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post #4411 of 4423 Old 06-14-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six_rabbits View Post
...

BTW, this PC runs 24/7... isn't this required to schedule/execute the HDHomeRun captures?
...
If everything is set up properly the HTPC will Hibernate until the next scheduled capture or I start the HTPC to view a capture. Set "Wake Lead Time" to 90 seconds or more as needed by right clicking a HDHR tuner in CW_EPG options.

At least that's how mine operates and has do so for many years.

It is set to hibernate after 10 minutes of no activity so if I walk away I usually start a FM station to play or a shuffled list of music to play. If I forget it goes into hibernation. With a smart Power Strip the HDHR tuners are also powered down, as least that is how Terry's system was reported to operate in past years.

SHF
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post #4412 of 4423 Old 06-15-2019, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Stephen, Six_Rabbits is using the new CWHelper, which works just fine with the latest SiliconDust Windows software and any HDHR tuner. If you don't use the new CWHelper, then you either have to use older SiliconDust software or (as you describe) use the CW_EPG Options right-click channel scan to create CW_EPG channel lists with rf frequencies and protocols included. However, this is a red herring to the present question, because, in either case, the FusionHDTV interface is the same.

Six, thanks for your additional research. I'm happy to work with you to sort this out and I hope that we can thereby figure out a more reliable interface. (But, as Stephen mentioned, it's not unknown for FusionHDTV to fall over all by itself without CW_EPG's help)

There has been no change in the CW_EPG (actually CWHelper) FusionHDTV interface since it was introduced, so changing versions would not help. If you're seeing differences between the XP and W7 systems they're likely because of the different OS-Fusion interactions. In that regard, there is a very important point that I forgot to mention before (because it's been years since I did this myself). In W7, assuming that you haven't completely disabled UAC, you must set the security permissions on the FusionHDTV program folder to allow "everybody" Full Access. The reason for that is that FusionHDTV (regrettably) stores its data files in that same folder and by default W7 (and newer Ws) copies them into and out of a shadow "VirtualStore" folder that it masquerades as the program folder. This causes enormous confusion in cases such as this where more than one app is accessing the same file and may actually be part of your database error issue. The Full Access setting keeps the OS from performing this "magic" and makes things work the same as in XP.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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post #4413 of 4423 Old 06-15-2019, 12:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
If everything is set up properly the HTPC will Hibernate until the next scheduled capture or I start the HTPC to view a capture. Set "Wake Lead Time" to 90 seconds or more as needed by right clicking a HDHR tuner in CW_EPG options.

At least that's how mine operates and has do so for many years.

It is set to hibernate after 10 minutes of no activity so if I walk away I usually start a FM station to play or a shuffled list of music to play. If I forget it goes into hibernation. With a smart Power Strip the HDHR tuners are also powered down, as least that is how Terry's system was reported to operate in past years.

SHF
Yes, I have several test systems and all are set up as Stephen describes using smart strips to power everything down whenever the PC is not setting up captures, capturing, or playing them back. IMO no HTPC should be running 24/7.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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post #4414 of 4423 Old 06-15-2019, 06:34 PM
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Hi Terry,

I've tried a bunch of things, taking notes along the way. That process is the numbered list attached. Executive summary: nothing I tried has helped. Details are in the attachment.
-- Sharing Fusion's folder in Program Files
-- Rolling back CW_EPG 4.3.1 to 4.2.1 but keeping CwHelper 4.3.0.606
-- With CW_EPG 4.2.1, rolling back CwHelper 4.3.0.606 to 4.0.8.508
-- Near step 27 in the attachment, the connection between Fusion and CW EPG broke.
-- Was unable to fix, so removed Fusion software.
-- Even without Fusion software, CW EPG was unsuccessful in scheduling HDHomeRun

Finally, the best I could hope for was to get back to my previous functionality. I restored the C: drive to its previous backup point from before the Fusion card and software was installed. I'm now back where I started and HDHomeRun scheduling is working again, using CW EPG 4.3.1 and CwHelper 4.3.0.606.

Do you have any ideas regarding what I might try next?

Thanks!
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post #4415 of 4423 Old 06-15-2019, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six_rabbits View Post
..
Do you have any ideas regarding what I might try next?

