Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 97 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2881 of 3051 Old 06-19-2019, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I would guess Windows 7 is the culprit because Windows 10 worked when tested. Windows 8.1 could be even more stable.
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post #2882 of 3051 Old 06-19-2019, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Hi.

I see you've set Nvidia's 'power management' to "Adaptive". Is this for both "Global" and "Program" settings?
Global settings carry over to program settings. You can add a player(s) in program settings and change settings for each player you add individually and separately from what you edited in global settings if you wish. That said, you most likely want to use the same global settings for all players and not do anything different individually. On the other hand, perhaps you want vsync set to on for one player and set to auto for another. This is what program settings is for.
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post #2883 of 3051 Old 06-19-2019, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
Jacob, try this:
Go into the Video LAV filter and select "D 3D 11" under "Hardware Decoder To Use".


Under "Hardware Device To Use" select you video card.


It says to use automatic, but for what ever reason, this does not work on my system, so I select my video card in the drop down box.

Under the information window during play, it shows that D 3D 11 is decoding so it is working.


The problem with mine, that I haven't figured out, is that if I set it to automatic, when I play an UHD movie and jump ahead, the video freezes while the audio keeps going.
The video gets stuck in this micro loop _ if you can understand that.
I Will try when I get home to night. However, I seem to recall that selecting D3D11in LAV is not available in Win7?

Will using D3D11 not use more GPU power than using DXVA copyback?
Which means less power left for madVR 1080p scaling ?
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post #2884 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 02:27 AM
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yes it is not available on win 7 and no it is supposed to be a little bit faster.
using d3d11 for presentation in madvr cost performance again only a very little.
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post #2885 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
try this:
Go into the Video LAV filter and select "D 3D 11" under "Hardware Decoder To Use".
Under "Hardware Device To Use" select you video card.

It says to use automatic, but for what ever reason, this does not work on my system, so I select my video card in the drop down box.
...
The problem with mine, that I haven't figured out, is that if I set it to automatic, when I play an UHD movie and jump ahead, the video freezes while the audio keeps going. The video gets stuck in this micro loop _ if you can understand that.
Note that when you select a card instead of Automatic then you no longer use "D3D11 Native" but "D3D11 Copyback"! (I know it's a bit confusing). That has similar performance as "DXVA2 Copyback", while "D3D11 Native" is faster with 4k content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
I Will try when I get home to night. However, I seem to recall that selecting D3D11in LAV is not available in Win7?
I think that's the case, but I'm not sure.
Try out with MPC-HC at first and see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
Will using D3D11 not use more GPU power than using DXVA copyback? Which means less power left for madVR 1080p scaling ?
D3D11 Native is the opposite with 4k content.

Edit: huhn was quicker

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post #2886 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 07:25 AM
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Any negative effects in using d3d11 with madVR and 4K HDR?

I recall reading a recommendation for using DXVA CB, but can’t say in what context...
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post #2887 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 07:29 AM
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And what about native vs CB?
I can’t recall why CB was recommended, but it was in this thread or doom9 madVR thread.
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post #2888 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 08:02 AM
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native is loosing some feature like deinterlacing and blackbar detection.

dxva copyback is supposed to be faster then d3d11 copyback that why recommended.

d3d11 still has potential to get faster (it is currently wasting over 1 ms just for an d3d11 -> d3d9 interop) and the missing features could be added too.
what so ever don't recommend something that will break potential playback if someone has to ask about decoder don't excepting them to be able to fix this on there own.
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post #2889 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 09:05 AM
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I have just had my projector calibrated this week so I am trying to get 4K HDR movies to play smoothly.

I am using W10. GPU GTX 1080. Nvidia v385.28

In Nvidia control panel I have only altered:
Manage 3D settings /Power management mode / Adaptive
Change resolution / Use Nvidia color settings / 'Output color format RGB' + 'Output device dynamic range Full'

I have been using two movies to test. The Avengers infinity war and Lucy. The Avengers plays OK, I can set madVR to NGU low for both Chroma and Image upscaling. If I use a higher algorithm than low I get a lot of frames dropped.

Lucy drop's frames from the word go. Even with madVR switched off I get picture judder/dropped frames.

(My GPU sits at around 40% with madVR on using NGU for both movies)

So am i missing something here in the chain. Is there a setting within Windows I need to set. Any ideas please?
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post #2890 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR1 View Post
try this:
Go into the Video LAV filter and select "D 3D 11" under "Hardware Decoder To Use".
Under "Hardware Device To Use" select you video card.

It says to use automatic, but for what ever reason, this does not work on my system, so I select my video card in the drop down box.
...
The problem with mine, that I haven't figured out, is that if I set it to automatic, when I play an UHD movie and jump ahead, the video freezes while the audio keeps going. The video gets stuck in this micro loop _ if you can understand that.
Note that when you select a card instead of Automatic then you no longer use "D3D11 Native" but "D3D11 Copyback"! (I know it's a bit confusing). That has similar performance as "DXVA2 Copyback", while "D3D11 Native" is faster with 4k content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
I Will try when I get home to night. However, I seem to recall that selecting D3D11in LAV is not available in Win7?
I think that's the case, but I'm not sure.
Try out with MPC-HC at first and see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob B View Post
Will using D3D11 not use more GPU power than using DXVA copyback? Which means less power left for madVR 1080p scaling ?
D3D11 Native is the opposite with 4k content.

