Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 3082 Old 06-24-2019, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
nothing major but here i go:

a ram kit is recommended over 2 single dimms for the very small chance they don't like each other don't pay more for it.
the PSU is quite big i have a doubt your system will even need 300 watt so idle efficiency is very low.
Thank you. This is my first PC build.
To be hones i was not even aware of this recommendation. For now I am optimistic, i will end up getting two sticks that likes each other.
I wanted some extra capacity for to PSU to accommodate any future upgrades.

I have now purchased all components except the GPU. Which one would you guys recommend out of the below options.

GTX 1660 ti
RTX 2060
Vega 56
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post #2912 of 3082 Old 06-24-2019, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
nothing major but here i go:

a ram kit is recommended over 2 single dimms for the very small chance they don't like each other don't pay more for it.
the PSU is quite big i have a doubt your system will even need 300 watt so idle efficiency is very low.
Thank you. This is my first PC build.
To be hones i was not even aware of this recommendation. For now I am optimistic, i will end up getting two sticks that likes each other.
I wanted some extra capacity for to PSU to accommodate any future upgrades.

I have now purchased all components except the GPU. Which one would you guys recommend out of the below options.

GTX 1660 ti
RTX 2060
Vega 56
The 2060 and it isn't even close
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post #2913 of 3082 Old 06-25-2019, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
Thank you. This is my first PC build.
To be hones i was not even aware of this recommendation. For now I am optimistic, i will end up getting two sticks that likes each other.
I wanted some extra capacity for to PSU to accommodate any future upgrades.

I have now purchased all components except the GPU. Which one would you guys recommend out of the below options.

GTX 1660 ti
RTX 2060
Vega 56
Agreed the 2060 is an excellent GPU, didn't read if you were doing any gaming but its basically a 1080 in that department.
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post #2914 of 3082 Old 06-25-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ddgdl View Post
The 2060
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Agreed the 2060 is an excellent GPU, didn't read if you were doing any gaming but its basically a 1080 in that department.
Thanks. Just placed an order for 2060.

I haven't played a game on the PC in a long time, but occasionally spends some time playing games on my Xbox. But i will definitely try out some games once my new PC is built, and who knows what ... i might spend the entire night gaming
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post #2915 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
Agreed the 2060 is an excellent GPU, didn't read if you were doing any gaming but its basically a 1080 in that department.
It's a 1070 like card instead (it has 1920 cuda cores, same as 1070).

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post #2916 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 06:14 AM
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pascal and turning cuda cores are very different so they should not be compared. i even go as far and say this is the biggest different in a long time.

turing has dedicated int32 cores and can do FP16 on whole different level.
while the FP32 performance is similar to a 1070 the 1070 get usually stomped into the ground the newer the game is. making this cards enemy the 1080 and they already beat it in multiply games.

if or when madVR will take advantage of this is still to be seen.
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post #2917 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
It's a 1070 like card instead (it has 1920 cuda cores, same as 1070).


I don't think so.
1440p=
20% better than 1070
2% less than a 1080

2160p=
20% better than 1070
3% less than 1080

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/z...660-ti/28.html

I know that's a 1660ti review just look at the charts. The difference between the two is of course the vram. But at 1440p for me it wasn't an issue with my 2060.


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post #2918 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
I don't think so.
1440p=
20% better than 1070
2% less than a 1080

2160p=
20% better than 1070
3% less than 1080

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/z...660-ti/28.html

I know that's a 1660ti review just look at the charts. The difference between the two is of course the vram. But at 1440p for me it wasn't an issue with my 2060.
Hmm, this one has different results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
if or when madVR will take advantage of this is still to be seen.
Yes, it would be interesting to see whether there's a difference at all using e.g. using NGU.

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post #2919 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Hmm, this one has different results.





Yes, it would be interesting to see whether there's a difference at all using e.g. using NGU.


