Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 2870 Old 12-18-2016, 02:43 PM
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I agree...go with a GTX1060..evga sells the SC model and its small enough for all mini itx builds. Its worth the difference over the 1050ti. As far as CPU, id hold out for a Kaby Lake as this is future proofed and the only way tonget netflix 4k on a native app on the pc.
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post #182 of 2870 Old 12-18-2016, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
e shift results in a real UHD image i don't know why you want to disable it.
the hdfury splitter doesn't make any sense for me.
I believe upthread someone mentioned that having the GPU upscale to 4K, then sending a native 4K to the RS400 might be a better picture.

Right now the splitter is needed as the receiver is so old (HDMI 1.4) I doubt it'd pass a 4K signal. So I believe I need HDMI 2.0a to projector and HDMI 1.4 to the receiver for audio.

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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
I'd go with the GTX 1060 to be safe.
Ok - I'll hunt around and see. This HTPC is solely for movie watching and is turned on maybe 2-3 times a month. So not sure if I can swing the extra just for that but we'll see!

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post #183 of 2870 Old 12-18-2016, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Zamora View Post
I agree...go with a GTX1060..evga sells the SC model and its small enough for all mini itx builds. Its worth the difference over the 1050ti. As far as CPU, id hold out for a Kaby Lake as this is future proofed and the only way tonget netflix 4k on a native app on the pc.
Yeeks - did some more research. The GTX 1060 is $60 more for a 3 GB version and $110 more for a 6 GB option.

4K needs 4GB or more? If so 1050 TI 4 GB to 1060 6 GB is about $110 more
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post #184 of 2870 Old 12-18-2016, 09:14 PM
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i bought a gigabyte D5 1050 and it very quiet compared to the Zotac I bought first time around. i don't do anything that high-end like madvr or anything. just watch 4k video on 4k tv. works for me.

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/pro...px?pid=6064#kf\

edit: i forgot the title of this thread is 4k for madVR... may not be helpful.

Last edited by mingus; 12-18-2016 at 09:18 PM.
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post #185 of 2870 Old 12-21-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by madshi View Post
If I were shopping for a GPU now I'd get an NVidia 1050, 1060 or 1070, depending on how much money you want to spend. Make sure you have at least 3GB VRAM, or better yet 4GB.
That sounds like good advice.

With respect to a 1050 Ti-4GB, vs. 1060-3GB, which would run into constraints quicker? I'm leaning toward the later.

[ As stm69 wrote: "4K needs 4GB or more? If so 1050 TI 4 GB to 1060 6 GB is about $110 more", and I'm not inclined to make that kind of jump (at this time). ]
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post #186 of 2870 Old 12-31-2016, 09:24 AM
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upscale or not upscale, that is the question...

I'm starting to look into the upgrade to UHD (tv and htpc).
But, I still have questions about best option to upscale from 1080p (720p).
I mainly make use of mkv 1080 (720 if unavailable higher) post-processed with the right filters (ffdshow, madvr ...).
So several possibilities that I think of:
- output to the tv by sending directly the post-processed stream in 1080 and leave the tv quality upscale processor (samsumg / sony ...) (there I do not necessarily need To invest immediately in a new GPU) I read that as of end 2016, they do a good job.
- either mount a big htpc machine, upscale with madvr or better option if existing, post-process if that is possible at 4k scale, and send all that to the tv through hdmi 2.0 cable
- (elucubration maybe) either make an intermediate upscale in 2k by the pc then the final upscale by tv ...
 
I admit that I find it difficult to find information on the different setup possibilities to achieve the optimal upscale if it exists at the time being. I read (but the sources are already aged almost 1 year) that it was better to let the TV upscale the contents because the internal processor was the most fit but it was as I said a few months ago.
 
Is there anybody able to, by feedback or knowledge, suggest the ideal setup for the upscale 4k or at least some insights? ..
Thank you and happy new year's eve!
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post #187 of 2870 Old 12-31-2016, 02:40 PM
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In January I bought a new HTPC to go with a new 4k HDR LG OLED TV (9500)

It's an i5-6600 with GTX 970, mainly used for home cinema with the occasional game of Dota2 - I don't play any other games.

