Understanding nVidia Control Panel for 4K/HDR Pro (GTX 1080 & Samsung UN65MU7000) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 21 Old 11-16-2017, 08:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Understanding nVidia Control Panel for 4K/HDR Pro (GTX 1080 & Samsung UN65MU7000)

I recently purchased the Samsung UN65MU7000 4K UHD TV, to pair with my HTPC which sports a GTX 1080. The TV supports features like 4K HDR Pro, 4K Color Drive Pro, etc.

I’ve been able to understand the settings on the TV and as far as I know, have setup all the options correctly to get good 4K performance with HDR Pro.

Where I’m failing & need help is on my HTPC, specifically the nVidia Control Panel for the GTX 1080 settings.

This is my first 4K set. I’ve only experienced 1080p before this and the settings for 1080p were very simple.

With 1080p, I always had:
Desktop Color Depth - Highest (32-bit)
Output Color Depth - 12 bps
Output Color Format - RGB
Output Dynamic Range - Full

But with 4K there are other options and quite honestly I can’t seem to figure out what I need to choose. I don’t understand the whole spiel about chroma, sub-sampling, 8bit vs 10bit, and other such settings very well.

This is what the control panel looks like with my new 4K TV:



The setting giving me the most agita is the “Output Color Format”. I have only ever selected RGB for 1080p.



Some options are inter-dependent. They affect the availability of other options in the neighboring boxes.

Would really like some advice on what I should be choosing in the above control panel options.

Thanks much!

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post #2 of 21 Old 11-16-2017, 08:37 AM
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Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.


RGB Full will engage and 12bpc color depth radio button will be blank. (it's at 8 bit for the Windows Desktop right now which is what you want)
When you start a title, it will automatically bump up to 12 bit output and probably dither down to 10.
You can confirm by opening the Nvidia Control Panel (NCP) DURING playback and see what it is outputting. You can also (set) that 12 bit color depth during playback if you desire. Best checked with a 1080p as minimizing HDR or 3D's changes display mode but it is still possible. If using MPC with madVR you can also confirm what is happening by pressing CTRL+J.


Due to some driver mishaps expected with all the new things occurring at this time, NVidia might fail to preserve these settings upon a cold start. Turn on your display, then AVR and wait for no signal input notification from your display. Then turn on your HTPC. It will preserve.


You may also want to check out post # 305 in the guide below for another tip while you're in the NCP.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W

Last edited by brazen1; 11-16-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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post #3 of 21 Old 11-16-2017, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.


RGB Full will engage and 12bpc color depth radio button will be blank. (it's at 8 bit for the Windows Desktop right now which is what you want)
When you start a title, it will automatically bump up to 12 bit output and probably dither down to 10.
You can confirm by opening the Nvidia Control Panel (NCP) DURING playback and see what it is outputting. You can also (set) that 12 bit color depth during playback if you desire. Best checked with a 1080p as minimizing HDR or 3D's changes display mode but it is still possible. If using MPC with madVR you can also confirm what is happening by pressing CTRL+J.


Due to some driver mishaps expected with all the new things occurring at this time, NVidia might fail to preserve these settings upon a cold start. Turn on your display, then AVR and wait for no signal input notification from your display. Then turn on your HTPC. It will preserve.


You may also want to check out post # 305 in the guide below for another tip while you're in the NCP.
Ah!! So I was doing it wrong. From everything I was reading online, it appeared I needed to set output color format to "YCbCr444" and leave everything else be. Which is what I had it on.

So I just followed your instructions and all looks to be as you stated.

- Select YCbCr422 & hit Apply
- Change Output color depth to 12 bpc; Output color format to RGB and Output dynamic range to Full & hit Apply
- After screen refreshed back, Output color depth went blank and all other options remain as chosen.

I will be able to test playback later in the day & check NCP to see if it's outputting 12bpc.

Going to check your link below.

Thanks so much for your help!!

