Can an HTPC with madVR do everything the Oppo 203 or even 205 can do? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 28 Old 04-26-2018, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Can an HTPC with madVR do everything the Oppo 203 or even 205 can do?

Now that Oppo has decided to discontinue their 4K lines of players, I was wondering if i should join the "to be" rare component bandwagon and get the Oppo 203.
I have recently brought a 4K tv that supports dolby vision and hd10 and a compatible 4K receiver. I have always been a big time HTPC user, and have been using using Kodi for streaming BluRay content.

Now i am in the process of upgrading my HTPC, brought the i7-8700K CPU, Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 Motherboard, Gigabyte 1080TI Graphic Card. So with all overkill hardware, and the right software install (madvr etc) will i get everything that oppo high end models will deliver?
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post #2 of 28 Old 04-26-2018, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
Now that Oppo has decided to discontinue their 4K lines of players, I was wondering if i should join the "to be" rare component bandwagon and get the Oppo 203.
I have recently brought a 4K tv that supports dolby vision and hd10 and a compatible 4K receiver. I have always been a big time HTPC user, and have been using using Kodi for streaming BluRay content.

Now i am in the process of upgrading my HTPC, brought the i7-8700K CPU, Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 Motherboard, Gigabyte 1080TI Graphic Card. So with all overkill hardware, and the right software install (madvr etc) will i get everything that oppo high end models will deliver?
You won't get Dolby Vision support on PC. At least, not yet. I don't know what else you want madVR to do. There is a list of features and definitions in the link in my signature.

Ripping and playing 4K UHD discs is not that easy without a specific Blu-ray drive with the right firmware. There is another guide with this information in my signature.

Having the ability to use 3D LUTs is one feature the Oppo is likely lacking. I am sure there are others and the list of supported features goes both ways, I'm sure.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-27-2018, 07:27 AM
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What are you trying to use it for exactly? If you are just playing discs, then I would stick with the Oppo despite it being discontinued. Blu-ray disc playback on HTPCs has always been an inferior experience compared to a dedicated blu-ray player. Now if you're trying to play rips, then that's a different story. Then an HTPC would probably be a better choice (or something like an Nvidia Shield or Apple TV), and madVR can provide solid PQ.
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post #4 of 28 Old 04-27-2018, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
Now that Oppo has decided to discontinue their 4K lines of players, I was wondering if i should join the "to be" rare component bandwagon and get the Oppo 203.
I have recently brought a 4K tv that supports dolby vision and hd10 and a compatible 4K receiver. I have always been a big time HTPC user, and have been using using Kodi for streaming BluRay content.

Now i am in the process of upgrading my HTPC, brought the i7-8700K CPU, Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 Motherboard, Gigabyte 1080TI Graphic Card. So with all overkill hardware, and the right software install (madvr etc) will i get everything that oppo high end models will deliver?
NO!

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post #5 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow you guys are motivating me to shell 600 usd for the oppo.
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post #6 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
Wow you guys are motivating me to shell 600 usd for the oppo.
A big plus for the OPPO was always software and firmware updates and customer support. The Oppo might be worth $600 if you use some legacy audio formats. Otherwise, you might take a look at the Panasonic dmp-ub9000 for about $450. The player is new, I have no experience with it. If you are interested give it some reviews research.

It strikes me that the future of formats and players is unclear at the moment. If my OPPO UDP-203 or my LG OLED 65e6p failed today I am not sure what I would buy. And I think there are to many complications and costs with a HTPC solution.

But, this is just my opinion.

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post #7 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post
Blu-ray disc playback on HTPCs has always been an inferior experience compared to a dedicated blu-ray player.
Care to elaborate further, as to why you feel that disk playback is inferior via a htpc?
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post #8 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Care to elaborate further, as to why you feel that disk playback is inferior via a htpc?
There are variety of reasons. I'm going to talk specifically about official UHD blu-ray support on the PC with full menu support, etc. If you just want non-UHD blu-rays, it's not quite as terrible. First of all, software choices are limited. PowerDVD AFAIK is the only major software solution now for UHD blu-ray playback. Next is that the hardware/software requirements are extensive. Next off is general complexity and cost. This Anandtech article has some more info: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12171...ray-and-more/9. I've been on this forum for a while, and the general consensus seems to be that if you simply want to play blu-ray discs, a dedicated hardware player will always be a simpler and more reliable solution.
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post #9 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 08:16 AM
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Grey market decryption exists. But you are limited to DVDFab Player if you want menu support. Free media players with madVR will also play discs, but not every disc and not with menu support.

