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-   -   Drive shucking 8TB WD My Book external drives? (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/26-home-theater-computers/3044558-drive-shucking-8tb-wd-my-book-external-drives.html)

ShoutingMan 01-20-2019 04:51 PM

Drive shucking 8TB WD My Book external drives?
 
Is shucking 8TB Western Digital My Book external hard drives still a recommended method to get Red drives cheaper than buying internal drives?

BestBuy and Amazon routinely have the drives for $170 and below.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/wd-my-b...?skuId=5605510

But I've seen some scattered reports that the Red drives become white label drives with more variability in whether they're actually Red in disguise. And some other comments about the drives requiring additional surgery to make them compatible with a SATA interface.

My 10TB HTPC storage (3x5TB with single disk parity) is full (200GB free). This year I'll have to decide whether to add capacity, or to keep the HTPC as is and move to online streaming (Movies Anywhere) for future 4K purchases. The decision will be informed by whether I'm spending $160 per 8 TB or $270 per 8 TB (the price of WD Red internal drives).

Appreciate any insights, advice, or commiseration. :)

audit13 01-20-2019 05:22 PM

The WD Elements (BB Canada) and WD Easystore (BB USA) are reported to contain white label versions of the WD reds.

For the Canadian Elements drive, many owners have reported that the drives are white label, helium-filled, 256 MB cache, 5400 rpm, and TLER enabled. Also, these owners have not reported an issue with having to tape off the 3.3 v pin.

I believe the newer WD My Book drives contain blue drives and support encryption.

tecknurd 01-20-2019 11:50 PM

Probably the warranty is voided when you take the enclosure apart to get access to the drive.

Another equal drive is Seagate IronWolf or IronWolf Pro. The IronWolf Pro includes data recovery if you didn't or did plan for a backup and this drive is last one that also failed. For all data recovery services, it's a 50/50 to get the data recovered and for this service you have to read the fine print.

Streaming is OK if you don't mind sacrificing quality. I notice the sound quality difference of the hard copy or DVD version of Futurama that I recently bought versus Netflix streaming. The DVD of Futurama is better sound quality. The space it takes up is reasonable, so I'm starting to go in the hard copy direction and then eventually dropping streaming. For me DVD resolution is just fine. Blu-ray is nice but at cost of more storage. You have to compromise high resolution versus wallet.

Don't forget to do backups.

captain_video 01-21-2019 04:07 AM

I recently purchased a couple of WD 8TB easystore drives on sale from Best Buy. The drives were both white label drives.


FYI - you will definitely void the warranty if you pull the drives from the enclosure.

whiteboy714 01-21-2019 02:01 PM

Yes many people are still doing this, some are able to keep the case nice in case it needs to go back on for warranty. I always break the clips.

ShoutingMan 01-21-2019 08:11 PM

Thanks. Somewhere along the line, I got the Easystore at BestBuy confused with the My Book available from Amazon. The White Label drives, those are still found to be a Red drive in all but name?

bryansj 01-22-2019 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoutingMan (Post 57477890)
Thanks. Somewhere along the line, I got the Easystore at BestBuy confused with the My Book available from Amazon. The White Label drives, those are still found to be a Red drive in all but name?

Yes. The white label prevents reselling as regular Red drives (think eBay sellers).

You may need to deal with the 3rd pin. Plenty of guides showing how to do this if needed.

Tedd 01-22-2019 06:22 AM

I have eight 8 TB Easystore drives shucked.

3 reds, 5 whites and that surprise Fujitsu drive that upon opening had me my head perplexed.....

Then I saw 200G scsi and 2008. The box was shrink wrapped so I was pissed. Returned it, with some hassle.
But BB took it back, opened and all. My BB purchase history and dollar spending might have enabled that
return, but the manager told me they simply ship it back to WD return it and let WD deal with it.

It looks like it might be 10 TB drives going forward... All of my drives were bought in Nagara Falls area BB stores.
I did see the 10 TB in some ads, but have yet to see one at any of those stores. I paid anywhere from $139 to $169
USD per drive. (Taxes on top of that.)

If you are a BB rewards member, there also might be an occasional perk with that.

I have yet to NOT snap off the internal tabs. 8 for 8, fails. Perfect record. ;)

If one is more into streaming, wouldn't inexpensive batch code purchases from a disk collector work out far cheaper then
buying and hosting content?

whiteboy714 01-22-2019 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57479090)
I have eight 8 TB Easystore drives shucked.

