madVR HTPC Paid Version Expectations - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 12:38 AM - Thread Starter
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madVR HTPC Paid Version Expectations

I would like to see an auto-tune feature in madVR HTPC for hands off tuning. An improved, dynamically "on the run" tuned PC interface that takes the reigns and gives us the best experience possible, regardless of source resolution, scaling requirements, tone mapping, frame rate, etc. Beyond our current manual tuning, no matter how tweeky we are. Dynamically-tuned just like the vision for Envy, but with HTPC. Of course, you have to allow for some geek tweeking, as well. Overrides to the auto mechanism.

Future Envy algos should be made available, when they make sense.

As the title suggests: The purpose of this thread is to support madVR, Labs by providing a survey on the madVR HTPC paid version *Expectations*.

Every company benefits from potential customer input when available. And *no* madshi hasn’t declared this a viable product, as of today (06-22-2020). Not that I know of.

The more input we can provide on what a *paid version* means to us the better. Every developer benefits from user expectations.

The right approach to a paid version is a tight-rope walk between Envy and HTPC. The correct balance is extremely important.

And I think the madVR HTPC sales could potentially outperform Envy revenue.


Let's talk about our expectations...

(06-22-2020) Thread renamed to "madVR HTPC Paid Version Expectations" and moved under Home Theater Computers.
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Last edited by catav; 06-22-2020 at 09:21 PM.
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 02:47 AM
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Not 100% confirmed, but could be a useful feature for new users.

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Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
I don't know if anyone has considered how will support be done for a paid version of madvr that is not auto configured, that is a version that has Envy's new features but users will still have to tinker. Other software besides a FAQ section have forums, but I don't know if that's a reliable way to troubleshoot a relatively complex software like madvr. A few new users (if not most) would probably choose a paid version after taking a look at the guide/manual.

Could there be trials, or not since they can be abused?
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 06:46 AM
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What interests me the most is the guarantee that MadVR will always be available and able to play new future formats, and evolve along the new graphic cards technology.
Ideally, that some of the state of the art Envy algorithms, even if not all, be available in MadVR PC version.
Regarding an auto tuning feature, i have no interest in it.

Having invested in an HTPC, in the time to learn how to configure it, and having used several media players, oppo's, etc, it would be a waste if madVR PC wouldn't be constantly evolving.
The only way i see the above as possible, is by rewarding Madshi for his hard work, so i'll gladly pay for it.
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 06:52 AM
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I think it would be better to discuss this stuff if madShi at least confirms that this will someday exist. Did that happen?

In any event, even if madVR is never updated again, it does very well and should be useful for many more years to come. Id pay for new (useful) algorithms but that's it.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 11:59 AM
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I think this thread should be in the Home Theater Computer section of AVS, but other than that I'm of course on board with this

madshi has mentioned several times that he would like to implement motion interpolation into madVR/Envy. I'm very much looking forward to that, if it's artifact free, and/or some form of BFI. Support for future formats is more of an LAV filters thing, but I'd like to see DV and HDR10+ playback.

Let's hope it happens.

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 12:04 PM
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Yeah I don't think this thread should exist until such a product is actually confirmed by madshi.

There may not ever be a commercial madVR HTPC software.
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 12:47 PM
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Well, maybe if this thread gains momentum, it will convince madshi to do it :P
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 01:54 PM
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I'd definitely be interested in this.

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post #9 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 03:54 PM
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I will pay for the paid version it it offers significant features vs the free version (obviously).
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 04:19 PM
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While you think a paid version would do all you want be careful what you wish for. MadVR started as free software, but Madshi is now not the only person who owns the company...

Just because something cost money does not mean its going to do what you want it to.

I dont understand the chanting for a paid version...

Lets see the Envy succeed first huh?

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post #11 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 05:46 PM
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A paid version would be fine if it offered value. I think the biggest barrier is what Javs just said about madshi having partners who maybe don't fully appreciate the very different market that madvr caters to than Envy. And while I think madshi will make that case once Envy is kicked out of the nest, it may not be a super easy sell. Personally I'd like to see some of the new tensor core algorithms make it into a paid version, but, that's just a wish list. I think a paid version could succeed if it's very well defined what the target audience is and that it's clear that it won't eat Envy sales. /opinion

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post #12 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VBB View Post
I think this thread should be in the Home Theater Computer section of AVS...
Done.
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 07:32 PM
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I would be very interested in this product.

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post #14 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noob00224 View Post
Not 100% confirmed, but could be a useful feature for new users...

I don't know if anyone has considered how will support be done for a paid version of madvr that is not auto configured...
That's a great point. Support cost can inundate (ROI) return on investment. Need to hold costs to a minimum. An auto-tuned version would greatly lower those costs. And how would you support a totally manual tuned version, anyway. Think of the daily questions! It could be overwhelming to a start-up company. You’d have to off load that to the forums and hope their response was adequate. Not a very sound business model to me.
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post #15 of 22 Old 06-22-2020, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
...I dont understand the chanting for a paid version...
1 Didn’t want to spam the Envy thread.

2 See a potential for Envy algos in HTPC madVR.

3 Would like an intuitive interface, with less knowledge required to succeed.

4 About time for the procedural code to take charge of video quality delivery for the average user, automatically.

5 If madshi can do this for Envy, we’re just one step away.

Javs…not sure why you wouldn’t embrace such changes. If these work for Envy why not for HTPC?

