Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 96 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2851 of 3082 Old 06-12-2019, 03:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Sometimes a reboot of the operating system can bring back a missing display mode. Did you check to see if it is listed in the GPU control panel?

If you leave out the 2160p25 and keep the 2160p50, it should select the p50 display mode and duplicate the frame rate to 50 Hz.
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post #2852 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I had a similar problem playing 4K HDR 60FPS and it was due to the PCI Express bus being stuck at x4, where it should be at x16. So bandwith problem.
Turned out the CPU was causing it.
GPU Z displays the PCI Express Bus multiplier. You can press the question mark next to the Bus and GPU Z will run a small test which will max it out (some cards lower it to x4 during idle). It should go up to x16 immediately.
Thanks, but it's not that, it stays in both modes at: PCIex16 3.0 @ x16 3.0 (it says "@ x16 1.1" in idle)

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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
just to make that obsoletely clear i'm not saying that copyback has the same speed but it is clearly in the real not significant on performance cards the numbers are deceiving. uploading "textures" is simply something GPU are good at and they learned downloading to over the past 10 years. d3d11 makes a more notable difference for iGPU which still can do the copyback operation and they have about 5 or more % of the performance of an 1060.
I understand what you say, I only tell you what I see here.
Here's another test:
- 4GB/55 min file (10.2Mbps video) 24p 4K SDR (not even 60p)
- played back on 1080p monitor in window mode (not fullscreen to give the GPU more work) (smoothmotion is not enabled)
-- scaled to: 1627x915 (the saved OSD image doesn't show this for whatever reason)
- gpu usage results: dxva2-cp ~87% ; d3d11 ~82%
-- you can see this on both graphs: left from the center is dxva2-cp, right is d3d11

So, the difference is around 5% (due to less bandwidth), but as you said, it's still a big diff.

Now, I'm curious your graphs, guys
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post #2853 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 10:42 AM
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Hi everyone, I need advice to upgrade my PC.
this is my configuration:
intel core i5 7600k, Asus z270f gaming motherboard, Ram Corsair CMK16GX4M2B3000C15 Vengeance LPX 16GB @ 3000MHZ, Corsair ax860i, Corsair h115i, Nvidia gtx770 GPU.
Obviously I have to change the video card, in the future I'm going to buy an oled sony (65af9), and I'd like to use Madvr for the 4k. Which video card do you recommend? Is the rest of the components ok or is there anything else to change? Thanks for the answers
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post #2854 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 11:08 AM
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The rest are ok, buy a used pascal card (>=1060 6GB).

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post #2855 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
The rest are ok, buy a used pascal card (>=1060 6GB).
gtx 2070 is too much?
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post #2856 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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It is probably unnecessary with an AF9 4K OLED TV.
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post #2857 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
It is probably unnecessary with an AF9 4K OLED TV.
Ok, thanks a lot for the answers
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post #2858 of 3082 Old 06-13-2019, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1269 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
The rest are ok, buy a used pascal card (>=1060 6GB).
gtx 2070 is too much?
If you can find it, a used gtx1070 should be perfect for what you need
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post #2859 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Crenshaw View Post
Hi Onkyoman,

I like your builds for the HTPC builds I have allot of MKV files that are 4k uhd hdr and dolby atmos and truehd. I just bought a panasonic ub820 thinking that it would play my files but it just plays the video not the sound I was to told panasonic block that so I want to build a unit. Will this unit out of your builds show better than the panasonic ub820 or the Oppo 203. I want to purchase these parts ASAP. But I need to know spending the money will i be happy. I was trying to wait to see what nvidia sheild new unit will come out I would get the sheild pro but it does not do dolby vision. Please respond as I need to know. I just build my theater room and this is my last project. Can you build for me or we can do a webex and you can shawdow me how too.

Thanks,

John
Hi John...try going into setup and setting the output to PCM, should work.

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post #2860 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaus.S View Post
Hi,

I am having a problem with movies/serie with 25.000 fps (like blue planet 2). Sometimes it shows them in 50.00 and everything works. But often there is not comming a picture on the screen.

Setup HTPC > Marantz 8802a > JVC X7500 If I look under display modes in madvr the 1080p 25.00 mode is missing. All other modes are there. I upscaling to 2160p so when that mode is there I can't see that should be the problem?

The funny thing is that if I run my htpc to a pc screen directly there is no missing mode and all seems to work.

So what is wrong here?
Not the same but on my NVCP (GTX 1060>HDMI>PJ) certain refresh rates disappear from 1920x1080p and end up in a separate resolution 1920x1080i, specifically 25 and 30Hz.

If I add 1080p25 in madvr it jumps to 1080 25. In NVCP though it tells me it's in the 1080i25 mode. The video played is not interlaced, it's progressive.