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post #4 of 21 Old 11-16-2017, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.
There was one thing I omitted to mention, the GTX 1080 HTPC connected to the Samsung UN65MU7000 4K HDR Pro TV is dual purpose -- it is used equally for Media Playback via KODI/PowerDVD AND PC Gaming. Would the above steps still apply and be the best settings to use?

And I have two further questions.

I. For all connectivity to the new 4K Display (HTPC, XBOX One S, and my upcoming Denon X4300H Receiver), I recently bought new HDMI Cables from Amazon. This is the cable I ended up buying:
Link: http://a.co/bMVKOaN
However, on most articles I'm reading online, it is recommended to only purchase "Premium Certified HDMI" cables, such as these:
Link: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15430
Which the ones I'm using clearly are not. Although I don't see a "technical" difference between the cables, should I dump all the cables I bought on Amazon and buy these Premium Certified HDMI cables?

II. This is just for my general info. Almost all articles and posts I read online suggested using YCbCr444 for 4K HDR. Although I did also read posts which were in favor of RGB Full, just as you have stated. Can I ask why you chose RGB Full over YCbCr444?

Thanks so much!

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
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post #5 of 21 Old 11-16-2017, 12:23 PM
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Yes, your GPU settings affect all players. IE: Checking output of a title on Kodi internal player will be the same as checking the same title using PDVD.


I use cheap cables for all my interfaces (the free ones TWC includes with their STB for example) BUT, none of my runs are longer than 6'. I have read longer runs require 18gps especially for high bitrate video. I am using cheap cables for the 'highest' of bitrate audio/video with 0 problems but again they are only 6' runs. Can't reco anything beyond what works for me.


No matter what output color format you use, it's going to get converted to RGB if it isn't already and why add more processing? The missing higher 10 or 12 bits on desktop will kick in for video. Besides, 'Desktop' and 'Video' modes prefer RGB and coincide together well. If you were to mix up the color format, the Windows 'desktop' would calibrate differently than 'Video'. To have the best of both worlds (Desktop) and (Video) we run RGB FULL aka 0-256 for EVERYTHING. Think youtube desktop video and UHD player video. This means use the 'Normal' setting on your Samsung and not the 'Low'. Same with Kodi. Same with your other external players, AVR, EVERYTHING at 0-256. Calibrate your display modes and your finished.


Side note: I think this is one of the most misunderstood things about color space. Most are selecting 0-256 Full or 16-235 Limited based on what their eyes see and concluding what looks best. They give no consideration what other components are set at and the relationships let alone how many round trips they are making to achieve the same thing. I think the best practice is to determine your environment. In plenty of cases it's Windows with a desktop mode and players with a video mode used at the same time. Other environments that have one mode only like devices of one sort or another or a simpler operating system might prefer other color spaces because they don't need a desktop mode or use it if they did? Once you've determined your environment and have set color spaces between all your software and hardware, the final step is to calibrate. This is where many go wrong. They don't hassle with the 5 mins it takes to calibrate so they start messing with combos of color spaces between software and hardware trial and error for some combo that looks ok. Usually they've done more harm than good and settle for the picture they have thinking it's the best it's gonna' get and leave it at that thinking default values must be close enough. Default values for what we do around here are so far off, no wonder the picture looks wrong and the color space is often blamed when it's actually the hero.
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HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-04-2018, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Yes, your GPU settings affect all players. IE: Checking output of a title on Kodi internal player will be the same as checking the same title using PDVD.


I use cheap cables for all my interfaces (the free ones TWC includes with their STB for example) BUT, none of my runs are longer than 6'. I have read longer runs require 18gps especially for high bitrate video. I am using cheap cables for the 'highest' of bitrate audio/video with 0 problems but again they are only 6' runs. Can't reco anything beyond what works for me.


No matter what output color format you use, it's going to get converted to RGB if it isn't already and why add more processing? The missing higher 10 or 12 bits on desktop will kick in for video. Besides, 'Desktop' and 'Video' modes prefer RGB and coincide together well. If you were to mix up the color format, the Windows 'desktop' would calibrate differently than 'Video'. To have the best of both worlds (Desktop) and (Video) we run RGB FULL aka 0-256 for EVERYTHING. Think youtube desktop video and UHD player video. This means use the 'Normal' setting on your Samsung and not the 'Low'. Same with Kodi. Same with your other external players, AVR, EVERYTHING at 0-256. Calibrate your display modes and your finished.


