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Onkyoman 03-12-2016 10:30 PM

Guide: Building a 4K HTPC for madVR
 
Last Updated: 2019-07-26

What Is madVR? | Complete madVR Set up | How to Get Help

This guide outlines the hardware necessary to achieve high-performance playback from madVR at 3840 x 2160p.

The current landscape of UHD technology is shifting and true 4K UHD PC support is still new. Therefore, this guide is incomplete and anyone looking to build a 4K HTPC in 2019 should proceed with caution until PC support of UHD Blu-ray and 4K UHD media is more mature.

Currently, madVR is the only media software on Windows that supports HDR10 metadata passthrough using APIs provided by AMD and Nvidia without relying on forced system-wide HDR output offered by Windows 10. Both SDR and HDR content will playback correctly with automatic EOTF and color space switching.

1 – CPU

It is unrealistic for all but the most powerful modern CPUs to decode high-bitrate, 10-bit 4K HEVC video using CPU-based (software) decoding. The computing power required to decode HEVC is 5-10 times higher than equivalent H.264/MPEG-4 AVC.

Considering the UHD standard calls for data rates of up to 82 Mbit/s for 50 GB discs, 108 Mbit/s for 66 GB discs and 128 Mbit/s for 100 GB discs, even low bitrate 4K UHD content is close to double the bitrate of 1080p Blu-ray (max. of 54 Mbit/s). Those bitrates include both audio and video. But, coupled with slow HEVC decoding, the load posed by 4K UHD Blu-ray is formidable for any CPU or hardware decoder. So we will assume the bulk of difficult 10-bit HEVC decoding will be handled by a fixed-function GPU hardware decoder capable of handling high-bitrate decoding.

If you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray discs, Intel Kaby Lake (7th generation) Core i5 or i7 processors are a minimum requirement for compatibility with UHD Blu-ray drives. The choice of CPU is only relevant if you want legal playback of UHD Blu-ray disks (not rips). Otherwise, any CPU is appropriate as long as you are satisfied with boot times and OS performance.

The critical component of a HTPC is the GPU. So don't worry too much about the CPU and motherboard. The CPU should remain mostly idle during HTPC use.

Intel (with legal UHD Blu-ray disc support):

Minimum: Kaby Lake Core i5
Extreme: Kaby Lake Core i7

Intel (for general HTPC use):

Budget: Pentium
Performance: Core i3
Extreme: Core i5 or i7

AMD (for general HTPC use):

Budget: AMD Ryzen 3
Performance: AMD Ryzen 3
Extreme: AMD Ryzen 5 or 7

2 – Motherboard

The motherboard must be compatible with the chosen CPU and fit into the chosen case form factor.

Considerations:

  • RAM Types
    (e.g. DDR2, DDR3, DDR4)
  • RAM Frequencies
    (e.g. 1066 MHz up to 4600 MHz)
  • Memory Slots
    (e.g. 4 x 240-pin DIMM)
  • Max. Memory
    (e.g. 32GB)
  • Expansion Slots
    (e.g. 1 x PCI Express 3.0 x16 for GPUs / 4 x SATA 6Gb/s / 1 x PCI Express 2.0 x1 for TV tuner cards)
  • High-Speed SSD Slots (up to 40Gb/s vs. 6Gb/s SATA III)
    (e.g. 1 x M.2)
  • CPU Overclocking
    (e.g. Intel H97 vs. Z97 / cheap AMD vs. 990FX)
  • USB 3.0
    (e.g. 4 x USB 3.0 Ports)
  • Onboard Gigabit Ethernet
    (e.g. 1 x 1000 Mbit/s)
  • Onboard Wireless LAN
    (e.g. Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n/ac or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • Onboard Bluetooth
    (e.g. Bluetooth 4.0/3.0 or 1 x Mini PCI Express)
  • S/PDIF Out
    (e.g. 1 x Optical)
  • Case Form Factor
    (e.g. ATX (tower), mini ITX (small form factor), micro ATX (slim profile))

3 – Memory

Up to the discretion of the user. Larger amounts of RAM than recommended are suitable for PCs that double as gaming rigs.

Buying two equal-sized memory modules (e.g. 2 x 4GB) and inserting them into the paired slots on the motherboard can result in small improvements in memory read, copy, write, latency and bandwidth performance and should be strongly considered if you are using onboard video graphics rather than a dedicated GPU.

Single-Channel vs. Dual-Channel - Does It Matter?

Minimum: 6GB
Recommended: 8GB

4 – Internal Storage

A Solid State Drive (SSD) is recommended for HTPC use. Instant access speeds provided by SSDs will make a PC fast in every regard from boot times to responsive control of the operating system. SSDs can also improve the performance of media front-ends such as Kodi and Emby by significantly reducing the time required to cache and load artwork. For a HTPC that doesn’t deal with large file transfers, a SATA interface SSD will perform just as fast as a PCIe interface SSD. SATA SSDs are recommended as the preferred hard drive for a HTPC operating system.

Minimum: 80GB
Recommended: 120-240GB

Data Interface: SATA III: 6Gbit/s; PCIe x8: 40 Gbit/s.

Physical Connector:

  • SATA: 6Gbit/s (SATA Interface);
  • PCIe: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (PCIe Interface);
  • M.2: up to 40Gbit/s (PCIe x8) - actual performance tends to be much lower (SATA Interface M.2 and PCIe Interface M.2).

More on SSD types here.

More on PCIe vs. SATA here.

5 – Graphics Card

The majority of madVR processing is carried out on the graphics card. 4K UHD playback is not the primary concern of picking a suitable card. Rather, upscaling any HD video to 2160p (4K UHD) revolves around the use of costly image doubling — preferably, NGU. High definition scaling factors start at 2x (1080p -> 2160p) and can become as large as 3x (720p -> 2160p). An ideal 4K graphics card would allow for the use of image doubling plus artifact removal and post-processing for FHD content — often combining multiple shaders and upscaling under one profile. Cards with this power will have no problem playing 10-bit 4K UHD.

HEVC hardware decoding is also a consideration. The chosen GPU should be capable of decoding 10-bit HEVC with a full-function (not hybrid) hardware decoder capable of decoding high-bitrate HEVC without reducing the rendering performance of the GPU.

Up to 4GB of VRAM can be required when using normal queue sizes combined with NGU image scaling, common madVR processing and subtitles.

Considerations:

  • 4GB+ of VRAM
  • Fixed-function 10-bit HEVC decoder
  • HDMI 2.0a/b (4K 60 fps)

Minimum

These are mid-level cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using super-xbr/NGU image scaling with artifact removal and post-processing. This allows the user to take advantage of all madVR features, only compromising in algorithm quality (e.g. NGU low, medium and sometimes high) and with content with high frame rates (>25 fps).

Recommended

These are mid-high cards capable of upscaling 1080p content using NGU image doubling with artifact removal and post-processing. Fewer compromises are required at high frame rates and it is possible to use NGU high quality image doubling with some profiles. A reduction in settings may be necessary with 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts.

Performance

These are high-end cards capable of the most aggressive settings with little to no compromise playing any content. NGU very high quality with artifact removal and post-processing is possible with all profiles (SD, 720p, 1080p, 4K UHD). Possible exceptions include 4K 60 fps, interlaced 60i sources and 720p60 broadcasts, which may require a reduction in some settings.

HDR Tone Mapping

The last category are for those primarily interested in buying a card to use madVR's high-quality pixel shader HDR tone mapping. The recommended cards are capable of using tone mapping with all of the HDR enhancements enabled (with some adjustment to the unimportant chroma upscaling setting) with 4K 24 fps content. A setting or two may be need to be disabled at 4K 60 fps, but this is a minor concern given the majority of 60 fps content is limited to HDR demo clips. Lesser cards can still run madVR's tone mapping in good quality, but a few performance compromises may have to be made.

Current GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 1650
Recommended: GTX 1660 6GB / RTX 2060
Performance: RTX 2080
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1660 Ti / RTX 2060

AMD:

Minimum: RX 560 (Baffin XT, not Baffin XL; Discussion)
Recommended: RX 580 / RX 5700
Performance: RX Vega 64 / RX 5700 XT
iGPU(Minimum): RX Vega M GL / RX Vega M GH
HDR Tone Mapping: RX Vega 56 / RX 5700

Used GPUs:

Nvidia:

Minimum: GTX 960 4GB / GTX 1050 3GB / GTX 1050 Ti
Recommended: GTX 1060 6GB
Performance: GTX 1080 Ti
HDR Tone Mapping: GTX 1070 / GTX 1070 Ti

AMD:

Minimum: RX 470
Recommended: RX 480

Note: AMD Polaris cards struggle with NGU image scaling in madVR. This makes equivalent Nvidia cards the performance choice, even if benchmarks between equivalent cards can be similar.

Fan noise should also be considered when buying a GPU. There can be a lot of variability in fan quality and fan noise during video playback can be bothersome. Tests like this one for the RTX 2060 are best consulted before purchase.

On a budget and need basic 4K UHD video processing:

AMD Ryzen 3 2200G, AMD Ryzen 5 2400G, Nvidia GT 1030 2GB and Nvidia GTX 1050 2GB are all capable of playing 4K 60 fps content with madVR, but only with basic processing.

Recommended Base Settings:

  • Set madVR to its default video processing settings and/or set image upscaling to DXVA2;
  • CPU and GPU queue sizes set to 8/8 or lower;
  • 8GB of the fastest RAM you can find should be run in dual-channel mode (2 x 4GB - only applies to AMD APUs);
  • XySubFilter is not recommended to render subtitles;
  • Use of 3D LUTs or tone mapping by pixel shaders are unlikely.

