Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 92 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2731 of 3072 Old 05-17-2019, 11:55 AM
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Then you're doing something incorrect imo. Full rip iso's display exactly as mkv's in libraries, at least they do in Kodi. Kodi automatically, no hands on unless you want to, adds all artwork to iso's just as mkv's. When I want to play an mkv or an iso or any other format, I press enter on the title in the library and it plays. I don't have to navigate any title structure as you've pointed out you are doing. Currently I'm using 6 different players (VideoPlayer, MPC-HC, MPC-BE, PotPlayer, PowerDVD, and DVDFab Media Player) each assigned for specific playback. Any of these can also manually be selected using the 'play using' function in Kodi.

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post #2732 of 3072 Old 05-17-2019, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
My problem with the fullbackups is just getting them to display correctly in a media library. I cant figure out a way to get only the bdmv file to display correctly.



Whereas kodi and plexs librarys will do all the work of adding artwork/display images etc if you are opening mkv's instead of bdmvs.



Like right now when I go into Kodi, I have to go into the video/backup/moviename/bdmv/moviefile. Whereas with mkv's I can just go M/video/moviefile and it wont show me the folders and files it cant open.



Is there a way to tell Kodi to not show me folders i will never want it to open? Then I wouldnt feel the need to turn my backups into MKV's, if I can just hide the folders i dont want to see.


Still though unless you need all that info for something I'd just slowly redo them all. Mkvs are just too convenient and work with pretty much everything.


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post #2733 of 3072 Old 05-17-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Is there a way to tell Kodi to not show me folders i will never want it to open? Then I wouldnt feel the need to turn my backups into MKV's, if I can just hide the folders i dont want to see.
Under the following conditions, you will experience what you describe I think. See if you meet any of the following conditions and if so start at the top for easiest fix:


You navigate to your titles using the 'Videos' tab instead of the 'Movies' tab. Try the Movies tab and see if you are still presented with further folder navigation instead of just starting the movie. Using v.19, it does not matter Movies or Videos when using folder structure rips in my recent tests.


You are using outdated Kodi 17.6 or earlier. Update to version 18 or 19. Your behavior was common back when I used those now outdated versions.


Your full rip is loose folder structure and not contained in an iso. Use ImgBurn to create an iso of your fully ripped loose folder structure. The largest of titles takes about 5 mins on a slow computer. Loose folder structure also leads to many other problems fwiw. In the future, rip directly to iso.


Keep in mind, mkv's are not full backed up rips of your disc. They are partial and should peril come to the original disc for any number of reasons in the future, you will never regain it should you need it. mkv's are appealing for players that are not capable of playing full rips. Personally, I don't mess with media in order to conform with a mediocre player. Instead I use a player that is fully capable and avoid tailoring and ruining media especially when it's my backup. That said, all players will play iso's perfectly fine... just not with menus. That's reserved for more complex players.
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post #2734 of 3072 Old 05-18-2019, 12:36 AM
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Is there a guide that explains how to go about setting up for 'tone map HDR using pixel shaders' for a projector?
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post #2735 of 3072 Old 05-18-2019, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Not that test build. All (or most) of those options would disappear if there was an official build.

For now, I would stick to the default values and only enter the real display nits for your projector.
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post #2736 of 3072 Old 05-18-2019, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Cant find a definitive answer -

Built my HTPC am using makemkv to backup, am using Kodi Dsplayer for playback, video rendering with madvr, am in the process of backing up my bluray/uhd collection. I have a 6tb internal harddrive, as well as a 1tb ssd, but am looking to get more storage as I plan on backing up my entire bluray collection which is quite extensive.

I am looking at NAS prebuilts, but am curious if I couldnt just rip to External harddrives? Can these playback the bdmv files or are they not compatible with passing through a 3.0 usb?
I've used a couple of external hard drives in the past. They say they are same drives as the internal ones, but I've had one completely fail and the other was starting to exhibit issues. I would recommended avoiding external drives and sticking to internal ones. For one, they are much easier to deal with in Windows. Two, having the drive connected via USB seems to involve a lot more wear and tear on the drive. I would never trust external drives in the future.