3 reds, 5 whites and that surprise Fujitsu drive that upon opening had me my head perplexed.....

Then I saw 200G scsi and 2008. The box was shrink wrapped so I was pissed. Returned it, with some hassle.
But BB took it back, opened and all. My BB purchase history and dollar spending might have enabled that
return, but the manager told me they simply ship it back to WD return it and let WD deal with it.

It looks like it might be 10 TB drives going forward... All of my drives were bought in Nagara Falls area BB stores.
I did see the 10 TB in some ads, but have yet to see one at any of those stores. I paid anywhere from $139 to $169
USD per drive. (Taxes on top of that.)

If you are a BB rewards member, there also might be an occasional perk with that.

I have yet to NOT snap off the internal tabs. 8 for 8, fails. Perfect record. ;)

If one is more into streaming, wouldn't inexpensive batch code purchases from a disk collector work out far cheaper then
buying and hosting content?

Yeah the 10TB drives were hot over black friday. I saw some at my local store the other day. I am sticking with 8 for now because thats what my snapraid setup is setup for.

And it sounds like we have the same skills at snapping the tabs :D

ShoutingMan 01-23-2019 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57479090)
If one is more into streaming, wouldn't inexpensive batch code purchases from a disk collector work out far cheaper then buying and hosting content?

Maybe? I haven’t thought that far ahead. It’s only lately that the industry consolidation around MoviesAnywhere and online streaming services supporting 4K and HDR and Atmos that make this look like the future has arrived sooner than I expected.

But there’s something geekily satisfying about having my own home server for my purchased media.

:)

Tedd 01-23-2019 05:39 PM

I often wonder if a single 12 TB drive (or 2) in a htpc, and only host great demo material and favorite movies, might be a real $weet $pot.
And then augment with purchased codes... Inexpensive, and no hosting expense. Le$$ hardware, more movies, yet still hit that geekily satisfying mark.

sleepie89 03-27-2019 07:15 AM

I have a question. Its probably shows how much i know about all of this. I was wondering i already have a 5TB drive but i want to add a 10TB. I have a synology NAS with 4 ports. If one is a 5TB can i add a 10TB too?

ShoutingMan 04-09-2019 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepie89 (Post 57811168)
I have a question. Its probably shows how much i know about all of this. I was wondering i already have a 5TB drive but i want to add a 10TB. I have a synology NAS with 4 ports. If one is a 5TB can i add a 10TB too?

You have a NAS with a single drive in it currently?

Adding a second drive and then run in RAID 1, you'll have 5TB space and a parity drive. No extra data. You'll have to add at least a third drive to get more data and have parity data.

Tedd 04-10-2019 05:03 AM

Does the NAS force you to have a parity drive?

Don't NAS boxes usually want all of the same drive, or wouldn't they format out to 2 x 5TB and potentially give you 10 TB of storage?
Isn't that an advantage of something like UnRaid over a NAS box, where you could simply have 13 TB of storage if you configured as no
parity drive?

Charles R 04-10-2019 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57880868)
Does the NAS force you to have a parity drive?

Don't NAS boxes usually want all of the same drive, or wouldn't they format out to 2 x 5TB and potentially give you 10 TB of storage?

Most NAS devices will let you configure drives in a variety of formats including JBOD. For media storage I'd skip any RAID and or redundancy outside of an external copy since the data isn't constantly changing and anything less isn't really a backup...

whiteboy714 04-10-2019 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles R (Post 57882504)
Most NAS devices will let you configure drives in a variety of formats including JBOD. For media storage I'd skip any RAID and or redundancy outside of an external copy since the data isn't constantly changing and anything less isn't really a backup...

But it is definitely better than nothing at all.

ShoutingMan 04-10-2019 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles R (Post 57882504)
Most NAS devices will let you configure drives in a variety of formats including JBOD. For media storage I'd skip any RAID and or redundancy outside of an external copy since the data isn't constantly changing and anything less isn't really a backup...

It was expensive enough to have 10TB storage. Having a duplicate for a proper backup is just too much for me (and many). Having a parity drive is a fair compromise between cost and data-loss prevention.

ShoutingMan 04-10-2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57880868)
Does the NAS force you to have a parity drive?

