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Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR

1M views 7K replies 529 participants last post by  mightyhuhn 
#1 · (Edited)
Last Updated: 2019-07-26

What Is madVR? | Complete madVR Set up | How to Get Help

This guide outlines the hardware necessary to achieve high-performance playback from madVR at 3840 x 2160p.

The current landscape of UHD technology is shifting and true 4K UHD PC support is still new. Therefore, this guide is incomplete and anyone looking to build a 4K HTPC in 2019 should proceed with caution until PC support of UHD Blu-ray and 4K UHD media is more mature.

Currently, madVR is the only media software on Windows that supports HDR10 metadata passthrough using APIs provided by AMD and Nvidia without relying on forced system-wide HDR output offered by Windows 10. Both SDR and HDR content will playback correctly with automatic EOTF and color space switching.

1 – CPU

It is unrealistic for all but the most powerful modern CPUs to decode high-bitrate, 10-bit 4K HEVC video using CPU-based (software) decoding. The computing power required to decode HEVC is 5-10 times higher than equivalent H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.

Considering the UHD standard calls for data rates of up to 82 Mbit/s for 50 GB discs, 108 Mbit/s for 66 GB discs and 128 Mbit/s for 100 GB discs, even low bitrate 4K UHD content is close to double the bitrate of 1080p Blu-ray (max. of 54 Mbit/s). Those bitrates include both audio and video. But, coupled with slow HEVC decoding, the load posed by 4K UHD Blu-ray is formidable for any CPU or hardware decoder. So we will assume the bulk of difficult 10-bit HEVC decoding will be handled by a fixed-function GPU hardware decoder capable of handling high-bitrate decoding.

If you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray discs, Intel Kaby Lake (7th generation) Core i5 or i7 processors are a minimum requirement for compatibility with UHD Blu-ray drives. The choice of CPU is only relevant if you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray disks (not rips). Otherwise, any CPU is appropriate as long as you are satisfied with boot times and OS performance.

The critical component of a HTPC is the GPU. So don't worry too much about the CPU and motherboard. The CPU should remain mostly idle during HTPC use.

Intel (with legal UHD Blu-ray disc support):

Minimum: Kaby Lake Core i5
Extreme: Kaby Lake Core i7

Intel (for general HTPC use):

Budget: Pentium
Performance: Core i3
Extreme: Core i5 or i7

AMD (for general HTPC use):

Budget: AMD Ryzen 3
Performance: AMD Ryzen 3
Extreme: AMD Ryzen 5 or 7

2 – Motherboard

The motherboard must be compatible with the chosen CPU and fit into the chosen case form factor.

Considerations:
  • RAM Types
    (e.g. DDR2, DDR3, DDR4)
  • RAM Frequencies
    (e.g. 1066 MHz up to 4600 MHz)
  • Memory Slots
    (e.g. 4 x 240-pin DIMM)
  • Max. Memory
    (e.g. 32GB)
  • Expansion Slots
    (e.g. 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 for GPUs / 4 x SATA 6Gb/s / 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 for TV tuner cards)
  • High-Speed SSD Slots (up to 40Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s SATA III)
    (e.g. 1 x M.2)
  • CPU Overclocking
    (e.g. Intel H97 vs. Z97 / cheap AMD vs. 990FX)
  • USB 3.0
    (e.g. 4 x USB 3.0 Ports)
  • Onboard Gigabit Ethernet
    (e.g. 1 x 1000 Mbit/s)
  • Onboard Wireless LAN
    (e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n/ac or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • Onboard Bluetooth
    (e.g. Bluetooth 4.0/3.0 or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • S/PDIF Out
    (e.g. 1 x Optical)
  • Case Form Factor
    (e.g. ATX (tower), mini ITX (small form factor), micro ATX (slim profile))
3 – Memory

Up to the discretion of the user. Larger amounts of RAM than recommended are suitable for PCs that double as gaming rigs.

Buying two equal-sized memory modules (e.g. 2 x 4GB) and inserting them into the paired slots on the motherboard can result in small improvements in memory read, copy, write, latency and bandwidth performance and should be strongly considered if you are using onboard video graphics rather than a dedicated GPU.

Single-Channel vs. Dual-Channel - Does It Matter?

