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post #61 of 88 Old 04-21-2018, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Herve View Post

I'm with the folks who think that disk media in general is already on life-support. The local Best Buy has only a tiny fraction of the number of UHD BDs or 1080 BDs or DVDs or, for that matter, audio CDs, that they used to "carry".
It's definitely on life support, and I'm as guilty as anybody. I was still buying discs up until recently when the Apple TV 4K come out. Now, even $6 rentals look phenomenal. Waiting for Atmos but there's Vudu UHD on my Samsung Blu-ray player if I want that, or I guess I could buy a new Roku.

Anyhow, I've found the overall quality of UHD streaming to be more than acceptable, even when projected. But, just two days ago I went to my local Best Buy and purchase a physical copy of Dredd on UHD Blu-ray. I watched half of it so far, it's a better experience with this level of fidelity, versus the last time I saw it. And what I noticed is that at my Best Buy at least, the selection of UHD Blu-rays has not shrunk, but everything else disc-based has. the 4K collection is holding its own, although it's now located in a back corner of the store—behind all the gaming gear—instead of in the center floor.

I plan to break my streak of simply buying the streaming version of a movie to watch it early for Black Panther. Now that I'm running 9.1.6 Atmos I want to get a maximalist experience (I skipped going to the theater) so I'm in the "only a disc will do" camp when it's a major movie, the home system is primed, etc. but I have slipped into complacency due to the ease and quality of UHD streaming many a time.

------------

Which leaves me wondering if I'm going to wind up using PowerDVD to watch movies (I already have 3 UHD BD players, so probably not) or if I am going to use the software to "pin" YouTube videos etc (gotta do something with it!).

But hey... what do I know. I gotta try this kit out and see what it's good for but not today... Sixers-Heat game at 2 PM.
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Last edited by imagic; 04-21-2018 at 10:14 AM.
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post #62 of 88 Old 04-21-2018, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
bigger PC can be made totally silent which is not possible for small powerful PCs.
the question was how to get a 1080 in a nuc and that's the answer.
and again you can play UHD BD through a 1080 you just need a tool to real time decrypt the disc.

i highly doubt streaming is killing the disk. it's the disk it self the stuff to play it and they didn't even bother to make it competitive the price of the disc alone even if you could play it any ware is killing it.
What if there were no streaming services-- like there didn't used to be just a relatively few years ago? TV, movie theaters and disks (or tapes, etc.) were the only options for high picture quality. Movie theaters were full and disks filled stores.

A revolution has take place.

The question is, do the "chain" of the producers of these disks want disks to survive? Do they have a vested interest in streaming services? If so, on which do they make more profit?

If the disk producers want to sell disks into the future, IMO all they have to do is lower their price.The "problem" is that disks can be viewed many, many times.

Many movies and TV stuff are now "shot" with video cameras. Post production and file-creation are done on computers. Is the final product going to be streamed or put on a disk? How much do the blank disks cost in volume? How much does it cost for a pile of disk writers to write the necessary files to those disks? How much does the case for the disk cost? Neglecting the cost of actors, shooting staff and post-production, add up the costs to the produceers for the total number of finished disks and divide that by the number of finished units ("assemblies"). Now compare that to the retail selling price.

Again, I believe that if the powers that be wanted to sell more disks, all they would have to do is lower the retail price and they would sell many more disks and make a good profit, regardless of the types of devices allowed to play them.

How badly do the videophiles want those disks?

To me, that decision has everything to do with content. So far we've bought 4 relatively expensive UHD disks and three of them are of old movies that look better in UHD than their predecessor 1080p versions. In short, the producers of UHD movies are going to have to lower prices dramatically in order to entice me into buying more disks that I can easily live without at the higher price.

Last edited by Herve; 04-21-2018 at 10:31 AM.
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post #63 of 88 Old 04-21-2018, 10:53 AM
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the cost of creating a disk is not relevant it's so cheap it doesn't matter. it's below 0.5 bucks for a writeable disc you can buy as a normal person a BD movie disk will cost even less.

what makes them expensive are the royalties.
everyone wants to make money from it and that's why it will die you can't make that cheaper without creating a new disk.
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post #64 of 88 Old 04-21-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
the cost of creating a disk is not relevant it's so cheap it doesn't matter. it's below 0.5 bucks for a writeable disc you can buy as a normal person a BD movie disk will cost even less.

what makes them expensive are the royalties.
everyone wants to make money from it and that's why it will die you can't make that cheaper without creating a new disk.
Would "they" make a profit if they sold a UHD BD commerial movie at say $10? If so, sell it for that. At that price I'll buy lots more disks, and so will many others.