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post #2737 of 3072 Old 05-18-2019, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
I've used a couple of external hard drives in the past. They say they are same drives as the internal ones, but I've had one completely fail and the other was starting to exhibit issues. I would recommended avoiding external drives and sticking to internal ones. For one, they are much easier to deal with in Windows. Two, having the drive connected via USB seems to involved a lot more wear and tear on the drive. I would never trust external drives in the future.
Some of the cheap USB external drives have a native USB interface. This means if you crack open the USB case, instead of an SATA drive attached to a USB to SATA controller, you see a drive that's native USB. I wouldn't consider USB to be a stable enough protocol to be a good option for a full time drive.

@Maestrosc Cant you just put another internal drive into your computer?

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post #2738 of 3072 Old 05-18-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Some of the cheap USB external drives have a native USB interface. This means if you crack open the USB case, instead of an SATA drive attached to a USB to SATA controller, you see a drive that's native USB. I wouldn't consider USB to be a stable enough protocol to be a good option for a full time drive.

@Maestrosc Cant you just put another internal drive into your computer?
The case I bought doesnt have another slot to hold the HDD in any organized fashion. Im pretty sure it would support another drive on the motherboard, but I'll have to make sure. I already have an ssd, a hdd, and an optical drive connected.

The external hdd will at least be a solution for the meanwhile to make sure I can continue ripping for the time being haha. I have close to 200 films to rip and am only about 5% there.

Will look at either building a server, or buying some sort of storage device like raid server in the future.

Im not planning on getting rid of my discs, so in the case of a failure I will just be forced to rip them again in the future.
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post #2739 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 07:42 AM
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these "native" usb HDDs are usually just soldered tot he sata port so they should be a avoid because if the USB chip dies the disc dies unlike sata disc.
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post #2740 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 08:12 AM
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Only time I have seen these is in 2.5” disks. I’ve ever seen a 3.5” native usb interface. But maybe they exist and I just have seen one.

The disks inside externals are the same as internal, at least for Western Digital.

I have about 150TB and 24 drives that I have removed out of WD externals and have had no problems with failed disks over the last few years of running them 24/7 inside my server in RAID arrays.

I recommend buying externals because they are so much cheaper. These days they are around $130 for 8TB and $160 for 10TB.

With the amount that you save, you could even buy a few extra drives to replace any that do fail.

But even if you open the cases you can still put them back inside for an RMA, or at least I have been able to successfully.
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post #2741 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 09:27 AM
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I have shucked over 200 3.5" drives over the years and I have never found a single one, from any manufacturer, that had anything other than a regular SATA/power port connector. There are some that you HAVE reformat the drive after you shucked it since the USB bridge uses some sort of proprietary driver but a clean format after shucking fixes that right up...in other words, do NOT transfer data to the drive before you shuck.
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post #2742 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 09:58 AM
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here you have one:

beware i personally buy external and remove them from the case but because i can do it or you can do it that doesn't mean everyone is and most importantly willingly to do the same.
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post #2743 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
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I have shucked over 200 3.5" drives over the years and I have never found a single one, from any manufacturer, that had anything other than a regular SATA/power port connector. There are some that you HAVE reformat the drive after you shucked it since the USB bridge uses some sort of proprietary driver but a clean format after shucking fixes that right up...in other words, do NOT transfer data to the drive before you shuck.
Have you mastered the art of not destroying the external case? (I might be hopeless.....)
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post #2744 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
here you have one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFjF1x-Rj0o



beware i personally buy external and remove them from the case but because i can do it or you can do it that doesn't mean everyone is and most importantly willingly to do the same.


That’s not a 3.5” HDD.
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post #2745 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 10:58 AM
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The 2011 tsunami affected hard drive production. At that time, you were lucky to even find a reasonably priced internal hard drive. External hard drives became the priority and we began shucking them. I don't think that has changed since. You would think an internal bare drive, requiring less parts because there is no enclosure, USB bridge, included cables, power supply and increased assembly labor, would be less expensive... but it isn't. External drives were then and are now less expensive afaik. Perhaps because HTPC's were deemed out of fashion in exchange for streaming content and occasional attached storage for streaming devices which cannot accommodate additional internal HDD storage.