Minimum: 6GB
Recommended: 8GB

4 – Internal Storage

A Solid State Drive (SSD) is recommended for HTPC use. Instant access speeds provided by SSDs will make a PC fast in every regard from boot times to responsive control of the operating system. SSDs can also improve the performance of media front-ends such as Kodi and Emby by significantly reducing the time required to cache and load artwork. For a HTPC that doesn’t deal with large file transfers, a SATA interface SSD will perform just as fast as a PCIe interface SSD. SATA SSDs are recommended as the preferred hard drive for a HTPC operating system.

Minimum: 80GB
Recommended: 120-240GB

Data Interface: SATA III: 6Gbit/s; PCIe x8: 40 Gbit/s.

Physical Connector:
  • SATA: 6Gbit/s (SATA Interface);
  • PCIe: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (PCIe Interface);
  • M.2: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (SATA Interface M.2 and PCIe Interface M.2).
More on SSD types here.

More on PCIe vs. SATA here.

5 – Graphics Card

The majority of madVR processing is carried out on the graphics card. 4K UHD playback is not the primary concern of picking a suitable card. Rather, upscaling any HD video to 2160p (4K UHD) revolves around the use of costly image doubling — preferably, NGU. High definition scaling factors start at 2x (1080p -> 2160p) and can become as large as 3x (720p -> 2160p). An ideal 4K graphics card would allow for the use of image doubling plus artifact removal and post-processing for FHD content — often combining multiple shaders and upscaling under one profile. Cards with this power will have no problem playing 10-bit 4K UHD.

HEVC hardware decoding is also a consideration. The chosen GPU should be capable of decoding 10-bit HEVC with a full-function (not hybrid) hardware decoder capable of decoding high-bitrate HEVC without reducing the rendering performance of the GPU.

Up to 4GB of VRAM can be required when using normal queue sizes combined with NGU image scaling, common madVR processing and subtitles.

Considerations:
  • 4GB+ of VRAM
  • Fixed-function 10-bit HEVC decoder
  • HDMI 2.0a/b (4K 60 fps)
Minimum

These are mid-level cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using super-xbr/NGU image scaling with artifact removal and post-processing. This allows the user to take advantage of all madVR features, only compromising in algorithm quality (e.g. NGU low, medium and sometimes high) and with content with high frame rates (>25 fps).

Recommended

These are mid-high cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using NGU image doubling with artifact removal and post-processing. Fewer compromises are required at high frame rates and it is possible to use NGU high quality image doubling with some profiles. A reduction in settings may be necessary with 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts.

Performance

These are high-end cards capable of the most aggressive settings with little to no compromise playing any content. NGU very high quality with artifact removal and post-processing is possible with all profiles (SD, 720p, 1080p, 4K UHD). Possible exceptions include 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts, which may require a reduction in some settings.

HDR Tone Mapping

The last category are for those primarily interested in buying a card to use madVR's high-quality pixel shader HDR tone mapping. The recommended cards are capable of using tone mapping with all of the HDR enhancements enabled (with some adjustment to the unimportant chroma upscaling setting) with 4K 24 fps content. A setting or two may be need to be disabled at 4K 60 fps, but this is a minor concern given the majority of 60 fps content is limited to HDR demo clips. Lesser cards can still run madVR's tone mapping in good quality, but a few performance compromises may have to be made.

Current GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 1650
Recommended: GTX 1660 6GB / RTX 2060
Performance: RTX 2080
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1660 Ti / RTX 2060

AMD:

Minimum: RX 560 (Baffin XT, not Baffin XL; Discussion)
Recommended: RX 580 / RX 5700
Performance: RX Vega 64 / RX 5700 XT
iGPU(Minimum): RX Vega M GL / RX Vega M GH
HDR Tone Mapping: RX Vega 56 / RX 5700

Used GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 960 4GB / GTX 1050 3GB / GTX 1050 Ti
Recommended: GTX 1060 6GB
Performance: GTX 1080 Ti
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1070 / GTX 1070 Ti

AMD:

Minimum: RX 470
Recommended: RX 480

Note: AMD Polaris cards struggle with NGU image scaling in madVR. This makes equivalent Nvidia cards the performance choice, even if benchmarks between equivalent cards can be similar.

Fan noise should also be considered when buying a GPU. There can be a lot of variability in fan quality and fan noise during video playback can be bothersome. Tests like this one for the RTX 2060 are best consulted before purchase.


On a budget and need basic 4K UHD video processing:

AMD Ryzen 3 2200G, AMD Ryzen 5 2400G, Nvidia GT 1030 2GB and Nvidia GTX 1050 2GB are all capable of playing 4K 60 fps content with madVR, but only with basic processing.