Side note: I think this is one of the most misunderstood things about color space. Most are selecting 0-256 Full or 16-235 Limited based on what their eyes see and concluding what looks best. They give no consideration what other components are set at and the relationships let alone how many round trips they are making to achieve the same thing. I think the best practice is to determine your environment. In plenty of cases it's Windows with a desktop mode and players with a video mode used at the same time. Other environments that have one mode only like devices of one sort or another or a simpler operating system might prefer other color spaces because they don't need a desktop mode or use it if they did? Once you've determined your environment and have set color spaces between all your software and hardware, the final step is to calibrate. This is where many go wrong. They don't hassle with the 5 mins it takes to calibrate so they start messing with combos of color spaces between software and hardware trial and error for some combo that looks ok. Usually they've done more harm than good and settle for the picture they have thinking it's the best it's gonna' get and leave it at that thinking default values must be close enough. Default values for what we do around here are so far off, no wonder the picture looks wrong and the color space is often blamed when it's actually the hero.
Is there a reason that Yrc444 is not used as the starting point.

I have used the settings above and everything looks good - (it enabled HDR on my TV with these settings)

however would 444 give a better picture
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-04-2018, 07:36 AM
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It appears Nvidia is encouraging us to use their 'use default color settings'. I often wondered why they added that as HDR began to take hold in HTPC's. So, I've recently started using it thinking HDMI EDID problems might be handled better as well as retaining settings after cold boots since this is what it defaults too when it occurs. The only other change I made was in my display going from FULL aka Normal aka 0-255 to AUTO. Calibration remained the same after checking. Desktop mode looks the same. Video mode looks the same. GUI's look the same, etc. 2D, 3D, SDR, and HDR behave properly. I have noticed SOME titles in PowerDVD fail to adapt to the new color space crushing blacks (black bars are not black) while others don't. Other players do not exhibit this so I believe it's confined to PDVD. It has other problems with resolution change on some mkv's as well but I usually use MPC or the Kodi video player anyway now that it reads menus. I think processors and memory are so fast in AVR's, GPU's and displays now, the extra conversion isn't detrimental. It's always going to end up at RGB limited 12bit dithered down to 10bit for video playback. As long as Desktop mode and Video mode can coincide, that's all I care about. Lastly, some displays prefer a color space. Mine doesn't. So on AUTO the display can adapt for a dedicated player, a GPU, a device, etc. with no manual intervention. I think this is why NVidia added the setting. So far, I'm good with it. I'd say experiment with the different color spaces and see how your environment reacts. Post your findings.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-04-2018, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FGEvans View Post
Is there a reason that Yrc444 is not used as the starting point.

I have used the settings above and everything looks good - (it enabled HDR on my TV with these settings)

however would 444 give a better picture
Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
It appears Nvidia is encouraging us to use their 'use default color settings'. I often wondered why they added that as HDR began to take hold in HTPC's. So, I've recently started using it thinking HDMI EDID problems might be handled better as well as retaining settings after cold boots since this is what it defaults too when it occurs. The only other change I made was in my display going from FULL aka Normal aka 0-255 to AUTO. Calibration remained the same after checking. Desktop mode looks the same. Video mode looks the same. GUI's look the same, etc. 2D, 3D, SDR, and HDR behave properly. I have noticed SOME titles in PowerDVD fail to adapt to the new color space crushing blacks (black bars are not black) while others don't. Other players do not exhibit this so I believe it's confined to PDVD. It has other problems with resolution change on some mkv's as well but I usually use MPC or the Kodi video player anyway now that it reads menus. I think processors and memory are so fast in AVR's, GPU's and displays now, the extra conversion isn't detrimental. It's always going to end up at RGB limited 12bit dithered down to 10bit for video playback. As long as Desktop mode and Video mode can coincide, that's all I care about. Lastly, some displays prefer a color space. Mine doesn't. So on AUTO the display can adapt for a dedicated player, a GPU, a device, etc. with no manual intervention. I think this is why NVidia added the setting. So far, I'm good with it. I'd say experiment with the different color spaces and see how your environment reacts. Post your findings.
What I'm struggling with is slightly different, and I'm sure it stems from my personal lack of knowledge. Its also probably outside the scope of this thread, and should go in the Display forums, but I'm going to post it herein in any event, as I know brazen1 knows more about these matters then anyone else I know (I don't know if you recollect, but you helped me tremendously in the past in Kodi forums, setting up PDVD as external player and some other nVidia issues).