If not, what is the lowest retail price to still make a profit?
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post #65 of 88 Old 04-21-2018, 12:18 PM
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i don't know the number but you can't avoid the royalties so most likely not.
royalties are brutal and you can't get around them you have to pay for everything you are using from dolby digital to HEVC and there is a high chance you have to pay royalties just to call it a blu ray. you need a new disk to make it a lot cheaper.
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post #66 of 88 Old 04-22-2018, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mightyhuhn View Post
i don't know the number but you can't avoid the royalties so most likely not.
royalties are brutal and you can't get around them you have to pay for everything you are using from dolby digital to HEVC and there is a high chance you have to pay royalties just to call it a blu ray. you need a new disk to make it a lot cheaper.
If disks go bye-bye, those that receive those royalities are going to lose everything. I'm sure they realize this. That should be adequate incentive to reduce those royalites dramatically .............unless, of course, those that benefit just happen to be the owners or investors in the streaming services, which IMO is a distinct possibility. So again back to the argument supporting the proposition that disks (and maybe movie theaters) are on life support ............... maybe intentionally so. Essentially, streaming services getting rid of the disk competition, then jack up subscriptions, go PPV, etc.

I'm trying to imagine a scheme to keep disks both alive and much less expensive that would not financially damage their producers. I'm thinking of something akin to vinyl records. I never knew anyone who made vinyl copies of records. However, those who wanted to keep their records pristine would buy a reel-to-reel tape recorder and record the analog output of the turntable's cartridge and then play the tape again and again. But what a PIA.

For commercial digital movies, how about a download service that would allow customers to download a huge commerical UHD movie file, only once, already decrypted, say in a MKV container, with the specific intent that the buyer could either burn it to a disk that could be played by computer optical drive / stand-alone player, or load it onto their server?

I suppose that the argument will be made that those who download the file could turn right around and "upload" it to millions of others, of course at a price. But the same argument could be made today about those who already rip UHD BDs and add the files to their servers. Are these people already uploading/selling to others? Frankly, I don't know. Can anyone answer this question?

Can a "digital signature" be placed within a dowloaded file so that if a computer tries to upload that file that that signature would be detected and that upload would be, for lack of a better expression, "squelched" or intentionally made uplayable or "undownloadable"? This limitation would be part of the contract that the initial buyer would have to agree to before downloading the file from the legitimate producer. I suppose this system could also be beaten by the initial buyer literally selling disks on the street or snail-mailing them rather than selling them via internet.

Even the streaming services are "vulnerable" to people sticking video cameras in front of their TVs and recording a movie or TV show and doing whatever with the resulting video file. Playback of that file will look pretty good on a small display for those more interested in content than PQ and audio quality --- also for those who don't want, or don't have the money, to pay for a streaming service. (If the streaming services manage to "corner the viewing market" -- in other words, drive all the competition out of business--- and jack up there prices dramatically, this phenomenon might actually become noticeable.)

Unlitmately, I guess the only way to rescue expensive commercial disks is for more, rather than fewer, people to buy expensive commercial disks. IMO the outlook isn't good. For the cost of one "hot" commercial UHD BD, you can buy a couple of months of essentially unlimited Netflix viewing. Which do you think is the better bang for the buck, especially at a typical viewing distance?

IMO, even conversations like the one on this thread are going to become increasingly rare, "behind the times" and irrelevant.
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post #67 of 88 Old 04-22-2018, 12:00 PM
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the royalties are spread so far you will never ever get everyone to agree on this...
and the market for the disk is all ready very small. so why should you try and save a dead horse?
the biggest problem is that nearly everything on a disk needs royalty pays they didn't add free alternatives like FLAC, VP9 which are as good or close to the expensive alternatives. i'm not even sure if PCM is royalties free but it should be...

if something is available on the big streaming platform someone will rip it (even lossless)or has already ripped it and this will not change anytime soon.

copyprotection has shown over and over again that it hurts the end user cost extra money and are at best buying you time until someone cracks it. on the other hand big production without copyprotection had no real problem and even used the "no DRM" as a selling point.