Recommended Base Settings:
  • Set madVR to its default video processing settings and/or set image upscaling to DXVA2;
  • CPU and GPU queue sizes set to 8/8 or lower;
  • 8GB of the fastest RAM you can find should be run in dual-channel mode (2 x 4GB - only applies to AMD APUs);
  • XySubFilter is not recommended to render subtitles;
  • Use of 3D LUTs or tone mapping by pixel shaders are unlikely.
6 – Optical Drive

Official 4K UHD Blu-ray drive support is offered by Pioneer and LG. Those purchasing the BDR-S11J-BK (internal), BDR-S11J-X (internal) or LG WH16NS60 (internal) must combine the drive with:
  • Windows 10;
  • 6 GB of system RAM;
  • Motherboard with HDCP 2.2, SGX and AACS 3.0;
  • Intel Kaby Lake Core i5 or i7;
  • Intel HD Graphics 630 or 640.
Note: This only applies to legal UHD Blu-ray disc playback on a HTPC (not the drives required to rip these discs or for other decryption methods).

Cyberlink PowerDVD is the only option for legal playback software of 4K UHD discs on PC. The Pioneer drives arrive packaged with PowerDVD.

PowerDVD UHD Blu-ray System Requirements

Grey Market Decryption – UHD Blu-ray Disc Requirements:
How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD "Friendly" Drives

RedFox AnyDVD (HD) and DVDFab Passkey don't require any special motherboard, CPU or other hardware beyond a "friendly" Blu-ray drive, 4K-ready graphics card and available hashed keys for select discs.

The cost of any additional playback or decryption software should be factored in with the cost of the drive.

Drive Specifications: BDXL (triple-layer support)
Playback Software: Cyberlink PowerDVD, JRiver Media Center (with Blu-ray menu support), Kodi Matrix 19.0 HDR Edition, MPC and other free media players.

7 – Power Supply

The power supply must be large enough to provide the necessary wattage for all components when under load. Other considerations include its size — it must be small enough to fit inside the chosen case. And it should be reasonably quiet — suitable for watching videos in silence.

Websites such as this are available to provide estimates of the power draw of any assembled PC. An example system is shown below:



The 80 Plus certification program (Bronze to Titanium) defines the efficiency of the power supply. The higher the rating, the lower the power usage at a given wattage. Basically, this indicates how much power is wasted by the PSU from the power outlet to the PC when delivering a required amount of wattage.

More on 80 Plus certification here.

Power supplies come in three configurations. Cheaper PSUs are hard-wired with all necessary cables to connect to the most common PC components. More expensive models can be partially-modular, where there is some discretion in what accessory power cables are connected to the power supply, or fully-modular, where there is full discretion over what power cables are connected to the PSU. Fully-modular power supplies that limit power cable connectors to those you actually need tend to be the easiest to work with and can keep the interior of the case tidier with less cable clutter.

How to pick the best PC power supply

8 – Case

The case is up to preference. It must be sized appropriately for the chosen motherboard and graphics card, and fit comfortably into its end-use component rack.

Form Factors:
  • ATX (tower)
  • HTPC (horizontal)
  • mini ITX (small form factor)
  • micro ATX (slim profile)
9 – Operating System

As DirectShow software, madVR is compatible with Windows operating systems.

Recommended OS (with UHD Blu-ray disc support):
  • Windows 10
Recommended OS (for general madVR playback):
  • Windows 8.1
  • Windows 10
10 – Accessories

Recommended Accessories:
11 – Building a Silent HTPC

Because this PC will be used to watch videos and not play video games, you are unlikely to be wearing gaming headphones at any point and may care greatly about PC noise levels. With all its large moving parts and multiple fans, no PC will be truly silent, but there are several ways to lower the working decibel level of any PC build:

Silent HTPC Components:

CPU:
The CPU is rarely under load in a PC that primarily plays videos, so the stock computer cooler should spin at idle speeds during normal operation. If you find the stock cooler is a tad noisy, even at idle, aftermarket CPU coolers are fairly cheap and are almost always more silent than the stock cooler.

GPU: It is a good idea to purchase a GPU with multiple, large fans that can keep the GPU cool under load as well as provide some additional overhead for overclocking without increasing GPU temperatures too much. Choosing a GPU with larger fans is a way to keep the GPU quieter, as larger fans are more efficient at cooling than smaller fans and will usually spin a slower rate.

