Jan '20 - No More WMC Guide - Alternatives? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 31 Old 10-07-2019, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Jan '20 - No More WMC Guide - Alternatives?

Sooner or later I guess we all knew this would happen. Is EPG 123 the only sensible alternative?

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post #2 of 31 Old 10-07-2019, 09:47 PM
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I switched over to HDhomerun but regret it. I still can't see running a dedicated WIN7 PC just for WMC. I have Hulu commercial free that has all the locals aired the next day except CBS. I said I would never pay for a local service but I broke down and subscribed to CBS all access. I cut the cord years ago but am in a tough spot to reliable receive OTA. HDhomerun is just horrible compared to WMC.

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post #3 of 31 Old 10-07-2019, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
Sooner or later I guess we all knew this would happen. Is EPG 123 the only sensible alternative?
I've been really happy with the DVR feature in Plex, though it does require Plex Pass which isn't free. You could always just try a free trial of it to see if it meets your needs.

Sorry if this doesn't answer your question. I haven't used WMC in a long time and I'm not familiar with EPG 123.

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post #4 of 31 Old 10-08-2019, 12:15 AM
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Epg123 is probably one if the better solutions, at least using superior Zap2it/Tribune guide listing over the crap that is Rovi/TiVo guide data.

(TiVo used to use Zap2it until they were acquired by Rovi. As did WMC. When they switched to Rovi guide, complaints about the poorer quality of data are rampant. Yes, still in present tense).

I'm treating this as an encouragement to go back to good guide data.
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post #5 of 31 Old 10-08-2019, 05:34 AM
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EPG123 has been the better alternative for quite some time. We all knew this would happen eventually so I made the switch to avoid any loss of guide data, especially after we kept experiencing potential loss from Microsoft more times than I can count. I just got tired of dealing with that so I made the switch and couldn't be happier. The $25 annual subscription to Schedules Direct is well worth it and it gives you peace of mind along with better guide data. EPG123 will allow us to keep using WMC for as long as the hardware holds out. There are other DVR options out there, but the vast majority of them only support ATSC or clear QAM channels that are not flagged. Some of them will support cablecard tuners, but no channels with DRM. WMC is still the only game in town for a PC-based DVR solution for recording channels with DRM.

I signed up for the HDHR Kickstarter campaign when they first announced it because of the potential loss of guide data from Microsoft. I paid for five year's worth of guide data but never ended up using any of it. I can't stand the UI and my wife would never be able to make the adjustment from WMC to the HDHR app. I've ranted about it far too many times in these forums so I'll give you all a break and leave it there.

I've never tried Plex or any other DVR options simply because there was never any reason to switch from WMC once I started using epg123. Aside from DVR recording with Plex, the free version does everything I want from it. I have the Plex docker installed on my unRAID server and it allows my Shields to access everything on the server.

I always love threads that declare that WMC and/or Windows 7 are dead. No operating system or app is dead unless you can no longer find hardware or software that supports it. My HTPC has been running fine for years and I even have a brand new Ryzen setup waiting in the wings with Windows 7 already installed on it to replace it if and when my current hardware dies.
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post #6 of 31 Old 10-08-2019, 07:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks for the detail, CV! How difficult/problematical was the transition from the current Guide to EPG123? I have 6 CH Ceton Pcie Tuner, no OTA. The $25 is no biggie and I look forward to the better guide with logos, star ratings etc., but I am a big worried about the road to get there as I am not a big techie type.

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post #7 of 31 Old 10-08-2019, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rekbones View Post
I switched over to HDhomerun but regret it. I still can't see running a dedicated WIN7 PC just for WMC. I have Hulu commercial free that has all the locals aired the next day except CBS. I said I would never pay for a local service but I broke down and subscribed to CBS all access. I cut the cord years ago but am in a tough spot to reliable receive OTA. HDhomerun is just horrible compared to WMC.
Have you considered emby or plex? I use EMby to manage my media and also for DVR/live TV duty. You do have to pay for premium which is $50 a year. But its pretty great.

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post #8 of 31 Old 10-08-2019, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Subject of thread is the Electronic Program Guide not what kind of tuner to buy.