the witcher 3 sold extremely well because it is a good game has no copyprotetion that could end up in frustration and didn't use money grasp tactics.
other games joined the no DRM train and the popular one are doing perfectly great with this.

no you can not check if something you download get's uploaded without spying.
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post #68 of 88 Old 04-23-2018, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I plan to break my streak of simply buying the streaming version of a movie to watch it early for Black Panther. Now that I'm running 9.1.6 Atmos I want to get a maximalist experience (I skipped going to the theater) so I'm in the "only a disc will do" camp when it's a major movie, the home system is primed, etc. but I have slipped into complacency due to the ease and quality of UHD streaming many a time.
------------
Which leaves me wondering if I'm going to wind up using PowerDVD to watch movies (I already have 3 UHD BD players, so probably not) or if I am going to use the software to "pin" YouTube videos etc (gotta do something with it!).
Certainly a great movie to ensure you have maximum visual and audio quality. Especially given your audio setup and the fact that audio often (surprisingly) seems to be the most noticeably negatively impacted with streaming vs disc.

As for PowerDVD, the release is pointless other than perhaps to drive annual repeat sales. 18 is a near pointless release vs 17 overall but is completely pointless for UHD as they haven't improved anything. I have 17 as other applications didn't have menu support at the time but that isn't the case any longer. I wouldn't recommend the product to anyone for UHD over what others have suggested in this thread.
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post #69 of 88 Old 04-24-2018, 04:13 PM
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PowerDVD hasn't been good in 10 years. Its just bloatware that always crashes. It won't even let you play your own blu-rays from your hard drive
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post #70 of 88 Old 04-24-2018, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by IAM4UK View Post
It doesn't support Dolby Vision, and still no mention of Dolby Atmos. Also, it doesn't support discrete GPUs, even if they have the same HDCP and HDMI cred as Intel 630/640.
Some folks very definitely don't want Ultra HD Blu-Ray via PC to be a common thing...
Oh, it does indeed support ATMOS, *IF* your card supports it. Just watched NOW YOU SEE ME 2 with the ATMOS sound selected in the disk menu as well under audio options in the settings menu in Power DVD. (Not ATMOS, per se, but one of the PCM or HDMI options....when selected, enables ATMOS playback!

My graphics card is GTX 1050ti, 4g. It does not show ATMOS as a supported audio format, but shows everything else.
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post #71 of 88 Old 04-25-2018, 08:21 AM
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i remember using powerdvd in the 3.0 (or was it 2.0?) days when it was a couple megs big without all the bloat of later versions. it was once a good product that didnt lag my system regardless of specs. mpc-hc is all i need.
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post #72 of 88 Old 04-25-2018, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
It's definitely on life support, and I'm as guilty as anybody. I was still buying discs up until recently when the Apple TV 4K come out. Now, even $6 rentals look phenomenal.
[...]
Anyhow, I've found the overall quality of UHD streaming to be more than acceptable, even when projected. But, just two days ago I went to my local Best Buy and purchase a physical copy of Dredd on UHD Blu-ray. I watched half of it so far, it's a better experience with this level of fidelity, versus the last time I saw it.
It's insidious - you think streaming's great until you actually see it on disk. Only then do you realize how much you lost due to the stream. So for movies that benefit from the better PQ/Color/Sound, disks are the only way to go. Otherwise you're watching 4K through a fuzz (softening) filter at best.

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Certainly a great movie to ensure you have maximum visual and audio quality. Especially given your audio setup and the fact that audio often (surprisingly) seems to be the most noticeably negatively impacted with streaming vs disc.
Audio is impacted disproportionately because in general they drop to 5.1 DDPII, at least from what I've observed. Just recently upgraded to 4K streaming so will see if any of the services are higher than that on a regular basis.
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post #73 of 88 Old 04-26-2018, 10:02 AM
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Speaking of the streaming services that IMO have put disks on life-support, for those who think that the "Netflix" buttons on perhaps hundreds of millions of remotes will always take them to Netflix, do not read the following.

https://wolfstreet.com/2018/04/23/ju...o-8-4-billion/
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post #74 of 88 Old 04-26-2018, 11:49 AM
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Is there any way to make 23.976Hz switching work with mkv’s? It auto switches with my discs but all my mkv files play at 60Hz..