6 – Optical Drive

Official 4K UHD Blu-ray drive support is offered by Pioneer and LG. Those purchasing the BDR-S11J-BK (internal), BDR-S11J-X (internal) or LG WH16NS60 (internal) must combine the drive with:

  • Windows 10;
  • 6 GB of system RAM;
  • Motherboard with HDCP 2.2, SGX and AACS 3.0;
  • Intel Kaby Lake Core i5 or i7;
  • Intel HD Graphics 630 or 640.

Note: This only applies to legal UHD Blu-ray disc playback on a HTPC (not the drives required to rip these discs or for other decryption methods).

Cyberlink PowerDVD is the only option for legal playback software of 4K UHD discs on PC. The Pioneer drives arrive packaged with PowerDVD.

PowerDVD UHD Blu-ray System Requirements

Grey Market Decryption – UHD Blu-ray Disc Requirements:


How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD "Friendly" Drives

RedFox AnyDVD (HD) and DVDFab Passkey don't require any special motherboard, CPU or other hardware beyond a "friendly" Blu-ray drive, 4K-ready graphics card and available hashed keys for select discs.

The cost of any additional playback or decryption software should be factored in with the cost of the drive.

Drive Specifications: BDXL (triple-layer support)
Playback Software: Cyberlink PowerDVD, JRiver Media Center (with Blu-ray menu support), Kodi Matrix 19.0 HDR Edition, MPC and other free media players.

7 – Power Supply

The power supply must be large enough to provide the necessary wattage for all components when under load. Other considerations include its size — it must be small enough to fit inside the chosen case. And it should be reasonably quiet — suitable for watching videos in silence.

Websites such as this are available to provide estimates of the power draw of any assembled PC. An example system is shown below:

https://s20.postimg.cc/3jnbayzel/HTP...onsumption.png

The 80 Plus certification program (Bronze to Titanium) defines the efficiency of the power supply. The higher the rating, the lower the power usage at a given wattage. Basically, this indicates how much power is wasted by the PSU from the power outlet to the PC when delivering a required amount of wattage.

More on 80 Plus certification here.

Power supplies come in three configurations. Cheaper PSUs are hard-wired with all necessary cables to connect to the most common PC components. More expensive models can be partially-modular, where there is some discretion in what accessory power cables are connected to the power supply, or fully-modular, where there is full discretion over what power cables are connected to the PSU. Fully-modular power supplies that limit power cable connectors to those you actually need tend to be the easiest to work with and can keep the interior of the case tidier with less cable clutter.

How to pick the best PC power supply

8 – Case

The case is up to preference. It must be sized appropriately for the chosen motherboard and graphics card, and fit comfortably into its end-use component rack.

Form Factors:

  • ATX (tower)
  • HTPC (horizontal)
  • mini ITX (small form factor)
  • micro ATX (slim profile)

9 – Operating System

As DirectShow software, madVR is compatible with Windows operating systems.

Recommended OS (with UHD Blu-ray disc support):

  • Windows 10
Recommended OS (for general madVR playback):

  • Windows 8.1
  • Windows 10

10 – Accessories

Recommended Accessories:


11 – Building a Silent HTPC

Because this PC will be used to watch videos and not play video games, you are unlikely to be wearing gaming headphones at any point and may care greatly about PC noise levels. With all its large moving parts and multiple fans, no PC will be truly silent, but there are several ways to lower the working decibel level of any PC build:

Silent HTPC Components:

CPU: The CPU is rarely under load in a PC that primarily plays videos, so the stock computer cooler should spin at idle speeds during normal operation. If you find the stock cooler is a tad noisy, even at idle, aftermarket CPU coolers are fairly cheap and are almost always more silent than the stock cooler.

GPU: It is a good idea to purchase a GPU with multiple, large fans that can keep the GPU cool under load as well as provide some additional overhead for overclocking without increasing GPU temperatures too much. Choosing a GPU with larger fans is a way to keep the GPU quieter, as larger fans are more efficient at cooling than smaller fans and will usually spin a slower rate.

Custom fan curves created with overclocking software such as MSI Afterburner are the most basic way to reduce GPU noise by improving upon the factory fan curve, which is often tilted towards keeping GPU temperatures as low as possible with unnecessarily aggressive fan speeds for given temperatures. With some trial-and-error, custom fan curves can be constructed that maintain stable operating temperatures under a heavy load with a constant reduced fan speed: Example: GTX 1060 6GB MSI Afterburner Custom Fan Curve.

Tip: MSI Afterburner has options to display the GPU fan speed and temperature on the Windows Taskbar for easy monitoring. Enable these options under the Monitoring tab. Then right-click on the Taskbar, select Taskbar settings and click Select which icons appear on the Taskbar.

MSI Afterburner Tray Icons: GPU Fan Speed and Temperature Indicators

Controlling Other System Fans with SpeedFan (excluding the PSU fan)

Power Supply: The power supply is an often-overlooked source of PC noise. A cheap and inefficient power supply will produce more noise than a GPU by throwing away high amounts of power from the wall outlet in the form of excess heat. This buildup of heat often causes the PSU fan to spin loudly to cool the PSU, and most cheaper power supplies are equipped with low-quality fans with aggressive built-in fan curves. Obnoxious PSU fan noise can sometimes be misidentified as GPU fan noise because the PSU fan will typically ramp up at the same time as when GPU temperatures rise and the GPU fan RPMs increase. It is possible to differentiate between the two fans by carefully monitoring the GPU fan speed after a high load is removed to see if the noise is still audible after the GPU fans have throttled down.

Purchasing an efficient power supply (Gold to Platinum Certified) is not a bad idea if you want to keep the PC silent as possible. Efficient power supplies generate less wasted power, resulting in less heat and often have more intelligent fan controllers (semi-passive modes) that turn off the PSU fan at lower temperatures and use more relaxed fan curves. Some of the more expensive PSUs are completely silent and fanless by using passive cooling. To keep PSU efficiency high, it is advised to purchase a power supply with slightly more wattage than you need or that is recommended by online power supply calculators to keep all power usage well under the maximum available wattage.

List of Recommended PSUs for Every Budget (Ultra High-End to Budget Models)

Case: The last consideration is where all of the components will be stored. You can go in two directions in purchasing a silent case: Buy one with sound dampening material to keep as much noise as possible inside the case or buy a larger case with good airflow to lower noise levels by keeping the internal components cooler.

Soundproof cases are mostly limited to tower or mid-tower form factors and often use sound dampening insulation on the case walls to lower decibel levels by keeping reflected sound inside the case. These cases can be more expensive than regular PC cases, but can make for excellent HTPC cases if you can live with the tower form factor.

Quiet PC Cases at Newegg.com

A more practical way to lower PC noise levels is to choose a case design that has good spacing between the system components, well-placed ventilation holes to exhaust hot air and flexible options for installing case fans. This combination will keep internal temperatures as low as possible by maximizing airflow in and out of the case. The best case airflow is achieved by adding case fans, placing one or more intake fans on the front of the case to draw in cold air and a case fan at the back to exhaust built-up heat to the case rear. Most case designs pre-install a single exhaust fan at the rear, but require aftermarket installation of any front intake fans. As with GPUs, larger case fans (120mm or larger) are more efficient at moving air than smaller fans and will be more silent by spinning at lower RPMs.

How to Manage Your PC’s Fans for Optimal Airflow and Cooling

Summary: Making the Best Silent PC Gaming Build in 2019

Example: Passively-Cooled & Completely Fanless PC

Putting It All Together – Building Your System

Now that the components of a system have been outlined, it is time to build one for yourself!

PCPartPicker is a handy tool for experimenting with various hardware configurations. Thousands of components are found in its database from the most reputable brands in the PC industry linked directly to popular online parts sites. By creating a user account, you can create multiple parts lists and even purchase individual components directly from the vendor.

When attempting any build with PCPartPicker, I would recommend starting with the case then the CPU, ending with the power supply. The compatibility checker will ensure each part added to the list is compatible with the form factor, inputs and chipsets of the existing components.

Example madVR 4K HTPC Build

Ripping UHD Blu-ray Discs with MakeMKV

The simplest way to create UHD HDR10 media suitable for HTPC use is by ripping UHD Blu-ray discs. MakeMKV has made this process fairly simple. With an UHD "friendly" drive, MakeMKV can read the disc, as long as a decryption key for the disc is known, and rip the appropriate video, audio and subtitle tracks into an .mkv container. This is all lossless. The relevant tracks are simply packaged into an .mkv ready for playback by any media player, free or paid. If storage is an issue, the file can be compressed by software such as StaxRip.

UHD Blu-ray disc ripping requires:


How to Install Old Firmware into New UHD Drives

International UHD Drive Sales & Firmware Flashing Service

Ultra-High-Definition Blu-ray Disc (UHD-BD) Backup & Playback Guidance

Heads up - Support for Official LG UHD Drives Coming in 2019

Do not update the firmware of legacy UHD drives or it will no longer work. UHD "friendly" drives are drives produced for normal BR discs (so, AACS 1.0) but with BDXL (three/four layer disc) capabilities. These "friendly" drives may be less predictable than the recommended official UHD Blu-ray drives at reliably reading all UHD Blu-ray discs and the odd disc may fail to read. Both types of drives require older firmware versions (either flashed or factory) to unlock the ability to read and rip UHD discs.

The downloaded hashed key file must be installed into the MakeMKV data directory (which is set in the preferences - NOT the program directory). MakeMKV v1.12.3 added the option to update this file automatically with an Internet connection. The download link is updated weekly, sometimes several times a week. Those requiring manual updates should bookmark the above link and return back regularly. The hashed key method is different than the general crack of AACS 1.0 used to rip 1080p Blu-rays.

There are often many versions of each UHD Blu-ray disc, which cover many regions. If your disc is not supported, it is possible to take the dump file created when an attempt is made to open the UHD disc and send it to MakeMKV. That disc will be included in the next hashed key file update, so the disc can then be ripped. This means the creation of hashed keys is virtually infinite.