Custom fan curves created with overclocking software such as MSI Afterburner are the most basic way to reduce GPU noise by improving upon the factory fan curve, which is often tilted towards keeping GPU temperatures as low as possible with unnecessarily aggressive fan speeds for given temperatures. With some trial-and-error, custom fan curves can be constructed that maintain stable operating temperatures under a heavy load with a constant reduced fan speed: Example: GTX 1060 6GB MSI Afterburner Custom Fan Curve.

Tip: MSI Afterburner has options to display the GPU fan speed and temperature on the Windows Taskbar for easy monitoring. Enable these options under the Monitoring tab. Then right-click on the Taskbar, select Taskbar settings and click Select which icons appear on the Taskbar.

MSI Afterburner Tray Icons: GPU Fan Speed and Temperature Indicators

Controlling Other System Fans with SpeedFan (excluding the PSU fan)

Power Supply: The power supply is an often-overlooked source of PC noise. A cheap and inefficient power supply will produce more noise than a GPU by throwing away high amounts of power from the wall outlet in the form of excess heat. This buildup of heat often causes the PSU fan to spin loudly to cool the PSU, and most cheaper power supplies are equipped with low-quality fans with aggressive built-in fan curves. Obnoxious PSU fan noise can sometimes be misidentified as GPU fan noise because the PSU fan will typically ramp up at the same time as when GPU temperatures rise and the GPU fan RPMs increase. It is possible to differentiate between the two fans by carefully monitoring the GPU fan speed after a high load is removed to see if the noise is still audible after the GPU fans have throttled down.

Purchasing an efficient power supply (Gold to Platinum Certified) is not a bad idea if you want to keep the PC silent as possible. Efficient power supplies generate less wasted power, resulting in less heat and often have more intelligent fan controllers (semi-passive modes) that turn off the PSU fan at lower temperatures and use more relaxed fan curves. Some of the more expensive PSUs are completely silent and fanless by using passive cooling. To keep PSU efficiency high, it is advised to purchase a power supply with slightly more wattage than you need or that is recommended by online power supply calculators to keep all power usage well under the maximum available wattage.

List of Recommended PSUs for Every Budget (Ultra High-End to Budget Models)

Case: The last consideration is where all of the components will be stored. You can go in two directions in purchasing a silent case: Buy one with sound dampening material to keep as much noise as possible inside the case or buy a larger case with good airflow to lower noise levels by keeping the internal components cooler.

Soundproof cases are mostly limited to tower or mid-tower form factors and often use sound dampening insulation on the case walls to lower decibel levels by keeping reflected sound inside the case. These cases can be more expensive than regular PC cases, but can make for excellent HTPC cases if you can live with the tower form factor.

Quiet PC Cases at Newegg.com

A more practical way to lower PC noise levels is to choose a case design that has good spacing between the system components, well-placed ventilation holes to exhaust hot air and flexible options for installing case fans. This combination will keep internal temperatures as low as possible by maximizing airflow in and out of the case. The best case airflow is achieved by adding case fans, placing one or more intake fans on the front of the case to draw in cold air and a case fan at the back to exhaust built-up heat to the case rear. Most case designs pre-install a single exhaust fan at the rear, but require aftermarket installation of any front intake fans. As with GPUs, larger case fans (120mm or larger) are more efficient at moving air than smaller fans and will be more silent by spinning at lower RPMs.

How to Manage Your PC’s Fans for Optimal Airflow and Cooling

Summary: Making the Best Silent PC Gaming Build in 2019

Example: Passively-Cooled & Completely Fanless PC

Putting It All Together – Building Your System

Now that the components of a system have been outlined, it is time to build one for yourself!

PCPartPicker is a handy tool for experimenting with various hardware configurations. Thousands of components are found in its database from the most reputable brands in the PC industry linked directly to popular online parts sites. By creating a user account, you can create multiple parts lists and even purchase individual components directly from the vendor.

When attempting any build with PCPartPicker, I would recommend starting with the case then the CPU, ending with the power supply. The compatibility checker will ensure each part added to the list is compatible with the form factor, inputs and chipsets of the existing components.

Example madVR 4K HTPC Build

Ripping UHD Blu-ray Discs with MakeMKV

The simplest way to create UHD HDR10 media suitable for HTPC use is by ripping UHD Blu-ray discs. MakeMKV has made this process fairly simple. With an UHD "friendly" drive, MakeMKV can read the disc, as long as a decryption key for the disc is known, and rip the appropriate video, audio and subtitle tracks into an .mkv container. This is all lossless. The relevant tracks are simply packaged into an .mkv ready for playback by any media player, free or paid. If storage is an issue, the file can be compressed by software such as StaxRip.