Through the years I've bought new external drives and shucked them as my collection grows. I take the newer larger drives and mount them local inside my Silverstone HTPC. I've modded it to comfortably mount (11) 3.5". The older smaller drives I retire to backplane enclosures for direct 1:1 backup. I can't afford monetarily, drive letter, or physical mounting a parity drive so 1:1 has always worked best for me. They hold 18 backup drives. This 18 total equals the size of the 11 local drives.


Now that UHD rips require twice the size of HD rips (given you opt for the highest quality rips common around 80GB per title and some multi disc titles such as Blue Planet II (2017) at 150GB or GOT Season 1 at 350GB) even a 12TB HDD fills quickly when you are an avid enthusiast.


Until 12TB HDD's come way down in price, I'll need to work with what I have, a conglomeration of 8TB to 500GB drives. Of the 29 drives in use, the spare room I have for local and backup will exhaust in about 15 more rips or so. Luckily, I have other spare shelved HDD's that are 1TB and 2TB retired long ago. Recently I shucked them back into enclosures having saved them for a total of 8 giving me another 12TB to work with. Swapping drives around gives me an additional 6TB local and another 6TB for backup. My drives are a range of Toshiba, WD, Seagate, etc. 2.5" and 3.5". Most of the external enclosures are Seagate. Even 2.5" Toshiba laptop drives were placed in Seagate 3.5" enclosures with no problems.


I stacked the enclosures one on top of another next to the backplanes since all of these new external USB's are backup only. I have a lot of 3.0 USB ports and plugged in each one rather than a USB port multiplier. I plugged all the power supplies into common 6 plug surge protectors daisy chaining them because the power supplies are large and only accommodate 3 on each. It's what I had laying around not wanting to purchase anything better. I then plugged in the last of the daisy chained surge protectors into a X-10 appliance module and plugged it into the wall so I can control it on/off as I do the other 3 backplanes. This allows my 26 backup drives to easily power up and down with the flip of a switch. I quickly found out surge protectors don't like to be daisy chained taking an off/on mind of its own. I put a nightlight bulb in one of the plugs to cure it. I should add I also dynamically joined the 8 new external drives together because drive letters are exhausted as are some of the backplane backup other drives. I can easily add another drive in the future. If a drive fails, I lose all data on that drive letter but I don't mind.


I write this to encourage you to save your shucked enclosures even though you think you'll never need them. Also, WD is not the only game in town nor are red/white drives. Most of my drives are Seagate greens. I've never had a failure except for a handful of 3TB's a decade ago. That problem was resolved once 5TB hit the scene. Fwiw, 350GB UHD HDR iso titles via USB 2.0 or 3.0 play butter smooth for those that blame poor bandwidth of less expensive green external drives for their failures. My Toshiba 2.5" 500GB 2 decade old laptop drive in a 3.5" 5TB Seagate enclosure plays perfectly in a USB 2.0 port fwiw.
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post #2746 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 11:28 AM
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I like to repurpose healthy 500G range hard drives to back up ssd's in computers. Back up and unplug. They really don't command much on the used market, but it's really easy to
get $10-15 for them on the local resale market.
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post #2747 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
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Have you mastered the art of not destroying the external case? (I might be hopeless.....)
I gave up on that years ago. Seagate was the first to start using those clips that are impossible to leave untouched. Then WD started using them as well. I just use my pocket knife and slice through the edge seam and can crack open a case in 5 seconds flat.
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post #2748 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 01:42 PM
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Good to know....

I officially give up also.
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post #2749 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 02:35 PM
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Use a guitar pick and/or an old credit card. Leaves the clips in perfect condition. Takes all of 30 secs.
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GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
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Zero luck with a credit card. Never tried guitar pick so I will give that a try.
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post #2751 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killroy View Post
I gave up on that years ago. Seagate was the first to start using those clips that are impossible to leave untouched. Then WD started using them as well. I just use my pocket knife and slice through the edge seam and can crack open a case in 5 seconds flat.


Huh? The WD cases are super simple to open without breaking anything or leaving any markings.

Video I made.

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post #2752 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 03:27 PM
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Huh? The WD cases are super simple to open without breaking anything or leaving any markings.

Video I made.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9znvhrBKHOs
I tried your method once or twice and I always broke at least one clip. I have one WD sitting in a box right now so when it is time for her to get shucked I will try it again.