MakeMKV UHD Blu-ray FAQ

Tip: Set the minimum title length to 3600 seconds (60 minutes) and a default language preference in Preferences to ease the task of identifying the correct video, audio and subtitle tracks.

Other UHD Blu-ray Ripping Software:


External NAS Storage

Data storage is a significant concern when using digital media. The storage of 4K UHD media, in particular, will consume a large amount of hard drive space (measured in terabytes, or TBs). This data storage can be managed with cheap USB external hard drives, but such hard drives do not offer near the same level of reliability and protection as Network Attached Storage (NAS).

Average File Sizes of Current Rips:

  • DVD: 8GB (avg);
  • Blu-ray: 20GB-40GB;
  • UHD Blu-ray: 50GB-85GB.

All NAS offer some form of backup redundancy (RAID), where data is spread across multiple drives, sometimes allowing for the replacement of failed drives without upsetting the performance of the rest.

There are two ways to go about creating a NAS server:


Pre-built NAS devices are pre-loaded with proprietary NAS software. It is possible to take any existing drive array in a PC and turn it into a NAS drive pool by using software RAID.

RAID software can be configured to several RAID levels that provide a balance of available storage space versus protection against data loss. RAID calculators are available to calculate the available capacity of each RAID level and tolerance to drive failure.

Example DIY Builds Using Popular RAID Software:

unRAID NAS Server

SnapRAID NAS Server / Windows Media Manager

Windows Software – Media Front-Ends

Finally, the following media front-ends can be used to enhance the experience of video playback by organizing your media collection and providing detailed metadata and artwork for each title. Some front-ends also offer content from add-ons that can be played through the media player and enhanced by madVR.

Media front-ends with integrated madVR video players:


Media front-ends that support external players:


ymarker 03-13-2016 04:47 PM

tldr; GPU nvidia 950/960 with any recent mid level CPU would suffice for 4k until the new gfx cards come out later this year.

Onkyoman 03-13-2016 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ymarker (Post 42365601)
tldr; GPU nvidia 950/960 with any recent mid level CPU would suffice for 4k until the new gfx cards come out later this year.

Thanks for your input...

Sure, I can agree a 950/960 is adequate for 4K madVR use. However, those who want to use NNEDI3 image doubling with post-processing debanding and image sharpening will be disappointed.

It has been proven by other users the GTX 960 is not powerful enough for NNEDI3 image doubling+. You would require a card such as a GTX 980 Ti. Even then, you could use more power. And there are still new madVR features on the horizon to further tax your GPU.

VBB 03-14-2016 10:44 AM

It has to be said, though, that NNEDI3 image doubling is not really necessary. With my GTX 960 I can do 1080 -> 4K super-xbr + SuperRes (4) chroma, super-xbr + SuperRes (4) luma/chroma doubling, with power to spare. NNEDI3 is just too much of a power hog to be worthwhile, in my opinion. Having said that, I'm still looking forward to the new video cards this year.

rckrzy1 03-14-2016 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBB (Post 42381825)
It has to be said, though, that NNEDI3 image doubling is not really necessary. With my GTX 960 I can do 1080 -> 4K super-xbr + SuperRes (4) chroma, super-xbr + SuperRes (4) luma/chroma doubling, with power to spare. NNEDI3 is just too much of a power hog to be worthwhile, in my opinion. Having said that, I'm still looking forward to the new video cards this year.

I'm running 2 R9 280X in crossfire, I'm only running a 2K monitor but it does well. Maxed out on GTA5.

Onkyoman 03-14-2016 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VBB (Post 42381825)
It has to be said, though, that NNEDI3 image doubling is not really necessary. With my GTX 960 I can do 1080 -> 4K super-xbr + SuperRes (4) chroma, super-xbr + SuperRes (4) luma/chroma doubling, with power to spare. NNEDI3 is just too much of a power hog to be worthwhile, in my opinion. Having said that, I'm still looking forward to the new video cards this year.

super-xbr is adequate for clean sources. But it will introduce ringing (it rings more than any other algorithm in madVR, I believe). This is less of a problem when super-xbr is combined with SuperRes.

NNEDI3 doesn't really ring at all and can correct aliasing and ringing in the source. It depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.

10k 03-15-2016 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 42390001)
super-xbr is adequate for clean sources. But it will introduce ringing (it rings more than any other algorithm in madVR, I believe). This is less of a problem when super-xbr is combined with SuperRes.

NNEDI3 doesn't really ring at all and can correct aliasing and ringing in the source. It depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.

I'm only rolling with a gtx950 in my setup, so I have to use superxbr and/or lanczos3, luma doubling, w/ debanding and dithering. This gives pretty good image quality but importantly, I have my power and fan profile set up so that the gtx950 is silent (around 300-400rpm on the fan), no matter the source content.

NNEID3 looks great but you need a leaf blower to really utilize it. I'm hoping that the Pascal cards will offer gtx970 level performance in near silence.

Gradius2 08-05-2016 04:31 PM

As for internal drives: WH14NS40 and WH16NS40 are both capable of reading 4k UHD blu-ray discs.

You will need TPM v2 too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

crestron 08-06-2016 07:13 PM

hi,
I want to know
madVR Whether Support 'SLI' ?

Onkyoman 08-07-2016 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crestron (Post 45872073)
hi,
I want to know
madVR Whether Support 'SLI' ?

No, I don't believe so.

crestron 08-07-2016 05:28 PM

I test GTX1070 X 2 SLI madvr 0.90.23 , it worked , two GPU be used , GPU load , GPU memory, GPU clock in GPU-Z, OS is win10pro.

Onkyoman 08-08-2016 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crestron (Post 45890745)
I test GTX1070 X 2 SLI madvr 0.90.23 , it worked , two GPU be used , GPU load , GPU memory, GPU clock in GPU-Z, OS is win10pro.

Ok, good to know. I imagine you could max out your settings with two cards?

121dj 08-16-2016 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradius2 (Post 45850137)
As for internal drives: WH14NS40 and WH16NS40 are both capable of reading 4k UHD blu-ray discs.

You will need TPM v2 too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Platform_Module

I'd like to learn more about doing this however I haven't seen any simple info on putting tpm on a drive...

Sent from my E6883 using Tapatalk

sutton8 08-17-2016 04:37 PM

Can anyone confirm that the gtx 1060 will do passthrough of Atmos/DTSx? The answer should be yes but that is proving difficult to confirm.

OzHDHT 08-17-2016 11:31 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sutton8 (Post 46130657)
Can anyone confirm that the gtx 1060 will do passthrough of Atmos/DTSx? The answer should be yes but that is proving difficult to confirm.

Just replaced a GTX 980 in HTPC with a 1070 yesterday. It has the same format pass-through capabilities with its HDMI as the 980 does, just as it should.

billqs 09-30-2016 01:05 PM

My computer in the home theater is using a GTX 960. I'm not currently using madVR as I was letting my JVC projector do the upscaling (I have a Samsung UHD Bluray for 4k playback.) Would it be better to use a lesser setting in madVR with the 960 or try to get hold of a GTX 1060 or Radeon RX480 to allow more NNEDI3 processing?

Onkyoman 10-03-2016 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billqs (Post 47164153)
My computer in the home theater is using a GTX 960. I'm not currently using madVR as I was letting my JVC projector do the upscaling (I have a Samsung UHD Bluray for 4k playback.) Would it be better to use a lesser setting in madVR with the 960 or try to get hold of a GTX 1060 or Radeon RX480 to allow more NNEDI3 processing?

Use super-xbr with SuperRes when image doubling and you won't notice the difference. NNEDI3 is a waste of money.

OzHDHT 10-03-2016 06:07 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47231801)
Use super-xbr with SuperRes when image doubling and you won't notice the difference. NNEDI3 is a waste of money.

You might want to qualify what display you're using before making such broad assertions.

billqs 10-03-2016 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47231801)
Use super-xbr with SuperRes when image doubling and you won't notice the difference. NNEDI3 is a waste of money.

Would it be possible to hit super-xbr with SuperRes and image doubling all on a GTX960?

Onkyoman 10-04-2016 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billqs (Post 47232961)
Would it be possible to hit super-xbr with SuperRes and image doubling all on a GTX960?

Yes, try the guide in my signature. The last section has a number of sample settings.

RapalloAV 10-04-2016 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47246265)
Yes, try the guide in my signature. The last section has a number of sample settings.


Onkyoman, not sure but I think you might be warner on the "other" forum.
Ive come to you as you really seam to know your stuff.
I may have asked you on the "other" forum but just want to re check here as Im not 100% happy with what Im doing.


I do use madvr with JRiver, and have the 1080 video card. My display is the JVD X9000 proj.


Ive always had a motion issue and why its not perfect is as follows....
As we have a film club I play a mix of content before the start of the feature, could be 24, 25, 30, 60, etc etc...
As the JVC has a massive slow sync, Ive been playing everything at 60Hz so I don't get the start of each new film showing a longggg black as the proj syncs to each refresh rate.
I have been using Smooth Motion with everything set at 60Hz but the blur is horrible on motion.


Is there a better way that you can think of doing what Im trying to do without getting the slow long refresh rate changes?

I think Smooth Motion makes everything worse for the added blur it introduces! I have tried turning it off and its better, but the judder then isn't nice, that's probably the 3.2 pull-down since Im on 60Hz, is that correct?

Would setting everything to 50Hz be better than 60Hz?

I know what Im doing isn't perfect and I would much prefer to play with the correct refresh rates, but the long sync of the JVCs are shocking! And its worse to get up to 15 secs missing from the start of shorts/trailers as the refresh rates change. I just wish displays could do instant refresh rate changes!

dwaleke 10-04-2016 03:55 PM

Try SVP.

RapalloAV 10-04-2016 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwaleke (Post 47254833)
Try SVP.