If you want to rip discs, then clearly the HTPC would be better.
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post #10 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 10:27 AM
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The OP has stellar computer hardware in hand already, which makes a Pioneer BDR-211UBK
(that comes with PowerDVD 14 with UHD oem software,) a $130 upgrade. But we could throw
in a copy of PowerDVD 18 and still spend substantially less then a 203.

Not that I don't think an Oppo 203 is a bad idea... It is a very safe choice (if future support being as promised).
But an on sale $150 Sony UBP-X800 is a pretty solid choice also.


I've been around a while also. I was more curious why the perception that a htpc can't be reliable, nor edge out a dedicated
player? That's not necessarily true, but I do appreciate the simplicity and ease of a dedicated player.

If "I" personally want to play 4K disks, there's no 4K dedicated player..... HTPC -> MOTU 1248 -> amps. The
htpc also drives a digital movie poster light box, and I want it to control a single upper mask control for a 16x9
AT screen, which is to be a future project.

I would sell my Oppo 105 off, if it didn't have the ability to rip my SACD collection.
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post #11 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 10:35 AM
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An upgrade offer just came in my email...
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post #12 of 28 Old 04-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post
Now that Oppo has decided to discontinue their 4K lines of players, I was wondering if i should join the "to be" rare component bandwagon and get the Oppo 203.
I have recently brought a 4K tv that supports dolby vision and hd10 and a compatible 4K receiver. I have always been a big time HTPC user, and have been using using Kodi for streaming BluRay content.

Now i am in the process of upgrading my HTPC, brought the i7-8700K CPU, Gigabyte z370 Aorus Gaming 7 Motherboard, Gigabyte 1080TI Graphic Card. So with all overkill hardware, and the right software install (madvr etc) will i get everything that oppo high end models will deliver?
I have the Oppo 203 and a HTPC with a MSI GTX 1080 running MadVR on Win10, on 4K HDR content the Oppo is my preferred platform, the specular hightlights and shadow detail is superior, the overall dynamic range of the HTPC is lower.

DVD and BluRay is about equal to the Oppo.

Basically I can see more stuff in each 4K HDR scene with the Oppo, did not notice it until I switched back to the HTPC.

MadVR is running the NGU Standard Medium Quality Chroma + SuperRes upsampling with RGB 0-255 output.

GTX1080 is the bottleneck, GPU load >50%, the PQ on MadVR improves and gets closer to the Oppo if I increase the processing, by the time the PQ is identical I am burning close to 90% GPU on 23.9 Hz, 59.9Hz processing is beyond the capabilities of the GTX 1080 if it is to match the Oppo.

This is just with MadVR doing colorspace expansion, no luma upscaling on 4K material.

Perhaps the next gen GTX1180 will do better.

TV is a LG OLED 65C7, CPU is a Core i3-530, it never gets above 50% CPU as nearly all of the work is done by the GPU.

Dolby Vision on UltraHD BD streams cannot be decoded by the PC, however it adds an incremental quality improvement to 4K Ultra HD blurays, I consider it a nice to have.

Its main impact is on lower bitrate streams like Netflix, there the difference is almost night and day but this is outside the scope of the original question.
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post #13 of 28 Old 04-29-2018, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post
I have the Oppo 203 and a HTPC with a MSI GTX 1080 running MadVR on Win10, on 4K HDR content the Oppo is my preferred platform, the specular hightlights and shadow detail is superior, the overall dynamic range of the HTPC is lower.
Assuming a 1:1 4K UHD rip, your findings seems different than the reports in this "Improving Madvr HDR to SDR mapping for projector" thread.

I may be wrong, but as you are using an OLED, the HDR "rendering" is handled by the OLED, and not by the Oppo or the HTPC.
By the contrary, on the thread i mentioned, when its the HTPC vs Oppo (or other player) performing the HDR tone mapping, there is a clear advantage to the HTPC (moreover as the tone mapping on the Oppo is flawed atm).

Also, there are a few advanced users, such @Javs , that are using the HTPC+madVR as i assume it provides the best picture quality when paired with a projector.
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post #14 of 28 Old 04-29-2018, 04:48 AM
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HTPC using MadVR is far superior to what the Oppo is doing. The sharpening features of the Oppo are rubbish, they are way too heavy handed and coarse and would better suit a 1080p image, as with UHD images they just actually lessen the detail I can see, peoples faces become horrible and overcooked even on +1. MadVR's NGU is an incredible algorithm far better than anything else I have seen. Its true you need a lot of power to run the MadVR algorithms but if you set it up right it will work very well, the problem is you have SO many options that you can easily do too much.