But, I am more a brute force kinda guy so that may be why I always fail....lol
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post #2753 of 3072 Old 05-19-2019, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post

Through the years I've bought new external drives and shucked them as my collection grows. I take the newer larger drives and mount them local inside my Silverstone HTPC. I've modded it to comfortably mount (11) 3.5". The older smaller drives I retire to backplane enclosures for direct 1:1 backup. I can't afford monetarily, drive letter, or physical mounting a parity drive so 1:1 has always worked best for me. They hold 18 backup drives. This 18 total equals the size of the 11 local drives.

Any way I could get a picture of this? Am having trouble visualizing/understanding how you would do this?
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post #2754 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 12:23 PM
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My Silverstone Case Mod

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestrosc View Post
Any way I could get a picture of this? Am having trouble visualizing/understanding how you would do this?
Not sure what you want to see but here's a peek inside my modded Silverstone HTPC...


I had this plastic film laying around. Not sure what it is? I cut out a fitted box pattern and heated it to 180 degrees in my oven and folded it.



I cut out the bottom of the case and installed a low RPM fan that is silent. Cut a hole in the box I made so that intake air (coolest from the bottom) can stream over the drives. I also added taller feet to the case so that airflow isn't obstructed. The box will exhaust into the rest of the case using the holes between drives and they are small to create even distribution. The PSU also has a large slow spinning fan that is silent. It is the soul exhaust for the case. Once the cover is in place, the side where the GPU is located has vent holes for its intake and its fans exhaust itself out the rear.









Here you can see the GPU has its own exhaust. Also I removed the factory exhaust fans and covered the holes with tape. Beautiful I know... Those fans were noisy to say the least. They also disrupted air flow to the CPU and PSU fans creating unwanted eddies in the greater scheme of things. Here also are the USB ports I use for the external drives.



Here are a couple simple metal brackets I made to mount drives with just enough room between them to allow sufficient air flow once fitted inside the cooling box.



Here are the drives installed. You can see the cables go through the box and into the drives leaving the holes at the top between drives to allow airflow to escape and meander throughout the rest of the components and finally exhaust out the PSU. Fwiw, these MB's come with that big ol' heat sink for the north and south bridges.





Here is the HTPC placed under my desk and on top of my 15" subwoofer. Yes, on top of the sub. No, the vibration has never harmed a drive or any other component after 15 years being there and yes I do thump chest pounding base and very loud at times. You can also see my backup. 3 Sans Digital enclosures totaling 18 HDD's and another 8 external USB enclosures with mix and match drives of all sizes and brands. This is where I retire drives.



And this is what 37 hard drives looks like in Windows. Many of them are dynamically joined because there is only 26 letters in the alphabet and one of them is assigned for a virtual rom drive A:. That is required for the virtual mounting .bats I created when using the home theatre described in my guide. All but 11 are backup and those are always off (except when actually backing up) so drive letters are free when using PowerDVD and/or DVDFab Media Player which require there own drive letters to virtual mount as well as any USB sticks etc.



As you can see, I'll be out of storage room soon. I will be purchasing a couple 12TB drives replacing 2 of the smallest drives in this abomination of mine. I should note, not all of this is for home theatre. This HTPC is multipurpose. I use it store many other things for my businesses and personal use too. As you can see, this puppy has been around the block a few times. I think I've had it for about 15 years now. Let me know what you think...

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W

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post #2755 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Not sure what you want to see but here's a peek inside my modded Silverstone HTPC...


I had this plastic film laying around. Not sure what it is? I cut out a fitted box pattern and heated it to 180 degrees in my oven and shaped it.



I cut out the bottom of the case and installed a low RPM fan that is silent. Cut a hole in the box I made so that intake air (coolest from the bottom) can stream over the drives. I also added taller feet to the case so that airflow isn't obstructed. The box will exhaust into the rest of the case using the holes between drives and they are small to create even distribution. The PSU also has a large slow spinning fan that is silent. It is the sole exhaust for the case. Once the cover is in place, the side where the GPU is located has vent holes for its intake and its fans exhaust itself out the rear.





https://i.imgur.com/BJqdKPH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ejXMsc8.jpg

Here you can see the GPU has its own exhaust. Also I removed the factory exhaust fans and covered the holes with tape. Beautiful I know... Those fans were noisy to say the least. They also disrupted air flow to the CPU and PSU fans creating unwanted eddies in the greater scheme of things. Here also are the USB ports I use for the external drives.