Ive never ever heard of that and just did a search, very interesting.
How does this differ to Smooth Motion on madvr?

dwaleke 10-04-2016 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RapalloAV (Post 47254937)
Ive never ever heard of that and just did a search, very interesting.
How does this differ to Smooth Motion on madvr?

It's more advanced. I believe madvr does basic frame blending. Svp is real frame interpolation.

Onkyoman 10-05-2016 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RapalloAV (Post 47254937)
Ive never ever heard of that and just did a search, very interesting.
How does this differ to Smooth Motion on madvr?

SVP will turn film into video, just like the similar setting on most LED TVs (Clear Motion, etc.). Yuck.

If you can't playback content at its native refresh rate, you have two options: live with 3/2 pulldown or use Smooth Motion. Personally, I prefer 3/2 pulldown and don't think it is all that far off true 24p playback, which is also laggy and less than perfect.

Making film look perfect in motion will always be a challenge.

billqs 10-13-2016 07:45 AM

Well, I updated my card from a GTX960 to a GTX1070 so that I could use NNEDI3 for image doubling/etc. (I always use less for chroma.) I am having too long of render times so that I am dropping many frames. I followed the Guide with the standards for a "High" PC but am having no luck. I am still playing with settings.

From reading the Guide over on Kodi I would have thought the 1070 would be stout enough to carry heavier processing (God knows it cost a king's ransom.) Any suggestions? I am trying to run 4k 24fps. My computer is an ASUS Z170 with i5 6600 processor, 16 GB memory, Windows 7 64, the GTX 1070 and my display is my RS500 JVC Projector.

Thanks for any help.

dwaleke 10-13-2016 10:40 AM

Make sure power savings is not enabled in the nvidia control panel for your player application.

Onkyoman 10-13-2016 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billqs (Post 47447761)
Well, I updated my card from a GTX960 to a GTX1070 so that I could use NNEDI3 for image doubling/etc. (I always use less for chroma.) I am having too long of render times so that I am dropping many frames. I followed the Guide with the standards for a "High" PC but am having no luck. I am still playing with settings.

From reading the Guide over on Kodi I would have thought the 1070 would be stout enough to carry heavier processing (God knows it cost a king's ransom.) Any suggestions? I am trying to run 4k 24fps. My computer is an ASUS Z170 with i5 6600 processor, 16 GB memory, Windows 7 64, the GTX 1070 and my display is my RS500 JVC Projector.

Thanks for any help.

Use super-xbr for chroma upscaling to free up resources for luma doubling. Avoid chroma doubling, as it is a waste of resources.

OzHDHT 10-13-2016 05:31 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47463257)
Use super-xbr for chroma upscaling to free up resources for luma doubling. Avoid chroma doubling, as it is a waste of resources.

You give this advice again, as the this thread's creator, however we still don't know what display you base your comments on. Both the poster and myself have JVC RS series projectors with 4K e-shift for example.. Can you clarify this for us as it makes a lot bigger difference if someone is giving advice based owning a 65" 4K panel vs say 11.5ft CIH setup with a 4K projector. If as Billqs poses, Onkyoman you are indeed Warner who wrote the Kodi guide then I'm a bit perplexed as to why you'd write off NNEDI3 here and not modify the guide to reflect your thoughts more accurately - so perhaps you aren't? Also, wondering if @madshi himself endorses the set up guide on the Kodi Forums? I've also not heard him state NNEDI3 as being a waste of time in any of his posts in the projector threads I'm involved in btw.
For me with the new JVC Z1/4500 on the way with it's full 4K panel, I'll definitely be doing some even more critical testing and tweaking with MadVR which I look forward to.

billqs 10-13-2016 05:53 PM

Thanks for your help. I went with your settings from the Kodi guide for high end. I did lower Chroma Upscaling to super-xbr but with NNEDI3 64 for both both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling + SuperRes 3 I was getting around 55ms render times. I had to lower it down to NNEDI3 32 and I think I had to lower down the Quadruple to NNEDI. I followed the guide's advice about BiCubic 150 for the Image Downscale down from Jinc where I had it and I finally got the render time dependably around 30-34ms and quit dropping frames. I disabled Chroma doubling as it said to in the Kodi guide.

I ended up with a very detailed but very overcooked looking picture. Maybe the Superres on both doubling and quadrupling was too much? I'm sure I can continue to work with the settings to improve.

Onkyoman 10-14-2016 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzHDHT (Post 47463377)
You give this advice again, as the this thread's creator, however we still don't know what display you base your comments on. Both the poster and myself have JVC RS series projectors with 4K e-shift for example.. Can you clarify this for us as it makes a lot bigger difference if someone is giving advice based owning a 65" 4K panel vs say 11.5ft CIH setup with a 4K projector. If as Billqs poses, Onkyoman you are indeed Warner who wrote the Kodi guide then I'm a bit perplexed as to why you'd write off NNEDI3 here and not modify the guide to reflect your thoughts more accurately - so perhaps you aren't? Also, wondering if @madshi himself endorses the set up guide on the Kodi Forums? I've also not heard him state NNEDI3 as being a waste of time in any of his posts in the projector threads I'm involved in btw.
For me with the new JVC Z1/4500 on the way with it's full 4K panel, I'll definitely be doing some even more critical testing and tweaking with MadVR which I look forward to.

I'm not saying NNEDI3 is a waste of time. I'm saying it is overkill with chroma upscaling and you aren't likely to notice the difference.

For 1080p -> 4K upscaling, image doubling with SuperRes will likely produce the best result. This image doubling could come in the form of super-xbr or NNEDI3. NNEDI3 is the better of the two, but the difference will be small.

If you have unlimited processing resources, set everything to NNEDI3. If not, don't feel like you are missing out on image quality by using lesser settings.

Onkyoman 10-14-2016 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billqs (Post 47463881)
Thanks for your help. I went with your settings from the Kodi guide for high end. I did lower Chroma Upscaling to super-xbr but with NNEDI3 64 for both both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling + SuperRes 3 I was getting around 55ms render times. I had to lower it down to NNEDI3 32 and I think I had to lower down the Quadruple to NNEDI. I followed the guide's advice about BiCubic 150 for the Image Downscale down from Jinc where I had it and I finally got the render time dependably around 30-34ms and quit dropping frames. I disabled Chroma doubling as it said to in the Kodi guide.

I ended up with a very detailed but very overcooked looking picture. Maybe the Superres on both doubling and quadrupling was too much? I'm sure I can continue to work with the settings to improve.

Image doubling is more important than image quadrupling. I'd dump image quadrupling and stick with image doubling.

Your eyes are the best guide in what looks good. Try lowering the value of SuperRes to 1 or 2.

MisterXDTV 10-14-2016 10:40 AM

I have a question guys: I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for HEVC HW 10-bit decoding.

Right now I have a 1080p monitor/tv but let's say I will have a 4K screen in the future. Is it true that 2GB of VRAM is not enough for true 4K 10-bit playback? I read this somewhere

Do I need 4GB of VRAM?

I'm waiting for GTX 1050 (Ti) and I want to know if more VRAM makes a difference

billqs 10-14-2016 12:53 PM

One thing I may be doing which may be a mistake, I haven't gotten to set up all the different profiles, I've just configured what appear to be the best settings that my card can bear in each of the settings in MadVR. Therefore, under Image Doubling, I have both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling checked. Image Doubling is checked for at least 2x and Image Quadrupling is checked for at least 3X. Is this correct?

My understanding would be if I have a 1080p source, then the logic under Image Doubling would kick in and Double the image to my 4k display. I assumed what happened when I had a 720p source was that image quadrupling would be selected under the 3x or higher. But technically, is it also 2x or greater than image which would call image doubling up as well?

That might explain some of the reason the card seems to be slightly under-delivering.

Onkyoman 10-14-2016 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billqs (Post 47482201)
One thing I may be doing which may be a mistake, I haven't gotten to set up all the different profiles, I've just configured what appear to be the best settings that my card can bear in each of the settings in MadVR. Therefore, under Image Doubling, I have both Image Doubling and Image Quadrupling checked. Image Doubling is checked for at least 2x and Image Quadrupling is checked for at least 3X. Is this correct?

My understanding would be if I have a 1080p source, then the logic under Image Doubling would kick in and Double the image to my 4k display. I assumed what happened when I had a 720p source was that image quadrupling would be selected under the 3x or higher. But technically, is it also 2x or greater than image which would call image doubling up as well?

That might explain some of the reason the card seems to be slightly under-delivering.

Make a profile for each resolution and possibly different source fps. This is covered in the guide.

2160p: NNEDI3 chroma upscaling with sharpen edges + AR + AB (image enhancements)

720p/1080p: super-xbr chroma upscaling with NNEDI3 luma doubling and SuperRes 1-3 (upscaling refinement).

It sounds like you need to experiment with SuperRes if the image is too harsh/detailed.

Onkyoman 10-14-2016 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV (Post 47478417)
I have a question guys: I'm looking to upgrade my graphics card for HEVC HW 10-bit decoding.

Right now I have a 1080p monitor/tv but let's say I will have a 4K screen in the future. Is it true that 2GB of VRAM is not enough for true 4K 10-bit playback? I read this somewhere

Do I need 4GB of VRAM?

I'm waiting for GTX 1050 (Ti) and I want to know if more VRAM makes a difference

I am under the belief 2GB is enough VRAM because of the low fps (24-30). I would go with 4GB in the event high fps content becomes available (50-60 fps).

MisterXDTV 10-14-2016 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47482865)
I am under the belief 2GB is enough VRAM because of the low fps (24-30). I would go with 4GB in the event high fps content becomes available (50-60 fps).

That was my idea too, but you never know maybe it could be worth the small difference in price and get a 4GB card. But of course I would have preferred to save money as I'm not getting the card for gaming.