Edit: huhn was quicker [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
Trying with MPC-HC require I install it. I will try, if you think it’s worth doing for trouble shooting.
But MP & madVR works on the win10 HTPC so it shouldn’t be MP that is the problem.

Should I try other options, before updating the OS. Like updating the nvidia driver?
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post #2891 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 11:57 AM
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So....
It turns out that I hadn’t tried all settings yet 😄
I switched of D3D11 presentation in madVR settings.
This did the trick as far as the white out issue. YES!!!! <3

However, madVR still crashes when I stop playback, and forced a windows reset to 800x600....

Any suggestions for that particular issue?
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post #2892 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
I have just had my projector calibrated this week so I am trying to get 4K HDR movies to play smoothly.

I am using W10. GPU GTX 1080. Nvidia v385.28

In Nvidia control panel I have only altered:
Manage 3D settings /Power management mode / Adaptive
Change resolution / Use Nvidia color settings / 'Output color format RGB' + 'Output device dynamic range Full'

I have been using two movies to test. The Avengers infinity war and Lucy. The Avengers plays OK, I can set madVR to NGU low for both Chroma and Image upscaling. If I use a higher algorithm than low I get a lot of frames dropped.

Lucy drop's frames from the word go. Even with madVR switched off I get picture judder/dropped frames.

(My GPU sits at around 40% with madVR on using NGU for both movies)

So am i missing something here in the chain. Is there a setting within Windows I need to set. Any ideas please?
is the second file VP9 profile 2?
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post #2893 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
is the second file VP9 profile 2?
Haven't a clue? My friend lent me some files to try. I wonder why 'scale' isn't matching the 'movie'. I mean, what do the numbers represent in 'scale' before 3840,1880? 1080p doesn't have these.
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post #2894 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Haven't a clue? My friend lent me some files to try. I wonder why 'scale' isn't matching the 'movie'. I mean, what do the numbers represent in 'scale' before 3840,1880? 1080p doesn't have these.
The scaling is just taking your source and outputting to the window or desktop size.

The movie file, itself, is sitting where? NAS? USB? It could be that you're not able to read the file fast enough to keep the queues full. For example, you cannot keep up with 4K video via 100mbit network or wifi.

Your 1080 should be able to keep up. Here's what I use for my 1080TI for upscaling settings.


and
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post #2895 of 3051 Old 06-20-2019, 11:51 PM
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Red face

Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The scaling is just taking your source and outputting to the window or desktop size.

The movie file, itself, is sitting where? NAS? USB? It could be that you're not able to read the file fast enough to keep the queues full. For example, you cannot keep up with 4K video via 100mbit network or wifi.
]
I see. This makes sense. (I have my files backed up on my office PC HHD’s. These I stream over my home network to my HTPC. I will put ‘Lucy’ dote on my HTPC SSD and give this a whirl. Thank you
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post #2896 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 01:22 AM
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Hey guys,


Will an i5 4590 and a gtx1070 be able to get the most out of madvr? Mainly for 4k HDR tonemapping on my JVC Projector


Cheers
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post #2897 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 01:24 AM
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Hey guys,


Will an i5 4590 and a gtx1070 be able to get the most out of madvr? Mainly for 4k HDR tonemapping on my JVC Projector


Cheers
No it won't be able to get the most out of madVR. Yes, it will be plenty for HDR dynamic tone mapping 4K content. You will have to turn down your 1080p to 4K upscaling settings quite a bit though.

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post #2898 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
No it won't be able to get the most out of madVR. Yes, it will be plenty for HDR dynamic tone mapping 4K content. You will have to turn down your 1080p to 4K upscaling settings quite a bit though.

Am i limited by the CPU here or the GPU?



At what point does investing in the cpu have diminishing returns?


i3 i5?
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post #2899 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 02:02 AM
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Am i limited by the CPU here or the GPU?



At what point does investing in the cpu have diminishing returns?


i3 i5?
GPU. First, nothing exists that can let you max out madVR. But my 1080TI gets pretty great upscaling settings for 24/25fps content. If it were all 30-60 FPS we would be screwed. MadVR has the best upscaling I’ve ever seen. It’s the main benefit of madVR to me. If you just care about tone mapping hdr then the 1070 is fine. But if you care also about high quality upscaling then you need more video card power.
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post #2900 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 03:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The scaling is just taking your source and outputting to the window or desktop size.

The movie file, itself, is sitting where? NAS? USB? It could be that you're not able to read the file fast enough to keep the queues full. For example, you cannot keep up with 4K video via 100mbit network or wifi.

Your 1080 should be able to keep up. Here's what I use for my 1080TI for upscaling settings.


and
Can NGU AA for chroma and NGU Sharp for luma be used at the same time?
I thought that they had to be the same, or it's possible because they are both NGU?

