Washed Out Colors - Windows 10 HDR - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Washed Out Colors - Windows 10 HDR

with windows hdr (permanenty) turned on everything looks beautiful on my lg oled tv, the desktop, web pages, etc., and my ripped hdr files (using plex) look fantastic too... however i don't get the same experience when connecting to my 4k projector, everything is washed out... hdr movies are ok, not great tho, they appear to be a bit washed out too...

i know this a prob that a lot of people have reported, in fact i've read articles that suggest cranking the sdr slider in display settings > hdr helps, but i didn't think it made much of a difference... what i want is for my projector to display hdr the same way my oled does.

now that i'm posting this, it just occurred to me that my projector (benq lk953st) actually has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 but an "on-screen" native resolution of 3840 x 2160 achieved through pixel-shifting while my oled has a resolution of 3840 x 2160... so, i'm guessing, windows sees the projector as 1080p and therefore i get the washed out look?
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post #2 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by aeneas01 View Post
with windows hdr (permanenty) turned on everything looks beautiful on my lg oled tv, the desktop, web pages, etc., and my ripped hdr files (using plex) look fantastic too... however i don't get the same experience when connecting to my 4k projector, everything is washed out... hdr movies are ok, not great tho, they appear to be a bit washed out too...

i know this a prob that a lot of people have reported, in fact i've read articles that suggest cranking the sdr slider in display settings > hdr helps, but i didn't think it made much of a difference... what i want is for my projector to display hdr the same way my oled does.

now that i'm posting this, it just occurred to me that my projector (benq lk953st) actually has a resolution of 1920 x 1080 but an "on-screen" native resolution of 3840 x 2160 achieved through pixel-shifting while my oled has a resolution of 3840 x 2160... so, i'm guessing, windows sees the projector as 1080p and therefore i get the washed out look?


Does your projector support full 0-255 video levels? For PC black is 0 but for video black is 16. If your projector is not reading it right or of your graphics driver is not outputting the data to be 16-255 then you will get washed out image.

If you are using MadVR then set it correctly in the Display tab


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post #3 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 03:21 PM
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How are you watching plex in hdr under Windows 10? It’s nkt supported.

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post #4 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
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How are you watching plex in hdr under Windows 10? It’s nkt supported.
sure it is... i use the plex desktop media player, transcoding off, hdr streams beautifully, while atmos is also passed thru to my avr.
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post #5 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 06:24 PM
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Well ,I don’t think it is: you are being fooled

MPV (PMP’s playback engine) does not support HDR passthrough. They have opted for a tone mapping approach to handle both SDR and HDR content rather than using the GPU and TV HDR modes.

There’s quite a bit of info on this topic contained in MPV’s Github page, with two of the “big” threads on HDR below:

Issue 5521 8

Issue 6405 8 (check out the user Doofussy2’s posts as well as his discussion on the emby forums 1 about the tweaks you can make to improve HDR tonemapping in MPV).

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post #6 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sjchmura View Post
Well ,I don’t think it is: you are being fooled

MPV (PMP’s playback engine) does not support HDR passthrough. They have opted for a tone mapping approach to handle both SDR and HDR content rather than using the GPU and TV HDR modes.

There’s quite a bit of info on this topic contained in MPV’s Github page, with two of the “big” threads on HDR below:

Issue 5521 8

Issue 6405 8 (check out the user Doofussy2’s posts as well as his discussion on the emby forums 1 about the tweaks you can make to improve HDR tonemapping in MPV).
interesting, and great reads btw, read about a half dozen posts (github 5521) and am looking forward to reading the entire thread and the emby discussion you mentioned, pretty new to this stuff so all of this is very helpful, albeit a lot of it is above my pat grade at the moment...

when i play an hdr file using plex and my lg oled tv i get the hdr logo and the movie certainly looks hdr to me, not just 4k, but hdr, so if it's nothing more than inferior mpv tone mapping that i'm actually seeing instead of "true" hdr, i sure am looking forward to eventually seeing what an hdr movie file looks like when i'm able to see it in "true" hdr!

speaking of tone mapping, i'm planning on using my lumagen pro's hdr tone mapping for my projector...
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It’s getting hdr since Windows is set to HDR. Everything is HDR and time mapped from Windows then plex is tone mapping again. It’s can’t look good as windows tone mapping is not great

Take a high contrast standard def picture and turn windows 10 hdr on and off. It’s not great at making it look like it should

Plex on Xbox one and shield tv properly do HDR. Plex also does bitstream audio, Xbox does not.