The non-Ti version is more than enough in power for me but I don't know about VRAM

LexInVA 10-14-2016 05:27 PM

VRAM has little bearing on video decoding these days, cause it's usually done by the video decoder ASIC and not CUDA/shader decoding like it was in the old days. Nvidia killed that off several years ago. Encoding/transcoding, on the other hand, will see performance increases with VRAM increases and madVR is software that re-renders video frames to your liking, so it too does better with larger amounts of memory. IMO, there is no reason not to buy the upcoming GTX 1050TI, unless you simply cannot afford it or it won't fit in your case. I am waiting for the compact, single-slot version that was pictured in the leaks, yet we only see longer, two-slot cards with twin cooling for over-clocking enthusiasts, so I am not sure when we'll get what was leaked.

OzHDHT 10-15-2016 03:07 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47477865)
I'm not saying NNEDI3 is a waste of time. I'm saying it is overkill with chroma upscaling and you aren't likely to notice the difference.

For 1080p -> 4K upscaling, image doubling with SuperRes will likely produce the best result. This image doubling could come in the form of super-xbr or NNEDI3. NNEDI3 is the better of the two, but the difference will be small.

If you have unlimited processing resources, set everything to NNEDI3. If not, don't feel like you are missing out on image quality by using lesser settings.

I need to once again reiterate that if I'm sitting say just on 11 feet from my 11.5 foot wide screen, I'm going to have a lot better chance of perceiving differences between NNEDI3 and Super-xbr in Chroma Upscale than having any chance of doing the same in my living room on my 65" Z9 panel - why I don't even use the spare nvidia equipped Gigabyte Brix mini pc(left over from another location) to view anything and just use Plex.. The large format 4K projector screen viewing scenario is of major relevance to myself and Billqs and why we are both pushing our 1070's get the highest possible settings. I've watched MadVR evolve no from close to its beginnings and have seen the steady increases in PQ the new processing techniques have brought along the way.

baniels 10-28-2016 06:38 AM

Noticed something recently and would like some input.

Full HTPC in my signature, but in summary: Win10 Pro, Jriver, i5-4670k, GTX-1060 SC Gaming (6GB). I have a Vizio M70-d3, and I'm outputting video directly from the GPU (while audio goes from the iGPU to my old receiver).

I setup MadVR using the Kodi forum guide from @Onkyoman signature and OP. I used the part of the guide several posts down, starting with "Let's repeat this process, this time assuming the display resolution is 3840 x 2160p (4K UHD). Two graphics cards will be used for reference. A Medium-level card such as the GTX 960, and a High-level card similar to a GTX 1080."

For the most part I used the GTX 960 settings. At this point I can't remember if I made any substantial changes toward the 1080 settings, but I think in an effort to solve this issue I am pretty much back at the 960 settings.

On certain content types, namely TV shows that are 30 (or 29.97) fps, whether 1080p or 720p, I get dropped frames constantly. At least a few per second. Using a little android remote system monitor I could see while viewing this content that the GPU core was running at 96-99%. For 1080p24 content it hovered in the range of 85-92%. Clearly I'm taxing the GPU.

I tried every manner of knocking back settings with no luck, until last night. I unchecked SuperRes from upscaling refinement. Boom - problem went away, GPU usage % dropped to mid 80's and all was good.

Previously I had only basic profiles in MadVR... SD, 720p, 1080p, 2160p. I created another filter as the guide suggests for 1080p60, and one for 720p60 and unchecked SuperRes for these.

My questions are...
  1. Does this make sense?
  2. Should my 1060 have this sort of issue with settings proposed for a 960?
  3. Am I better off sacrificing something other than SuperRes to bring the processing time down?


Here is some MedifInfo data for one of the files in question:

Spoiler!


Thanks!

Onkyoman 10-28-2016 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baniels (Post 47783177)
Noticed something recently and would like some input.

Full HTPC in my signature, but in summary: Win10 Pro, Jriver, i5-4670k, GTX-1060 SC Gaming (6GB). I have a Vizio M70-d3, and I'm outputting video directly from the GPU (while audio goes from the iGPU to my old receiver).

I setup MadVR using the Kodi forum guide from @Onkyoman signature and OP. I used the part of the guide several posts down, starting with "Let's repeat this process, this time assuming the display resolution is 3840 x 2160p (4K UHD). Two graphics cards will be used for reference. A Medium-level card such as the GTX 960, and a High-level card similar to a GTX 1080."

For the most part I used the GTX 960 settings. At this point I can't remember if I made any substantial changes toward the 1080 settings, but I think in an effort to solve this issue I am pretty much back at the 960 settings.

On certain content types, namely TV shows that are 30 (or 29.97) fps, whether 1080p or 720p, I get dropped frames constantly. At least a few per second. Using a little android remote system monitor I could see while viewing this content that the GPU core was running at 96-99%. For 1080p24 content it hovered in the range of 85-92%. Clearly I'm taxing the GPU.

I tried every manner of knocking back settings with no luck, until last night. I unchecked SuperRes from upscaling refinement. Boom - problem went away, GPU usage % dropped to mid 80's and all was good.

Previously I had only basic profiles in MadVR... SD, 720p, 1080p, 2160p. I created another filter as the guide suggests for 1080p60, and one for 720p60 and unchecked SuperRes for these.

My questions are...
  1. Does this make sense?
  2. Should my 1060 have this sort of issue with settings proposed for a 960?
  3. Am I better off sacrificing something other than SuperRes to bring the processing time down?


Here is some MedifInfo data for one of the files in question:

Spoiler!


Thanks!

Those are guesses not hard wired, tested settings. It may be that these settings are too aggressive for some content (> 24 fps) as 24 fps is the example frame rate. This is news to me that the 1060 would struggle with these settings.

Try setting the 30 fps settings to ordered dithering and Bicubic chroma upscaling. That might make room for SuperRes.

tecram3 10-30-2016 09:56 AM

new graphic card for madvr
 
Hello.

Recently, I had replace my HTPC due to a broken CPU. In the past, I struggled with my fanless AMD HD6570 when I switch to madvr.

My new config is i5 6400, Z170 microATX mobo, 8GB DDR4 RAM, 64 GB SSD hard disk and a HDR4400 sat card. HDMI mobo port is connected to a 1080p Pioneer plasma. I consider to buy a 4K OLED UHD in future.

I like SVP (even 120Hz output), and with the new config, I can play 4k content with the i5 6400, and media is smooth with appropiate SVP config. Problem is when switch with madvr again. iGPU Intel HD530 is not enough.

I would like to buy a new card able to trust with madvr. My doubt is AMD or NVIDIA. I consider RX470 or GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1060 (3Gb or 6GB?). I always had AMD configs, but now with Intel, I consider Nvidia (I never used CUDA features with madvr). I have some doubts:

1) 23,976 and how accurate is frequency rate on NVIDIA? I have read some problems with frequency rate with NVIDIA. iGPU Intel is fine in that point, and AMD has good opinions in that point. Is really important that if I use SVP? Or this is too a problem with 60Hz?

2) I actually have a 1080p panel, if I reproduce 4K content, madvr works to downscale and work with 1080p? In future I consider to buy a 4K panel, what card is more appropiate for that?

3) Would I have enough power with i5 6400 and one of these cards to play with SVP+madvr?

Thanks.

Onkyoman 10-30-2016 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecram3 (Post 47826481)
Hello.

Recently, I had replace my HTPC due to a broken CPU. In the past, I struggled with my fanless AMD HD6570 when I switch to madvr.

My new config is i5 6400, Z170 microATX mobo, 8GB DDR4 RAM, 64 GB SSD hard disk and a HDR4400 sat card. HDMI mobo port is connected to a 1080p Pioneer plasma. I consider to buy a 4K OLED UHD in future.

I like SVP (even 120Hz output), and with the new config, I can play 4k content with the i5 6400, and media is smooth with appropiate SVP config. Problem is when switch with madvr again. iGPU Intel HD530 is not enough.

I would like to buy a new card able to trust with madvr. My doubt is AMD or NVIDIA. I consider RX470 or GTX 1050 Ti or GTX 1060 (3Gb or 6GB?). I always had AMD configs, but now with Intel, I consider Nvidia (I never used CUDA features with madvr). I have some doubts:

1) 23,976 and how accurate is frequency rate on NVIDIA? I have read some problems with frequency rate with NVIDIA. iGPU Intel is fine in that point, and AMD has good opinions in that point. Is really important that if I use SVP? Or this is too a problem with 60Hz?

2) I actually have a 1080p panel, if I reproduce 4K content, madvr works to downscale and work with 1080p? In future I consider to buy a 4K panel, what card is more appropiate for that?

3) Would I have enough power with i5 6400 and one of these cards to play with SVP+madvr?

Thanks.

1) 23.976 is not that accurate with Nvidia cards. I get one frame drop/repeat every three and a half minutes. SVP doesn't matter in this case because it is outputting at 60 Hz not 24p.

2) 1080p panels don't require a high end GPU. I am using a GTX 750 Ti with success. However, downscaling 4K to 1080p requires a more powerful card to use aggressive settings. Given the lack of 4K media, this should not matter today. But you should invest in a card that can hardware decode HEVC in the future.

3) SVP + madVR at 1080p would be easy with anything above a GTX 750 Ti. Again, to be future-proof, I would invest in a new card with HEVC decoding.

tecram3 10-30-2016 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47827713)
1) 23.976 is not that accurate with Nvidia cards. I get one frame drop/repeat every three and a half minutes. SVP doesn't matter in this case because it is outputting at 60 Hz not 24p.

Would you recommend an AMD card for that aspect? There is any reason to prefer a Nvidia card even so?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onkyoman (Post 47827713)
3) SVP + madVR at 1080p would be easy with anything above a GTX 750 Ti. Again, to be future-proof, I would invest in a new card with HEVC decoding.

I wonder that GTX1060 is more powerful than a GTX1060(3G), more powerful than a RX470, and then GTX1050Ti. Is that correct? There is a special feature to be superior to AMD (madvr terms), or vice versa?