Also to avoid stutter, (for Nvidia) Power Management Mode should be Prefer maximum performance in Manage 3D settings in NVCP.

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post #2861 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
It is probably unnecessary with an AF9 4K OLED TV.
Why? We need more detail on this advice.
I saw on the first page you said it must be GTX 1070 / GTX 1070 Ti to run HDR Tone Mapping.
What are differences between GTX 1060 6GB and GTX 1070 on HDR Tone Mapping?
Furthermore, from what I know, people recently and commonly confuse HDR and tone mapping. While these two techniques are definitely related, they aren’t the same thing.
Thanks.
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post #2862 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Not the same but on my NVCP (GTX 1060>HDMI>PJ) certain refresh rates disappear from 1920x1080p and end up in a separate resolution 1920x1080i, specifically 25 and 30Hz.

If I add 1080p25 in madvr it jumps to 1080 25. In NVCP though it tells me it's in the 1080i25 mode. The video played is not interlaced, it's progressive.

Also to avoid stutter, (for Nvidia) Power Management Mode should be Prefer maximum performance in Manage 3D settings in NVCP.
1080p25 is not an spec for BD that's why it will fallback to 1080i25 (which should never be used). 1080p50 should be present in TVs sold in EU.
UHD BD has now a 25p spec so TV should support it.

@Elpee
tone mapping is still changing so it is very hard to predict what you need.

depending on what you want to do no hardware is fast enough but you have to know what you want to do. some even go as far and say 1080 ti is the minimum.
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post #2863 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elpee View Post
Why? We need more detail on this advice.
I saw on the first page you said it must be GTX 1070 / GTX 1070 Ti to run HDR Tone Mapping.
What are differences between GTX 1060 6GB and GTX 1070 on HDR Tone Mapping?
Furthermore, from what I know, people recently and commonly confuse HDR and tone mapping. While these two techniques are definitely related, they aren’t the same thing.
Thanks.
You would first have to decide if you intend to use madVR's tone mapping with a new OLED. For a reasonably bright TV, the tone mapping is only useful for compressing the specular highlights in titles that are very bright (well above 1,000 nits). The OLED in question (Sony A9F) is among the best in the business at tone mapping HDR10 content, so that should be considered. It is a lot of money for what could be a minor benefit or no benefit at all. I'm not even sure how much testing has gone into the HDR tone mapping for true HDR TVs. Almost all testing has been done with SDR output for low light output projectors.

Sony A9F OLED Crowned ‘King of TV’ at 2018 Shootout
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post #2864 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
1080p25 is not an spec for BD that's why it will fallback to 1080i25 (which should never be used). 1080p50 should be present in TVs sold in EU.
UHD BD has now a 25p spec so TV should support it.

@Elpee
tone mapping is still changing so it is very hard to predict what you need.

depending on what you want to do no hardware is fast enough but you have to know what you want to do. some even go as far and say 1080 ti is the minimum.
So what if I have a 25Hz progressive video file?
The projector is capable of [email protected], how do I select that?

I can't see any visual difference between [email protected] and [email protected] Could it be an error in the Nvidia software?
From the projector side how do I find out if it's an P or an i image?

LE: I checked the supported resolutions and the only i formats supported are [email protected] and [email protected]
So how can the PJ jump to [email protected] when it's not supported?

LE2: I created a custom progressive resolution [email protected] Tested ok.
The 25Hz option from the 1080i section disappeared.
Sometimes the other frequency in the 1080i panel changes between 29 and 30Hz.
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post #2865 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 09:28 AM
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you can put on youtube what ever you want stremaing page can do that too 18 FPS it's on youtube...
but that doesn't hcange that 25p is not part of the BD spec.

1080i25 and 1080i50 are the "same" 1080i25 stand for 25 frame and 1080i50 stand for 50 fields. it's just as it is noone ever specified if you have to list the number of fields or the number of frames so it is used differently all the time and both are shorten to FPS...

if you send an I signal the TV has to deinterlace it and you don't want that because the is nothing to deinterlace.

the obvious solution is clearly to just use 1080p50.
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post #2866 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you can put on youtube what ever you want stremaing page can do that too 18 FPS it's on youtube...
but that doesn't hcange that 25p is not part of the BD spec.

1080i25 and 1080i50 are the "same" 1080i25 stand for 25 frame and 1080i50 stand for 50 fields. it's just as it is noone ever specified if you have to list the number of fields or the number of frames so it is used differently all the time and both are shorten to FPS...

if you send an I signal the TV has to deinterlace it and you don't want that because the is nothing to deinterlace.

the obvious solution is clearly to just use 1080p50.
What does it matter if 25p is not part of the BD specification?

Shouldn't a progressive file with 25 FPS be played at 25Hz?
The projector claims to have this mode available.