NOT SURE about your LG built in plex client . I know a lot of people use Xplay $5 to get hdr on lg oled

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post #8 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 08:12 PM
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A simple fix to this HDR in plex windows problem is to install Kodi, then plex for kodi, then tell kodi to run plex as a service, and in plex, enable all formats for direct play. Then you'll playback your plex through the kodi engine which fully supports HDR. You can also then setup kodi to use an external player and use anything you want. If you dont add anything to your kodi library first, when you load kodi, plex loads within 1 second so in that sense, kodi just becomes plex.

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post #9 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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A simple fix to this HDR in plex windows problem is to install Kodi, then plex for kodi, then tell kodi to run plex as a service, and in plex, enable all formats for direct play. Then you'll playback your plex through the kodi engine which fully supports HDR. You can also then setup kodi to use an external player and use anything you want. If you dont add anything to your kodi library first, when you load kodi, plex loads within 1 second so in that sense, kodi just becomes plex.
thanks for the reply.... i used to be a kodi user, then emby, then plex, just don't care for kodi's navigation interface when using a keyboard or mouse, plex rocks in this area, and i find plex's gui much more attractive than any of the many kodi gui options... i also recently tried plex for kodi but wasn't thrilled by it, had a few lockups, and of course it doesn't solve the desktop, browser etc., wash out prob... but i may give it another try tonite, to see how much of a difference i can see between that and what i'm seeing from plex in terms of hdr movie files.
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post #10 of 43 Old 05-19-2019, 08:54 PM
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thanks for the reply.... i used to be a kodi user, then emby, then plex, just don't care for kodi's navigation interface when using a keyboard or mouse, plex rocks in this area, and i find plex's gui much more attractive than any of the many kodi gui options... i also recently tried plex for kodi but wasn't thrilled by it, had a few lockups, and of course it doesn't solve the desktop, browser etc., wash out prob... but i may give it another try tonite, to see how much of a difference i can see between that and what i'm seeing from plex in terms of hdr movie files.
I'm not saying to use kodi. I'm saying to use plex for kodi. Plex for kodi was written by plex and has the full plex interface not Kodi's. But you are freed from plex's playback limitations.

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I'm not saying to use kodi. I'm saying to use plex for kodi. Plex for kodi was written by plex and has the full plex interface not Kodi's. But you are freed from plex's playback limitations.
i get what you're saying, as i mentioned i've tried it before, fairly recently, and to get to the plex add-on you have to launch and navigate through kodi's gui as far as i can tell, which i find user unfriendly with a keyboard/mouse, and i don't care for the kodi gui's which will be seen on launch...

of course this is also a taste, layout thing, for example i like having media icons on a desktop background of my choice, and launch each program/app individually from there (i.e. plex, netflix, hulu, prime, spotify, etc.) as opposed to launching everything from within an environment like kodi... and, yes, i get that i could have a kodi icon which i used just for plex but, again, it involves launching into kodi first, would rather have something much more seamless, unless there's an option to launch directly into plex for kodi without seeing kodi?
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i get what you're saying, as i mentioned i've tried it before, fairly recently, and to get to the plex add-on you have to launch and navigate through kodi's gui as far as i can tell, which i find user unfriendly with a keyboard/mouse, nor do i like any of the kodi gui's, which see on launch...

of course this is also a taste, layout thing, for example i like having media icons on a desktop background of my choice, and launch each program/app individually from there (i.e. plex, netflix, hulu, prime, spotify, etc.) as opposed to launching everything from within an environment like kodi... and, yes, i get that i could have an kodi icon which i used just for plex but, again, it involves launching into kodi first, would rather have something much more seamless, unless there's an option to launch directly into plex for kodi without seeing kodi?
You install kodi but dont add anything to your library. Then you install plex for kodi. Then you poke around kodi settings and configure plex to launch as a service. Now when you load kodi, within 1 second, plex loads automatically. In that sense, kodi has just become plex. I never deal with Kodi other than to be a framework for a better plex. I control this all with my IR remote.

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You install kodi but dont add anything to your library. Then you install plex for kodi. Then you poke around kodi settings and configure plex to launch as a service. Now when you load kodi, within 1 second, plex loads automatically. In that sense, kodi has just become plex. I never deal with Kodi other than to be a framework for a better plex. I control this all with my IR remote.
yep, that's exactly what i did, it's an easy process, nothing confusing about it... the one thing i didn't see was how to launch kodi and then have plex for kodi automatically and quickly launch, instead i was launching kodi, navigating to add-ons, then launching plex for kodi... so this changes things, i'll give it another try tonite, thanks!
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post #14 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 06:00 AM
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yep, that's exactly what i did, it's an easy process, nothing confusing about it... the one thing i didn't see was how to launch kodi and then have plex for kodi automatically and quickly launch, instead i was launching kodi, navigating to add-ons, then launching plex for kodi... so this changes things, i'll give it another try tonite, thanks!
Ok the option is in plex settings. Fire up kodi, fire up plex within kodi, navigate to settings for your user, then advanced tab and mid way down "start plex when kodi starts".

