Walkthrough: "Why is my HDTV ugly compared to my old tube tv?" How to setup the HDTV - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-01-2008, 03:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Why is my HDTV not excellent compared to my old tube tv?

You need to make sure these basic requirements are met to get the most out of your hdtv viewing experience.

1) You need these three things:

- High Definition Tv
- High Definition Receiver
- High Definition Programming. Like National Geographic.

Each of these three things need to be looked at, and I will focus on each individually below.




2) High Definition Tv.

- Calibration Matters

You really need to calibrate the Brightness and Contrast.
Brightness means Black Color, and Contrast means White Color.

Adjusting these will make the colors more vibrant.
If the Brightness is too bright, the colors won't look as good as they could.
And more often than not, the default brightness and contrast calibration is too bright.

You should calibrate the brightness and contrast to match the lighting in your room.
In a well lit room, the calibration would be different than a dark room.
So, if the tv will be used mainly in a well lit room, you just need to calibrate it for that lighting.

How do I calibrate the Brightness and contrast? You may ask.
There is a program called GetGray Caldisk.
Click this link: http://calibrate.tv/
Once there, read the instructions before you do anything with this program.

The Brightness and Contrast for High Definition and Standard Definition is the Same,
only the Hue and Saturation are different between bt.601 (Standard Definition) and bt.709 (High definition).
So, you can use the Getgray calibration disk to calibrate the brightness and contrast on your tv.

Saturation and Hue is a bit more tricky.
You'll need the Blue Glasses, and either the bt.601 hue and saturation test in the getgray caldisk,
or the bt.709 in one of these disks: https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496
Just follow the instruction in the calibrate.tv link for how to calibrate this setting.
It helps in case all the faces look like they tanned in the sun for too long and got a bad case of sunburn.

Go here to get the glasses. View the webpage with IE:
http://costore.com/thx/productenlarg...=87&pid=930793

- Aspect Ratio
If you look in the TV Setup. You might see something called "Keep Aspect Ratio".
You want to select this to get the best ratio possible.
If you keep the aspect ratio, it won't "Stretch" the picture.
If you stretch the picture, your warping how something looks, making it look fatter or longer than it should.
If you warp the picture, it decreases the quality of the picture, and may make it look worse than if you kept the original aspect ratio.

- Pixel Mapping
For the sharpest picture, you want to use 1:1 Pixel mapping.
This may shrink the standard resolution video so it's only a tiny video on your large screen.
This is because it is only use a fraction of the resolution (480i), your monitor offers (1080i),
if your using a hdtv and use 1:1 pixel mapping with a standard definition video signal.

If you use 1:1 pixel mapping from a xbox 360 on a 1080p hdtv, the video screen will be smaller than the tv screen,
but it will be larger than a standard tv video, because it's 720p and standard tv video is 480i,
it will also be a very crisp, clear picture.

If your monitors resolution is 1366x768, and it has the 1:1 feature.
Then for video games like the xbox 360, you may find you prefer using the 1:1 feature than not using it.
Same for 720p movies or 720p tv.

If your tv is not set to 1:1 pixel mapping, then you may get over or under scanning.
On regular cable tv there isn't a 1:1 pixel mapping feature on my tv, but if I use 1080p input from my ps3 or pc then there is a 1:1 pixel mapping option.

- With a hdtv, you may also be able to use it as a computer monitor, then 1:1 pixel mapping is very important, crucial even.

Video cards resize using 8x12 pattern.
So if your monitor is 1280x720, divide 1280 by 8, and 720 by 12.
If your monitor can be divided "Evenly" using this method you can use your hdtv as a pc monitor using even hdmi with no problems.
This is why people who have 1366x768 monitors and use hdmi have so much trouble,
they cannot divide 1366 by 8, evenly, so text looks ugly when using it as a pc monitor, and you have over or underscan.
Over or unnderscan is when the pc screen doesn't fit the monitor screen because it's too big or small to fit.

If your monitor is 1080p then that is it's native resolution. Set the resolution in the videocard configuration to 1080p.
There may be a Scale feature in your ati configuration settings, this is set using a sliding bar.
If the Scale feature is there and you set the resolution to the tv's native resolution, then slide the bar to the far right.
If the picture does not fill the screen or fills the screen too much, then you need to set the view mode of the tv (Example: Dot by dot, stretch, zoom) so when the slide bar is at the far right the picture fills the screen correctly.