Anyhow,

Quote:
Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.
... This works well, and is what I went with.

MY problem is more to do with the Options & Settings on my display, the Samsung UN65MU7000, at this point, rather then the nVidia Control Panel.

The HTPC this display is connected to has a 50-50 usage: Media Playback AND PC Gaming.

The Display Settings are mainly to do with the HDMI Input which is connected to my HTPC. And here's where my issues begin.

My first & biggest issue is with the "Source" setting, in particular, this screen:



After scouring the Internet, all I hear anybody state is that I must choose "PC" as the source when connected to a PC (or HTPC) in order to enable something known as "Chroma Subsampling" -- which I honestly have no clue what it is.

So I set it to "PC". But when I do that, almost 80% of the Video settings are greyed out and you cannot choose/select do anything. If I choose any other source, like "Blu-ray" or "Game Console", those settings are enabled - although different settings are enabled for different sources.

Quite honestly. I very much wish I could choose a Source that would leave all settings enabled and I could just pick & choose what I want to do with each.

I have also noticed that "PC" source leaves the Windows Desktop and even something like Kodi interface extremely washed out - really poor looking. It does automatically change (And some options open up) the moment I playback media or game.

Do you have any advice on this matter? Should I or should I not select "PC" as the Source input on the Display?

My next issue is the "Picture Mode". Everyone seems to recommend the "Movie" preset but I find that the worst. Very greyed and washed out and dark. I find "Natural" to be the best, but Standard & Dynamic aren't bad either. I can't for the life of me choose "Movie".

This is the option screen:



I also don't like to enable "Game Mode" as some recommend for gaming, as it also affects PQ negatively.

Outside of these 2 issues, I don't seem to get all of the options available to me as shown below in these screenshots, and it might be to do with picking a different "Source" input then "PC", I'm not sure, however, I'm posting these below if I can be given any sort of advice on what settings I should choose -- considering the HTPC is used 50% for Media Playback & 50% for Gaming. I'm not necessarily asking for values for "Color" or "Brightness" or "Tint", but rather the more technical ones like Color Space, Gamma, White Balance, etc.









I did make sure I have UHD Color enabled for all inputs:



This still does confuse me a little, because if I'm not mistaken, I believe Samsung insists on calling "HDR" as "UHD Color". I'm not sure why. It took me a long time to figure this out just because of this reason.

Anyhow - Any advice I can get - Both with Display Settings and anything else I should change in the nVidia Control Panel - I'll greatly appreciate.

Thanks.

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JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-05-2018, 07:40 AM
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This is your thread so I don't think we're breaking any OT rules here. I select Blu-ray, not PC when editing device type for every reason you stated. It does nothing for Desktop mode except ruin it imo. I use Standard mode. It calibrates well and I agree with you about Movie mode. Imo, Standard also looks best with 3D. Our panels are somewhat similar. These settings look very, very good to my eyes. I don't game so I can't help you with that but maybe these will apply well also?


