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post #1 of 12 Old 09-09-2018, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Ryzen 2400G and DRM/4K Netflix

I am strongly leaning towards using a 2400G (without adding a discrete card) for my new HTPC but I am concerned with the DRM...looking to stream Netflix 4k.

Three simple questions which I am having trouble finding a straight answer on:
  1. Does the Ryzen 2400G support HDCP 2.2?
  2. Does the Ryzen 2400G support PlayReady 3.0?
  3. Does the Ryzen 2400G support UHD Bluray playback?

In my research I found the article below which hints to the fact that PlayReady 3.0 was added with 18.5.1 driver but it's unclear to me if this was just for the RX GPUs or the Vega chips in the 2400G as well...
https://www.pcgamer.com/amds-radeon-...lix-streaming/

For UHD playback it seems Kaby Lake is needed with SGX, article below
https://www.cyberlink.com/support/pr...Id=-1&keyword=

Thank you!
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-09-2018, 06:42 AM
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UHD-BD certification for recent AMD GPUs hasn't happened yet and it was supposed to happen by this time. The Intel security debacle with their hardware has set things back for certification of new hardware, so it's going to be a waiting game for AMD and Intel is cooking up SGX 2.0 for their future hardware to use while AMD tries to figure out what they can do at this point with their own hardware. The recent AMD desktop GPUs are certified for PlayReady 3.0, but not for UHD-BD playback. The AMD APUs and their GPUs are not certified for PlayReady 3.0 at this time and there is no current information on when that will change due to the Intel problem causing a panic. Nobody is really pushing 4K AIOs or laptops with AMD APUs at this time and there's not much consumer demand for it yet, so it's not a big deal at the moment.
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post #3 of 12 Old 09-09-2018, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
UHD-BD certification for recent AMD GPUs hasn't happened yet and it was supposed to happen by this time. The Intel security debacle with their hardware has set things back for certification of new hardware, so it's going to be a waiting game for AMD and Intel is cooking up SGX 2.0 for their future hardware to use while AMD tries to figure out what they can do at this point with their own hardware. The recent AMD desktop GPUs are certified for PlayReady 3.0, but not for UHD-BD playback. The AMD APUs and their GPUs are not certified for PlayReady 3.0 at this time and there is no current information on when that will change due to the Intel problem causing a panic. Nobody is really pushing 4K AIOs or laptops with AMD APUs at this time and there's not much consumer demand for it yet, so it's not a big deal at the moment.
So you're saying:

1. ?
2. No
3. No

From what I have read HDCP 2.2 is supported but without PlayReady 3.0 we are still unable to stream 4K Netflix.

At first the 2400G seemed like the optimal solution since it can do 4k/60Hz onboard but with all the DRM issues it doesn't seem like a clear cut winner...

The way I see it now my choice is as follows:

AMD: Handles 4k/60Hz (HDMI 2.0) onboard but cannot handle the DRM required for 4k Netflix or UHD
Intel: Handles the DRM for 4k Netflix and UHD but cannot output 4k/60Hz over the HDMI port. (Can work via DP->HDMI with the LSPCON conversion)

This leaves me with the conclusion that the only way to stream 4k Netflix would be to get the Intel chip + a discrete GPU (1050 Ti for example). Or I could stick with the AMD APU, use the HTPC to play non DRM content and use the built in TV app to stream Netflix 4k...

Any thoughts/corrections?
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-10-2018, 04:39 AM
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There simply is no optimal choice for UHD HTPC functionality other than to build an expensive Intel + Nvidia box. To be frank, I shall not bother with a PC until HDMI 2.1 - which is the first HDMI revision designed with PCs in mind - arrives in GPUs, but many seem to want to charge down that road, regardless of all the problems you'll find going that way right now. I would definitely not bother with 4K streaming on a PC since the quality you get from a Smart UHDTV or UHD-BD player or Fire TV is going to be far better. Next year, we'll have HDMI 2.1 for 4K PC output, but the whole DRM mess is a big unknown at this time and not something that anyone in the industry is talking about openly.
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-10-2018, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Are there any plans to have HDMI 2.1 on the intel iGPU or within the AMD APUs? Intel can't seem to manage to get HDMI 2.0 on there so I doubt HDMI 2.1 will come anytime soon. Maybe the next gen of Ryzen APUs would get 2.1?

If not, when can we expect a budget GPU with hdmi 2.1?
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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HDMI 2.1 is an unknown with GPUs at this point, as the HDMI hardware has to be built into the GPU itself. In the early days of HDMI, separate chipsets were used, but that drove per-unit costs up and there were all sorts of issues, so things got baked into the GPU instead. HDMI 2.1 should start showing up in A/V products late next year, if certification and chipsets are available, but it's impossible to say if any upcoming GPUs will have it and if they do, they might not fully support the updated features of 2.1. I don't expect Intel to have it on their GPUs until the new architecture for their discrete GPU arrives and AMD probably won't have it until they start putting HBM onto their performance APUs. Nvidia doesn't have any HDMI 2.1 stuff at this point and is focused on DisplayPort gaming cards.

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post #7 of 12 Old 09-10-2018, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info.

Last time I wanted to build an HTCP (end of 2016/early 2017) I spent my time waiting around for a good onboard HDMI 2.0 solution, this was pre-Ryzen 2400G. Now that this option is available I think I will stick to my original plan and build it with the 2400G. Of course I could wait until HDMI 2.1 but I feel like this cycle will go on forever if I keep waiting for the next standard to be in place.

The Ryzen will do what I need, and hopefully in the near future they will get PlayReady 3.0 going so I can stream Netflix 4k. Until then I can use the built in TV app to stream it. I don't see myself needing to play any UHD discs on the HTPC so that's not really a factor.
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-22-2018, 02:32 AM
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Why did you state that Netflix streaming quality is far better on those listed media devices than on a capable HTPC, what would be the reason for this?