MadVR's tone mapping is also now finally good. Its also actually properly outputting BT2020 which the Oppo tone mapping is not doing due to bugs which have still not been fixed a month later.

You can actually highly customise the way it does its tone mapping too, you can use many different algorithms and even make your own curves, its also dynamic, which means it can measure each frame on a rolling average and will be able to dynamically adapt its curve to the content, this is pretty much what Dolby Vision does.

There are new builds and support is far more readily available than the Oppo, even on this forum at times.

HTPC and MadVR requires rips of your discs to work properly, but paired with Kodi, once you go that route, you will never turn back. I have the Panasonic UB900 as my personal unit, I have tested the Oppo 203 in my room for a week, I haven't even turned on my Panasonic in weeks, MadVR all the way.

I could go on, but I have better things to do
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post #15 of 28 Old 04-29-2018, 04:56 AM
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Here's the minimum requirements for UHD or Pioneer's BDR-211UBK.

And a picture of the oem software provided with the drive.
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post #16 of 28 Old 04-29-2018, 05:34 AM
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JTR is demoing it's speakers on a htpc front end. No Oppo in that rack, nor a prepro/avr.

The Savoy is running a htpc, and is loaded with all kinds of impressive lessons, that came with some
seat time in there.

One can also can throw htpc cpu horsepower at DIRAC or Audiolense, for room eq filters.

At this point, the only thing stopping me from ripping everything and hosting on a server, is my media collection is
massive enough, that the required hard drives would be dollar competition against new media, and also beat down
my "next projector" budget. So I am going to settle for a server that is mostly leftovers, and some used purchases,
plus 3 or 4 Easy Store 8 TB shucked drives.
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post #17 of 28 Old 04-29-2018, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Here's the minimum requirements for UHD or Pioneer's BDR-211UBK.

And a picture of the oem software provided with the drive.
You dont need any of that PC hardware if you rip your discs, which is what you would need to do in order to use MadVR in the first place.

All you need is a 'friendly' UHD drive and MakeMKV.

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post #18 of 28 Old 04-30-2018, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post
There are variety of reasons. I'm going to talk specifically about official UHD blu-ray support on the PC with full menu support, etc. If you just want non-UHD blu-rays, it's not quite as terrible. First of all, software choices are limited. PowerDVD AFAIK is the only major software solution now for UHD blu-ray playback. Next is that the hardware/software requirements are extensive. Next off is general complexity and cost. This Anandtech article has some more info: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12171...ray-and-more/9. I've been on this forum for a while, and the general consensus seems to be that if you simply want to play blu-ray discs, a dedicated hardware player will always be a simpler and more reliable solution.
I played the Oblivian UHD Bluray through my LG UP875 with full HDR support fed to a Vivitek HK2288 Projector with a 110" screen. I switched imputs between my HTPC playing the 1080p bluray file, being played back via JRiver 24, SVP, and MadVr.....the PC destroyed the LG UP875!!!
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post #19 of 28 Old 04-30-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
You dont need any of that PC hardware if you rip your discs, which is what you would need to do in order to use MadVR in the first place.

All you need is a 'friendly' UHD drive and MakeMKV.
I do have a friendly UHD drive in the new desktop, for that purpose. (Just lucked out there, already had a pair of suitable drives on hand....)

I personally do need a 4K drive in the dedicated htpc. I don't ever see myself ripping the current media collection. That would be both seriously cool and seriously
expensive, enough to be in direct dollar competition with a new 4K pj and/or new media purchases.

I am covering the cool factor with a new media server build. Pretty much all either used or upgrade leftovers, and plan to cap things at 5-6 8TB drives (new drives though).
That won't make much of a dent in the media collection, but it also won't make much of a dent in the wallet, or my future upgrade plans either.
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post #20 of 28 Old 04-30-2018, 09:49 AM
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It should be stated that madVR won't "destroy" disc players when playing UHD discs, unless you are using forms of artifact removal or adding a 3D LUT.

Playing native 4K UHD content should be like passthrough if you are just relying on chroma upscaling for image scaling and nothing else. The poster who said the Oppo displays so much more detail seems to be implying the display is tone mapping the sources differently. I don't know how that is possible. The output between players should be pretty identical if configured correctly.