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post #9 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
Many thanks for the detail, CV! How difficult/problematical was the transition from the current Guide to EPG123? I have 6 CH Ceton Pcie Tuner, no OTA. The $25 is no biggie and I look forward to the better guide with logos, star ratings etc., but I am a big worried about the road to get there as I am not a big techie type.
There's no problem whatsoever. You subscribe to Schedules Direct here. Select your provider or area where you receive OTA channels. You can create multiple lineups that include OTA and cable and possibly satellite too, but I'm not sure about the satellite guide. You don't need to customize the lineup on the Schedules Direct website to remove unwanted channels. You do that later in epg123. Here's a link to the Green Button epg123 sub-forum. There's a link for downloading the app and another for the setup instructions at the top of the forum. Once you have it installed you need to configure it with the login information for Schedules Direct and then setup your lineups. You will need to configure a time to allow epg123 to run automatically so it will always be up to date. You'll then need to rerun guided setup for the TV signal in WMC, but don't accept the guide data when prompted. EPG123 replaces the Microsoft/Rovi guide data. If you have any problems then look for help in the Green Button forum for epg123. The author is extremely helpful.
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post #10 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 07:34 AM - Thread Starter
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There's no problem whatsoever. You subscribe to Schedules Direct here. Select your provider or area where you receive OTA channels. You can create multiple lineups that include OTA and cable and possibly satellite too, but I'm not sure about the satellite guide. You don't need to customize the lineup on the Schedules Direct website to remove unwanted channels. You do that later in epg123. Here's a link to the Green Button epg123 sub-forum. There's a link for downloading the app and another for the setup instructions at the top of the forum. Once you have it installed you need to configure it with the login information for Schedules Direct and then setup your lineups. You will need to configure a time to allow epg123 to run automatically so it will always be up to date. You'll then need to rerun guided setup for the TV signal in WMC, but don't accept the guide data when prompted. EPG123 replaces the Microsoft/Rovi guide data. If you have any problems then look for help in the Green Button forum for epg123. The author is extremely helpful.
Much obliged, CV! I started to look at Schedules Direct last night. Looks like there are some options where I need to be careful in my choice, but I will inquire as to correct choice for my system (single PC, Ceton 6 Pcie Tuner, Not OTA, and one Echo Extender) at the Green Button before I stumble all over the place. Thanks again!

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post #11 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 07:40 AM
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Much obliged, CV! I started to look at Schedules Direct last night. Looks like there are some options where I need to be careful in my choice, but I will inquire as to correct choice for my system (single PC, Ceton 6 Pcie Tuner, Not OTA, and one Echo Extender) at the Green Button before I stumble all over the place. Thanks again!
You only need to specify what sources you get your programming from. If you're on cable you just select the provider for your specific region. The same goes for OTA broadcasters. I have the same Ceton InfiniTV 6 tuner as well as a HDHomeRun Prime and two HRHR Quatro ATSC tuners. The Echo extender isn't even part of the equation so you don't need to worry about it. My cable provider is Verizon FIOS in Howard County, MD, and my local OTA channels come from both Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
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post #12 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
Subject of thread is the Electronic Program Guide not what kind of tuner to buy.


I wasn’t talking about tuners but better software to run than emcee. But you have a a ceton anyways so your good where you are.

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post #13 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by captain_video View Post
You only need to specify what sources you get your programming from. If you're on cable you just select the provider for your specific region. The same goes for OTA broadcasters. I have the same Ceton InfiniTV 6 tuner as well as a HDHomeRun Prime and two HRHR Quatro ATSC tuners. The Echo extender isn't even part of the equation so you don't need to worry about it. My cable provider is Verizon FIOS in Howard County, MD, and my local OTA channels come from both Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
Thank you again. Does not sound like I will have an issue. In the meantime I verified that I need to install via both Server and Client steps and select Full mode at the end. Two places where I might have gone wrong now clarified so maybe this weekend I will give this a shot. Guys like yourself make this forum worthwhile and the time you take is much appreciated.

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post #14 of 31 Old 10-09-2019, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I wasn’t talking about tuners but better software to run than emcee. But you have a a ceton anyways so your good where you are.
OK. Sorry if I misundertood. Yes, sounds like I am good.

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post #15 of 31 Old 10-10-2019, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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You only need to specify what sources you get your programming from. If you're on cable you just select the provider for your specific region. The same goes for OTA broadcasters. I have the same Ceton InfiniTV 6 tuner as well as a HDHomeRun Prime and two HRHR Quatro ATSC tuners. The Echo extender isn't even part of the equation so you don't need to worry about it. My cable provider is Verizon FIOS in Howard County, MD, and my local OTA channels come from both Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
Sorry, CV, but i forgot to ask you a specific question about setting up the EPG123 for the 6 Tuner PCie Ceton: There is something in the EPG 123 set up info about a "4 tuner limit". Am I right this does not really come into play? Does one have to go through the WMC signal setup or go to the Ceton Diagnostics, wipe the tuners and re-install etc.? (My 6 tuners have always been recognized ok in WMC.)