Thanks!
Should Terry be off on one of his round the Earth trips I do have a plan to get you to a stable state with CW_EPG using just your HDHR tuners.

I will wait for his response or if you wish guide you into the CW_EPG I have in heavy active use being CW_EPG's stress tester.

SHF
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post #4416 of 4423 Old 06-15-2019, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six_rabbits View Post
I've tried a bunch of things, taking notes along the way.
Excellent work, thanks. I think that this may be your misstep:
Quote:
-- Sharing Fusion's folder in Program Files
You need to eliminate Windows VirtualStore action on that folder, not "share" it. The way to do that is to go to the Security properties in Windows Explorer (see my attached illustration of the correct settings). After you've made that change to the folder's Security settings, search for "VirtualStore" folders and delete any FusionHDTV subfolders before restarting the PC.

As I wrote earlier there's been no change in CW_EPG(CWHelper) interactions with FusionHDTV since the first public release supporting it, so changing CW_EPG or CWHelper versions will only coincidentally change what happens.

Also, it's normal for CWHelper versions prior to the one I sent you not to have a persistent tray icon and only show one during HDHR captures.

It's still true that FusionHDTV is a tricky beast so I'm not sure that you'll be out of the woods with the above change, but I think it will make the database error popups go away (or at least less frequent). Also, regardless of what the CW_EPG status windows show, if the capture appears in FusionHDTV's tray app window it should be OK.

FusionHDTV scheduling has been a very low priority for us for quite a while due to lack of user interest. But with your help I'm hopeful that we can make it work better. I have some ideas that will take some internal team effort and time to try out. Please be patient.
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post #4417 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 05:11 AM
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Hi SFischer1,

Thanks for offering to help. I had been having no success with the HDHR tuners until Terry sent a modified version of CwHelper. Since then, CW EPG has been working flawlessly with the HDHR tuner*. Should the situation change, I will reach out. The support I've gotten from you and Terry has been outstanding in both speed and accuracy.

(*It's a big improvement over the XP+MyHD+Fusion setup previously, which suffered from a memory leak that I tolerated for over a decade. It would hang every week or less, usually during the wee hours of Monday morning.)

Hi Terry,

I'm sorry that I completely misunderstood the concept of Windows VirtualStore. I'm delaying the re-installation of Fusion software until I'm satisfied that I haven't broken something, i.e. the machine survived its restoration to a time before my attempts to fix it. Then I'll do as you suggest and report back.

"...FusionHDTV scheduling has been a very low priority for us for quite a while due to lack of user interest. But with your help I'm hopeful that we can make it work better. I have some ideas that will take some internal team effort and time to try out. Please be patient..."

Please don't feel like there's a reason to hurry on my behalf... this current setup is already a significant improvement over its XP predecessor, running with just the HDHR tuners.

Thanks for all your help and support. You guys rock.

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post #4418 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by six_rabbits View Post
Hi SFischer1,

Thanks for offering to help. I had been having no success with the HDHR tuners until Terry sent a modified version of CwHelper. Since then, CW EPG has been working flawlessly with the HDHR tuner*. Should the situation change, I will reach out. The support I've gotten from you and Terry has been outstanding in both speed and accuracy.
...
Checking a few points, you are running W7 SP1 and the User Account Slider is at the very bottom for the single Administrator account you are using.

Compatibility for CW_EPG.exe and CwHelper.exe are both set for Windows XP Service Pack 3.

I have never set permissions for all Users to Full Control as Terry has suggested, I have Users Permission set to Read & Execute.

I did not run into the Silicon Dust change that Terry and the team are addressing as I was using CW_EPG to do the scans and Fusion recording have not been scheduled for five or more years. Having Fusion doing captures has been stopped completely due to it's total unreliability for OTA. I have four (4) Fusion tuners, they all may work fine using NON Silicon Dust software. I keep a Fusion tuner in my HTPC (2) to play very damaged captures only.

The HDHR ignoring one of the two Virtual Channels is getting a lot of bad posts in many threads and the repack may produce many more Fusion cards being sent to the Electronic recycling dump.

------------------------------------

Be prepared for MSFT ending W7 support in January, based on my attempts to use Vista when my W7 laptop died, it will be very nasty. I will have a HTPC with W10 ready soon and expect the backup HTPC will follow soon after, a new mother board needed perhaps.