See the picture I attached.


3) High Definition Receiver

- Cables to tv from receiver matters.
There are a few different types of cables you can use to connect your receiver to you monitor.

List of best to Worst types of connectors you can use from your receiver to you tv. With 1 being the best, 5 the worst.
1) HDMI, or DVI
2) vga
3) Component
4) S-Video
5) Composite
6) Coaxial

If you use the worst type of connector to your fancy hdtv. The Video quality will be poor.

Also, getting a 5.1 sound system takes the viewing experience a notch up in wow factor.
But that's not my specialty, so I won't comment too much about that.
"But", I can say that attaching a optical (toslink) from the receiver, to Logitech Z 5500 speakers,
and positioning the speakers properly would be the cheapest and best quality.
Otherwise your looking at buying a receiver (different kind of receiver than a tv receiver from the tv company), and those are not cheap/inexpensive.

Vga may cause banding on lcd monitors, so it is rated below dvi. The larger the lcd monitor the greater chance you will see problems wilth vga vs dvi .




4) Finally I need to mention High Definition Programming.

These are "Specialty" channels that are more "Resolution" than regular channels.
There is no need to scale the video when standard definition video is used on a standard definition monitor.
But, when you use standard definition video on a high definition monitor you need to scale the video to fit the monitor.

A good analogy is this.
A tiny person wears clothes that are 3 sizes too big, and shoes that are sliding off their feet, the shoes are so big.

Then, a big person tries on those same clothes, (After they were washed. Of course), and they fit like a glove, shoes fit too..
These "Specialty" Channels are the large person, and the regular channels are the smaller person.
The picture just looks better when viewing the "Specialty" channels on you hdtv.

If you watch a regular channel on your crt tv. Then it looks better than it did on you hdtv. Why?
Because the clothes fit the tiny person, but are too small for the big person.
The standard tv resolution fits the standard crt monitor much better than it fits the hdtv monitor, so it looks better on the crt.

The better the resolution of the video fits the monitor, the better it looks.

Also, Brightness looks better on a crt than on lcd hdtv. so the colors looks better on the crt too.

What does this mean?
It means that hdtv's are meant for use with high definition content, more than for use with regular tv channels.

If you want all your channels to fit your hdtv, you need to buy a upscaler.
A upscaler takes a regular resolution tv channel, or dvd, and changes it to a larger resolution.

The main benefit of a upscaler compared to just using the tv is it's deinterlacing quality.
The dvdo edge is recommended: link



5) Tips

- How far to sit from your Display matters.

For 1080P content, on a 1080P Monitor.
I find that measuring the actual height of the monitor, not including the case,
and multiplying this height by 3, will tell you how far you should sit from your monitor.

So if your monitors height if 21" high, then you would sit 63" from the tv.

For 720p or 480i, regular tv the distances are different.
You can sit further away and where your comfortable.
I don't know any rules of thumb for these resolutions.

And I mean bottom to top height, not diagonal height.

- The monitor height off the ground is set to your seated position.
When sitting down looking at the tv, your eyes should be facing the center of the tv without looking down or up to do so.
To look at the center of the tv you just look straight ahead, not up or down.

Looking up is harder than looking down, so if a different person has to look up where you just have to look straight ahead, then putting it lower so it is set to their eye level would be the best accommodation.

- How far to sit from your Display matters: What is the Biggest tv you should get?
As shown above, the distance you sit from your tv dictates how big the tv should be.
But I am now talking about the Biggest tv that should be used at a certain sitting or viewing distance.

What you should know is that there is a "Visual Cue" called "Interposition".
Interposition is defined as:
a. To insert or introduce between parts.
b. To place (oneself) between others or things.
c. To Intervene

When the edges of the screen are viewed they may create a interposition: seeing the film, and also seeing the edges of the screen with the background of the room.
But movies are a entertainment where there should be no need for "Intervention" toning down the experience.
In order to remove this Intervention that tones down the entertainment you increase the monitor size.