Onkyoman 10-31-2016 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecram3 (Post 47828081)
Would you recommend an AMD card for that aspect? There is any reason to prefer a Nvidia card even so?



I wonder that GTX1060 is more powerful than a GTX1060(3G), more powerful than a RX470, and then GTX1050Ti. Is that correct? There is a special feature to be superior to AMD (madvr terms), or vice versa?

I don't know anything about AMD. Nor do I know which GPU is the most powerful. You'll have to look at reviews and benchmarks to determine this.

JeffR1 10-31-2016 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecram3 (Post 47828081)
Would you recommend an AMD card for that aspect? There is any reason to prefer a Nvidia card even so?



I wonder that GTX1060 is more powerful than a GTX1060(3G), more powerful than a RX470, and then GTX1050Ti. Is that correct? There is a special feature to be superior to AMD (madvr terms), or vice versa?

Basically the more cores the better and the more processing power there is to run Madvr.
The RX470 has 2048 for example.
https://www.amd.com/en-gb/products/g.../radeon-rx-470

While the GTX1060 (3G) (Three gigabytes of memory) has 1152 cores.
http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10se...force-gtx-1060.

To my knowledge there isn't a card yet that will run Madvr at max settings.
Also know that the more cores there are, the more expensive the cards get _ generally speaking.

Madvr doesn't care if you use AMD or NVIDIA.

Chroma upscaling is the one that eats up the cards and the more resolution you have, the more pixels there are to deal with.

I have a now older GTX980 upscaling to 4K, running Madvr and Dmitri Render.
It's running at around 75 to 80% of its capacity _ it has 2048 cores, do give you some idea of a reference number.

gorman42 11-03-2016 11:16 AM

On Doom 9 a guy has compiled a sheet with comparison of madVR run at different levels with different cards. The indication to look for are Tflops, not cores (as cores performance depends on the overall architecture).

RigorousXChris 11-11-2016 11:39 AM

I currently have a computer with an i7 and GTX 980ti SLI, and wanted to get people's opinion on what they believe looks better.
I have a 120'' Screen with a 4k Image Shift JVC projector (x750).

Would a 1080p blu-ray using MadVR upscaled to 4k look better than the UHD 4k Blu-ray version?

dwaleke 11-11-2016 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RigorousXChris (Post 48111665)
I currently have a computer with an i7 and GTX 980ti SLI, and wanted to get people's opinion on what they believe looks better.
I have a 120'' Screen with a 4k Image Shift JVC projector (x750).

Would a 1080p blu-ray using MadVR upscaled to 4k look better than the UHD 4k Blu-ray version?

Most uhd 4k blurays are 2k upscales.

However they use a wider color range (rec 2020) and hdr.

So it'll depend on the movie. But hdr adds more than the resolution bump imo.

Real 4k stuff would look better.

Movies with poor hdr and colors are not much better than 1080p bluray. So madvr.

Madvr for both will be great once the protection is cracked and we can play the movies through the pc.

tecram3 11-17-2016 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR1 (Post 47859881)
Basically the more cores the better and the more processing power there is to run Madvr.
The rx470 has 2048 cores

While the GTX1060 (3G) (Three gigabytes of memory) has 1152 cores.


According to that. Rx470 (2048 cores) outperforms gtx1070 (1920 cores) with madvr ? And rx480 (2304 cores) is near gtx 1080 (2560 cores)? Always attending madvr performance...

If amd outputs more exactly 23.976 and has better performance/money is a better bet?

Garmon42. Do you remember the link? I can't find it.

sonichart 11-17-2016 08:25 AM

Jumping into the fray here. I'm looking at picking up a gtx 1080 card, but there are a ton of different flavors, manufacturers, clock speeds, etc... It's a bit overwhelming.

Is there one in particular that will do best with MadVR and using NNEID3 (or the new NG1 that madshi is developing).. I plan on posting over at doom9, but there's a 5-day wait for new users to post.

I have been eyeing this one in particular:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01K5F8MJK...LCPXKZWH&psc=1

dwaleke 11-17-2016 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecram3 (Post 48243257)
According to that. Rx470 (2048 cores) outperforms gtx1070 (1920 cores) with madvr ? And rx480 (2304 cores) is near gtx 1080 (2560 cores)? Always attending madvr performance...

If amd outputs more exactly 23.976 and has better performance/money is a better bet?

Garmon42. Do you remember the link? I can't find it.

Dollar for dollar (cost and power usage) I don't think there is a single AMD card that can perform as well as the Nvidia counterpart for MadVR right now.

If you look at the madvr thread at doom9 people were posting comparisons of the rx480 and gtx1070. 1070 outperformed and did it without generating as much heat and noise. Things may have changes since I've looked last so go over there and see what is current.

JeffR1 11-17-2016 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tecram3 (Post 48243257)
According to that. Rx470 (2048 cores) outperforms gtx1070 (1920 cores) with madvr ? And rx480 (2304 cores) is near gtx 1080 (2560 cores)? Always attending madvr performance...

If amd outputs more exactly 23.976 and has better performance/money is a better bet?

Garmon42. Do you remember the link? I can't find it.

Someone corrected me on this too, saying that the more teraflops a card has the better _ for Madvr.
Teraflops is the number of calculations per second and the way I see it, the more cores there are, the more calculations per second that can be carried out.
Prices also increase due to how much video memory is in the card and how fast the cores run at.
The real increase in cost is how many cores it has.

Someone please correct me if wrong about this, when it comes to Madvr, video memory and core speed are not as important as how many cores there are.

Not that this has anything to do with Madvr, but when it comes to frame interpolation (DmitriRender) the more cores the better.
I had a GTX 760 being pushed to its limits (running at 90 degrees) and now my GTX 980 runs at around 65 to 70 degrees.
The amount of memory and speed hadn't changes that much, but the number of cores was increased.

I can't say if one card performs any better when it comes to AMD vs NVIDIA, but AMD always did have lower costs over-all.

mightyhuhn 11-17-2016 10:49 AM

you need 4 GB of vram to display UHD. frame rate has nothing to do with this.
with 2Gb and a GPU queue of 4 you can still use madVR but deinterlancing doesn't work with this and other setting my break down too.

i have a RX 480 and i'm pretty sure it can't beat the 1070 in madVR.
nvidia has currently the better working hardware decoder but a RX 480 4GB version is cheaper than a 6 GB 1060 and the 1060 3G can get in Vram trouble at UHD.

tecram3 11-17-2016 01:08 PM

I can't find comparisons at doom9. People speaks about his card... the best or shorty card. I insist. Looking for cores: rx480 beats gtx 1070 or i am wrong?

Speaking about heat and temperature. Could you consider a valid solution for silent htpcs the liquid cooling for gpus like nzxt kraken or similar?

Thanks.

mightyhuhn 11-17-2016 02:08 PM

you still have to cool the radiator and extra noise from the pump.
water cooling is mostly improving the temps not noise level.

a GTX 1070 is a way better card than a RX 480. the RX 480 shouldn't stand a chance.

a passive 1050/1050 ti could show up sooner than later.
passive cooling a CPU is boring and a no issue at all of cause with intel. AMD doesn't exists on the CPU market for now...

Nemxwasp 11-19-2016 11:05 AM

I don't game and my machines sole purpose is as an htpc.

I had the evga gtx 960 but as soon as I upgraded from a 1080p to 4k uhd tv I had to swap with the evga gtx 970 in my other machine because it wasn't able to keep up. I tried out the evga gtx 1050ti today but immediately put it back in the box to return because it can't keep up based on how I configured madvr for the gtx 970.

I'm debating getting the evga gtx 1060 or just sticking with my 970 for now. I don't want to get the 1060 and be disappointed again.

I'd love to get a 1070 or even 1080 but that's currently way too expensive for an htpc.

I'm definitely snobby when it comes to audio /video quality lol.

Any thoughts on if the 1060 will out perform the 970 with madvr and mpc-hc or should I not waste my time?

Thanks in advance.

dwaleke 11-19-2016 12:14 PM

970 and 1060 will not be much different. You'd need a 1070 or better for an upgrade.

Nemxwasp 11-19-2016 12:24 PM

Thanks that's what I was afraid of. Thinking maybe I might look for a used 980 for now or just wait.

jtscribe 11-19-2016 04:39 PM

Any low-profile 4K cards out yet?

Metal_Icarus 11-20-2016 09:56 AM

Guys I need an advice, could you help?

I have a GTX 960 and a 4K TV. Currently I'm using Super-xbr 100 with chroma and luma upscaling to 4K, it's ok but I can see the GPU is like 70% used and the fan is spinning a lot producing noise. I tried NNEDI3 32 and the new NGU but it cannot handle it at all...it's really superslow and unwatchable. Based on this I was planning to buy a Gtx 1060 but I'm having doubts...it is better to spend some more money and get a 1070 or it wouldn't change much? By the money point of view actually there is some difference so I'd like to understand if it is worth it or not.

Any reply is appreciated.

andrewlef 11-20-2016 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal_Icarus (Post 48317105)
Guys I need an advice, could you help?



I have a GTX 960 and a 4K TV. Currently I'm using Super-xbr 100 with chroma and luma upscaling to 4K, it's ok but I can see the GPU is like 70% used and the fan is spinning a lot producing noise. I tried NNEDI3 32 and the new NGU but it cannot handle it at all...it's really superslow and unwatchable. Based on this I was planning to buy a Gtx 1060 but I'm having doubts...it is better to spend some more money and get a 1070 or it wouldn't change much? By the money point of view actually there is some difference so I'd like to understand if it is worth it or not.



Any reply is appreciated.



Why are you having the GPU do the upscaling? Why not have your TV do it?

Just curious. IMO the technology has not progressed sufficiently for me to bother with a 4K HTPC, but mainly because I'd want something quiet and efficient.