Reason I want to keep it at 25Hz is the render time at 25Hz needs to be under 40ms, while at 50Hz is 20ms.
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post #2867 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 09:56 AM
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I purchased the Asus strix 1060 6gb, also as a matter of current budget, I will later consider whether to switch to a higher GPU. I currently have a sony 49 "8 series 4k from 2014, could you recommend the settings of the 1060 with madvr?
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post #2868 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
What does it matter if 25p is not part of the BD specification?
if it is not part of a major spec why should it be support by driver Tv producer and others?
Quote:
Shouldn't a progressive file with 25 FPS be played at 25Hz?
The projector claims to have this mode available.
50 hz has the same result.
Quote:
Reason I want to keep it at 25Hz is the render time at 25Hz needs to be under 40ms, while at 50Hz is 20ms.
that'S not how this works if i watch an 24 hz file on an 144 HZ i don't need rendertimes below 8 ms. you still just need to be below 40.
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post #2869 of 3082 Old 06-14-2019, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marco1269 View Post
I purchased the Asus strix 1060 6gb, also as a matter of current budget, I will later consider whether to switch to a higher GPU. I currently have a sony 49 "8 series 4k from 2014, could you recommend the settings of the 1060 with madvr?
Try browsing the last section of the madVR guide linked at the top of post #1 .
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post #2870 of 3082 Old 06-15-2019, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Onkyoman View Post
I don't know what you are trying to say. Can you post an image of the madVR OSD (Ctrl + J) while playing a file?
Sorry just getting back to this

So My PC and the projector report 4096x2160 resolution. but when I bring up madvr under identification for the exact projector it is reporting 3840x2160. Weird right?

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post #2871 of 3082 Old 06-17-2019, 02:47 AM
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Originally Posted by marco1269 View Post
I currently have a sony 49 "8 series 4k from 2014, could you recommend the settings of the 1060 with madvr?
Is this a HDR capable display? If so, you can use HDR passthrough in madVR, and you won't need to get a new card.

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I purchased the Asus strix 1060 6gb, also as a matter of current budget, I will later consider whether to switch to a higher GPU.
Take a look at this post.
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post #2872 of 3082 Old 06-17-2019, 03:18 AM
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Thanks to all for the answers
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Thanks to all for the answers
While it's gracious to express your gratitude in a post like this, and it's appreciated, on forums such as this it's much more appropriate and polite to click the "Like" link on the bottom right-hand corner of the posts that you find have satisfactorily answered your questions.
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post #2874 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 04:40 AM
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Couple of questions:

1. Which NVIDIA driver for the 1080 GPU is recommended to avoid stutter?

2. Why is it recommended to set in NVIDIA "How do you make color adjustments/With the NVIDIA settings/ RGB full (0-255), rather than leaving this to 'with the video player settings' then make these adjustments in madVR/properties/the display expects the following RGB output levels/PC levels (0-255)?
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post #2875 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Couple of questions:

1. Which NVIDIA driver for the 1080 GPU is recommended to avoid stutter?

2. Why is it recommended to set in NVIDIA "How do you make color adjustments/With the NVIDIA settings/ RGB full (0-255), rather than leaving this to 'with the video player settings' then make these adjustments in madVR/properties/the display expects the following RGB output levels/PC levels (0-255)?
1. I have zero issues with driver version 390.65. I run this because it allows freestyle on any game and it just so happens to run video perfectly as well.

2. I personally use NVIDIA settings, rgb, full (0-255) and make sure my projector is set to auto (or full), and madVR is set to 0-255.
I know limited-->full-->limited is often recommended. That's limited in nvidia control panel, full in madvr, limited or auto in display. But that's too much hassle for me as I use a lot of desktop and games. Here's a good read on this:
https://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space

This is a good read also:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1709584
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post #2876 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 06:29 AM
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1. I have zero issues with driver version 390.65.
This driver doesn't send through the HDR metadata, if that's important for you. v385.28 does.
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post #2877 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
2. I personally use NVIDIA settings, rgb, full (0-255) and make sure my projector is set to auto (or full), and madVR is set to 0-255.
I know limited-->full-->limited is often recommended. That's limited in nvidia control panel, full in madvr, limited or auto in display. But that's too much hassle for me as I use a lot of desktop and games. Here's a good read on this:
https://kodi.wiki/view/Video_levels_and_color_space
you can do YCbCr to full range RGB without scaling this is just incorrect data (as far as i know this was already part of official spec for YCbCr -> conversations)so there scaling argument is not there and you end up with float point number anyway so you need high bit deep anyway...