I don't think that's a site that is usually trusted ironically. Or looked at as a top review site.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles_page...review,31.html


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post #2920 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 07:34 AM
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it just depends on the test application if the software is old a 2060 will perform similar to a 1070 by just using FP32 where they are pretty similar while newer applications can do mixed precision where turing is much much better.

example: fire strike is from 2015 nothing to wonder why the 2060 looks like a 1070.

it's not only nvidia that is changing there architecture vega and turing are 2x as fast at FP16 compared to FP32 while pascal and polaris archive only the same speed as FP32 if they do this by supporting FP16 natively or ignoring FP16 and using FP32 instead doesn't matter what matter is that they don't gain any speed.

is like creating a new CPU with an new instruction set/higher bit deep pipeline and not using that instruction set/pipeline even through a lot of silicon is used for that. zen 2 has 2 times the AVX2 speed compared to zen 1 by changing the pipe from 128 bit to 256 bit but it doesn't do anything when the application doesn't support/use AVX2.
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post #2921 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
it just depends on the test application if the software is old a 2060 will perform similar to a 1070 by just using FP32 where they are pretty similar while newer applications can do mixed precision where turing is much much better.



example: fire strike is from 2015 nothing to wonder why the 2060 looks like a 1070.



it's not only nvidia that is changing there architecture vega and turing are 2x as fast at FP16 compared to FP32 while pascal and polaris archive only the same speed as FP32 if they do this by supporting FP16 natively or ignoring FP16 and using FP32 instead doesn't matter what matter is that they don't gain any speed.



is like creating a new CPU with an new instruction set/higher bit deep pipeline and not using that instruction set/pipeline even through a lot of silicon is used for that. zen 2 has 2 times the AVX2 speed compared to zen 1 by changing the pipe from 128 bit to 256 bit but it doesn't do anything when the application doesn't support/use AVX2.


That's why I said it was about a 1080 in gaming. There's always going to be a game here and there that does better on certain cards. But if you look at the tpu review. With an average of around 10 modern games it's basically within margin of error of a 1080, and smoking a 1070. If anything it should be compared to a 1070ti i that regard.


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post #2922 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 12:39 PM
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wasn't aimed at you.
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post #2923 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 12:56 PM
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wasn't aimed at you.


Gotcha, my bad.


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post #2924 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
With an average of around 10 modern games it's basically within margin of error of a 1080, and smoking a 1070. If anything it should be compared to a 1070ti i that regard.
I think we should also factor in the possibility of future optimizations and newer games that makes use of the new cores etc. as well. This will close the gap(if there is any) between 1070Ti and 2060.

Specifically for MadVR, I read a post where Madshi suggested to buy a 2060 ( or 2070 or 2080) in case you are buying new. So may be we might even see some madVR improvements that makes use of 20 series features.
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post #2925 of 3082 Old 06-26-2019, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
I think we should also factor in the possibility of future optimizations and newer games that makes use of the new cores etc. as well. This will close the gap(if there is any) between 1070Ti and 2060.

Specifically for MadVR, I read a post where Madshi suggested to buy a 2060 ( or 2070 or 2080) in case you are buying new. So may be we might even see some madVR improvements that makes use of 20 series features.
True, or wait a week and get a 2060 Super, which will have 8gb of ram and be faster than the standard 2060.
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post #2926 of 3082 Old 06-27-2019, 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
if or when madVR will take advantage of this is still to be seen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
it would be interesting to see whether there's a difference at all using e.g. using NGU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post
That's why I said it was about a 1080 in gaming. There's always going to be a game here and there that does better on certain cards. But if you look at the tpu review. With an average of around 10 modern games it's basically within margin of error of a 1080, and smoking a 1070. If anything it should be compared to a 1070ti i that regard.
Does anybody have a GTX 1070 or 1080 card here? (not the TI)
If so, then you can test them with madvr together, @whiteboy714 .

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post #2927 of 3082 Old 06-27-2019, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by chros73 View Post
Does anybody have a GTX 1070 or 1080 card here? (not the TI)

If so, then you can test them with madvr together, @whiteboy714 .
All I have is a 1060 in my Htpc and don't even really use madvr. I have it setup but actually I don't use the HTPC. My shield is just too convenient and I can't really see the benefit of madvr without back and forth testing.