These are the Picture settings I use for HTPC video playback and Windows Desktop and Cable TV:
HDMI 1 (Edit Device Type is Blu-ray) for SDR Blu-ray, 3D and UHD HDR @ 3' (Windows Desktop Mode as PC monitor) and 10' (Video Mode as Player) and vice versa.
Light of day or dark of night, makes no difference.
GPU is set to RGB 4:4:4 (Full) 12bit color depth 'Video' mode defaulting to RGB 4:4:4 (Full) 8bit color depth 'Desktop' mode @ Native 2160p auto switching to 1080p for 3D frame packed. Recently I have started using 'Use default color settings' in the NCP color space setting. The only other change I made was to use 'Auto' instead of 'Normal' in HDMI Black Level setting.
HDMI2/DVI port for cable TV (Edit Device Type is TV)


Picture Mode = Standard
Backlight = 20 - 18 for TV
Contrast = 94 for SDR - 93 for 3D - 95 for HDR - 81 for TV
Brightness = 45 for SDR & HDR - 46 for 3D
Sharpness = 21 for UHD & 3D - 71 for SDR - 50 for TV (You may find anything between 21 and 71 adjusts better for sources. For example some UHD looks best at 71 while others introduce too much noise so they need to be turned down. Currently experimenting with madVR to auto adjust using RBA, RRA, RCA, and RRN but my GTX 960 4GB is simply too weak to take advantage of the new algorithms so I have to manually adjust this depending on the source. SD and HD fine but UHD a challenge)
Color = 50 - 52 for TV
Tint = 50


Picture Size = 16:9
Fit to Screen = On


3D (adjust during 3D playback):
3D Mode = On
3D Perspective = 0
L/R Change = L/R Image (There are a handful of popular R/L titles. Turn your glasses upside down to notice the difference and change for R/L titles)
3D--> = Off
3D Auto View = Auto2
3D Optimize = 0


Advanced Settings:
Dynamic Contrast = Medium - Low for TV
Black Tone = Off - Dark for TV
Flesh Tone = 0
Color Space = Native, especially for HDR.
Gamma = 0


Picture Options:
Color Tone = Standard
Digital Clean View = Auto
MPEG Noise Filter = Auto
HDMI Black Level = Normal - Auto aka Low for TV
HDMI UHD Color = On HDMI 1 - Off for HDMI 2 (TV)
Auto Motion Plus = Smooth
Smart LED = High for SDR & HDR - Off for 3D - High for TV
Cinema Black = On

*Note* 3D is one mode. SDR is another mode. TV another. HDR is yet another mode. Each mode remembers its unique settings and do not apply to other modes. (You make settings during playback for each mode, so you are doing it 4 times and once completed, you never have to do it again)
Copy and paste this so you can add YOUR present settings before trying so you can easily revert if needed.
I see you're near me (foothills) but you're a little closer to Frys and Empire Best Buy

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-05-2018, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
This is your thread so I don't think we're breaking any OT rules here. I select Blu-ray, not PC when editing device type for every reason you stated. It does nothing for Desktop mode except ruin it imo. I use Standard mode. It calibrates well and I agree with you about Movie mode. Imo, Standard also looks best with 3D. Our panels are somewhat similar. These settings look very, very good to my eyes. I don't game so I can't help you with that but maybe these will apply well also?


These are the Picture settings I use for HTPC video playback and Windows Desktop and Cable TV:
HDMI 1 (Edit Device Type is Blu-ray) for SDR Blu-ray, 3D and UHD HDR @ 3' (Windows Desktop Mode as PC monitor) and 10' (Video Mode as Player) and vice versa.
Light of day or dark of night, makes no difference.
GPU is set to RGB 4:4:4 (Full) 12bit color depth 'Video' mode defaulting to RGB 4:4:4 (Full) 8bit color depth 'Desktop' mode @ Native 2160p auto switching to 1080p for 3D frame packed. Recently I have started using 'Use default color settings' in the NCP color space setting. The only other change I made was to use 'Auto' instead of 'Normal' in HDMI Black Level setting.
HDMI2/DVI port for cable TV (Edit Device Type is TV)