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A simple fix to this HDR in plex windows problem is to install Kodi, then plex for kodi, then tell kodi to run plex as a service, and in plex, enable all formats for direct play. Then you'll playback your plex through the kodi engine which fully supports HDR. You can also then setup kodi to use an external player and use anything you want. If you dont add anything to your kodi library first, when you load kodi, plex loads within 1 second so in that sense, kodi just becomes plex.
quoting this so I can do this.

I love the plex system for library management and interface, and I enjoyed the Plex App in Kodi, but was having issues getting the plex app to use the kodi Ds player. But I want to use a different player than the Dsplayer anyways, but couldnt figure out how to configure external player for it... but Plex app seemed to be using its own player anyways so I have to fix that first.
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It’s getting hdr since Windows is set to HDR. Everything is HDR and time mapped from Windows then plex is tone mapping again. It’s can’t look good as windows tone mapping is not great

Take a high contrast standard def picture and turn windows 10 hdr on and off. It’s not great at making it look like it should

Plex on Xbox one and shield tv properly do HDR. Plex also does bitstream audio, Xbox does not.

NOT SURE about your LG built in plex client . I know a lot of people use Xplay $5 to get hdr on lg oled
interesting...

so what's the best way to play ripped hdr movie files with the following equipment:

windows 10
4k uhd projector
4k uhd oled tv
lumagen pro
vertex

- is a software player configured to use madvr the best (only?) approach?
- what about hdr metadata passthrough to the screen? is that possible with any software? assuming it is, does that mean the screen does the tone mapping (hardware)? and if the screen does it, is it any better than what windows is doing?

thanks!
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post #17 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 01:58 PM
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If you're using a PC, MPC with madVR is the simplest method. You can passthrough the metadata to the display if you want to use the Lumagen.
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post #18 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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If you're using a PC, MPC with madVR is the simplest method. You can passthrough the metadata to the display if you want to use the Lumagen.
do you have recommended madvr settings, from the bare minimum that will produce noticeable results, to make your pc hurt?
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post #19 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 02:07 PM
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There is a guide linked at the top of the 4K madVR build thread. There are suggested settings in the last section. They are basic settings, so you can add to them if you want to.
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post #20 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 05:08 PM
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A simple fix to this HDR in plex windows problem is to install Kodi, then plex for kodi, then tell kodi to run plex as a service, and in plex, enable all formats for direct play. Then you'll playback your plex through the kodi engine which fully supports HDR. You can also then setup kodi to use an external player and use anything you want. If you dont add anything to your kodi library first, when you load kodi, plex loads within 1 second so in that sense, kodi just becomes plex.


Yes you can. Be nice if plex supported HDR. It’s crazy the android plex and iOS support HDR and windows does not

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post #21 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 05:10 PM
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thanks for the reply.... i used to be a kodi user, then emby, then plex, just don't care for kodi's navigation interface when using a keyboard or mouse, plex rocks in this area, and i find plex's gui much more attractive than any of the many kodi gui options... i also recently tried plex for kodi but wasn't thrilled by it, had a few lockups, and of course it doesn't solve the desktop, browser etc., wash out prob... but i may give it another try tonite, to see how much of a difference i can see between that and what i'm seeing from plex in terms of hdr movie files.


Install plex kodi addon. Looks like an old version of plex. At least it’s not broken

I am not sure why anyone (and I am a lifetime subscriber) thinks plex in Windows is acceptable . The care they put into iOS or android is fantastic . Look at all the people they fool on Windows saying they support hdr.

Tone mapping is not hdr. Then again if people can’t see the difference guess it’s fine.

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post #22 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 05:17 PM
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If you're using a PC, MPC with madVR is the simplest method. You can passthrough the metadata to the display if you want to use the Lumagen.


Question - when I try to use MadVR pass through HDR meta data (select the option on the HDR tab) ... it doesn’t pass any data. What am I doing wrong

My HTPC is based on RTX2070




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post #23 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 05:47 PM
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Question - when I try to use MadVR pass through HDR meta data (select the option on the HDR tab) ... it doesn’t pass any data. What am I doing wrong

My HTPC is based on RTX2070




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Why would you even care about this? MadVR is far superior tone mapping than whatever you pass through to. For that matter, @aeneas01 should also be using madvr to tone map to his benq not try to pass hdr. The difference in doing so is quite large improvement

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post #24 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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A simple fix to this HDR in plex windows problem is to install Kodi, then plex for kodi, then tell kodi to run plex as a service, and in plex, enable all formats for direct play. Then you'll playback your plex through the kodi engine which fully supports HDR. You can also then setup kodi to use an external player and use anything you want. If you dont add anything to your kodi library first, when you load kodi, plex loads within 1 second so in that sense, kodi just becomes plex.
are you "onekmilesbehind" at the plex forum? seems that he is saying the same thing as you...