Projector owners who want to use madVR's tone mapping may get more mileage with 4K UHD playback. The two should be equal, though. madVR with basic settings isn't doing any forms of magic to the image. If you want that, you have to start tweaking settings, and you may end up with a worse image or better image depending on your tastes.
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post #21 of 28 Old 12-18-2018, 08:53 AM
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Going to do some light Thread resurrection here.

What are you guys using for UHD drives?

I was thinking of grabbing this one.

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/P...u-ray+Playback
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post #22 of 28 Old 12-19-2018, 05:25 AM
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I'd wait for these drives to be supported by MakeMKV next year: https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewto...p?f=16&t=18346

Trying to play UHD legally is a losing proposition.
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post #23 of 28 Old 01-04-2019, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tong Chia View Post
I have the Oppo 203 and a HTPC with a MSI GTX 1080 running MadVR on Win10, on 4K HDR content the Oppo is my preferred platform, the specular hightlights and shadow detail is superior, the overall dynamic range of the HTPC is lower.

DVD and BluRay is about equal to the Oppo.

Basically I can see more stuff in each 4K HDR scene with the Oppo, did not notice it until I switched back to the HTPC.

MadVR is running the NGU Standard Medium Quality Chroma + SuperRes upsampling with RGB 0-255 output.

GTX1080 is the bottleneck, GPU load >50%, the PQ on MadVR improves and gets closer to the Oppo if I increase the processing, by the time the PQ is identical I am burning close to 90% GPU on 23.9 Hz, 59.9Hz processing is beyond the capabilities of the GTX 1080 if it is to match the Oppo.

This is just with MadVR doing colorspace expansion, no luma upscaling on 4K material.

Perhaps the next gen GTX1180 will do better.

TV is a LG OLED 65C7, CPU is a Core i3-530, it never gets above 50% CPU as nearly all of the work is done by the GPU.

Dolby Vision on UltraHD BD streams cannot be decoded by the PC, however it adds an incremental quality improvement to 4K Ultra HD blurays, I consider it a nice to have.

Its main impact is on lower bitrate streams like Netflix, there the difference is almost night and day but this is outside the scope of the original question.
So, do you still feel on the LG OLED (I have a 65B7) that the 4K HDR is better on the Oppo? Have you tried sending the HTPC through the HDMI input of the Oppo to adjust it in similar fashion with Oppo's controls? I was enjoying Infuse app on Apple TV 4K over the Oppo until I adjusted sharpness(+3), contrast(+4), and brightness(+3) on the Oppo preset to get a better image from the Oppo. This got the pictures close with an edge clearly to the Oppo.

I'm also seeing some odd results when comparing HDR disc of the Labyrinth with its Dolby Vision version on iTunes. I toned down the settings above (they were even higher) because the film grain was spectacular on the disc. With the DV iTunes Labyrinth its all fixed and the image overall is better despite the iTunes probably having a much, much lower bitrate. (Much prefer the Atmos of the disc fyi).

I've got over 300 Dolby Vision titles, but still want the most from HDR especially when faced with decision like on Labyrinth where better picture might be had on iTunes, but the disc is just better for sound with dolby truehd Atmos besting its lesser cousins, PCM and DD+ Atmos.

note: I'm using DV calibration file and best HDR and SDR settings I can find on avsforum and elsewhere. TV has not been professionaly calibrated for any of these modes, but the recommended settings have provided large improvements.

I've already started buying parts for HTPC, but want to get the right video card for my needs. If hdmi passthrough is the only valid choice for OLED users, then this might allow some initially skimping on the video card as I'm not watching a lot of HD movie content with the 400 or so 4K titles in the library. Later when prices get better, maybe a premium used card might be right.

I've been impressed by madVR in the past on my 3D laptop with ATI Mobility Radeon HD 6850 discrete graphics with 1024-MB of GDDR5 dedicated video memory. I'm thinking that just about any video card would beat that so I'd probably enjoy blurays on cheap HTPC that can't use the higher settings.