What about a GTX 1050?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

madshi 11-20-2016 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal_Icarus (Post 48317105)
Guys I need an advice, could you help?

I have a GTX 960 and a 4K TV. Currently I'm using Super-xbr 100 with chroma and luma upscaling to 4K, it's ok but I can see the GPU is like 70% used and the fan is spinning a lot producing noise. I tried NNEDI3 32 and the new NGU but it cannot handle it at all...it's really superslow and unwatchable. Based on this I was planning to buy a Gtx 1060 but I'm having doubts...it is better to spend some more money and get a 1070 or it wouldn't change much? By the money point of view actually there is some difference so I'd like to understand if it is worth it or not.

Any reply is appreciated.

Try the latest v0.91.1 with the following settings:

1) chroma upscaling: bicubic60 ar
2) luma doubling: NGU-Low
3) chroma doubling: disabled
4) image upscaling: bicubic60 ar

Hopefully your GT 960 can handle that?

dwaleke 11-20-2016 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewlef (Post 48318233)
Why are you having the GPU do the upscaling? Why not have your TV do it?

Not sure if you're serious.

Madvr does a much better job than the TV.

Nemxwasp 11-20-2016 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal_Icarus (Post 48317105)
Guys I need an advice, could you help?

I have a GTX 960 and a 4K TV. Currently I'm using Super-xbr 100 with chroma and luma upscaling to 4K, it's ok but I can see the GPU is like 70% used and the fan is spinning a lot producing noise. I tried NNEDI3 32 and the new NGU but it cannot handle it at all...it's really superslow and unwatchable. Based on this I was planning to buy a Gtx 1060 but I'm having doubts...it is better to spend some more money and get a 1070 or it wouldn't change much? By the money point of view actually there is some difference so I'd like to understand if it is worth it or not.

Any reply is appreciated.

I had the gtx 960 and it could not handle the higher madvr settings after I upgraded to a 4k tv and switched in a gtx 970 from my other machine which worked way better. I just tried a gtx 1050 ti and immediately put it back in the box to return. I bought a used gtx 980 on eBay because the gtx 1070 and 1080 are way too expensive right now.

andrewlef 11-20-2016 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwaleke (Post 48323305)
Not sure if you're serious.

Madvr does a much better job than the TV.

I don't doubt that MadVR does a better job than the TV. I just question wether or not it's worth spending $500+ on a noisy, hot graphics card to run MadVR.

For many (perhaps even most) of us, we don't sit close enough to our TV's to discern any difference between 1080p and 4K in the first place. So, unless one is very close to the TV, the difference between two different upscalers should be relatively imperceptible. Correct? I don't have a 4K TV currently, but I also don't sit close enough to see a real difference between HD and UHD (according to various resolution charts).

Genuinely curious about this because I just got a 4K capable AVR and I'm weighing a switch to a 4K display (and a 4K HTPC).

madshi 11-20-2016 04:01 PM

The latest "NGU-Low" algorithm I just released today should make it possible for relatively cheap GPUs to do high quality 4K upscaling. No need to spend anywhere near $500.

Nemxwasp 11-20-2016 05:09 PM

Nice! Downloading now. My biggest issue always seems to be my card not able to handle upscaling to uhd the majority of 1080p or 720p videos I download without bringing my card to it's knees or looking bad.

Thanks!

Holiday121 11-20-2016 05:29 PM

116 Attachment(s)
Really thinking about getting a htpc amen aomething like plex or jriver or kodi. I don't have a 4K projector but it's a jvc rs46. Wonder if it's worth the headache in setting up

mightyhuhn 11-21-2016 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi (Post 48320161)
Try the latest v0.91.1 with the following settings:

1) chroma upscaling: bicubic60 ar
2) luma doubling: NGU-Low
3) chroma doubling: disabled
4) image upscaling: bicubic60 ar

Hopefully your GT 960 can handle that?

well it should be able to that if 960 has 4Gb vram with 2Gb it should be impossible.

i'm pretty sure my 960 was able to do FHD -> UHD 23p with nnedi 3 32

VBB 11-22-2016 03:21 PM

Nothing wrong with a good "old" GTX 960 (4GB, in my case). I used to upscale everything with Super-xbr + SR1-3. Have since switched to NGU, and can now do the following for 1080p/23p -> 4K/23p:

Chroma upscaling: NGU low
Luma doubling: NGU low
Chroma doubling: NGU low

Render times between 36-39ms. Thanks Mathias!

OzHDHT 11-22-2016 03:27 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I can now run NGU high across the board with my GTX 1070 no issue 720/1080p23 -> 2160p23. Really impressed with the new algo Madshi!

madshi 11-22-2016 11:51 PM

Glad to hear that!

@VBB , might be worth trying if luma doubling at NGU Med and chroma doubling disabled (replacement: image upscaling = Catrom AR) would improve image quality slightly? Generally, luma is much more important than chroma.

Onkyoman 11-23-2016 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi (Post 48386617)
Glad to hear that!

@VBB , might be worth trying if luma doubling at NGU Med and chroma doubling disabled (replacement: image upscaling = Catrom AR) would improve image quality slightly? Generally, luma is much more important than chroma.

Like this:

  • Chroma: Lanczos 3 +AR or NGU low quality
  • Image: Catmull-Rom + AR
  • Double Luma: 2.0x or greater - NGU medium quality
  • Double Chroma: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: soften edges (1)
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

VBB 11-23-2016 11:21 AM

@madshi Thanks for the tip. You must be tired of repeating yourself over and over LOL. Like some of the guys on doom, I keep "forgetting" that luma>chroma ;) I tested all kinds of resolution/fps combos last night, and I'm happy to say that in all cases I was able to make the switch to NGU (in various different combinations). I did like Super-xbr very much for a long time, but NGU's sharpness is pretty incredible.

@Onkyoman I can now use this with even slightly lower render times than what I mentioned above:

  • Chroma upscaling: NGU medium
  • Image upscaling: Catmull-Rom + AR
  • Double Luma: NGU medium quality
  • Double Chroma: Off
  • Upscaling refinement: none
  • Artifact removal - Debanding: Low/Low
  • Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
  • Image enhancements: Off
  • Dithering: Ordered

I know you feel like you need to have "Soften Edges" ticked with NGU, but I haven't found a reason to do this (yet). It's damn sharp, but it doesn't look cartoonish to me. At least not from my where I sit, which is about 12 feet from a 70" TV.

Sayajin 11-24-2016 09:02 AM

So two quick questions that I have.

I notice that the recommended video card is an Nvidia one. Is there any confirmation that the other thread that says the Nvidia cards with new drivers are not working properly? I just bought a new GTX 1060 6GB card and if its not going to work properly, I would rather exchange it now.

Second, It says that Windows 7 is one of the acceptable OS. I have read that windows 7 does a poor job of upscaling 4k content and that most people recommend going to Windows 10. I would MUCH rather stick to 7 however if its not going to properly display 4K, its not worth me keeping it with as much as I have invested in the rest of my setup. I plan to use MadVR and Kodi PS for my system, (upgrading some components and switching from Media Portal) and I don't know if that makes everything work properly in Windows 7. So I wanted to ask.

Thanks for the help!

-Sayajin

madshi 11-24-2016 09:21 AM

IMHO, Windows 8.1 is the best media OS atm. Windows 7 has a mediocre desktop composition implementation, and misses a couple important APIs (e.g. those for 3D Blu-Ray playback). Windows 8.1 is in every way better than Windows 7 - for media playback! For normal desktop use the situation may be different. Windows 10 is not really stable yet, especially the GPU drivers have all sorts of issues. It's possible that Windows 10 might be required for HDR passthrough, though, but that's not sure yet.

VBB 11-24-2016 11:42 AM

For what it's worth, I haven't had a single issue with media playback in Windows 10 using MPC-HC/madVR/LAV Filters combo. Been using the OS since it came out (not the insider versions, though). I always use the latest Nvidia drivers with my GTX 960. My rig is super old, too. 1st gen Core I7 920 in an X58 mobo still going very strong :p

madshi 11-24-2016 12:50 PM

Usually the majority doesn't have issues. But looking through the madVR thread, by far most of the people who *do* have issues, have GPU driver issues on Windows 10.

mightyhuhn 11-25-2016 07:19 AM

select CUVID in lavfilter and nnedi3 in madVR and you will "see" an windows 10 exclusive bug!

Metal_Icarus 11-27-2016 12:01 PM

Well....in the end I decided to buy a GTX 1070 just to be safer and maybe have something "lasting longer" :-)

pgjensen 11-28-2016 12:56 PM

Quote:

I can now run NGU high across the board with my GTX 1070 no issue 720/1080p23 -> 2160p23. Really impressed with the new algo Madshi!
I almost bought a GTX 1080 today solely for MadVR, since 4K for new games still isn't quite up to 60fps even with that card. I'm glad I came and read this before I pulled the trigger! I'm going to grab a GTX 1070 for $230 cheaper and do 1080p ultra gaming for the time being.

VideoGrabber 11-30-2016 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madshi (Post 48324569)
The latest "NGU-Low" algorithm I just released today should make it possible for relatively cheap GPUs to do high quality 4K upscaling. No need to spend anywhere near $500.

That's really great news. Could you list a few examples of some "relatively cheap GPUs"? So we know what ballpark you're playing in. ;) Thanks.

VideoGrabber 11-30-2016 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewlef (Post 48324113)
For many (perhaps even most) of us, we don't sit close enough to our TV's to discern any difference between 1080p and 4K in the first place.

That may be true, and is a point worth bringing up. Certainly those viewing "TVs" (even large ones) will be less likely to benefit, depending on how far away they sit. So both 4K content and 4K displays may be moot, for them (and perhaps yourself). For example VBB mentioned he sits 12' from a 70" diag TV, which is a 61" horizontal width. That puts him at a d/w = 2.4x, with a ~24-deg field-of-view span. While others may have TVs that are smaller, or sit farther away, or both.