Don't NAS boxes usually want all of the same drive, or wouldn't they format out to 2 x 5TB and potentially give you 10 TB of storage?
Isn't that an advantage of something like UnRaid over a NAS box, where you could simply have 13 TB of storage if you configured as no
parity drive?

Sure, you could toss a bunch of discs in the box and use them as total aggregated storage. I think most people recommend against having say 15 TB storage with no redundancy. Unless you place no value on your time to rebuild that collection if there's a failure.

Tedd 04-10-2019 04:44 PM

If this is owned content, then how bad is it to actually re-rip 15 TB of 1080P Bluray content these days? (4K is more a headache.) And how soon will a 16 TB drive be here, on the affordable side of things?
Will that 15 TB of storage actually expire before that? And in 5 years, how often will you want to re-watch what you have anyways?


I do put a value on the time spent but I sure do like the idea of one or two 10 TB Easystore shucked hard drives in a htpc, at the low cost end of things. That's where I see the absolute most value. If
that data needs protection, then you have already invested time to buy an additional hard drive, so maybe you gamble and come out ahead. (Not exactly a path I would choose if the data was replicable.)

I sure haven't experienced much in hard drive failures in the last 30 years. Just two and most (not all) data was recoverable.

ShoutingMan 04-10-2019 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57884062)
If this is owned content, then how bad is it to actually re-rip 15 TB of 1080P Bluray content these days? (4K is more a headache.) And how soon will a 16 TB drive be here, on the affordable side of things?
Will that 15 TB of storage actually expire before that? And in 5 years, how often will you want to re-watch what you have anyways?


I do put a value on the time spent but I sure do like the idea of one or two 10 TB Easystore shucked hard drives in a htpc, at the low cost end of things. That's where I see the absolute most value. If
that data needs protection, then you have already invested time to buy an additional hard drive, so maybe you gamble and come out ahead. (Not exactly a path I would choose if the data was replicable.)

I sure haven't experienced much in hard drive failures in the last 30 years. Just two and most (not all) data was recoverable.

I’ve seen multiple hard drive failures from consumer drives in the past decade. A friend shucked an 8TB easystore last Fall, and it died in his NAS less than a month later.

I have 10TB of owned content. It took months of evenings and weekends to rip and remux, sort out the special features, edit the metadata and label audio tracks and commentary tracks, and so on. I’m not doing that again. I’ve got a parity drive. It’s my best guess at cost and risk balance.

I’m thinking about trying the shucking approach to add capacity. I like the idea of dropping price from $30/TB to $20/TB.

Tedd 04-10-2019 08:44 PM

I'd be far more concerned about short term failure then long term failure. Multiple drives in a server or large NAS, also have vibration issues that can shorten drive lifespan.
The risk you run with shucked drives is warranty is voided, unless you master those clips. I have destroyed every case I have opened.

A parity drive also does nothing to protect one from a lighting strike, or a fire, or whatever else, can destroy a collection. So if you want to be truly backed up, offsite storage is
needed to be, to truly protect the data. And then is that even legally ripped content, when the originals end up destroyed in something like a fire?

The remuxing and edited metadata are worth protecting, with an external drive. A 10 Tb external hard drive stored elsewhere, is the safer solution then a parity drive.

I do have a parity drive in a server, but I also have eight 8TB drives with another 16 hard drive bays available.

Charles R 04-11-2019 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteboy714 (Post 57883420)
But it is definitely better than nothing at all.

I agree outside of giving one a false sense of security. You are probably more likely to be "hit" with NAS OS corruption and user error than anything else. Hang around any NAS forum for any length of time and you'll see hardware is often the least talked about when an issue arises. Or better yet perhaps like me when I deleted an active partition thinking it was a snapshot. :)

For my thinking I want/need a backup or I don't... just don't see the value in maybe I do. Either I do or don't appear cheaper for many reasons.

whiteboy714 04-11-2019 12:25 PM

I agree with a lot of the other posters. I went years with no backups. With the mindset (used to download back then) that I could always get it all back. But as I began to buy my own stuff and also have data that I could not "re-rip". Some sort of fail safe was needed.

I am not one that can afford to do 1:1 backups. At least not with my media. SO I went the drive pool/snapraid route.

Drivepool to have all my drives look like one big drive. So much easier when your movie drive goes beyond one drive.
Snapraid so that if I lose one drive the data can be recovered.