UHD Blu-ray disc ripping requires:
How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD Drives

International UHD Drive Sales & Firmware Flashing Service

Ultra-High-Definition Blu-ray Disc (UHD-BD) Backup & Playback Guidance

Heads up - Support for Official LG UHD Drives Coming in 2019

Do not update the firmware of legacy UHD drives or it will no longer work. UHD "friendly" drives are drives produced for normal BR discs (so, AACS 1.0) but with BDXL (three/four layer disc) capabilities. These "friendly" drives may be less predictable than the recommended official UHD Blu-ray drives at reliably reading all UHD Blu-ray discs and the odd disc may fail to read. Both types of drives require older firmware versions (either flashed or factory) to unlock the ability to read and rip UHD discs.

The downloaded hashed key file must be installed into the MakeMKV data directory (which is set in the preferences - NOT the program directory). MakeMKV v1.12.3 added the option to update this file automatically with an Internet connection. The download link is updated weekly, sometimes several times a week. Those requiring manual updates should bookmark the above link and return back regularly. The hashed key method is different than the general crack of AACS 1.0 used to rip 1080p Blu-rays.

There are often many versions of each UHD Blu-ray disc, which cover many regions. If your disc is not supported, it is possible to take the dump file created when an attempt is made to open the UHD disc and send it to MakeMKV. That disc will be included in the next hashed key file update, so the disc can then be ripped. This means the creation of hashed keys is virtually infinite.

MakeMKV UHD Blu-ray FAQ

Tip: Set the minimum title length to 3600 seconds (60 minutes) and a default language preference in Preferences to ease the task of identifying the correct video, audio and subtitle tracks.

Other UHD Blu-ray Ripping Software:
External NAS Storage

Data storage is a significant concern when using digital media. The storage of 4K UHD media, in particular, will consume a large amount of hard drive space (measured in terabytes, or TBs). This data storage can be managed with cheap USB external hard drives, but such hard drives do not offer near the same level of reliability and protection as Network Attached Storage (NAS).

Average File Sizes of Current Rips:
  • DVD: 8GB (avg);
  • Blu-ray: 20GB-40GB;
  • UHD Blu-ray: 50GB-85GB.
All NAS offer some form of backup redundancy (RAID), where data is spread across multiple drives, sometimes allowing for the replacement of failed drives without upsetting the performance of the rest.

There are two ways to go about creating a NAS server:
Pre-built NAS devices are pre-loaded with proprietary NAS software. It is possible to take any existing drive array in a PC and turn it into a NAS drive pool by using software RAID.

RAID software can be configured to several RAID levels that provide a balance of available storage space versus protection against data loss. RAID calculators are available to calculate the available capacity of each RAID level and tolerance to drive failure.

Example DIY Builds Using Popular RAID Software:

unRAID NAS Server

SnapRAID NAS Server / Windows Media Manager

Windows Software – Media Front-Ends

Finally, the following media front-ends can be used to enhance the experience of video playback by organizing your media collection and providing detailed metadata and artwork for each title. Some front-ends also offer content from add-ons that can be played through the media player and enhanced by madVR.

Media front-ends with integrated madVR video players:
Media front-ends that support external players:
 
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1
#3 ·
Thanks for your input...

Sure, I can agree a 950/960 is adequate for 4K madVR use. However, those who want to use NNEDI3 image doubling with post-processing debanding and image sharpening will be disappointed.

It has been proven by other users the GTX 960 is not powerful enough for NNEDI3 image doubling+. You would require a card such as a GTX 980 Ti. Even then, you could use more power. And there are still new madVR features on the horizon to further tax your GPU.
 
#4 ·
It has to be said, though, that NNEDI3 image doubling is not really necessary. With my GTX 960 I can do 1080 -> 4K super-xbr + SuperRes (4) chroma, super-xbr + SuperRes (4) luma/chroma doubling, with power to spare. NNEDI3 is just too much of a power hog to be worthwhile, in my opinion. Having said that, I'm still looking forward to the new video cards this year.
 
#14 ·
Can anyone confirm that the gtx 1060 will do passthrough of Atmos/DTSx? The answer should be yes but that is proving difficult to confirm.
 
