Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 89 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2641 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
As huhn mentioned, I think the best way is with custom resolution (if your device supports it), normally only 23p has to be added:

- get the values with madvr

- then set those values in the level of OS using CRU



nVidia driver version is also important, it can screw this up, v385.28 works for sure.
Thanx, will try that.
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post #2642 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Honestly, I do not think an RTX 2060 is sufficient for this. Good upscaling you want to use double and double again so a 720 --> 4k is double the upscale effort vs 1080p --> 4K. A 480-->4K is even harder. My 1080TI does OK on this. My friend's 1070 had to be set to direct quadruple for 720p source. I'd be looking at a 1080 or 2070 min, maybe a 2080 or 1080ti. Sorry.


Yikes! That’s a lot more than I was hoping to have to spend on a video card.

What compromises would have to be made to upscale the 720p content?
I don’t mind some significant compromises on the 480 content as I’m working to replace that content with Blu-ray over time.

I suppose I could re-rip everything to 1080. I just found that 720p x264 hit the sweet spot between size and quality.
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post #2643 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by trpltongue View Post
What compromises would have to be made to upscale the 720p content?
I watch heavily compressed 60fps 720p content (~4-5GB) nowdays on my 1060 (NBA playoff games) using super-xbr (I think). The result does look good from 3m on B8.

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post #2644 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trpltongue View Post
Yikes! That’s a lot more than I was hoping to have to spend on a video card.

What compromises would have to be made to upscale the 720p content?
I don’t mind some significant compromises on the 480 content as I’m working to replace that content with Blu-ray over time.

I suppose I could re-rip everything to 1080. I just found that 720p x264 hit the sweet spot between size and quality.
You could simply lower the upscaling settings in madVR. There are enough options to always get a good result without using the highest spec graphics card.
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post #2645 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by trpltongue View Post
Yikes! That’s a lot more than I was hoping to have to spend on a video card.

What compromises would have to be made to upscale the 720p content?
I don’t mind some significant compromises on the 480 content as I’m working to replace that content with Blu-ray over time.

I suppose I could re-rip everything to 1080. I just found that 720p x264 hit the sweet spot between size and quality.
The compromise you'd have to make is on the screen where you configure upscaling, for quadrupling, you'd have to use "direct quadruple" instead of "double and double again" which does a lot better job. How noticeable this all is also depends on the size of your display and how close you sit. I'm 7 feet from a 135" screen. If you're running on a 4K TV, it's probably not going to matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
I watch heavily compressed 60fps 720p content (~4-5GB) nowdays on my 1060 (NBA playoff games) using super-xbr (I think). The result does look good from 3m on B8.
Ugh, if you cant use NGU scaling options, your'e really not benefiting from madVR's upscaler.

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post #2646 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Ugh, if you cant use NGU scaling options, your'e really not benefiting from madVR's upscaler.
Naah, let's not be that dramatic I was shocked as well, I thought it would be way worse.

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post #2647 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 08:47 AM
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Hi, I posted this in the HTPC for NX7 thread also, but this thread seems to be more active so will try here also.

I have been using MadVR with my NX7 and loving almost everything. My last issue I am trying to troubleshoot is a stutter that is only noticeable in long (20 seconds or more) pan shots. I will typically see one stutter in that time. I am using windows 10 and kodi dsplayer. My render times are around 23 msec and madvr reports one repeated frame every 10 minutes or so. There are almost no dropped frames after the first 5 seconds of playback. My graphics card is an nvidia rtx 2070 using driver version 419.35.
Any advice on things to try would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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post #2648 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 09:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Try 418.91. It seems to be most reliable with RTX cards. And read this thread:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013
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post #2649 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 11:27 AM
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Will try the driver first thanks. Any benefit to setting up custom refresh rates in madvr?


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post #2650 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You are downscaling the image a bit. If it is an original rip with black bars, the output should say 0,0,3840,2160 -> 0,0,3840,2160, but it says 0,0,3840,2160 -> 0,84,3203,1886.

Check the GPU control panel to see what resolution is set. Did you create any custom resolutions or change the media player zoom mode?
As you suggested, it was madVR 'Zoom control/ automatically detect hard coded black bars'. also 'screen config' that was causing the output downscale. I use 'screen config' to avoid IMAX aspect ratio change.

However this wasn't causing the dropped frame rates/Render & present queues issues. This was down to using 'HDR/tone map HDR using pixel shaders'. Any idea why this is causing such issues?
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post #2651 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 02:48 PM
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So is a 2060 good enough to do pretty much everything? I would rather save some money instead of going with a 2070 if I can. The 2080 is for sure out of the question. I can't find any 1070s or 1080s. I found a 2070 mini at a decent price, but still about $200 more than a 2060.