I use mpc-hc with madvr, madvr auto changes the resolution of the TV and auto changes the colour mode into my professionally calibrated settings.

I recently tried to play some 4k 10bit HEVC videos and I suffer from dropped frames.

I thought this PC would be powerful enough to handle 4k but apparently the 970 geforce cards don't have hardware decoding?

Is there other software I should be using that will still auto change the res and colour like madvr does?
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post #188 of 2870 Old 12-31-2016, 03:32 PM
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@VideoGrabber , I don't know.

@Bill , the TVs might be better now than they were in the past, but according to all the feedback I've received, madVR still has noticeably higher upscaling quality. I haven't really done much comparisons vs TV build in upscaling myself, though. But considering how complex my upscaling algos are, I would be surprised if TVs could compete.

@famasfilms , only the 950/960 in the 9xx GPU generation can decode HEVC. You're limited by the decoding. You need a 950/960, or a 1050/1060/1070/1080 if you want to play 4K HEVC videos. That said, there's not really much 4K HEVC content available yet that HTPCs have access to, so it might be a good idea to delay upgrading your hardware until such content really starts to appear.
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post #189 of 2870 Old 12-31-2016, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
@VideoGrabber , I don't know.
That's too bad. But thanks anyway. Onkyoman wrote:

> Video RAM of 4GB may be necessary for 4K UHD playback, while 2GB of RAM is suitable for 1080p screens.

and it would be nice if, 10 months later, we had a bit better guidance than that. An even more pessimistic viewpoint might be that if 2GB is required to support 1080p, then 4K may demand 8GB (4x as much) to achieve the same results. I do know that those pushing madVR to the max are using GTX 1080 cards, with 8GB of VRAM. What I don't know is how much is actually required.

Quote:
@Bill , the TVs might be better now than they were in the past, but according to all the feedback I've received, madVR still has noticeably higher upscaling quality. I haven't really done much comparisons vs TV build in upscaling myself, though. But considering how complex my upscaling algos are, I would be surprised if TVs could compete.
To follow up on this a bit, madVR still has better upscaling quality than the newest 4K TV's. Even the best can't compete. Which really isn't surprising, since that's not their goal.

That said, they may not have to. It all depends on the situation, which is different in every configuration. If you're viewing a moderately large 5-ft wide 4K screen from 14' away, with cable-quality source material, you may not see any discernible difference at all. OTOH, if you're viewing a 9' wide projected image from just 10' away, sourced from a good Blu-ray, every tiny detail will be revealed. Which is what makes madVR such a big win, and justifies setting up a custom HTPC to run it.

Considering that madshi has made madVR available at no $ cost, and continues to support and enhance it, the only 'expense' involved is the (modest) learning curve to use it most effectively (and a vidcard that can support it). We all owe him a huge debt of gratitude for his efforts, and his generosity.

So let me say, thanks madshi for creating such a phenomenal piece of software engineering, and Happy New Year!
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post #190 of 2870 Old 12-31-2016, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post

@famasfilms , only the 950/960 in the 9xx GPU generation can decode HEVC. You're limited by the decoding. You need a 950/960, or a 1050/1060/1070/1080 if you want to play 4K HEVC videos. That said, there's not really much 4K HEVC content available yet that HTPCs have access to, so it might be a good idea to delay upgrading your hardware until such content really starts to appear.
Thank you for the answer - plus the HEVC files that are available only come with stereo sound - so no reason to beat myself up about not being able to play them!
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post #191 of 2870 Old 01-02-2017, 07:44 PM
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madshi - if you need someone to test hdr - I volunteer. Thank you for making such a great product!
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post #192 of 2870 Old 01-04-2017, 08:21 AM
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Hi,
I currently have a HTPC with AMD A10-7860. Is this APU good enough to run madVR if I add a graphic card?
Motherboard is MSI A88XM-E45 and has PCle 3.0 x16 slot.
I never play games. The HTPC is solely for Movie watching.
Thanks in advance.