But I have seen plenty of people in here at they were using a 1080.




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post #2928 of 3082 Old 06-29-2019, 12:00 AM
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Just this last week I've started experiencing HDMI handshake issues with 4K movies. Press play and I either encounter a fuzzy, sometimes just a blank image. I'm playing everything through jRiver/madVR. If I switch off madVR everything is OK, the movies appear to play fine through jRiver. With madVR the problems start. To resolve this I've found I can either unplugged/plug the HDMI cable at the back of my projector or switch back and forth HDMI 1 & HDMI 2.

This first instance of this was after altering NVIDIA color setting. I have since uninstalled/reinstalled the NVIDIA GPU drivers. Uninstalled jRiver/madVR and run a fresh. Neither of these resolved the issue.

Any ideas?


Edit: It seems enabling D3D11 decoder fixes this. I was hoping to avoid using D3D11 as I pass through HDR to my projector. I then could have used the madVR zoom control for those IMAX aspect changing movies.

What do others do for IMAX aspect changing?. My projector can't blank the image. I guess I could use 'Handbrake' to crop/resize.
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post #2929 of 3082 Old 06-29-2019, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj1 View Post
Just this last week I've started experiencing HDMI handshake issues with 4K movies. Press play and I either encounter a fuzzy, sometimes just a blank image. I'm playing everything through jRiver/madVR. If I switch off madVR everything is OK, the movies appear to play fine through jRiver. With madVR the problems start. To resolve this I've found I can either unplugged/plug the HDMI cable at the back of my projector or switch back and forth HDMI 1 & HDMI 2.

This first instance of this was after altering NVIDIA color setting. I have since uninstalled/reinstalled the NVIDIA GPU drivers. Uninstalled jRiver/madVR and run a fresh. Neither of these resolved the issue.

Any ideas?


Edit: It seems enabling D3D11 decoder fixes this. I was hoping to avoid using D3D11 as I pass through HDR to my projector. I then could have used the madVR zoom control for those IMAX aspect changing movies.

What do others do for IMAX aspect changing?. My projector can't blank the image. I guess I could use 'Handbrake' to crop/resize.
Why would you pass through HDR to your projector? No projector can handle HDR as well as madVR handles it. I'd say your cable is probably not up to the task and something about the data output by madVR requires slightly more bandwidth for whatever reason.
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Why would you pass through HDR to your projector? No projector can handle HDR as well as madVR handles it. I'd say your cable is probably not up to the task and something about the data output by madVR requires slightly more bandwidth for whatever reason.
Only because I had it professionally calibrated last week, and he had set it up this way. I may well use madVR in the end. I really haven't had time to compare to be honest. I seem to have been hitting one problem after the next. HDMI makes sense. Thanks
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post #2931 of 3082 Old 06-29-2019, 05:59 PM
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Hey guys. I'm new to HTPCs but not new to building PCs. I have a small home theater room and lately I've been watching a lot of rips and mkvs and my Oppo 203 is giving me lots of issues with subtitles and stuff

I decided I need to get a HTPC with MadVR and that's it. I usually play rips from my own Blurays etc

What GPU should I go for? A 1080Ti or is that overkill? A 1080?

I was planning on a Ryzen 5 or 7 with a 1080Ti but I'm not sure if intel would be better

I have an LG OLED E6 but plan on switch to a projector in
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post #2932 of 3082 Old 06-29-2019, 06:44 PM
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Considering putting together a Legal UHD HTPC for UHD disk playback and well as MKV ripping. How does uses Any DVD HD for UHD disk playback in conjunction with MadVR.

These are the components I'm thinking of. Any suggestions, any input would be most appreciated.

Case - Silverstone GD-08
Power Supply Silversone SFX SX650G 650W
Motherboard - AS Rock Z390 m-ITX LGA 1151
SSD - Samsung 860 Evo 500GB 2.5" SATA III 6GB/s V-NAND SSD MZ-76E500BW
RAM - Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x 4GB or 8GB) DDR4 3200MHz Memory Black
CPU - i7 8700 3.2Ghz
GPU - ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Turbo 8GB
Keyboard - Logitec K830
Optical Drives - LG WH16NS60(Legal UHD Disk playback) ASUS BW-16D1HT-PRO(Ripping)

Movie storage external on a WD server.