BTW if you are outputting RGB it can be mathematical proven that full range is always superior.

you can find a sorter good news about this here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post23274961
Quote:
There are 3 possible HTPC level configurations, when using madVR:

(1) Display wants 0-255. GPU and madVR are consequently also both set to 0-255.

This is the most recommended setup because it doesn't (shouldn't) have any banding problems, and still has all video, desktop and games with correct black/white levels. In this case test patterns need to have black at 0,0,0, obviously.

(2) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 16-235. madVR has to be set to 0-255.

This is not recommended, because the GPU stretches the madVR output, probably in 8bit without dithering, so banding could be introduced. However, this is not a big problem for ArgyllCMS. Argyll still needs to create test patterns with black at 0,0,0. The GPU will then stretch the test patterns from 0-255 to 16-235, so the display will get 16,16,16, although Argyll rendered 0,0,0. So the levels are correct.

(3) Display wants 16-235. GPU is set to 0-255. madVR is set to 16-235.

...
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post #2878 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Here are my settings using the same (underclocked) GPU:
- d3d11 mode in LAV video (madvr image processing is much faster compared to the other modes)
- hdr passthrough to 4k hdr display
- in nVidia panel
-- power management set to "Adaptive"
-- output: RGB, FULL, 12bit
Hi.

I see you've set Nvidia's 'power management' to "Adaptive". Is this for both "Global" and "Program" settings?
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post #2879 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 01:31 PM
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4K HDR breaks madVR on my win7 HTPC

Hi
I have serious problems with 4K HDR pass through on my WIN7 64pro HTPC sourcing a 4K LG OLED; on my Win 10 HTPC sourcing my 4K projector HDR pass though works fine...

I have had MadVR running for half a year upscaling 720P and 1080P to my 4K LG OLED, with no problems. I recently started to play Blu-ray UHD as well, after buying a UHD friendly drive.
They play fine on both HTPCs, but when I pause or skip (30 sec, 1 min etc), the win7 HTPC breaks down: the movie turns 95 % white. The black cinemascope bars remain black. It continues to play the movie with sound and all. It does not happen every time I skip or pause in all movies; some more than others. However, I can make them all "break" by skipping long enough. When I STOP playback of the movie, 50-70 % of the time, Windows resizes from 3840 x 2160 to 600 x 600 and displays a "madVR has stopped working" box.

I have the exactly same settings in madVR on the two HTPCs, except I have full screen exclusive mode checked on the Win7 HTPC and not on the Win 10. That is the only difference.
They have the exact same settings in Nvidia control panel: 23hz: RGB, 12 bit, full; 50 hz: RGB, 8 bit, full. Desktop is set to 23 hz to avoid the Nvidia 12 bit reset bug.
HOWEVER; the Nvidia driver is not the same. My win7 has a GTX 1050 card and uses 385.28, but my win10 HTPC has a RTX 2060 card and needs min. 411.63 (I use 417.71 currently, will try 430.53 soon iot get correct HDR meta data pass through)

WHAT I HAVE TRIED SO FAR:
1) Tested the Win10 HTPC on the OLED TV - It works there as well...
2) Changed the win7 HTPC settings to 8 bit in NCP as well as madVR, i.e. unchecked exclussive full screen mode, changed display settings to 8 bit not 10 or higher
3) Keeping NCP set to 12 bit and unchecking full screen exclusive mode
4) Keeping NCP set to 12 bit, unchecking full screen exclusive mode and checked the windowed mode just above
5) Changed madVR from pass through to tonemap using pixelshading. Aside form the GTX 1050 not being fast enough for that, it actually also crashed when stop or skip. Except not with the whiteout, just with the resize to 800 x 600 and madVR "stopped working" message. I will eventually try this on my win10 / RTX2060 HTPC and projector combo, but I prefer pass through for the OLED.
6) a lot more....

Bonus info: I use Mediaportal 1.22 on both machines, along with madVR. LAV filter is 0.74.1, using DXVA copy back.

I am currentlu considering:
A) updating Nvidia driver on the win7 HTPC to the same driver as on the win10 HTPC (417.71)
B) Doing a clean win10 install on the win7 HTPC...
C) Hanging myself in a garden three

Any one had similar issues or heard of some who had?
Help appriciated!! ;-)
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post #2880 of 3082 Old 06-19-2019, 02:28 PM
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Jacob, try this:
Go into the Video LAV filter and select "D 3D 11" under "Hardware Decoder To Use".


Under "Hardware Device To Use" select you video card.


It says to use automatic, but for what ever reason, this does not work on my system, so I select my video card in the drop down box.

Under the information window during play, it shows that D 3D 11 is decoding so it is working.


The problem with mine, that I haven't figured out, is that if I set it to automatic, when I play an UHD movie and jump ahead, the video freezes while the audio keeps going.
The video gets stuck in this micro loop _ if you can understand that.
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