Not fool proof but way better than having nothing at all.

Tedd 04-11-2019 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteboy714 (Post 57883420)
But it is definitely better than nothing at all.

If bad things happen, my point is it might be the exact equivalent as nothing at all.

ShoutingMan 04-12-2019 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedd (Post 57884960)
I'd be far more concerned about short term failure then long term failure. Multiple drives in a server or large NAS, also have vibration issues that can shorten drive lifespan.
The risk you run with shucked drives is warranty is voided, unless you master those clips. I have destroyed every case I have opened.

A parity drive also does nothing to protect one from a lighting strike, or a fire, or whatever else, can destroy a collection. So if you want to be truly backed up, offsite storage is
needed to be, to truly protect the data. And then is that even legally ripped content, when the originals end up destroyed in something like a fire?

The remuxing and edited metadata are worth protecting, with an external drive. A 10 Tb external hard drive stored elsewhere, is the safer solution then a parity drive.

I do have a parity drive in a server, but I also have eight 8TB drives with another 16 hard drive bays available.

That is all true: A true backup is safer than parity. It's also less convenient and more expensive. I've made the best calculus of effort and price against risk I could. I've got a power conditioner in line to protect against surges. (And against a catastrophic home fire, my blu-ray collection is low on my list of things I'm worried about.) But now that a 10TB external drive is $200, it's worth considering as an add-on purchase.

My current dilemma is whether to continue with the HTPC -- add storage, possibly add a backup disc, continue buying discs and ripping, etc. -- or "freeze" it and move to streaming services. The HTPC was to solve the problems of: whole-house accessible digital library of my collection in full quality with special features and eliminate the nuisances of discs. As of 2019, the streaming services have almost completely solved this. And what they lack, they provide the trade off of 30 seconds to redeem a code versus 3 hours to rip/mux/metadata a new disc.

Life is filled with difficult, first-world problems. :)

Sammy2 04-12-2019 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoutingMan (Post 57893764)
That is all true: A true backup is safer than parity. It's also less convenient and more expensive. I've made the best calculus of effort and price against risk I could. I've got a power conditioner in line to protect against surges. (And against a catastrophic home fire, my blu-ray collection is low on my list of things I'm worried about.) But now that a 10TB external drive is $200, it's worth considering as an add-on purchase.

My current dilemma is whether to continue with the HTPC -- add storage, possibly add a backup disc, continue buying discs and ripping, etc. -- or "freeze" it and move to streaming services. The HTPC was to solve the problems of: whole-house accessible digital library of my collection in full quality with special features and eliminate the nuisances of discs. As of 2019, the streaming services have almost completely solved this. And what they lack, they provide the trade off of 30 seconds to redeem a code versus 3 hours to rip/mux/metadata a new disc.

Life is filled with difficult, first-world problems. :)

No Lossless Audio comes to mind. My "ripping" is automated and takes 30 seconds to do.

whiteboy714 04-12-2019 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy2 (Post 57893884)
No Lossless Audio comes to mind. My "ripping" is automated and takes 30 seconds to do.

Hmmm :confused:

Keenan 04-12-2019 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteboy714 (Post 57894388)
Hmmm :confused:

No lossless audio with streaming video services.

whiteboy714 04-12-2019 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keenan (Post 57894400)
No lossless audio with streaming video services.

I get that, it was the second half of his post I didn't quite understand. Unless he was talking about selecting a movie in netflix and pushing play.

ShoutingMan 04-13-2019 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy2 (Post 57893884)
No Lossless Audio comes to mind. My "ripping" is automated and takes 30 seconds to do.

How does that work?

AnyDVD takes 30min - 90 min to rip a disc to ISO.
MakeMKV takes another 20-40 min to convert all tracks to MKV.
Then I've got another couple hours to:
  • identify the main title (if there are duplicates) and/or identify theatrical vs directors cuts
  • identify and label audio and subtitle tracks
  • check for non-burned necessary subtitle track that needs to be set to default / forced
  • identify and title all special features
  • mux out video and audio backdrops
  • find and download trailers
  • if this is an Atmos title, another hour to demux / remux Atmos from 4k into HD (since I'm not 4k yet)
  • copy everything over to library and confirm it's imported correctly

How do you process a disc in 30 seconds? If I could speed this up, it would be useful.


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