Here are a couple simple metal brackets I made to mount drives with just enough room between them to allow sufficient air flow once fitted inside the cooling box.



Here are the drives installed. You can see the cables go through the box and into the drives leaving the holes at the top between drives to allow airflow to escape and meander throughout the rest of the components and finally exhaust out the PSU. Fwiw, these MB's come with that big ol' heat sink for the north and south bridges.





Here is the HTPC placed under my desk and on top of my 15" subwoofer. Yes, on top of the sub. No, the vibration has never harmed a drive or any other component after 15 years being there and yes I do thump chest pounding base and very loud at times. You can also see my backup. 3 Sans Digital enclosures totaling 18 HDD's and another 8 external USB enclosures with mix and match drives of all sizes and brands. This is where I retire drives.



And this is what 37 hard drives looks like in Windows. Many of them are dynamically joined because there is only 26 letters in the alphabet and one of them is assigned for a virtual rom drive (A. That is required for the virtual mounting .bats I created when using the home theatre described in my guide. All but 11 are backup and those are always off (except when actually backing up) so drive letters are free when using PowerDVD and/or DVDFab Media Player which require there own drive letters to virtual mount as well as any USB sticks etc.



As you can see, I'll be out of storage room soon. I will be purchasing a couple 12TB drives replacing 2 of the smallest drives in this abomination of mine. I should note, not all of this is for home theatre. This HTPC is multipurpose. I use it store many other things for my businesses and personal use too. As you can see, this puppy has been around the block a few times. I think I've had it for about 15 years now...
Wow! that is nuts! Super impressive, I am nowhere needing something like this yet lol, but still cool to see. I guess I should get more creative with fitting HDD's into the case.
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post #2756 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 12:42 PM
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Not sure what you want to see but here's a peek inside my modded Silverstone HTPC...

Are those drives getting any direct air flow? What temp do they run at.

Also have you ever looked at something like drivepool? You seem like you know what your doing with your setup. But I have really liked it after having a bunch of drive letters like you (not nearly as many).

It pools multiple drives together so windows treats them like one drive. But the data is stored as normal across all the drives, so one can be pulled with no issues to the pool.
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post #2757 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 01:02 PM
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you know you can mount drives as folders just like in linux?
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post #2758 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 01:26 PM
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The drives inside the box run at 25c dependent on ambient temp which is fairly stable.
Not sure what drivepool is but I've used mklink in the past. I'll google up drivepool and check it out when I get a chance.
I'll look into mounting drives as folders too unless it's something like what Windows provides as empty ntfs something or other in management I've noticed.
Anything additional you'd provide is welcomed...
Thanks for the tips.

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post #2759 of 3072 Old 05-20-2019, 01:27 PM
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I do a bit of out of the box thinking also. But I sell off drives to retire them, and reinvest in bigger drives.

Two Antec 1200 V3 cases, gives me two motherboard mounts and 24 bays. A beat up 1200 via eBay surrender spare fans and bays. I see where they could be side by side, as one pc, hinged. Might be 21 hard drives, one 4K optical and two ripping drives. Heck, if I can find another $100 1200 case, why not three wide?

And now that I see that, maybe I should have pulled that beat up case's hard drive rails and drilled them out, for a second row drives in one case. So much for worrying about vibration... But I just don't see me ever sitting a pc on one of my subs.

And yet, I have such a picture of an old school htpc case, on an old school big ass sub, with 15" drivers, no less.... Although the case was empty at the time.

I do like my old htpc cases as there's a Digitalis Vision II that has seen many upgrades, and another case that I forget what make it is. I even found some other ideas in an old folder looking for my htpc on sub pic.
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post #2760 of 3072 Old 05-21-2019, 01:07 AM
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And this is what 37 hard drives looks like in Windows.
Looks really impressing, congrats! Aren't they noisy altogether?
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I will be purchasing a couple 12TB drives replacing 2 of the smallest drives in this abomination of mine.
Let us know which one you will pick

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