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post #16 of 31 Old 10-10-2019, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
Sorry, CV, but i forgot to ask you a specific question about setting up the EPG123 for the 6 Tuner PCie Ceton: There is something in the EPG 123 set up info about a "4 tuner limit". Am I right this does not really come into play? Does one have to go through the WMC signal setup or go to the Ceton Diagnostics, wipe the tuners and re-install etc.? (My 6 tuners have always been recognized ok in WMC.)
The 4-tuner limit is imposed by WMC. EPG123 does not care what tuners you have. All you need to do is specify the source of your programming (i.e., cable provider and/or local broadcast region for OTA). Once you have EPG123 installed you need to rerun the TV signal setup in WMC but do not accept the agreement for the guide data provided by Microsoft. EPG123 imports the guide data automatically. If you have more than four tuners of any given type then you need to use TunerSalad to get past that limit (you need to do this before running the TV signal setup or else you'll need to run it all over again). I'm not sure but I believe the latest drivers for the InfiniTV tuners may bypass this limit. EPG123 may also do it, but I'm not certain. I've always run TunerSalad to increase the tuner limit. You don't need to run the Ceton diagnostics. In some instances WMC won't see every OTA channel in your area and you may need to add them in manually. You can do that by going into the Guide Settings. If you have to add any channels then you need to rerun EPG123 to import the data for the missing channels. You may have to do this each time you update to a newer version of epg123.
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post #17 of 31 Old 10-10-2019, 12:24 PM
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FYI, Ceton driver already contains the Tuner Salad functionality. No need to install TS separately.
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post #18 of 31 Old 10-10-2019, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Many thanks, fellas. Sounds like the install should go relatively smoothly. Your input much appreciated!

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post #19 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 06:15 AM
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FYI, Ceton driver already contains the Tuner Salad functionality. No need to install TS separately.
I had read that a while back, but recently I had to go back and rerun the TV signal setup because my tuners get out of whack and wouldn't tune in certain channels. I figured it lost the ability to see more than four cablecard tuners because it was scheduling shows to record at odd hours instead of during prime time. I'm wondering if either my drivers aren't the latest or if running TunerSalad is interfering with the Ceton drivers.

The latest version of the Ceton InfiniTV drivers I have is 13.6.3.1088.
The firmware version is 14.10.3.163

Does anyone know if there are later versions of the drivers or firmware? I tried to keep them up to date but sometimes things fall into a crack. The Ceton site is gone so there's no way to download either of them from Ceton.
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post #20 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 06:20 AM
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As far as I know, Ceton drivers always has this feature. You can easily tell if it is working by going to the guide settings and open any channel to find out how many tuners are listed under channel source.

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post #21 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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I had read that a while back, but recently I had to go back and rerun the TV signal setup because my tuners get out of whack and wouldn't tune in certain channels. I figured it lost the ability to see more than four cablecard tuners because it was scheduling shows to record at odd hours instead of during prime time. I'm wondering if either my drivers aren't the latest or if running TunerSalad is interfering with the Ceton drivers.

The latest version of the Ceton InfiniTV drivers I have is 13.6.3.1088.
The firmware version is 14.10.3.163

Does anyone know if there are later versions of the drivers or firmware? I tried to keep them up to date but sometimes things fall into a crack. The Ceton site is gone so there's no way to download either of them from Ceton.
I have had the 6 ch Ceton for a lot of years now and it has been rock solid, no issues tuning any stations that I have been able to discern. I think I may have done a signal set up a couple of times, but honestly cannot recall exactly why it was so long ago. I am so happy with the unit that I bought a second one which I keep on hand for that rainy day it goes kaput.

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post #22 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 08:59 AM
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The last ETH-6 firmware was 15.1.13.152. It was issued to fix a problem with the way some cable companies were flagging Copy Freely channels so that the analog recording flags took over and marked them as Copy Once. If you didn't have the problem you didn't need the firmware upgrade. Unfortunately it also broke the HTML for the channel list on the diagnostics pages for me so if you don't have that specific problem I wouldn't install the last firmware. More on topic is that Gary has detailed installation instructions on his web site for EPG123 at http://epg123.garyan2.net/ Also a video showing the process. If you follow the instructions you'll get good results. I too have been using EPG123 since it was a prototype. Combined with Schedules Direct data it's highly reliable, the data are better than anything MS ever gave us and you can get support for it from both Gary (at TGB) or for schedule problems directly from Schedules Direct. That's well worth $25/year for me.