-------------------------------------

When ATSC 3.0 is available I will get a HDHR 3.0 tuner, but signs are showing up that will not be compatible with CW_EPG. Blame Hollywood and Mickey Mouse.

SHF
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post #4419 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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A few quick corrections for Stephen's post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFischer1 View Post
W7 SP1 and the User Account Slider is at the very bottom for the single Administrator account you are using.
It is not necessary to disable UAC to run CW_EPG or FusionHDTV and it does not matter how many or what kind of accounts are set up on the PC, as this suggests.
Quote:
Compatibility for CW_EPG.exe and CwHelper.exe are both set for Windows XP Service Pack 3.
After making the change to folder permissions, DO NOT set CW_EPG.exe or CWHelper.exe (or FusionHDTV.exe, etc.) to Windows XP compatibility! With the correct folder permissions in W7 and W10, they run just fine in all Windows from XP through 10.
Quote:
I have never set permissions for all Users to Full Control as Terry has suggested, I have Users Permission set to Read & Execute.
Setting more limited permissions for Everyone on the FusionHDTV Program Files folder may be OK, but is untested by me. Making the change that I recommended is all that is needed to run FusionHDTV compatibly with CW_EPG.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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post #4420 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 08:56 PM
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A few quick corrections for Stephen's post.It is not necessary to disable UAC to run CW_EPG or FusionHDTV and it does not matter how many or what kind of accounts are set up on the PC, as this suggests.After making the change to folder permissions, DO NOT set CW_EPG.exe or CWHelper.exe (or FusionHDTV.exe, etc.) to Windows XP compatibility! With the correct folder permissions in W7 and W10, they run just fine in all Windows from XP through 10.Setting more limited permissions for Everyone on the FusionHDTV Program Files folder may be OK, but is untested by me. Making the change that I recommended is all that is needed to run FusionHDTV compatibly with CW_EPG.
The best advice from you that I paid dearly for not heeding sooner was to use my HTPC for HTPC use only. You have changed your advice on many points from before.

That strongly suggests only one Admin account, as to not reducing UAC to "Never notify", that was found to be necessary years ago.

As to the other comments, they have changed from years before, some of which are changes in W10 that have not been done in W7.

Being the CW_EPG stress tester I can say what I suggested works and will not hit you like Flash did a few days ago. IE appeared to disappear and the comments on the Internet were not helpful. I thankfully had a restore point that when applies the IE problems among others went away.

Flash will be reinstalled only after another System Image is created. Beware!!!

SHF

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post #4421 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, as other things change, so do recommendations. Disabling UAC has become unnecessary because of the recommended change to folder Security permissions. After that, the UAC setting is irrelevant because VirtualStore's confounding is removed. (We had to discover that because W10 doesn't play nicely if one defeats its UAC) Also, the improved stability of Windows since XP has made it less important for an HTPC to be "single purpose". It was very important for Win95.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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post #4422 of 4423 Old 06-17-2019, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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That's the account that no part of Windows limits. ("ADMINISTRATOR").
Not quite true in W10, as of its first release anyway. I found that some functions were unavailable when one enables and runs via that account. E.g., the new-style apps won't run, which means that one cannot access or use the MSFT online Store (including the W10 HDHomerun app) unless MSFT has relented on that. (Things do change, and I've not looked at that setting for several years)

But this is getting increasingly OT and unhelpful. My point is that I have recommended current settings known to make FusionHDTV compatible with CW_EPG in W7. Other settings may work, but they also may mess up that delicate beast.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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post #4423 of 4423 Old 06-18-2019, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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As I wrote earlier there's been no change in CW_EPG(CWHelper) interactions with FusionHDTV since the first public release supporting it, so changing CW_EPG or CWHelper versions will only coincidentally change what happens.
Apologies to Six_Rabbits, after reviewing some development history I find that there was a change in the FusionHDTV scheduling interface between CW_EPG 4.2.x and 4.3.x that was occasioned by the need to support Java8. That could cause a difference in behavior between those two versions. We're working to better understand the occasional database error and I hope to have a more robust solution in the near future.

HDHomerun users: Please check out our free Cliff Watson EPG PVR software to schedule your recordings.
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