#3,511 ·
This is unrelated to madvr. Sounds like your graphics card is afflicted with coil whine. Some folks have managed to sort this out running ground cable from the PC chassis ground to the AVR ground. Sometimes removing the ground plug on the power cable for the pc also helps. Other folks have had to replace their graphics card due to it for one by a different vendor (asus vs zodiac etc). Seems sort of random on who is inflicted with coil whine and who is not.
 
#3,499 ·
I want to make an htpc.

But i have some questions. I am hoping someone will give me a hand of help.

1.Does really matters for a top htpc choosing a radeon graphic card ? I have read many things that nvidia making better pisture quality. Also i have read good things for nnedi3. any ideas?!

2. My monitor for niw is a msi mag322.it has freesync and not g sync.Does really matter if i will take the nvidia and choosing 120hz tearing/stuttering?! Or g sync is necessary?!

3. Playing a 4k in 1440p is a problem?! For refresh rate we must choose 24hz,48hz,72hz,96hz,120hz,144hz... the higher the better?! Or the best is to choose 24hz?!
 
#3,506 · (Edited)
1.There should not be any picture quality difference between nvidia and amd, the difference comes from the performance in madvr.
Madvr could support tensor cores in the future, but nothing has been confirmed.
Regarding algorithms, there are many configurations depending on hardware, material being played, and user preference.

Full guide on madvr:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

2.I don't believe g sync/freesync interacts with madvr.
Tearing/stuttering is not an nvidia/amd issue, unless relating to performance.
Motion handling is a display related characteristic. Some do it better than others.

3. Madvr can upscale/downscale to the resolution of the display.

Visual artifacts can appear when the frame rate of the video does not match the refresh rate of the display. A display with a refresh rate that is a multiple of the played video can improve the smoothness of the video. For instance, 120Hz is 5 times 24 fps, which is a refresh rate in a lot of videos.
 
#3,501 ·
Hey guys,

Am currently building my dedicated theater room, including all speakers and subs, screen, false wall, etc, so a lot of work in the next months. Luckily everything is going well so far.

Now I just discovered this thread while reading up on the new nVidia Shield, as I hadn't really thought about what to use as media player yet. I went from the idea of a Panasonic UHD player, to a Sony, to just an nVidia Shield and now I'm interested in reading up on HTPC's with madVR. Before I read through 300+ pages on several threads, could you please quickly point out the biggest advantage in going the latter route ? My projector is the Epson 6050UB, which supports HDR. I will probably have access to a lot of UHD-rips, so I assume I won't have a benefit from the upscaling features ? Is then the advanced tone-mapping the selling point for an HTPC with madVR ? Just want to make sure that there's something in it for me before reading so many pages (and ofc spending quite a bit more than with a Shield at the end).

Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have read about the features, but maybe people with older projectors or tv's are more the target audience ? All new for me, so apologies for the maybe basic question.
 
#3,503 ·
Hey guys,



Am currently building my dedicated theater room, including all speakers and subs, screen, false wall, etc, so a lot of work in the next months. Luckily everything is going well so far.



Now I just discovered this thread while reading up on the new nVidia Shield, as I hadn't really thought about what to use as media player yet. I went from the idea of a Panasonic UHD player, to a Sony, to just an nVidia Shield and now I'm interested in reading up on HTPC's with madVR. Before I read through 300+ pages on several threads, could you please quickly point out the biggest advantage in going the latter route ? My projector is the Epson 6050UB, which supports HDR. I will probably have access to a lot of UHD-rips, so I assume I won't have a benefit from the upscaling features ? Is then the advanced tone-mapping the selling point for an HTPC with madVR ? Just want to make sure that there's something in it for me before reading so many pages (and ofc spending quite a bit more than with a Shield at the end).



Thanks a lot for the feedback. I have read about the features, but maybe people with older projectors or tv's are more the target audience ? All new for me, so apologies for the maybe basic question.
The best dynamic tone mapping available with MadVR. That's the reason to use it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 
#3,502 ·
Hi, looking for some help or a hint.

I'd like my Windows 10 HTPC to boot up to rec2020 SDR at 23.976Hz, I have the 23.976 at 12bit but rec709.

The plan is for MadVR to map everything in to rec2020 so I don't get a hdmi resync when I start a HDR movie, takes an age with a JVC projector. For now I only get a resync with UHD movies, it's already in the right mode for HD movies.

I can tell Windows to run in HDR mode and then it switches to rec2020 too but I want MadVR to tone map so it would be switching back to SDR to play a HDR movie, a bit mad.

I have a Vertex so I could spoof the edid to not allow HDR but keeping rec2020 but then I'd need to switch the edid back when I switch back to the UHD player or the ATV for streaming.

Does anyone know a way to tell windows desktop to run in rec2020 12bit SDR 23.976Hz? I have an Nvidia 1070, google doesn't know, I did ask...

Thanks
 
#3,518 ·
thanx guys.

i didn't find the needi3 in my other system. that's why i thought that is only in nvidia.

i have 1440p monitor....so i find a friend who have many 4k movies.that's why.

so i must try which refresh rate fits in my system?! or there is a way to find it?!
finally does the player matters?!
 
#3,519 ·
thanx guys.



i didn't find the needi3 in my other system. that's why i thought that is only in nvidia.



i have 1440p monitor....so i find a friend who have many 4k movies.that's why.



so i must try which refresh rate fits in my system?! or there is a way to find it?!

finally does the player matters?!


Needi3 was removed from madVR ages ago.
 
#3,523 · (Edited)
my room and my setup isn't for bigger monitor. i am ok with 32inch....i am seating pretty closed. the problem is that the companies don't care so much for the 32inch monitors nowadays. An Oled in 32inch will be the best choice.
Yes i take it just for movies.

i will read all the links that you give me and if i will have questions...i hope you will be a hand of help like now. Thanx guys. for now i can't understand why i must put the refresh rate to 60hz ....48hz is the double of 24hz.60hz is a mismatch.
 
#3,524 · (Edited)
I don't know the market specifics, but surely 32" TV's exist that would fit these needs better than a $400 gaming monitor.

There is an LCD sub forum on AVS, maybe inquire there before making a purchase.
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-flat-panel-displays/
Especially now with BF approaching.

LE: Don't think OLED TV's exist under 55"(?), but this monitor is VA, so plenty of 32" VA TV's.
 
#3,525 ·
Based on this thread I planned to add a 1050 Ti to my (PCIe 2.0) motherboard and give it a try, but if I get a good deal on a RTX 2060 (Super) I might be able to afford to get that.

Question is; how much would PCIe 2.0 slow things down, especially for HDR tone mapping ?
 
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