Picture Mode = Standard
Backlight = 20 - 18 for TV
Contrast = 94 for SDR - 93 for 3D - 95 for HDR - 81 for TV
Brightness = 45 for SDR & HDR - 46 for 3D
Sharpness = 21 for UHD & 3D - 71 for SDR - 50 for TV (You may find anything between 21 and 71 adjusts better for sources. For example some UHD looks best at 71 while others introduce too much noise so they need to be turned down. Currently experimenting with madVR to auto adjust using RBA, RRA, RCA, and RRN but my GTX 960 4GB is simply too weak to take advantage of the new algorithms so I have to manually adjust this depending on the source. SD and HD fine but UHD a challenge)
Color = 50 - 52 for TV
Tint = 50


Picture Size = 16:9
Fit to Screen = On


3D (adjust during 3D playback):
3D Mode = On
3D Perspective = 0
L/R Change = L/R Image (There are a handful of popular R/L titles. Turn your glasses upside down to notice the difference and change for R/L titles)
3D--> = Off
3D Auto View = Auto2
3D Optimize = 0


Advanced Settings:
Dynamic Contrast = Medium - Low for TV
Black Tone = Off - Dark for TV
Flesh Tone = 0
Color Space = Native, especially for HDR.
Gamma = 0


Picture Options:
Color Tone = Standard
Digital Clean View = Auto
MPEG Noise Filter = Auto
HDMI Black Level = Normal - Auto aka Low for TV
HDMI UHD Color = On HDMI 1 - Off for HDMI 2 (TV)
Auto Motion Plus = Smooth
Smart LED = High for SDR & HDR - Off for 3D - High for TV
Cinema Black = On

*Note* 3D is one mode. SDR is another mode. TV another. HDR is yet another mode. Each mode remembers its unique settings and do not apply to other modes. (You make settings during playback for each mode, so you are doing it 4 times and once completed, you never have to do it again)
Copy and paste this so you can add YOUR present settings before trying so you can easily revert if needed.
I see you're near me (foothills) but you're a little closer to Frys and Empire Best Buy
Thank you so very much for getting back to me! This is exactly what I was looking for. I'm actually using your UHD HDR thread to setup Kodi (linked in your sig) currently; once that is all set - I'll use this post as guidelines for the display settings.

Will report back once I have everything setup.

Thanks again!

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-05-2018, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
It appears Nvidia is encouraging us to use their 'use default color settings'. I often wondered why they added that as HDR began to take hold in HTPC's. So, I've recently started using it thinking HDMI EDID problems might be handled better as well as retaining settings after cold boots since this is what it defaults too when it occurs. The only other change I made was in my display going from FULL aka Normal aka 0-255 to AUTO. Calibration remained the same after checking. Desktop mode looks the same. Video mode looks the same. GUI's look the same, etc. 2D, 3D, SDR, and HDR behave properly. I have noticed SOME titles in PowerDVD fail to adapt to the new color space crushing blacks (black bars are not black) while others don't. Other players do not exhibit this so I believe it's confined to PDVD. It has other problems with resolution change on some mkv's as well but I usually use MPC or the Kodi video player anyway now that it reads menus. I think processors and memory are so fast in AVR's, GPU's and displays now, the extra conversion isn't detrimental. It's always going to end up at RGB limited 12bit dithered down to 10bit for video playback. As long as Desktop mode and Video mode can coincide, that's all I care about. Lastly, some displays prefer a color space. Mine doesn't. So on AUTO the display can adapt for a dedicated player, a GPU, a device, etc. with no manual intervention. I think this is why NVidia added the setting. So far, I'm good with it. I'd say experiment with the different color spaces and see how your environment reacts. Post your findings.
I just noticed this.

So are you saying, skip this altogether:

Quote:
Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.
And just select "Use default color settings" in the NCP below?



Thanks!

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JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-05-2018, 05:03 PM
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Yes. That's what I'm currently doing. If you use PDVD, I would use the other way. Either way works and is fine.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-05-2018, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Yes. That's what I'm currently doing. If you use PDVD, I would use the other way. Either way works and is fine.
Understood.

I did get a chance to refer to your settings above for my display and I have to say this is exactly what I was looking for. Selecting "PC" as the Device Type was the worst mistake.