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post #2652 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
So is a 2060 good enough to do pretty much everything? I would rather save some money instead of going with a 2070 if I can. The 2080 is for sure out of the question. I can't find any 1070s or 1080s. I found a 2070 mini at a decent price, but still about $200 more than a 2060.
1070 and 1080 is used market.
1070's go for $200-225
1080's go for $325-350

Or there abouts.
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post #2653 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cogdok View Post
Will try the driver first thanks. Any benefit to setting up custom refresh rates in madvr?


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It depends on whether you can notice the frame drops or repeats or not. They are infrequent, as outlined in this example:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&page=10
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post #2654 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
As you suggested, it was madVR 'Zoom control/ automatically detect hard coded black bars'. also 'screen config' that was causing the output downscale. I use 'screen config' to avoid IMAX aspect ratio change.

However this wasn't causing the dropped frame rates/Render & present queues issues. This was down to using 'HDR/tone map HDR using pixel shaders'. Any idea why this is causing such issues?
You might need to lower the setting for chroma upscaling and/or choose D3D11 Native hardware decoding in LAV Video. You do lose black bar detection if you use D3D11 Native decoding, though.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-02-2019 at 04:42 PM.
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post #2655 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
So is a 2060 good enough to do pretty much everything? I would rather save some money instead of going with a 2070 if I can. The 2080 is for sure out of the question. I can't find any 1070s or 1080s. I found a 2070 mini at a decent price, but still about $200 more than a 2060.
If using tone mapping with a 1080p projector, an RTX 2060 can do everything. I think it is adequate for most at 4K, too. It depends on whether or not you use any artifact removal or care about 1080p -> 4K upscaling at very high quality.
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post #2656 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
If using tone mapping with a 1080p projector, an RTX 2060 can do everything. I think it is adequate for most at 4K, too. It depends on whether or not you use any artifact removal or care about 1080p -> 4K upscaling at very high quality.
Well, it would be for a JVC NX5. So I would want to do upscaling. Would it have to be the highest quality and perfect, no, but I would want good quality. What would be the difference? For sure the 2080 is out of the question. So 2070 or 2060. If I could find a used 1080 then I would go that route. Is it equivalent to the 2080? The 2070 I am looking at is the Zotac rtx 2070 mini.

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Last edited by 04rex; 05-02-2019 at 06:44 PM.
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post #2657 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Why does this matter? If you first select D3D11 doesn't that select the mode? Then the device selection is just manually picking vs letting LAV filters auto decide?

Edit: Nevermind. I just loaded LAV filter decoder settings to make sure I was setup right, and it says it right there in plain text: "Selecting a specific device for D3D11 disables Native mode and forces Copy-Back, use Automatic for the best performance"
I apologize for the beginner question, but do i need to update the LAV filters (in Kodi DSplayer) to be able to select D3D11 automatic? Currently I only see D3D11 as a selection within the DSplayer settings (under LAV video), but nothing about native or automatic.

I'm using a i7-2600k > GTX 1080 GPU, but I'm dropping frames with 4K files and rendering very high around 50 or so.

Thanks
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post #2658 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Naah, let's not be that dramatic I was shocked as well, I thought it would be way worse.
This is not being dramatic. The reason madVR's upscaler is so good is because of the NGU family scalers based on a bunch of A/I algorithms. If you're not using that, you're not benefiting from madVR's upscaling. I'm not saying your setup looks terrible. I'm just saying you're not getting the benefits. On several scenes, the NGU scalers actually look 4K.

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post #2659 of 4109 Old 05-02-2019, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Well, it would be for a JVC NX5. So I would want to do upscaling. Would it have to be the highest quality and perfect, no, but I would want good quality. What would be the difference? For sure the 2080 is out of the question. So 2070 or 2060. If I could find a used 1080 then I would go that route. Is it equivalent to the 2080? The 2070 I am looking at is the Zotac rtx 2070 mini.
For upscaling on your new 4K projector, I'd get a 2070 or 1080 minimum. My friend's 1070 is just a little too weak for this task. My 1080TI is good, but still cant have every thing on max. The 1080 regular or 2070 would probably be a minimum for what I'd want for proper NGU upscaling with double/double again for 720p sources. You want to be able to use NGU high for 1080p sources.

You can get used 1080 on ebay in the $300 range. I'd go that route.

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post #2660 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
You might need to lower the setting for chroma upscaling and/or choose D3D11 Native hardware decoding in LAV Video. You do lose black bar detection if you use D3D11 Native decoding, though.
Thanks. I will try lowering chroma upscalimg first. I’ve not figured out D3D11/LAV video in JRiver/madVR, never gone down this route. I guess I have to download these? I shall do some digging. Cheers
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post #2661 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 03:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
I watch heavily compressed 60fps 720p content (~4-5GB) nowdays on my 1060 (NBA playoff games) using super-xbr (I think). The result does look good from 3m on B8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
This is not being dramatic. The reason madVR's upscaler is so good is because of the NGU family scalers based on a bunch of A/I algorithms. If you're not using that, you're not benefiting from madVR's upscaling. I'm not saying your setup looks terrible. I'm just saying you're not getting the benefits. On several scenes, the NGU scalers actually look 4K.
That was 60fps 720p content, just checked this morning what I set for 24/25fps 720p: NGU AA high doubling (for luma and chroma) as well.
Similarly, 24/25fps 1080p: NGU Sharp high doubling
(Using d3d11 native, since it's way faster than copyback.)
Note, that I don't use madvr's pixelshader hdr2sdr conversion, I use hdr passthrough.