#15 ·
Just replaced a GTX 980 in HTPC with a 1070 yesterday. It has the same format pass-through capabilities with its HDMI as the 980 does, just as it should.
 
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#16 · (Edited)
My computer in the home theater is using a GTX 960. I'm not currently using madVR as I was letting my JVC projector do the upscaling (I have a Samsung UHD Bluray for 4k playback.) Would it be better to use a lesser setting in madVR with the 960 or try to get hold of a GTX 1060 or Radeon RX480 to allow more NNEDI3 processing?
 
#26 ·
Well, I updated my card from a GTX960 to a GTX1070 so that I could use NNEDI3 for image doubling/etc. (I always use less for chroma.) I am having too long of render times so that I am dropping many frames. I followed the Guide with the standards for a "High" PC but am having no luck. I am still playing with settings.

From reading the Guide over on Kodi I would have thought the 1070 would be stout enough to carry heavier processing (God knows it cost a king's ransom.) Any suggestions? I am trying to run 4k 24fps. My computer is an ASUS Z170 with i5 6600 processor, 16 GB memory, Windows 7 64, the GTX 1070 and my display is my RS500 JVC Projector.

Thanks for any help.
 
#30 ·
Thanks for your help. I went with your settings from the Kodi guide for high end. I did lower Chroma Upscaling to super-xbr but with NNEDI3 64 for both both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling + SuperRes 3 I was getting around 55ms render times. I had to lower it down to NNEDI3 32 and I think I had to lower down the Quadruple to NNEDI. I followed the guide's advice about BiCubic 150 for the Image Downscale down from Jinc where I had it and I finally got the render time dependably around 30-34ms and quit dropping frames. I disabled Chroma doubling as it said to in the Kodi guide.

I ended up with a very detailed but very overcooked looking picture. Maybe the Superres on both doubling and quadrupling was too much? I'm sure I can continue to work with the settings to improve.
 
#33 ·
I have a question guys: I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for HEVC HW 10-bit decoding.

Right now I have a 1080p monitor/tv but let's say I will have a 4K screen in the future. Is it true that 2GB of VRAM is not enough for true 4K 10-bit playback? I read this somewhere

Do I need 4GB of VRAM?

I'm waiting for GTX 1050 (Ti) and I want to know if more VRAM makes a difference
 
#34 ·
One thing I may be doing which may be a mistake, I haven't gotten to set up all the different profiles, I've just configured what appear to be the best settings that my card can bear in each of the settings in MadVR. Therefore, under Image Doubling, I have both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling checked. Image Doubling is checked for at least 2x and Image Quadrupling is checked for at least 3X. Is this correct?

My understanding would be if I have a 1080p source, then the logic under Image Doubling would kick in and Double the image to my 4k display. I assumed what happened when I had a 720p source was that image quadrupling would be selected under the 3x or higher. But technically, is it also 2x or greater than image which would call image doubling up as well?

That might explain some of the reason the card seems to be slightly under-delivering.
 
#35 ·
Make a profile for each resolution and possibly different source fps. This is covered in the guide.

2160p: NNEDI3 chroma upscaling with sharpen edges + AR + AB (image enhancements)

720p/1080p: super-xbr chroma upscaling with NNEDI3 luma doubling and SuperRes 1-3 (upscaling refinement).

It sounds like you need to experiment with SuperRes if the image is too harsh/detailed.
 
#38 ·
VRAM has little bearing on video decoding these days, cause it's usually done by the video decoder ASIC and not CUDA/shader decoding like it was in the old days. Nvidia killed that off several years ago. Encoding/transcoding, on the other hand, will see performance increases with VRAM increases and madVR is software that re-renders video frames to your liking, so it too does better with larger amounts of memory. IMO, there is no reason not to buy the upcoming GTX 1050TI, unless you simply cannot afford it or it won't fit in your case. I am waiting for the compact, single-slot version that was pictured in the leaks, yet we only see longer, two-slot cards with twin cooling for over-clocking enthusiasts, so I am not sure when we'll get what was leaked.
 
#40 ·
Noticed something recently and would like some input.

Full HTPC in my signature, but in summary: Win10 Pro, Jriver, i5-4670k, GTX-1060 SC Gaming (6GB). I have a Vizio M70-d3, and I'm outputting video directly from the GPU (while audio goes from the iGPU to my old receiver).