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post #23 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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The last ETH-6 firmware was 15.1.13.152. It was issued to fix a problem with the way some cable companies were flagging Copy Freely channels so that the analog recording flags took over and marked them as Copy Once. If you didn't have the problem you didn't need the firmware upgrade. Unfortunately it also broke the HTML for the channel list on the diagnostics pages for me so if you don't have that specific problem I wouldn't install the last firmware. More on topic is that Gary has detailed installation instructions on his web site for EPG123 at http://epg123.garyan2.net/ Also a video showing the process. If you follow the instructions you'll get good results. I too have been using EPG123 since it was a prototype. Combined with Schedules Direct data it's highly reliable, the data are better than anything MS ever gave us and you can get support for it from both Gary (at TGB) or for schedule problems directly from Schedules Direct. That's well worth $25/year for me.
Many thanks, Glorpsd. Did not have the issue with my PcIe version at least and thanks for the evaluation of the EPG123. So far most folks are very positive about it. I went to the link you provided and also to YouTube but could not find a video.

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post #24 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sgbroimp View Post
Many thanks, Glorpsd. Did not have the issue with my PcIe version at least and thanks for the evaluation of the EPG123. So far most folks are very positive about it. I went to the link you provided and also to YouTube but could not find a video.

Here you go:

http://epg123.garyan2.net/install/


.

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post #25 of 31 Old 10-11-2019, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Perfect. Thanks. I guess I saw that already and missed the fact that it was a video. Maybe they should do a YouTuber.

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post #26 of 31 Old 10-12-2019, 06:00 AM
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The last ETH-6 firmware was 15.1.13.152. It was issued to fix a problem with the way some cable companies were flagging Copy Freely channels so that the analog recording flags took over and marked them as Copy Once. If you didn't have the problem you didn't need the firmware upgrade. Unfortunately it also broke the HTML for the channel list on the diagnostics pages for me so if you don't have that specific problem I wouldn't install the last firmware. More on topic is that Gary has detailed installation instructions on his web site for EPG123 at http://epg123.garyan2.net/ Also a video showing the process. If you follow the instructions you'll get good results. I too have been using EPG123 since it was a prototype. Combined with Schedules Direct data it's highly reliable, the data are better than anything MS ever gave us and you can get support for it from both Gary (at TGB) or for schedule problems directly from Schedules Direct. That's well worth $25/year for me.
Thanks. I guess I should have mentioned that I have the PCI-e version of the InfiniTV 6, not the ETH-6. Since the Ceton site is down, is there any way to get any later versions of the firmware or drivers installed?
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post #27 of 31 Old 10-12-2019, 09:07 AM
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Your version (13.6.3.1088) of the drivers are the latest. I have that driver .exe package stored locally and also installed. In fact I used it a couple of days ago to install the drivers to a test system I set up to try out Kodi. They worked fine. I also have the last 4 versions of ETH6 firmware and a couple of ones for the PCIe 4 tuners version the hardware I used before the ETH I have now. I never owned a PCIe-6 so don't have any of the firmware for it unfortunately. There might be some people on TGB with those though or know the history to tell you if your firmware was the last one.
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post #28 of 31 Old 10-12-2019, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by glorpsd View Post
Your version (13.6.3.1088) of the drivers are the latest. I have that driver .exe package stored locally and also installed. In fact I used it a couple of days ago to install the drivers to a test system I set up to try out Kodi. They worked fine. I also have the last 4 versions of ETH6 firmware and a couple of ones for the PCIe 4 tuners version the hardware I used before the ETH I have now. I never owned a PCIe-6 so don't have any of the firmware for it unfortunately. There might be some people on TGB with those though or know the history to tell you if your firmware was the last one.
I figured my driver was the latest. I always tried to keep up with any updates to drivers and firmware so the firmware should be the latest as well. Thanks for checking on that for me.
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post #29 of 31 Old 10-15-2019, 03:46 AM
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Sooner or later I guess we all knew this would happen. Is EPG 123 the only sensible alternative?
I have two WMC 8.1 computers ruining with HDHomerun prime,which I use to record DRM movies from HBO,ect,they are supposed to be supported until 2023? I'm so pissed that I got the guide notice on winscrew 8, 1,gee I wish I knew a class action lawyer,I did pay extra for WMC on winscrew 8.1.
So does any guide support HBO, ect? For DRM recording?
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post #30 of 31 Old 10-15-2019, 05:24 AM
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i have two wmc 8.1 computers ruining with hdhomerun prime,which i use to record drm movies from hbo,ect,they are supposed to be supported until 2023? I'm so pissed that i got the guide notice on winscrew 8, 1,gee i wish i knew a class action lawyer,i did pay extra for wmc on winscrew 8.1.
So does any guide support hbo, ect? For drm recording?
epg123
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