What is the biggest size monitor? It's not a exect science and this is only from what I have tested and found to be the best method.
How I found this recommendation I'm going to show below is I sat very close to my monitor and relaxed my eyes while watching a movie.
My eyes were not alert and wide, but relaxed and slightly squinting intently looking at the screen (The movie was Babylon A.D.).
While I was watching the movie I closed one eyelid, the right one, and with my left eye I looked to see if the full picture from the top left corner to the bottom right corner was visable diagonally, if it wasn't I moved back a bit.
This way the largest I could make the picture by sitting close and still see the full diagonal resolution with relaxed studying eyes was found.

What is the formula?
Measure the height of your monitor, top to bottom, not including the frame, just the actual physical screen when the tv is turned off.
Then multiply this height by 1.5 and that is how far you need to sit from the screen to get the biggest picture you can see easily.
So if your tv is 60" high, you would sit so your eyes would be 90" away from it.

With 3D tv and blu ray the need for a large tv with little interposition artifact is increased much more than it is for 2D movies.
But with all thing moderation is key and this means you don't have a tv that's too big! If it's too big you can't see the picture.
But this begs the question of how to get such a big monitor since this would create much electricity and emf radiation.
How to get such a big picture safetly with little to no emf radiation: a movie projector.
For the biggest picture viewed safely you need a movie projector.

- For those z5500 speakers. They should be just beyond your arms length, and positioned like this, click the picture.


I got the picture from the review here, "Loudspeaker Placement" section:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...-build-quality

The Z5500 have Dolby and dts if you use the toslink connection.
I read that using analog will sound better than through toslink though.
If you can get sound to your receiver through hdmi then the sound can get the best it can be.

- For Speaker Calibration
Link to demo video

- How to setup the Playstation 3 to the Z-5500 speakers

PS3 sound setup


Playstation 3 Settings
Sound settings
Audio output settings
Digital Out (Optical)
Check Dolby Digital 5.1
Check DTS 5.1

Settings
BD/DVD Settings
BD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital): Bitstream
BD / DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI): Linear PCM

Z-5500 settings: Input "Optical"

Connect the Playstation 3 to the Z-5500 speakers using toslink cable.

The result is surround sound.


- For monitor technology, or quality
There is two main qualities.

Brightness.
The brightness is blackness. The better quality looks black while lesser quality will look like a lit up blackness.

Contrast.
The contrast is whiteness. The better quality contrast the better you judge the picture to look.
But you cannot judge contrast correctly unless the brightness is first calibrated correctly.

lcd's, plasma's, etc

lcd's have different parts that make a difference in quality.
- tn monitors are noted for quick refresh time. Low quality.
- s-pva and s-ips are noted for better color reproduction and slower refresh times.
- led backlit monitors. Had been said to be the best quality lcd tv's.
- Plasma tv's have quality brightness, and when you see one the contrast makes it stand out for the quality level.

monitor lifespan

When the monitor advertises 60,000 or 50,000 hours lifespan. They mean something called "half life".
Half life is half the brightness and colors compared to when the monitor was brand new.

Now, there are varying degrees of dissipation of brightness and colors beginning the moment you turn the set on.

Taking a mean time manufacturer stated longevity of 50,000 hours of usage, times our average 5 hours per day, calculates to over 27 years of usage.
Typically 60,000 hours, or about 20 years if used 8 hours per day.

"NEC also contends that the LEDs will last much longer than fluorescent backlights, increasing display life from today's typical 25,000 hours to 50,000 hours. Another nice feature of LEDs, especially for mobile users, is their lower power requirements, which could translate to longer battery life."

link


led backlit: rgb vs white

"Highest image quality" despite white LED backlight

The major difference of Toshiba's LED backlight from Sony's and Sharp's backlights is its method used for the LED light source. While both Sony and Sharp used RGB three-color LED light sources, Toshiba employed white LED light source.

Generally speaking, RGB LEDs, rather than white LEDs, broaden "color gamut," one of the major indices of image quality. Nevertheless, Toshiba used white LEDs for its new LCD TVs, which it claims are "the highest image quality models of Regza products."

When asked why, Motomura said, "In fact, image quality is higher with a white LED backlight."

He explained it as follows. First, white LED light sources are more efficient in boosting image quality because the white balance fluctuates more easily when the light source is RGB LEDs. Second, image quality becomes more likely to degrade if the color gamut is extended more than necessary because it causes the display to render incorrect colors.