I setup MadVR using the Kodi forum guide from @Onkyoman signature and OP. I used the part of the guide several posts down, starting with "Let's repeat this process, this time assuming the display resolution is 3840 x 2160p (4K UHD). Two graphics cards will be used for reference. A Medium-level card such as the GTX 960, and a High-level card similar to a GTX 1080."

For the most part I used the GTX 960 settings. At this point I can't remember if I made any substantial changes toward the 1080 settings, but I think in an effort to solve this issue I am pretty much back at the 960 settings.

On certain content types, namely TV shows that are 30 (or 29.97) fps, whether 1080p or 720p, I get dropped frames constantly. At least a few per second. Using a little android remote system monitor I could see while viewing this content that the GPU core was running at 96-99%. For 1080p24 content it hovered in the range of 85-92%. Clearly I'm taxing the GPU.

I tried every manner of knocking back settings with no luck, until last night. I unchecked SuperRes from upscaling refinement. Boom - problem went away, GPU usage % dropped to mid 80's and all was good.

Previously I had only basic profiles in MadVR... SD, 720p, 1080p, 2160p. I created another filter as the guide suggests for 1080p60, and one for 720p60 and unchecked SuperRes for these.

My questions are...

  1. Does this make sense?
  2. Should my 1060 have this sort of issue with settings proposed for a 960?
  3. Am I better off sacrificing something other than SuperRes to bring the processing time down?


Here is some MedifInfo data for one of the files in question:

Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 1.04 GiB
Duration : 39 min
Overall bit rate : 3 740 kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2016-10-10 05:23:09
Writing application : mkvmerge v7.9.0 ('Birds') 32bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.1 + libmatroska v1.4.2

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 39 min
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 3 608 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.058
Stream size : 1 011 MiB (95%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Thanks!
 
#41 ·
Those are guesses not hard wired, tested settings. It may be that these settings are too aggressive for some content (> 24 fps) as 24 fps is the example frame rate. This is news to me that the 1060 would struggle with these settings.

Try setting the 30 fps settings to ordered dithering and Bicubic chroma upscaling. That might make room for SuperRes.
 
#42 ·
new graphic card for madvr

Hello.

Recently, I had replace my HTPC due to a broken CPU. In the past, I struggled with my fanless AMD HD6570 when I switch to madvr.

My new config is i5 6400, Z170 microATX mobo, 8GB DDR4 RAM, 64 GB SSD hard disk and a HDR4400 sat card. HDMI mobo port is connected to a 1080p Pioneer plasma. I consider to buy a 4K OLED UHD in future.

I like SVP (even 120Hz output), and with the new config, I can play 4k content with the i5 6400, and media is smooth with appropiate SVP config. Problem is when switch with madvr again. iGPU Intel HD530 is not enough.

I would like to buy a new card able to trust with madvr. My doubt is AMD or NVIDIA. I consider RX470 or GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1060 (3Gb or 6GB?). I always had AMD configs, but now with Intel, I consider Nvidia (I never used CUDA features with madvr). I have some doubts:

1) 23,976 and how accurate is frequency rate on NVIDIA? I have read some problems with frequency rate with NVIDIA. iGPU Intel is fine in that point, and AMD has good opinions in that point. Is really important that if I use SVP? Or this is too a problem with 60Hz?

2) I actually have a 1080p panel, if I reproduce 4K content, madvr works to downscale and work with 1080p? In future I consider to buy a 4K panel, what card is more appropiate for that?

3) Would I have enough power with i5 6400 and one of these cards to play with SVP+madvr?

Thanks.
 
#43 ·
Hello.

Recently, I had replace my HTPC due to a broken CPU. In the past, I struggled with my fanless AMD HD6570 when I switch to madvr.

My new config is i5 6400, Z170 microATX mobo, 8GB DDR4 RAM, 64 GB SSD hard disk and a HDR4400 sat card. HDMI mobo port is connected to a 1080p Pioneer plasma. I consider to buy a 4K OLED UHD in future.

I like SVP (even 120Hz output), and with the new config, I can play 4k content with the i5 6400, and media is smooth with appropiate SVP config. Problem is when switch with madvr again. iGPU Intel HD530 is not enough.

I would like to buy a new card able to trust with madvr. My doubt is AMD or NVIDIA. I consider RX470 or GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1060 (3Gb or 6GB?). I always had AMD configs, but now with Intel, I consider Nvidia (I never used CUDA features with madvr). I have some doubts:

1) 23,976 and how accurate is frequency rate on NVIDIA? I have read some problems with frequency rate with NVIDIA. iGPU Intel is fine in that point, and AMD has good opinions in that point. Is really important that if I use SVP? Or this is too a problem with 60Hz?