And this is with an underclocked (!) and slightly undervolted 1060 6GB MSI Gaming X that is dead silent (I don't have any other fans in the PC apart from the GPU fans).
A 1070 should be 1.5x faster than the 1060 6GB (having 1.5x more cuda cores).

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Last edited by chros73; 05-03-2019 at 03:15 AM.
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post #2662 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:28 AM
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Hello all.

Some easy questions since the thread is very big and almost all info is around nvidia based cards.

1. Can the RX580 provide HDR signal? Are there any special settings required in order to do so? If so, which ones (MADVR or Windows/AMD ones?)?
2. Can the RX580 passthrough HD Audio codecs? Including ATMOS and DTS X?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2663 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post
Well, it would be for a JVC NX5. So I would want to do upscaling. Would it have to be the highest quality and perfect, no, but I would want good quality. What would be the difference? For sure the 2080 is out of the question. So 2070 or 2060. If I could find a used 1080 then I would go that route. Is it equivalent to the 2080? The 2070 I am looking at is the Zotac rtx 2070 mini.
The RTX 2060 is compatible with the "high" setting for upscaling. I think this is already pretty good quality. A perfectionist might want very high.

If you are upscaling 720p content, it is a good idea to manually set downscaling after image doubling to SSIM 1D. That adjustment alone makes high closer to very high.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-03-2019 at 06:14 AM.
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post #2664 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Thanks. I will try lowering chroma upscalimg first. I’ve not figured out D3D11/LAV video in JRiver/madVR, never gone down this route. I guess I have to download these? I shall do some digging. Cheers
There should be a setting for video filters in JRiver. You might have to ask in a JRiver thread or consult the Wiki for more information on where to find this. The developer of LAV Filters works for JRiver.
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post #2665 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbn008 View Post
I apologize for the beginner question, but do i need to update the LAV filters (in Kodi DSplayer) to be able to select D3D11 automatic? Currently I only see D3D11 as a selection within the DSplayer settings (under LAV video), but nothing about native or automatic.

I'm using a i7-2600k > GTX 1080 GPU, but I'm dropping frames with 4K files and rendering very high around 50 or so.

Thanks
Towards the end of this post, there are some instructions on how to upgrade LAV Filters for DSPlayer:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...566#pid1966566

You don't need to do this to select D3D11 Native. If you leave it at the default "Automatic," you will see "Native" in brackets beside it.

Last edited by Onkyoman; 05-03-2019 at 06:14 AM.
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post #2666 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:42 AM
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This is not strictly MadVR related, but i think it might be useful for madVR users with Nvidia cards.
It seems that the Nvidia drivers ship with a lot of "hidden" "features" that are installed by default, and always run in the Background such as Telemetry, etc.

Guru3D has a tool, NVIDIA Slimming Utility, that allows o strip all unwanted features, allowing to create a "clean" driver with only the important functionality:



The relevant functionality seems to be:
  • Install Core
  • Core Display Update
  • HD Audio
  • NGX Core (*)

(*) NGX Core seems to be required to use Tensor Cores, so as madshi has stated that he may use them in the future, its better to install NGX Core.

I'm going to use DDU to uninstall the current driver, and apply the Slimming utility to the 418.91 driver.
I'm not expecting any major improvement, but the idea is to use the minimum required software to make the system run as stable as possible.
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post #2667 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
There should be a setting for video filters in JRiver. You might have to ask in a JRiver thread or consult the Wiki for more information on where to find this. The developer of LAV Filters works for JRiver.
Thanks again.

I found this if anyone interested ‘reply #20



https://yabb.jriver.com/interact/ind...topic=115826.0
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post #2668 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
Towards the end of this post, there are some instructions on how to upgrade LAV Filters for DSPlayer:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php...566#pid1966566

You don't need to do this to select D3D11 Native. If you leave it at the default "Automatic," you will see "Native" in brackets beside it.
thank you Onkyoman
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post #2669 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 11:11 AM
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When looking at the Graphics cards, should we be looking at the max resolution? So I notice some cards say 4096x2160 and others say 3840x2160. And some are what I assume 8k ready. The 2070 Mini I am looking at states HDMI 2.0 3840x2160 @ 60hz, by Zotac.

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post #2670 of 4109 Old 05-03-2019, 03:54 PM
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i have i5 7500 ang 8gb ram and rx550 4gb

what is recommended setting for me ?
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