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post #193 of 2870 Old 01-04-2017, 09:48 PM
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Any news out of CES about UHD PC drives?
I'm keen on upgrading my HTPC to a Server + Client setup, but not jumping into UHD until I can backup my own discs and play them through Plex.

If that means I miss out, then it means hardware companies and the studios miss out on my money.
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post #194 of 2870 Old 01-05-2017, 09:07 AM
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It's the first day of CES, so we'll likely know about UHD-BD on PC by the end of the weekend. Cyberlink keeps dropping hashtag pokes on their social media accounts, so we know it's coming.
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post #195 of 2870 Old 01-05-2017, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9610172 View Post
Hi,
I currently have a HTPC with AMD A10-7860. Is this APU good enough to run madVR if I add a graphic card?
Motherboard is MSI A88XM-E45 and has PCle 3.0 x16 slot.
I never play games. The HTPC is solely for Movie watching.
Thanks in advance.
The CPU isn't important if you are using hardware decoding. So adding a GPU would make your system useable for madVR, which runs exclusively on the GPU.

If you want to play HEVC files, you will need a GPU with an HEVC hardware decoder.
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post #196 of 2870 Old 01-05-2017, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
The CPU isn't important if you are using hardware decoding. So adding a GPU would make your system useable for madVR, which runs exclusively on the GPU.

If you want to play HEVC files, you will need a GPU with an HEVC hardware decoder.

Got it. Thank you.

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post #197 of 2870 Old 01-08-2017, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Iggy SLO View Post
Yeah, I figured, but why then does the CPU get overwhelmed? Usage is at around 45-65 % with 24 fps and 100% with 60 fps.

You guys can try the demos I'm talking about yourself. But beware that it takes very long to download from this site (haven't been able to find these videos elsewhere yet).

This is the kind of video that works perfectly (2160p24): http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=153

Then I also have a couple 2160p60 and none of them work well. Example: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=151
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You are using software decoding so the CPU is used exclusively to decode the video. As stated, you need a GPU with an HEVC decoder to play those files smoothly.
So my brother has the same CPU as I do (AMD FX-8350), but with a GTX 1080 instead of 970, and when playing those 2160p60 files he gets a crazy amount of dropped frames as well. What is going on here? I really don't get it. The player is MPC-HC and it's pretty much the same with any renderer, so this isn't exclusive to madVR.

Do you also have to have a newer CPU to playback a 60 fps UHD video?

Doesn't the 1080 have a HEVC hardware decoder? Do you have to enable it or something (if so, how)?

Last edited by Iggy SLO; 01-08-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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post #198 of 2870 Old 01-08-2017, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy SLO View Post
So my brother has the same CPU as I do (AMD FX-8350), but with a GTX 1080 instead of 970, and when playing those 2160p60 files he gets a crazy amount of dropped frames as well. What is going on here? I really don't get it. The player is MPC-HC and it's pretty much the same with any renderer, so this isn't exclusive to madVR.

Do you also have to have a newer CPU to playback a 60 fps UHD video?

Doesn't the 1080 have a HEVC hardware decoder? Do you have to enable it or something (if so, how)?
Did you enable DXVA2 (copy-back) in LAV Video and check the HEVC box?
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post #199 of 2870 Old 01-08-2017, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Did you enable DXVA2 (copy-back) in LAV Video and check the HEVC box?
Could you tell me where I can find those settings?

The only DXVA2 setting I can find is in madVR's "image upscaling" (processing done by GPU video logic) and I'm not sure if that's what you mean.

edit: do you mean this?



I didn't have it enabled and I doubt my brother has it. Gonna have to make him check.

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post #200 of 2870 Old 01-08-2017, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy SLO View Post
Could you tell me where I can find those settings?

The only DXVA2 setting I can find is in madVR's "image upscaling" (processing done by GPU video logic) and I'm not sure if that's what you mean.

edit: do you mean this?