Thanks much!

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post #2933 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
@noob00224

it's sadly more complicated but genereally yes for NGU a a faster version or bicubic 60 is used for super xbr the same algorithm is used for chroma and luma.
the chroma scales changes 4:2:0 to 4:4:4 nothing more.
So in madVR settings, if using NGU there are two places where chroma can be adjusted, the 'chroma upscaling' makes chroma equal the luma (4:2:0 to 4:4:4) with low/medium/high/very high options. And the chroma inside the NGU image upscaling with let madVR decide/normal/high/very high options as follows:
let madVR decide: Bicubic60 + AR unless using NGU very high. In that case, NGU medium is used.
normal: Bicubic60 + AR
high: NGU low
very high: NGU medium


Let say if I want to stick with NGU Sharp Very High for Luma upscaling but my GPU approaches its limit and I have to lower the chroma quality then which chroma upscale takes higher priority ? Or it's unimportant at all ? I notices that increasing the chroma inside NGU image upscaling takes more GPU resources.

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post #2934 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 01:03 AM
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Only because I had it professionally calibrated last week, and he had set it up this way. I may well use madVR in the end. I really haven't had time to compare to be honest. I seem to have been hitting one problem after the next. HDMI makes sense. Thanks
There's a night and day difference between the latest madVR with dynamic tone mapping and any calibrated static curves that could be loaded onto your projector. You have the best HDR tool in the world and you have it turned off and have it still passing HDR to a static curve. It's almost cringe worthy to hear
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post #2935 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDBaha View Post
Hey guys. I'm new to HTPCs but not new to building PCs. I have a small home theater room and lately I've been watching a lot of rips and mkvs and my Oppo 203 is giving me lots of issues with subtitles and stuff

I decided I need to get a HTPC with MadVR and that's it. I usually play rips from my own Blurays etc

What GPU should I go for? A 1080Ti or is that overkill? A 1080?

I was planning on a Ryzen 5 or 7 with a 1080Ti but I'm not sure if intel would be better

I have an LG OLED E6 but plan on switch to a projector in
I have a 1080TI and even with that, there are some upscaling options that are too tough for it. Nothing out is overkill right now. Go with the 1080ti. I'd suggest some intel CPU mainly because I think AMD chipsets (motherboards) suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highjinx View Post
Considering putting together a Legal UHD HTPC for UHD disk playback and well as MKV ripping. How does uses Any DVD HD for UHD disk playback in conjunction with MadVR.

These are the components I'm thinking of. Any suggestions, any input would be most appreciated.

Case - Silverstone GD-08
Power Supply Silversone SFX SX650G 650W
Motherboard - AS Rock Z390 m-ITX LGA 1151
SSD - Samsung 860 Evo 500GB 2.5" SATA III 6GB/s V-NAND SSD MZ-76E500BW
RAM - Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x 4GB or 8GB) DDR4 3200MHz Memory Black
CPU - i7 8700 3.2Ghz
GPU - ASUS GeForce RTX 2080 Turbo 8GB
Keyboard - Logitec K830
Optical Drives - LG WH16NS60(Legal UHD Disk playback) ASUS BW-16D1HT-PRO(Ripping)

Movie storage external on a WD server.

Thanks much!
This setup will work great, but is a bit spendy, and in my opinion you're wasting a lot of money on things you won't benefit in the HTPC world.
  • First, the board. Get a ~$100 board. There are cheap z390 and z360 chipsets. Those should all be fine for this.
  • Keyboard, try a K400 or K400plus. Not only is it about 1/2 to 1/3 the price, but the mouse button is far easier to use, and from my tests, the K400 plus actually works better than the K830.
  • Your CPU is way over kill but if you dont mind spending the extra money on it, it wont hurt anything.
  • 8GB ram is plenty.
  • You need a remote IR input device. I assume an flirc is the cheapest route.
If you're planning on also playing games, then your list might make a little more sense, although I also play games and 8gb ram is plenty for that, too. There's nothing I haven't been able to play maxed out at 4k/60, so far.