As suggested, I switched to "Blu-ray" and followed your settings. Ultimately I did prefer "Natural" over "Standard" and tweaked a couple values to my liking, but by & large the above settings are golden, BOTH for media playback & PC Gaming. Both are displaying wonderfully.

I also set the above for my XBOX One S, which I primarily use as m 4K Blu-ray Disc player and for Amazon Prime Video (which includes 4K Media), rather then Gaming, as I game mostly on my PC.

Thanks again for these settings - it was the right pointer I was looking for.

I was trying to setup something with my playercorefactory xml file so I'll head over to your Kodi thread to ask that question.

Thanks!

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-07-2018, 09:01 AM
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Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for this.

Configuration: Win 10 (1709, build 16299.192) with GTX 1080ti -> Marantz NR1606 -> Panasonic TX-(75)EXW784, nVidia Drivers (388.31), new / checked HDMI 2.1 cables, players: MPC-BE (1.5.1 build 2985) with madVR (v0.92.10) / PowerDVD.

I have been looking for a solution for my HDR problems for 3 months now. Unfortunately, no solution found so far...
  1. 1. My problem is the - above all - the refresh rate: I cannot get 4k HDR @60Hz whatever I do. I followed the instructions as per above but as soon as [email protected] is selected in the NCP, I am not able to choose anything but 8bit (and 4-2-0 / limited).
  2. 2. Win 10 HDR option cannot be set to on if the refresh rate is 60Hz. I can switch the HDR option to on for 4k only @30Hz . I can get @60Hz only in 1080p.
  3. 3. PowerDVD seems to play the HDR in 4k material correctly, however no matter (no difference) the NCP manual settings or with if HDR is on or off in the Windows CP.

    Actually, quite comfortable as it always switches the TV to play at [email protected] and set automatically NCP to: 10bit / 4-2-2 / limited. It plays however HDR in 1080p @60Hz (and same NCP settings of 10bit / 4-2-2 / limited). Same with Kodi.
  4. 4. MCP (my preferable player*) does not play HDR at all. It freezes completely if HDR is off in Win CP or (if HDR is on which is possible only at [email protected] or [email protected]) displays very dark or bright (washed colours) scenes or changes the desktop (TV) to very dark after it (display settings restart needed).

*One could say, well… why not using PowerDVD. Firstly, it runs only in [email protected] or [email protected] Secondly due to other issues (external subtitles and their settings, sound settings, filters etc.).

Issues:
  1. 1. I have no idea how to get MCP run HDR at all.
  2. 2. How to get HDR played in [email protected] (ideally at 10 or even 12bit / RGB and full, if possible).
I have no issues with [email protected] as long as I do not play HDR.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

iid
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-07-2018, 09:59 AM
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Thanks for the insight, I'm new to the HDR struggles.

Do you make any changes to the video color settings? And also, I understand I should keep HDR on in windows' settings, but what about when I play a game with HDR options, should I turn them on too?
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-08-2018, 08:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelchior View Post
Thanks for the insight, I'm new to the HDR struggles.

Do you make any changes to the video color settings? And also, I understand I should keep HDR on in windows' settings, but what about when I play a game with HDR options, should I turn them on too?
Hi there! If you're asking regarding the values in this window:



I have Backlight at MAX (20), Contrast as MAX (100) and Color at 62.

I never keep the HDR Options at "On" in Windows System Panel. I find it really messes up the display - very faded and strange colors. I always leave that "Off" and from everything I've read everywhere, it's recommended to leave that "Off".

I'm using the the settings brazen1 shared, with some alterations & tweaks, for absolutely everything at this point:
4K HDR PC Gaming
4K HDR Media Playback (Rips)
4K HDR Blu-ray Disc Playback (XBOX One S)
1080p Media Playback
Blu-ray Disc Playback (XBOX One S)
Amazon Prime Video

Thanks!