HDMI Gone Wild - Audio HDMI Chains: (min. upmixed Atmos) Sony X700(Vudu, etc.)
Oppo UDP-203-->LG OLED65B7 and SamsungK950 (4K Atmos discs and files + 2 more subs!)
XboxOneS-->K950 (DTS discs, 2K files, Fandango 2K DTSHD)
ATV4K-->AVRkey-->XboxOneS-->K950 (iTunes and Vudu atmos, &Infuse - dd5.1)
Roku Premiere+-->Oppo UDP-203-->K950(Fandango and MA HDR, DD+)
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post #24 of 28 Old 01-05-2019, 06:18 AM
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I think you will get more or less the same 4K HDR image from the Oppo and madVR. Upscaled content can look considerably better with a HTPC. If you chose to use a bunch of the image enhancements or madVR's tone mapping, you could make the image appear different enough, good or bad.
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post #25 of 28 Old 02-24-2019, 10:45 PM
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Hi,

After going through this thread and also Javs's comments , i am inclined to build a HTPC for myself , i have the oppo clone the cambridge audio cxuhd bluray player and often felt that the Pq on 4k content was lacking detail and sharpness , also i have the Calman 5 sw and could be able to to do autocal with the Madvr and load the 3d lut which i am sure would improve the pq in my setup as i have the jvc X7900 projector .

I have to state that i am a complete noob and have gone through onkyoman's very informative guide for building a 4k HTPC in relation to which i have a few questions , i mostly watch 4k content and Hdr and the goal here is to get a better PQ than the cambridge audio player and it will not be used for gaming at all, purely HTPC.

1 ) do i need to rip all contents to mkv format to get the benefits of madvr or it can handle all other rip formats ( i have the LG bluray ripper)

2) Core i5 or i7

3) GTX 1660 6GB / RTX 2060 / GTX 1080 Ti (which one to get for 4k and hdr to achieve my purpose )

4)Memory 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) 3000 MHz DDR4, Dual- / Quad-Channel or should i get the 8 gb as recommended if there is no additional benefit in going for the 64 Gb

any input would be highly appreciated .

Thanks

Storm I.ISP 3D.16.12.ELITE , Jvc X7900be , cxuhd bluray player And PSB speakers Dolby Atmos 11.4

Last edited by faiz; 02-24-2019 at 10:52 PM.
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post #26 of 28 Old 02-25-2019, 06:04 AM
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Try the build guide in my signature.
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post #27 of 28 Old 03-13-2019, 03:19 PM
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I agree with the "inferior experience" comment, to the extent that playing the actual disc on a pc is frustrating and does not always work - particularly with Power DVD. The only acceptable solution that worked for me was anydvd hd in combination with mpc hc and even then I had problems playing @ 1 in every 4/5 discs. However, I could not agree more with Javs comments: if you are going pc you gotta rip and if you do the video quality is better than the oppo - as Javs states, there is no turning back. And taking into account that oppo 205's are selling on the secondary market for north of 2,000, the pc is clearly the better value. But the huge advantage of the pc over the oppo is the audio. Once decrypted and ripped, I can send full hd audio to any external dac I want - including those that trounce the dac in the 205. You can't do that with a player due to copy protection - only lossless to an external dac via hdmi - which is a lousy connection for audio and the hdmi dacs are not high quality. The ripped blu ray hd audio sent to my highly modified tube dac via usb is phenomenal.
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post #28 of 28 Old 03-13-2019, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faiz View Post
Hi,

After going through this thread and also Javs's comments , i am inclined to build a HTPC for myself , i have the oppo clone the cambridge audio cxuhd bluray player and often felt that the Pq on 4k content was lacking detail and sharpness , also i have the Calman 5 sw and could be able to to do autocal with the Madvr and load the 3d lut which i am sure would improve the pq in my setup as i have the jvc X7900 projector .

I have to state that i am a complete noob and have gone through onkyoman's very informative guide for building a 4k HTPC in relation to which i have a few questions , i mostly watch 4k content and Hdr and the goal here is to get a better PQ than the cambridge audio player and it will not be used for gaming at all, purely HTPC.

1 ) do i need to rip all contents to mkv format to get the benefits of madvr or it can handle all other rip formats ( i have the LG bluray ripper)

2) Core i5 or i7

3) GTX 1660 6GB / RTX 2060 / GTX 1080 Ti (which one to get for 4k and hdr to achieve my purpose )

4)Memory 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) 3000 MHz DDR4, Dual- / Quad-Channel or should i get the 8 gb as recommended if there is no additional benefit in going for the 64 Gb

any input would be highly appreciated .

Thanks
Thanks Onkyoman,


have started the process of building it , just if you could help me with the below mentioned query



1 ) do i need to rip all contents to mkv format to get the benefits of madvr for hdr or it can handle all other rip formats ( i have the LG bluray ripper)

Storm I.ISP 3D.16.12.ELITE , Jvc X7900be , cxuhd bluray player And PSB speakers Dolby Atmos 11.4
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