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #2936 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 01:17 AM
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There's a night and day difference between the latest madVR with dynamic tone mapping and any calibrated static curves that could be loaded onto your projector. You have the best HDR tool in the world and you have it turned off and have it still passing HDR to a static curve. It's almost cringe worthy to hear
I hear ya

Is this the latest build?


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...l#post57661012
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post #2937 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 01:22 AM
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I hear ya

Is this the latest build?


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-ho...l#post57661012
The builds are changing every few days as its in beta, but build 78 seems to be pretty stable and you have a whole bunch of screenshots on that link showing you how to configure build 78 so I'd just go with that one.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #2938 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 02:05 AM
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This setup will work great, but is a bit spendy, and in my opinion you're wasting a lot of money on things you won't benefit in the HTPC world.
  • First, the board. Get a ~$100 board. There are cheap z390 and z360 chipsets. Those should all be fine for this.
  • Keyboard, try a K400 or K400plus. Not only is it about 1/2 to 1/3 the price, but the mouse button is far easier to use, and from my tests, the K400 plus actually works better than the K830.
  • Your CPU is way over kill but if you dont mind spending the extra money on it, it wont hurt anything.
  • 8GB ram is plenty.
  • You need a remote IR input device. I assume an flirc is the cheapest route.
If you're planning on also playing games, then your list might make a little more sense, although I also play games and 8gb ram is plenty for that, too. There's nothing I haven't been able to play maxed out at 4k/60, so far.

Thanks markmon1, I'm learning things anew!

Since I require legal UHD it needs a Kaby or Coffee lake CPU, what do you recommend, CPU and MB? Also what does the flirc do that the keyboard doesn't.

One more question if you don't mind, how does one use AnyDVD HD to play back UHD disks via MadVR.

Thanks a lot!!!

May the success of a Nation be judged not by its collective wealth nor by its power, but by the contentment of its people.
Hiran J Wijeyesekera - 1985.
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post #2939 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 04:34 AM - Thread Starter
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So in madVR settings, if using NGU there are two places where chroma can be adjusted, the 'chroma upscaling' makes chroma equal the luma (4:2:0 to 4:4:4) with low/medium/high/very high options. And the chroma inside the NGU image upscaling with let madVR decide/normal/high/very high options as follows:
let madVR decide: Bicubic60 + AR unless using NGU very high. In that case, NGU medium is used.
normal: Bicubic60 + AR
high: NGU low
very high: NGU medium


Let say if I want to stick with NGU Sharp Very High for Luma upscaling but my GPU approaches its limit and I have to lower the chroma quality then which chroma upscale takes higher priority ? Or it's unimportant at all ? I notices that increasing the chroma inside NGU image upscaling takes more GPU resources.
I don't know if either chroma upscale should take priority, but the larger upscale between the two would be most impactful. If you chose very high luma upscaling, there is nothing wrong with choosing Bicubic60 + AR for chroma scaling. The very high setting will always make a greater difference.
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post #2940 of 3082 Old 06-30-2019, 04:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks markmon1, I'm learning things anew!

Since I require legal UHD it needs a Kaby or Coffee lake CPU, what do you recommend, CPU and MB? Also what does the flirc do that the keyboard doesn't.

One more question if you don't mind, how does one use AnyDVD HD to play back UHD disks via MadVR.

Thanks a lot!!!
I wouldn't bother with legal disc playback with PowerDVD. I've yet to hear of anyone getting this to work and you would have to run a separate HDMI cable from the iGPU if it ever was to work just to play a disc.

I know of at least two people using JRiver Media Center and AnyDVD HD to play directly from the disc. You will always get better mileage by ripping the disc before playback. Storage is an issue if you plan to keep the rip.
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Last edited by Onkyoman; 06-30-2019 at 04:41 AM.
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