whatever the case, are you using kodi dsplayer?

also, at first i wanted to use potplayer as my external player, but decided to first just use mpc-hc in order to follow the madvr / mpc setup guide at the kodi forum...one thing that thew me for a loop tho, was that it's recommended that windows be set at 8-bit and rgb, is that what you're doing?

thanks!
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post #25 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 08:17 PM
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are you "onekmilesbehind" at the plex forum? seems that he is saying the same thing as you...

whatever the case, are you using kodi dsplayer?

also, at first i wanted to use potplayer as my external player, but decided to first just use mpc-hc in order to follow the madvr / mpc setup guide at the kodi forum...one thing that thew me for a loop tho, was that it's recommended that windows be set at 8-bit and rgb, is that what you're doing?

thanks!
No. I am markmon on plex forums. You can see/get my custom "plex for kodi" here: https://forums.plex.tv/t/plex-for-kodi-update/396541/12

Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #26 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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No. I am markmon on plex forums. You can see/get my custom "plex for kodi" here: https://forums.plex.tv/t/plex-for-kodi-update/396541/12
thanks my friend, will check it now...

i take it you're using a pc? if so do you have windows hdr set to off and then the display automatically kicks in when madvr passes through the hdr metadata?
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post #27 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 09:26 PM
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thanks my friend, will check it now...

i take it you're using a pc? if so do you have windows hdr set to off and then the display automatically kicks in when madvr passes through the hdr metadata?
I am using a PC. I keep HDR off, always. MadVR is set to tone map HDR to SDR using pixel shader math. The result is the best possible HDR performance you can get for a projector. MadVR has dynamic tone mapping and is far superior to any projector's built in HDR curve.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #28 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I am using a PC. I keep HDR off, always.
had my fingers crossed on both hands hoping that would be your answer... i've grown beyond tired of trying to figure out why everything (desktop, browser, explorer windows, etc.) looks awesome with hdr permanently enabled when it comes to my oled tv, but horribly washed out on my 4k projector, the only thing i can think of is the pj is actually 1920 x 1080 but pixel-shifts to 3840 x 2160, so windows hdr treats the pj as a 1920 x 1080 display and washes it out accordingly.

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MadVR is set to tone map HDR to SDR using pixel shader math. The result is the best possible HDR performance you can get for a projector. MadVR has dynamic tone mapping and is far superior to any projector's built in HDR curve.
recently purchased a lumagen pro, thought i would use that for hdr tone mapping, is there a way to bypass madvr's hdr processing in order to let the lumagen do its thing?

also, btw, it's been quite a while since i've used kodi, seems that a lot of the skins may have been updated since, with added customization features, i'm thinking i might just use that instead of the plex add-on because a) even tho the plex add-on can be set to automatically load when kodi is launched, quickly even, you still see the kodi interface and b) i've never been too fond of plex's "tv" app, which is what the add-on seems to have been modeled after.

if i decide to go the kodi dsplayer route, can i still pass through audio?

thanks again!
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post #29 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 09:50 PM
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recently purchased a lumagen pro, thought i would use that for hdr tone mapping, is there a way to bypass madvr's hdr processing in order to let the lumagen do its thing?
Yes you can use the lumagen but to do that you'll have to get windows to output the raw HDR. However, the madVR dynamic tone mapping should be a bit superior to the lumagen's so you'd still be best off configuring madVR as I suggested. yes, DSPlayer can be set to output bitstreamed audio to your receiver.
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Video: JVC RS4500 135" screen in pure black room no light, htpc nvidia 1080ti.
Audio: Anthem mrx720 running 7.1.4, McIntosh MC-303, MC-152, B&W 802d3 LR, B&W HTM1D3 center, B&W 805d3 surround, B&W 702S2 rear, B&W 706s2 x 4 shelf mounted for atmos, 2 sub arrays both infinite baffle: 4x15 fi audio running on behringer ep4000 + 4x12 fi audio running on 2nd ep4000.
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post #30 of 43 Old 05-20-2019, 10:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes you can use the lumagen but to do that you'll have to get windows to output the raw HDR. However, the madVR dynamic tone mapping should be a bit superior to the lumagen's so you'd still be best off configuring madVR as I suggested. yes, DSPlayer can be set to output bitstreamed audio to your receiver.
i'd like to try both, compare, how would i get windows to output the raw hdr?

also, what external player are you using, do you have a favorite?

and, finally, did you manually adjust any display settings within windows, such as refresh rate, input range (full, limited, etc.), rgb vs ycbcr, or set any custom resolutions?

Last edited by aeneas01; 05-20-2019 at 11:57 PM.
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