I’m ready to just watch videos, relax about madVR settings and know that the quality is taken care of.

Sure sounds good to me.
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 12:36 AM
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Yeah, a paid version is no panacea. In fact, it's hazardous - users have very powerful reactions to paid support that can overwhelm developers to the point product development stops because users demand 24/7 support and the developer is inundated with support issues. No amount of knowledge bases or web self help pages will cut down demand. After all, they paid for the product and expect the developer to be at their beck and call and if they don't get a response to their support question within 10 minutes they send 10 more tickets asking why they aren't responding.

So any features or other things you may want are swamped by everyone else's expectations of instant support. Doesn't matter if your product only has one button that does it all magically - users will report all sorts of issues and non issues (the latter to try to get priority support by making their issue seem more show stopper than it is).

The only it's solved is if there's a dedicated support team behind it and those aren't cheap, so your paid version will likely be a paid subscription version. And we're not even talking about how to manage licensing.
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 01:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Yeah, a paid version is no panacea. In fact, it's hazardous - users have very powerful reactions to paid support that can overwhelm developers to the point product development stops because users demand 24/7 support and the developer is inundated with support issues. No amount of knowledge bases or web self help pages will cut down demand. After all, they paid for the product and expect the developer to be at their beck and call and if they don't get a response to their support question within 10 minutes they send 10 more tickets asking why they aren't responding.

So any features or other things you may want are swamped by everyone else's expectations of instant support. Doesn't matter if your product only has one button that does it all magically - users will report all sorts of issues and non issues (the latter to try to get priority support by making their issue seem more show stopper than it is).

The only it's solved is if there's a dedicated support team behind it and those aren't cheap, so your paid version will likely be a paid subscription version. And we're not even talking about how to manage licensing.
In my opinion, one solution to this is to have a free madVR + paid algorithm add-ons. This requires madVR to already be setup and working and would limit support requirements on the paid elements.
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Yeah, a paid version is no panacea. In fact, it's hazardous - users have very powerful reactions to paid support that can overwhelm developers to the point product development stops because users demand 24/7 support and the developer is inundated with support issues. No amount of knowledge bases or web self help pages will cut down demand. After all, they paid for the product and expect the developer to be at their beck and call and if they don't get a response to their support question within 10 minutes they send 10 more tickets asking why they aren't responding.

So any features or other things you may want are swamped by everyone else's expectations of instant support. Doesn't matter if your product only has one button that does it all magically - users will report all sorts of issues and non issues (the latter to try to get priority support by making their issue seem more show stopper than it is).

The only it's solved is if there's a dedicated support team behind it and those aren't cheap, so your paid version will likely be a paid subscription version. And we're not even talking about how to manage licensing.
Doesn't this automatization feature already exist on the Envy? The main difference would be HTPC has many possible hardware/software permutations. There's similar situations with other platforms.

Quote:
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In my opinion, one solution to this is to have a free madVR + paid algorithm add-ons. This requires madVR to already be setup and working and would limit support requirements on the paid elements.
But what if a new user get a the paid version from the start?

It would be difficult to separate support for the add on algorithms from the rest of madvr.
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javs View Post
While you think a paid version would do all you want be careful what you wish for. MadVR started as free software, but Madshi is now not the only person who owns the company...

Just because something cost money does not mean its going to do what you want it to.

I dont understand the chanting for a paid version...

Lets see the Envy succeed first huh?
That's a good point. For my part an "auto-tune" feature is what I'm really interested in, but it doesn't sound like that's planned for the HTPC version.

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post #20 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
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But what if a new user get a the paid version from the start?

It would be difficult to separate support for the add on algorithms from the rest of madvr.
It would doesnt seem like it would be a nightmare to me. You'd make it clear that the addons are perhaps addon dlls for working madVR installations. Then point to the forums for help setting up madVR and that's it. There are thousands of madVR users that manage to find help to install and get madVR working without help support from madshi and staff. I do think a full "paid" madVR would be a potential nightmare for users paying and expecting support. But these types of addons probably not so much.

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post #21 of 22 Old 06-23-2020, 11:48 AM
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All I want is for madVR to stay alive and continue to be developed. If that can be done simply via donations without the need for direct support, great. The Envy is not for me, not only because of the price, but also, and mainly, because I like to mess with all the settings and fine-tune myself. To me, that's what makes an HTPC with madVR so attractive. If I wanted a set-it-and-forget-it solution, I'd get a Shield.
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-24-2020, 03:24 AM
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Hey guys,

there will be a new madVR HTPC test build "soon" with some new algo tweaks to try. I don't plan to stop releasing new madVR HTPC builds.

Currently we're concentrating on the Envy. We have not yet made a decision on how to proceed with the madVR HTPC software. Everything's possible, in theory - except dropping the madVR HTPC software, which I don't see happening. The decision how to proceed exactly will depend on multiple factors, including Envy success etc. There are good arguments for different directions we could take, we've not managed to make our minds up yet.

Please understand that I can't really participate atm in discussing the future of the madVR HTPC software. I'll let you know as soon as we have made a clear decision. Which will probably take quite a while, because we will probably wait to see how successful Envy is going to be.
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