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #17 of 21 Old 06-06-2018, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Reviving this thread at 6 months from last post, mainly due to:

- nVidia drivers have been updated & come a long way since Dec, 2017
- More HDR content has shown up, including in PC Gaming

HTPC has an equal usage between various sources:

- 1080p Video
- 4K UHD Video (Non-HDR)
- 4K UHD Video (HDR)
- 4K Gaming (Non-HDR)
- 4K Gaming (HDR)

Question rotates back to the very first question in thread.

Is it still best to leave "Use default color settings" in NCP for BOTH Video & Gaming, for all sources listed above?

Is this method still void:

Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.

Is there any benefit to using "Use NVIDIA Color Settings" option and selecting the options manually?

Thanks.

7.1.4: Polk RTi12 Fronts, RTi8 Surrounds, Monitor70 Surround Backs, CSi A6 Center, Klipsch R-14M Front Height & Rear Height + Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer.
JVC NX5 True 4K HDR Projector / Denon X6300H AVR
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post #18 of 21 Old 06-06-2018, 10:48 AM
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You can continue to


Select YCbCr422 and save.
Select 12bpc.
Select RGB.
Select FULL
Save.


if you don't notice any banding or if it doesn't bother you.


You can also just select RGB FULL and leave it at 8bits which should help with any banding if it's present. I don't use default nVidia settings any longer.


Fwiw, I continue to use driver v. 385.28 until the audio bug is addressed, if ever. This only affects those who routinely turn their AVR on/off using TV speakers when computing on the HTPC or AVR speakers when watching a movie and want the automation with no manual intervention changing settings. If it isn't automated, you must manually change Windows Audio Properties in order to play a youtube video or flash video for example.


Also, last I checked, 12bit setting does not retain after a reboot. With v. 385.28 it does.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey79 View Post
I recently purchased the Samsung UN65MU7000 4K UHD TV, to pair with my HTPC which sports a GTX 1080. The TV supports features like 4K HDR Pro, 4K Color Drive Pro, etc.

I’ve been able to understand the settings on the TV and as far as I know, have setup all the options correctly to get good 4K performance with HDR Pro.
I have the pretty much setup as yours, with the exception of having the GTX 1080TI GPU.
CPU : Intel i7-8700K
MotherBoard : Gigabyte Z370 Aorus Gaming 5 Motherboard
Memory : G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 32GB DDR4 3200Mhz

I havent found one single article here on other sites on how to setup an HTPC primarly for for 4K content. Most sites and youtube talks about optimizing a 4K PC for gaming. But not for multimedia.
As you mentioned that you have been able to understand the settings and have setup various options to setup the PC for 4K performance with HDR Pro.. can you please share more details on this? probably you've read this somewhere, or maybe spend some time to put up the details here on how to going about optimizing a 4K HTPC for multimedia with Nvidia Control panel and various other codecs, tools, etc
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post #20 of 21 Old 06-16-2018, 05:49 PM
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This post may be helpful. I put it together. You will have to check back for updates on whether or not Nvidia is actually capable of switching from 4K 8-bit at 60 Hz to 4K 12-bit at 30 Hz. The guide mentions this configuration, but some users say it doesn't work. So most of the information should be correct, but I might have to amend the last part.

How to Configure a Display and GPU for a HTPC
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post #21 of 21 Old 05-24-2019, 04:10 AM
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I am looking for some advice off people who use their PC's to game and or play movies on the a HDR TV (using a GTX1080)

I am aware of course that due to the HDMI standards you can only pick 2 out of the 3 ingredients for a perfect picture ie RGB, 60FPS, 10BIT HDR. So currently with my pc if i watch a movie i have my nvidea control panel set up as being on RGB, Full (not limited) and 12 bit HDR. That then plays back movies at 23.? etc FPS at 12 bit HDR .

however when i play a game at this setting my projector shows its only receiving an 8 bit signal.

I have tried using nvidea control to set output as 4:2:0 but my output colour space is stuck on limited and i have madvr set to receive PC full colour space so as my PC is outputting limited the Projected image is washed out.

just wondering what people who use pc's use as their output ie the default windows setting or do they use nvidea control and if so what settings

as i am using Madvr in the chain is there a setting to use for that as well
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