OTOH, some of the folks in this Forum are using projection displays, and clean upscaled 4K can be very easily differentiated. As a counter-example to the above, I sit (well, will be when I get a room ready) 10' from an almost 9'-wide screen. So my d/w will = 1.1-1.2, or a 48-deg span. And while that may seem really close to some people, I'm actually at the low end. Some with 4K PJs (or 4K-eshift with JVCs) go for an immersion factor that puts them at d/w < 1.0! Or a FOV of 60+deg. I.e., they're closer to the screen than it is wide. :eek: At this end of the range, the extreme quality of scaling that MadVR provides can make a very large visible difference.

Hence some of us trying to determine how much horsepower we need in a GPU to access various levels of PQ that MadVR makes available. Because that will impact not only $$$, but also heat and noise. Not always an easy task to know, in advance. But MadVR gives you the flexibility to make numerous options available, at any price-point. We know what MadVR CAN do, and don't want to buy a card that's too wimpy to achieve the kind of results we've seen.

Quote:

Genuinely curious about this because I just got a 4K capable AVR and I'm weighing a switch to a 4K display (and a 4K HTPC).
Depending on how big the display, how close you sit, and how sharp an eye you have, all that extra $$$ spent for 4K could wind up being totally wasted. You need to figure out first what your specific situation is, by going somewhere to preview some clean true 4K, and seeing at what distance it stops making a meaingful difference. Each person must do that for themself (i.e., no blanket "rules", because no two situations are the same.

VideoGrabber 11-30-2016 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mightyhuhn (Post 48331649)
well it should be able to that if 960 has 4Gb vram with 2Gb it should be impossible.

Thanks for pointing that out (several times here). I've been sifting through potential vidcards, and had a few on my list with just 2GB or 3GB of VRAM. Now I know to cross those off.

VBB 11-30-2016 08:15 PM

IMO, even more important than your viewing distance and vision is the quality of the content you watch. Don't expect miracles watching SD or even lower on your shiny new 4K TV, no matter how good the scaler. MadVR helps tremendously, but the old adage "garbage in, garbage out" still applies. 1080p upscaled to 2160p doesn't require a $500+ video card, perhaps not even a $300 one. I use a GTX 960, which I paid roughly $250 for, and I am able to use madshi's new "NGU High" for chroma upscaling and luma doubling (with the rest on AUTO). It doesn't get much better than that. Now, if I were still a hardcore gamer and had extra money to spend, I would have popped a GTX 1080 in there already. But just for madVR, anything higher than a GTX 1060 (or AMD equivalent) is kind of a waste.

andrewlef 12-01-2016 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VideoGrabber (Post 48593601)
Hence some of us trying to determine how much horsepower we need in a GPU to access various levels of PQ that MadVR makes available. Because that will impact not only $$$, but also heat and noise. Not always an easy task to know, in advance. But MadVR gives you the flexibility to make numerous options available, at any price-point. We know what MadVR CAN do, and don't want to buy a card that's too wimpy to achieve the kind of results we've seen.

I have a 60" Plasma and sit about 10' away from it. Even though I don't sit close enough to benefit from 4K, I do expect that there'd be a noticeable difference once I move to an OLED display (HDR, contract ratio, color space, etc). I agree with you that 4k scaling performance is certainly a concern for those sitting close to their 10ft+ wide screens.

There are still many issues with 4K content availability and distribution that need to be settled (and internet caps do not help), but the main thing holding me back is the lack of any good quiet and cool htpc options. My Mac Mini is great because the case is a giant slab of aluminum, so it acts as a big heat sink; it's basically silent. If my equipment were remotely located in a rack, then noise and heat make no difference.

Until then, I'm waiting for a GPU that is both powerful and has very low TDP (30-60W range, not 125w-250w). That may mean sticking with a mobile GPU and I may also need to wait for the next generation of hardware to come out. Liquid cooling and large radiators are a possible work around, but I have a strong preference for a simpler design. Integrated GPUs are an option, I suppose, but I doubt there is any flavor of Intel Iris that can even remotely keep up.

VideoGrabber 12-01-2016 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewlef (Post 48607065)
Until then, I'm waiting for a GPU that is both powerful and has very low TDP (30-60W range, not 125w-250w). That may mean sticking with a mobile GPU and I may also need to wait for the next generation of hardware to come out.

I have similar desires to yours (currently wishful thinking?), but am willing to go a bit higher (and relocate the HTPC), if necessary. But I'm not interested in a fire-breathing dragon, in any event.

As you said, I think we'll need to wait to hit those lower TDP targets. From my reading so far, it seems that the best we can do is in the middle of your range, with 90-120W TDP, depending on GPU and madVR settings. And the higher settings may require the 'heavy iron' with 150-250W TDP. But I may not yet have a complete picture of the situation, and corrections are welcome.

andrewlef 12-01-2016 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VideoGrabber (Post 48616817)
I have similar desires to yours (currently wishful thinking?), but am willing to go a bit higher (and relocate the HTPC), if necessary. But I'm not interested in a fire-breathing dragon, in any event.



As you said, I think we'll need to wait to hit those lower TDP targets. From my reading so far, it seems that the best we can do is in the middle of your range, with 90-120W TDP, depending on GPU and madVR settings. And the higher settings may require the 'heavy iron' with 150-250W TDP. But I may not yet have a complete picture of the situation, and corrections are welcome.


I think you're right. I've come to a similar conclusion. Even the GTX 1060 notebook GPU has a TDP of 85w. I certainly wouldn't want to run that hot in a laptop, never mind my htpc.

I can't find any concrete info on forthcoming GTX 10 GPUs with greatly enhanced power consumption. Guess I'll have to just wait and see. The new architecture is coming out next year, so it looks like they'll introduce a new batch of GTX 10 GPUs in June 2017.

Not to mention the fact that 4K support in Windows 10 is terrible right now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dwaleke 12-01-2016 04:08 PM

I wouldn't want anything less than a gtx 1060 for madvr 4k.

Dimitry1980 12-06-2016 05:27 AM

Guys, first of all thanks for the great thread. Lots of interesting info here.

I recently upgraded my HTPC rig from Asus Geforce 750ti OC2 to Geforce GTX 1060 with 6 GB memory as I purchased a 65" Sony Bravia 4K TV and the old card just wouldn't upscale without considerable performance drop however I cannot run more than "JINC" on upscaling in MADVR without getting frame drops... I must be doing something wrong?

I was under the impression that I can run at least NNDEI 32 on Chroma upscaling and image doubling.

When I play a bluray movie (30Gb) I get more problems than when I play a 1080p mkv or even 720p even with quadrupling enabled. I have i3, 8 Gb RAM and SSD disk running Windows 7.

I was kind of hoping that this new Nvidia card with 6gb memory would do the trick... Anyone that can recommend optimal MadVR settings to run all the content without switching between different profiles or am I stuck at Jinc? Oh yeah, can't even go SuperRes 2+ as each level adds at least 15 fps :(

Also are there any special settings to look out for in Nvidia Control Panel? Many thanks

madshi 12-06-2016 05:38 AM

Try using NGU for luma doubling. NGU-Low should be easy for your GPU, probably you can use NGU-Medium. When using NGU, please disable SuperRes. With high quality sources, NGU without SuperRes should look better than NNEDI3+SuperRes.

Chroma upscaling is much less important. Simple Bicubic60 AR should do just fine there. Or if you have some GPU power to spare, super-xbr AR is a step up. But your highest priority should be on luma/image upscaling/doubling, not chroma.

mightyhuhn 12-06-2016 05:40 AM

try to change the power saving option from optimal to adaptive.

axell 12-06-2016 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitry1980 (Post 48739657)
Guys, first of all thanks for the great thread. Lots of interesting info here....

Indeed, let me subscribe and show my appreciation, thanks all for your hard work and sharing.

I am after some help to understand all this 4k upscaling and MadVR settings, what should be the desktop resolution set to for Nvidia card (GTX 1050 Ti in my case): 1920x1080 24Hz or 3840x2160 24Hz? I should have mentioned that I am using Epson 5040UB/TW7300 (EU).

On 1080 the desktop is sharp and the text very clear where on 2160 everything seems blurry - does this have something to do with the (High) DPI settings? What would be your advise please?

Thanks, Axell

madshi 12-06-2016 07:33 AM

Use the physical res of your projector. I think it's 1080p?

axell 12-06-2016 07:39 AM

Thank you, yes 1080p but accepts 4k input...

Resolution

Full HD 1080p, 1920 x 1080, 16:9

High Definition
4K enhancement

madshi 12-06-2016 08:07 AM

Does it have some e-shift or similar method to actually try reproduce 4K? If it just accepts 4K but internally scales it down to 1080p then you should feed it 1080p, because the internal downscaling is probably lower quality than madVR itself would do. In that case 4K upscaling is pretty much useless for you.

axell 12-06-2016 08:57 AM

This is a quote from a recent review:

"...The EH-TW7300 ... accept 4K Ultra HD footage and the projector uses a ‘faux’ pixel shift mode to create a 3840 x 2160p image from its 1080p 0.74 inch D9 chips. This is very similar technology to JVC’s eShift which does exactly the same thing...."

Is this helpful in any way?

madshi 12-06-2016 08:58 AM

In that case feeding the projector 4K might produce a "better" image. It might feel somewhat softer but more detailed. But why don't you try both (feeding 1080p and 4K) to the projector and check which one looks better to your eyes?

axell 12-06-2016 09:07 AM

Thank you madshi; when I am setting up the display resolution to 2160 it seems that the desktop icons/text becomes blurry and not clear and sharp as on 1080 and because of this it looks to me that the picture it's not that good as on 1080...
Am I doing something wrong here?
Will do some more testing tonight then; should I stick with the settings you've recommended on post #92?


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