2) I actually have a 1080p panel, if I reproduce 4K content, madvr works to downscale and work with 1080p? In future I consider to buy a 4K panel, what card is more appropiate for that?

3) Would I have enough power with i5 6400 and one of these cards to play with SVP+madvr?

Thanks.
1) 23.976 is not that accurate with Nvidia cards. I get one frame drop/repeat every three and a half minutes. SVP doesn't matter in this case because it is outputting at 60 Hz not 24p.

2) 1080p panels don't require a high end GPU. I am using a GTX 750 Ti with success. However, downscaling 4K to 1080p requires a more powerful card to use aggressive settings. Given the lack of 4K media, this should not matter today. But you should invest in a card that can hardware decode HEVC in the future.

3) SVP + madVR at 1080p would be easy with anything above a GTX 750 Ti. Again, to be future-proof, I would invest in a new card with HEVC decoding.
 
#47 ·
On Doom 9 a guy has compiled a sheet with comparison of madVR run at different levels with different cards. The indication to look for are Tflops, not cores (as cores performance depends on the overall architecture).
 
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#48 ·
I currently have a computer with an i7 and GTX 980ti SLI, and wanted to get people's opinion on what they believe looks better.
I have a 120'' Screen with a 4k Image Shift JVC projector (x750).

Would a 1080p blu-ray using MadVR upscaled to 4k look better than the UHD 4k Blu-ray version?
 
#49 ·
Most uhd 4k blurays are 2k upscales.

However they use a wider color range (rec 2020) and hdr.

So it'll depend on the movie. But hdr adds more than the resolution bump imo.

Real 4k stuff would look better.

Movies with poor hdr and colors are not much better than 1080p bluray. So madvr.

Madvr for both will be great once the protection is cracked and we can play the movies through the pc.
 
#51 ·
Jumping into the fray here. I'm looking at picking up a gtx 1080 card, but there are a ton of different flavors, manufacturers, clock speeds, etc... It's a bit overwhelming.

Is there one in particular that will do best with MadVR and using NNEID3 (or the new NG1 that madshi is developing).. I plan on posting over at doom9, but there's a 5-day wait for new users to post.

I have been eyeing this one in particular:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K5F8MJ...lid=13CJ5N0G3K8NQ&coliid=I2Z2DILCPXKZWH&psc=1
 
#54 ·
you need 4 GB of vram to display UHD. frame rate has nothing to do with this.
with 2Gb and a GPU queue of 4 you can still use madVR but deinterlancing doesn't work with this and other setting my break down too.

i have a RX 480 and i'm pretty sure it can't beat the 1070 in madVR.
nvidia has currently the better working hardware decoder but a RX 480 4GB version is cheaper than a 6 GB 1060 and the 1060 3G can get in Vram trouble at UHD.
 
#55 ·
I can't find comparisons at doom9. People speaks about his card... the best or shorty card. I insist. Looking for cores: rx480 beats gtx 1070 or i am wrong?

Speaking about heat and temperature. Could you consider a valid solution for silent htpcs the liquid cooling for gpus like nzxt kraken or similar?

Thanks.
 
#56 ·
you still have to cool the radiator and extra noise from the pump.
water cooling is mostly improving the temps not noise level.

a GTX 1070 is a way better card than a RX 480. the RX 480 shouldn't stand a chance.

a passive 1050/1050 ti could show up sooner than later.
passive cooling a CPU is boring and a no issue at all of cause with intel. AMD doesn't exists on the CPU market for now...
 
#57 ·
I don't game and my machines sole purpose is as an htpc.

I had the evga gtx 960 but as soon as I upgraded from a 1080p to 4k uhd tv I had to swap with the evga gtx 970 in my other machine because it wasn't able to keep up. I tried out the evga gtx 1050ti today but immediately put it back in the box to return because it can't keep up based on how I configured madvr for the gtx 970.

I'm debating getting the evga gtx 1060 or just sticking with my 970 for now. I don't want to get the 1060 and be disappointed again.

I'd love to get a 1070 or even 1080 but that's currently way too expensive for an htpc.

I'm definitely snobby when it comes to audio /video quality lol.

Any thoughts on if the 1060 will out perform the 970 with madvr and mpc-hc or should I not waste my time?

Thanks in advance.
 
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