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post #75 of 88 Old 04-26-2018, 01:12 PM
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nearly every free player can do that just use a different one no need to use this abomination.
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post #76 of 88 Old 04-26-2018, 05:01 PM
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Apparently the streaming service Amazon Prime Video is going to be 20% more expensive real soon:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...p=hp1bt2,hp1bt

Here's a simple math problem. If "poor" Jeff decides to raise the annual subscription rate for his Prime Video service 20% each year for the next five years, what will the annual subscription rate be in five years? (Hint: !)
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post #77 of 88 Old 04-26-2018, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herve View Post
Apparently the streaming service Amazon Prime Video is going to be 20% more expensive real soon:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...p=hp1bt2,hp1bt

Here's a simple math problem. If "poor" Jeff decides to raise the annual subscription rate for his Prime Video service 20% each year for the next five years, what will the annual subscription rate be in five years? (Hint: !)
You do know that there is more to Prime than the video service right? I hardly even watch it with my membership and I've been a prime member for many years (before it had the streaming benefit).

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post #78 of 88 Old 05-14-2018, 06:08 PM
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LG's UHD-BD drives - both slim and regular-sized - are now widely available in online retail channels, including Amazon and NewEgg. If you're looking to upgrade or build a new HTPC, now is a good time to buy a drive. Soon, you can buy one of the new 4K notebooks being outed at Computex and upgrade the DVD-ROM with the slim drive to get a mobile 4K media machine. No word on an external drive, but LG loves those, so I'm sure one will appear soon.

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post #79 of 88 Old 05-21-2018, 07:14 AM
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Nvidia has pooped out a new GeForce 1050 with 3GB that will check the boxes for UHD-BD. Regardless, the 1050 TI is really the only Nvidia card that you should be buying for a basic 4K HTPC since it hits all the right spots for price and performance, though you can obviously buy this new 1050 if you're just wanting the most basic of configurations and don't want to spend the extra cheese on the TI. Nvidia still hasn't given an exact date for they will release UHD-BD certified drivers, but they did say some time in the second quarter (around Computex) and the release of this card - which meets the minimum requirements for a UHD-BD PC system - is a sign that they will release that driver shortly, especially with their next GPU series being launched shortly.
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post #80 of 88 Old 05-21-2018, 08:37 AM
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Update to build 1619 released.


Enhances compatibility with Windows 10 April 2018 Update
Enhances the HDR video playback compatibility on NVIDIA GPU platforms.
Minor bug fixes.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W
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post #81 of 88 Old 05-24-2018, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by brazen1 View Post
Update to build 1619 released.


Enhances compatibility with Windows 10 April 2018 Update
Enhances the HDR video playback compatibility on NVIDIA GPU platforms.
Minor bug fixes.
It definitely fixed the issue where on activating the mouse it would flicker from displaying HDR to SDR somehow even in 'advanced colour mode'. I have only watched one UHD move since the update but I still seem to experience 'blocking artifacts' once or twice during playback of a feature length movie. It is difficult to reproduce as it happens at random, it seems like powerdvd falls asleep after an hour while it's supposed to be rendering the next frame of the movie. I have not noticed the same issue with VLC, but VLC has its own unique issues with hardware acceleration.

Looks like im off to figure out the ins and outs of mpc-hc with mad-vr. If anyone has a good HDR and HDMI audio passthrough guides please share.
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post #82 of 88 Old 05-24-2018, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Oh man, I'm surprised at how many people have viewed this thread, I better get this HTPC up and running, lol.

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post #83 of 88 Old 05-24-2018, 10:06 AM
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AMD updated the GPU drivers again. Still no Vega, but Polaris GPUs are now officially covered for Netflix and should work well with that particular application. No word on whether or not these drivers work with PowerDVD to enable UHD-BD playback, but I figured they would make a point of it if it was a new thing. Sometimes you get lucky and things just work, but you know how it is.
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post #84 of 88 Old 07-15-2018, 12:32 PM
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Question No auto refresh rate change in PowerDVD 18???

Hello

I remember a few years ago when I used powerdvd 15 that when playing 24p video the grapic card changes refresh rate to 24Hz for best mode judder free. This is no longer the case with v18. I have a core i7 8700k, 16GB ram, GTX-1060m running win 10 64bit, latest Nvidia drivers, and still 24p videos are played at 60Hz with judder, unless I manually change the refresh rate from Nvidia control panel.