I didn't have it enabled and I doubt my brother has it. Gonna have to make him check.
Yes thats where you need to select it.
LAV settings.
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post #201 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 01:09 AM
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I just got a samsung ks8005 55" tv and now i will have to invest in a new htpc .

I have been locking at a Intel NUC NUC7i5BNK or Intel NUC NUC7i3BNK will they be able to handle MadVR at 4k? if i understand it correctly they have built in 10bit-4K decoding, so the question does the cpu and the iGPU have enough horsepower to run MadVR upscaling or should i look for a HTPC with a dGPU?

Im watching mostly 720p & 1080p and a few 4k movies.

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post #202 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 06:33 AM
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Get something that can take a discrete gpu.
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post #203 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 06:37 AM
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Get something that can take a discrete gpu.
Thanks but i have one more question then, the new intel cpu's/iGPU supports HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 correct me if im wrong but nvidia and amd don't so if i add a dGPU will i still be able to take advantage of those? they are required for netflix 4k streaming..
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post #204 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 06:43 AM
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Wrong. Get a Pascal based nvidia card. They support hdmi 2.0b and hdcp 2.2 along with full hardware hevc decoding.
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post #205 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 06:53 AM
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Wrong. Get a Pascal based nvidia card. They support hdmi 2.0b and hdcp 2.2 along with full hardware hevc decoding.
Nice does it also support hdr?
If that is the case could you recommend a specific pascal card that would have the performance required for 4K upscaling? (the cheaper the better)

Edit: it also looks like PlayReady 3.0 is required does pascal support that?

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post #206 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 07:12 AM
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You'd be safe with a gtx 1070. Many people also use the 1060.

It all depends on what you want to do with madvr. There is no gpu that can run everything maxed out.

You'll have to look into the playready stuff. I don't see why it wouldn't work as all the hardware is there but that requirement was only announced with kabi lake press info.

Last I checked madvr does not pass hdr to the video card. Something about no standard that works across amd, nvidia, and Intel.

There is also almost no hdr content on a pc.
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post #207 of 2870 Old 01-16-2017, 09:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petoj87 View Post
Nice does it also support hdr?
If that is the case could you recommend a specific pascal card that would have the performance required for 4K upscaling? (the cheaper the better)

Edit: it also looks like PlayReady 3.0 is required does pascal support that?
madVR already supports HDR is some form. The program is awaiting HDR passthrough to be enabled at the driver level for complete compatibility.

As far as graphics cards go, the GTX 1060 is a good place to start. The GTX 960 is also capable, but barely.
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post #208 of 2870 Old 01-17-2017, 03:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madshi View Post
... If I were shopping for a GPU now I'd get an NVidia 1050, 1060 or 1070, depending on how much money you want to spend. Make sure you have at least 3GB VRAM, or better yet 4GB. And don't get a Polaris, they perform really bad when using madVR's latest NGU resolution doubling algorithm.
There you have it... your expectations might be higher but the results would match your budget.... I am using GTX 1050 Ti and very happy with NGU performance under v0.91.5.

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post #209 of 2870 Old 01-17-2017, 03:42 AM
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There you have it... your expectations might be higher but the results would match your budget.... I am using GTX 1050 Ti and very happy with NGU performance under v0.91.5.
Thanks for your help guys!

If i get a GTX 1050 it would outperform my gaming rig , so i think ill stick with the intel iGPU for now but get a "Desktop version" and buy a GTX 1050 or better when they fall in price..

But that means building a pc, now i have to find a small chassi that is somewhat small plus can hold a dGPU (preferably all white and flat instead of high).
I liked the small formfactor of the NUC 115 × 111 × 35 mm thats just insane (the idea was to have it placed on the tv bench not in it) but i guess ill have to rethink that idea.
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post #210 of 2870 Old 01-17-2017, 03:47 AM
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It's all a question of which processing power you want. The integrated GPUs are betting better, too. E.g. you could try getting a CPU from AMD with a fast integrated GPU. Not sure if they can do 4K NGU upscaling. Maybe they can in "low" quality mode, I don't really know.
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