Also, why are you using Sharp for luma upscale instead of AA?
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post #2901 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 05:44 AM
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you can mix what ever you want.
generally speaking NGU aa is considered to be better for chroma while NGU sharp is considered to be better for luma/image scaling.
if you are upscaling luma which is always the case if you are upscaling images you shouldn't use different types of NGU or other advanced scaler for the chroma you can't do that with madVR anyway. the chroma scaling under chroma scaling has nothing to do with this it only scaling the chroma to match the luma from the source file which is in 99.9% of all cases 1/4 of the luma resolution.

so he is using the AVG recommended settings here.
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post #2902 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you can mix what ever you want.
generally speaking NGU aa is considered to be better for chroma while NGU sharp is considered to be better for luma/image scaling.

so he is using the AVG recommended settings here.
mightyhuhn can you explain please why NGU AA for chroma and NGU sharp for luma is considered the best way to go than say NGU AA for both which is the way I have mine setup?
What does AVG reccommended settings mean?

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post #2903 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
you can mix what ever you want.
generally speaking NGU aa is considered to be better for chroma while NGU sharp is considered to be better for luma/image scaling.
if you are upscaling luma which is always the case if you are upscaling images you shouldn't use different types of NGU or other advanced scaler for the chroma you can't do that with madVR anyway. the chroma scaling under chroma scaling has nothing to do with this it only scaling the chroma to match the luma from the source file which is in 99.9% of all cases 1/4 of the luma resolution.

so he is using the AVG recommended settings here.
So the image upscaling under scaling algorithms handles both luma and chroma?

I'm interested in the artifact removal>reduce compression artifacts>process chroma channels, too, which it only comes free if NGU sharp is used.
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post #2904 of 3051 Old 06-21-2019, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
mightyhuhn can you explain please why NGU AA for chroma and NGU sharp for luma is considered the best way to go than say NGU AA for both which is the way I have mine setup?
What does AVG reccommended settings mean?
Honestly, there is very little noticeable difference between the NGU algorithms when comparing them to each other.

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post #2905 of 3051 Old 06-22-2019, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post
mightyhuhn can you explain please why NGU AA for chroma and NGU sharp for luma is considered the best way to go than say NGU AA for both which is the way I have mine setup?
NGU sharp best with good sharp sources chroma is generally considered to be more soft so it can't work here as well that is as always not true for every case.
i personal would use NGU AA for both too so just stick to it.
Quote:
What does AVG reccommended settings mean?
AVG= average or in other words if you ask 1000 madVR user this combination would show up the most or most just recommend this.

@noob00224
Quote:
So the image upscaling under scaling algorithms handles both luma and chroma?
it's sadly more complicated but genereally yes for NGU a a faster version or bicubic 60 is used for super xbr the same algorithm is used for chroma and luma.
the chroma scales changes 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 nothing more.

Quote:
I'm interested in the artifact removal>reduce compression artifacts>process chroma channels, too, which it only comes free if NGU sharp is used.
RCA is used for lower quality source so shouldn't matter much anyway.
NGU sharp medium with RCA quality medium should be fine in term of speed.
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post #2906 of 3051 Old 06-22-2019, 03:23 AM
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Hi all, do you have settings for mdvr with lg 29um68 (21:9)? Gpu is Asus Strix Gtx 1060 6gb
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post #2907 of 3051 Old 06-22-2019, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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If you want a 21:9 image, try using zoom control with DXVA2 (copy-back) video decoding.

There a guide linked at the top of the first post that has instructions on how to use zoom control. There are also some settings at the end that can be tried.
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post #2908 of 3051 Old 06-22-2019, 07:31 PM
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I just started building a media PC mostly for MadVR.

Here is the configuration that I am trying to build. https://pcpartpicker.com/user/jbnpau...d/#view=383HBm

CPU: Intel - Core i5-9400F 2.9 GHz 6-Core Processor ($139.99)
Motherboard: MSI - Z370-A PRO ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (Purchased For $44.53)
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (Purchased For $30.99)
Memory: Crucial - Ballistix Sport LT 8 GB (1 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory (Purchased For $30.99)
Storage: Sabrent - 256 GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive (Purchased For $29.99)
Video Card: MSI - GeForce GTX 1660 Ti 6 GB VENTUS XS OC Video Card ($254.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair - 100R ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $38.99)
Power Supply: SeaSonic - FOCUS Plus Gold 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $650.45

Would you suggest any changes to the configuration?
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post #2909 of 3051 Old 06-23-2019, 04:01 AM
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nothing major but here i go:

a ram kit is recommended over 2 single dimms for the very small chance they don't like each other don't pay more for it.
the PSU is quite big i have a doubt your system will even need 300 watt so idle efficiency is very low.
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post #2910 of 3051 Old 06-23-2019, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
The scaling is just taking your source and outputting to the window or desktop size.

The movie file, itself, is sitting where? NAS? USB? It could be that you're not able to read the file fast enough to keep the queues full. For example, you cannot keep up with 4K video via 100mbit network or wifi.

Thank you so much for this advice markmon1. Got everything running through my gigabyte switch now. Movies running smoothly and also able to dig more out of my GPU. I can now stop pulling my hair out. Cheers.

This thread rocks
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