When I use Kodi on the very same PC, auto refresh rte works great with smooth picture...

Any suggestions? Tried contacting Cyberlink support,no answer after 20 days...

Thanks
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post #85 of 88 Old 07-15-2018, 01:58 PM
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PowerDVD has no problem playing 24fps full rip videos such as an iso at 24Hz. You adjust its pop up setting prompting you once to match refresh rates. After that it's automatic, first time every time. The resolution in NCP should always be as high as your display will go and the switch is automatic both starting and exiting a title. Altered discs such as main movie only mkv rips are a different story. Even then, I get no judder at 60Hz but my displays native refresh rate is 120Hz. 60Hz native rate would require 3:2 pulldown and that's where the problems start. Software players usually have some sort of smoothing algorithm for this mismatch if your display is only 60Hz though in my experience some judder always remains. PowerDVD has some advanced video enhancement settings such as true motion etc. although I've never used them. Those may help you if you fall into the 60Hz category. If your display is native 120Hz or higher, you have some adjustment(s) that are not harmonious.

HOW TO - Kodi 2D - 3D - UHD (4k) HDR Guide Internal & External Players
W10 1903 / MPC-BE\HC / PotPlayer / PowerDVD 19 / DVDFab Player 3 / KODI 19 videoplayer
GTX960 4GB / RGB Full 4:4:4 / 8bit Desktop mode =60Hz / 10/12bit Video mode = Matched Refresh rates IE 23,24,25,60Hz
65JS8500 UHD HDR 3D / Denon S720W
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post #86 of 88 Old 11-12-2018, 10:53 PM
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I've been buying Cyberlink products for years and I run my own audio HW review site. Well, I am a little disappointed in what Cyberlink has done over the past couple months. After one of the large Windows 10 updates about 3 months ago Cyberlink PowerDVD 17 Ultra would no longer play any videos in fullscreen mode! Cyberlink was and is still aware of this issue. I have contacted support only to be told it's a known issue and is being worked on. I am one that gets the small black box pop-up when you hit play and then nothing happens, I can't even play video in windowed mode! Yet Cyberlink blames Microsoft.

Jump ahead like 4 months and Cyberlink still hasn't fixed the issue AND they release a new version of their product!?!?!? Are you joking?? Who develops a new product before fixing the issues with the current version? To me it looks like a way to force people to upgrade in a sort of Apple-like fashion. I used to be a big supporter of this brand, but now I'm having second thoughts.

BTW I run a water cooled MSI GTX 1070 Armor with a 4.6 GHz I7 3770K + 32GB DDR3 2400, a Star Citizen rig and yet it's not enough for PowerDVD 17!!
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post #87 of 88 Old 11-13-2018, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed View Post
I've been buying Cyberlink products for years and I run my own audio HW review site. Well, I am a little disappointed in what Cyberlink has done over the past couple months. After one of the large Windows 10 updates about 3 months ago Cyberlink PowerDVD 17 Ultra would no longer play any videos in fullscreen mode! Cyberlink was and is still aware of this issue. I have contacted support only to be told it's a known issue and is being worked on. I am one that gets the small black box pop-up when you hit play and then nothing happens, I can't even play video in windowed mode! Yet Cyberlink blames Microsoft.

Jump ahead like 4 months and Cyberlink still hasn't fixed the issue AND they release a new version of their product!?!?!? Are you joking?? Who develops a new product before fixing the issues with the current version? To me it looks like a way to force people to upgrade in a sort of Apple-like fashion. I used to be a big supporter of this brand, but now I'm having second thoughts.

BTW I run a water cooled MSI GTX 1070 Armor with a 4.6 GHz I7 3770K + 32GB DDR3 2400, a Star Citizen rig and yet it's not enough for PowerDVD 17!!
Use either DVDFab Media Player or JRiver Media Center as your player.

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post #88 of 88 Old 11-15-2018, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LedHed View Post
BTW I run a water cooled MSI GTX 1070 Armor with a 4.6 GHz I7 3770K + 32GB DDR3 2400, a Star Citizen rig and yet it's not enough for PowerDVD 17!!
I had no issues with PDVD 17 (now on 18) and my current PC is spec'ed less than yours.


I'm sure you've tried completely uninstalling and reinstalling it?


When was the last time you did a clean Windows install?

My opinions do not reflect the policies of my company
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