And why do you think that HDMI 2.1 would be so important or so much better than HDMI 2.0a for any HTPC purpose?

There will be e-ARC, Variable Frame Rate and Seamless Frame Rate Switching that I'm aware of, these would be those reasons? And beside, you will than also need a HDMI 2.1 capable AVR and display to gain any of these advantages.

(I'm not scoffing, just curious).
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post #9 of 12 Old 12-28-2018, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Mount81 View Post
Why did you state that Netflix streaming quality is far better on those listed media devices than on a capable HTPC, what would be the reason for this?

And why do you think that HDMI 2.1 would be so important or so much better than HDMI 2.0a for any HTPC purpose?

There will be e-ARC, Variable Frame Rate and Seamless Frame Rate Switching that I'm aware of, these would be those reasons? And beside, you will than also need a HDMI 2.1 capable AVR and display to gain any of these advantages.

(I'm not scoffing, just curious).
Probably what people mean that STB (set-top-boxes) is better because it uses the correct color space for the content. Windows, for example, use RGB. Windows can output to illuminance and chrominance, but this depends on the graphics driver and usually buried in the settings.

(Initializing Scoffing/Ranting)
People don't want to do research. What I have found.

* Intel processors based on Kaby Lake and newer is still hardware limited to HDMI 1.4
* Motherboard manufacturers that advertise HDMI 2.0 for Intel (Chipset 200 or above) uses DisplayPort to HDMI converter
* Using DisplayPort to HDMI converter may work on most TV
* Stagnate CPU production from both Intel and AMD

It's best to test the UHD HTPC in a lab before putting in production. UHD HTPC still early adoption technology, so stop whining. I have 4K TV and Radeon RX 580. I still use 1080p. I prefer DVD over Blu-ray because DVD is easier to playback. What is your problem people?

From my experience use what works best not is the best.
(/Initializing Scoffing/Ranting)
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post #10 of 12 Old 01-04-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
Stagnate CPU production from both Intel and AMD
Sorry for the intrusion, but huh? I mean, the hypetrain around 7nm Zen2 Ryzen 3000 stuff is starting to get a bit crazy recently in PC hardware circles on the lead up to AMD's upcoming CES keynote on the 9th...
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post #11 of 12 Old 01-07-2019, 05:46 PM
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Sorry for the intrusion, but huh? I mean, the hypetrain around 7nm Zen2 Ryzen 3000 stuff is starting to get a bit crazy recently in PC hardware circles on the lead up to AMD's upcoming CES keynote on the 9th...
I'm not giddy about the processor because it's still stagnating. If the second generation Zen microarchitecture doesn't have SGX, then there's nothing better than right now. Being realistic on a business point of view, AMD has to support MMX or else be left behind. AMD has to support SSE or else left behind. AMD has to support AVX or else left behind. AMD has to support SGX or else left behind. SGX is required by AACS 2.0 in order to playback UHD Blu-ray straight from the disc. A 7 nm is nothing that businesses use. Businesses look at the instructions that the processor supports. If it missed any instructions that their programs use, that processor is not being considered.

Cyberlink would have to have two teams of developers and testers to support both Intel i-core (Kaby Lake or higher) and AMD Ryzen to include Ryzen support in PowerDVD. If they do this, the cost of PowerDVD will be double or $200 (US). Will people pay for this even though PowerDVD normally costs around $100 (US).

Netflix 4K has different requirements. The web browser has to support PlayReady 3.0 and graphics drivers have to support PlayReady 3.0. Vega graphics supports PlayReady 3.0 but requires certain driver versions. Raven Ridge processors such as Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G are included in the drivers that support PlayReady 3.0. Not all motherboards are wired or traced well to handle HDMI 2.0b or 4K at 60 Hz or in simpler terms they are not certified for HDMI 2.0b.
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post #12 of 12 Old 01-07-2019, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tecknurd View Post
I'm not giddy about the processor because it's still stagnating. If the second generation Zen microarchitecture doesn't have SGX, then there's nothing better than right now. Being realistic on a business point of view, AMD has to support MMX or else be left behind. AMD has to support SSE or else left behind. AMD has to support AVX or else left behind. AMD has to support SGX or else left behind. SGX is required by AACS 2.0 in order to playback UHD Blu-ray straight from the disc. A 7 nm is nothing that businesses use. Businesses look at the instructions that the processor supports. If it missed any instructions that their programs use, that processor is not being considered.

Cyberlink would have to have two teams of developers and testers to support both Intel i-core (Kaby Lake or higher) and AMD Ryzen to include Ryzen support in PowerDVD. If they do this, the cost of PowerDVD will be double or $200 (US). Will people pay for this even though PowerDVD normally costs around $100 (US).

Netflix 4K has different requirements. The web browser has to support PlayReady 3.0 and graphics drivers have to support PlayReady 3.0. Vega graphics supports PlayReady 3.0 but requires certain driver versions. Raven Ridge processors such as Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400G are included in the drivers that support PlayReady 3.0. Not all motherboards are wired or traced well to handle HDMI 2.0b or 4K at 60 Hz or in simpler terms they are not certified for HDMI 2.0b.
You mean HDMI 2.0a not b..? Version HDMI 2.0a fulfilles the requirements for 4K / 60Hz / HDR. In many cases it will be only the matter of intention and a simple BIOS update to make HDMI 1.4 "certified" motherboards HDMI 2.0a capable, as there are already examples for this (even if the motherboards product page will continue to stuck at saying "HDMI 1.4 and 4K / 30Hz only").

Anyway: I have read lot's of complain with the Raven APU's regarding various driver problems, like freezing and blank screens during YT video playback. Anyone here perceived such problems?
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