It is true that RGB LED backlights offer a wider color gamut than white LED backlights, but the color reproduction range of white LEDs is sufficient to render colors of most objects, Motomura said.

ink

How to get the most out of the contrast
Supposing your brightness is quality, and calibrated, and you have a fancy tv with quality contrast.
If you have ambient light, say that of a candle, shining while viewing the monitor.
The contrast quality will become equivalent to a lesser quality contrast.
In order to utilize the quality of your monitors contrast there need's to be no ambient light equivalent to or greater than that of a candle shining in the room your watching your tv.

- For Monitor sharpness Calibration.

I use the ntsc progressive test disk: link to test disks

For sharpness calibration I use the tv's menu and select sharpness so I can adjust the sharpness.
I set my dvd player to use 480p from the component output of my ps3. Composite cables at 480i using the test disk is hard on the eyes.

So in the test pattern is a long rectangle pattern with a bunch of lines, it's at the far left of the pattern.
The lines show dots. And on the outer edge of the pattern are dots that blur if the sharpness is too sharp or too dull.
You want the sharpness so the dots on the outer edge of the pattern are clearly visable.

- 240Hz and 120Hz LCD Tv's, 48Hz and 96hz Plasma Tv's

When people talk about 240Hz monitors they are talking about Really expensive monitors.
A true 240Hz monitor is really expensive, so to make it 240Hz at a reasonable cost they take a 120Hz tv and add technology to it to make it seem like a 240Hz tv.
http://www.youtube.com/user/HDTVShoo...11/_ay5HqjXeeo

What these lcd tv's do at 120Hz and 240Hz is something called: "pulldown", or "Interpolation".

Pulldown repeats a single frame multiple times before showing the next frame.
Interpolation takes multiple frames and adds video information not filmed but created by the monitor.

What people call quality in the avsforum, Flat Panel General & New FP Tech forum, is in Plasma using Pulldown, not interpolation.
And this too has different technology, pulldown in a Plasma tv.

As seen in the review over a cnet: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-33490589.html
Some Plasma tv's offer 48Hz pulldown, and some offer 96Hz pulldown.
They say that 48Hz is Flickery, but 96Hz is not, 96Hz shows quality Pulldown that looks beautiful.
To use the 48Hz and 96Hz option in these tv's, you have a video source going into the tv at 24P and then the option becomes available in the tv menu to put the tv to either 48Hz or 96Hz.

Using pulldown in Plasma maintains the film perception, using interpolation makes the film seem like 60Hz Soap Opera video.
The Soap Opera effect is seen as poor quality in the avsforum, Flat Panel General & New FP Tech forum.

- The importance of the color White.

"If you increase your backlight, you'll get brighter whites at the cost of grayer blacks"
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13589741

"The whites on Panny are known for being muddy whites. They are not that great. What Panny is known for are the blacks being the blackest.

I am going to upgrade soon, and I doubt I will buy another Panasonic."
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post17420008

THX mode in the Panasonic TC-P42G10 has the Contrast at full power.
As you may or may not know, Contrast is the white colors brightness level.
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...-33497899.html

So if your monitor has a backlight knob, and your white color is more yellow than white,
Turn your backlight to full power, or however high it needs to be so you think the white is nice color again.

As was said before, the contrast is what gives the sense of beauty in a monitor.
The brightness adds color performance, but brightness with no contrast quality is yellowish when it shows white color.
It's ugly to have quality brightness and no contrast to make the white color white.

- For 1366x768 monitors.

What should you do so you have a clear picture on your screen when using the tv for a htpc?

Read this tip knowing I don't Own a 1366x768 tv, I own a 1080p tv, but it worked on my tv and so it should also work o your tv.

- I own a ATI 2600xt videocard, pcie. And it has a resolution called "1360x768". I set the resolution to 1360x768 in Display Properties, then I clicked Apply.
1360 / 8 = 170
720 / 12 = 60

- Then in the DTV Attributes section of the ATI Catalyst settings, I select "Enable GPU scaling", "Maintain aspect ratio", then I clicked Apply.

- Then from DTV Scaling options, I set the slidebar to zero percent, or the far right, then I clicked Apply.

- For Monitor Calibration.

Calibrate the brightness first, contrast second, saturation third, hue fourth.

Calibrating this way looks nice and that's the point of calibration I think, but it doesn't use a Eye Pro Sensor.

I use the AVS HD 709 calibration disk and cyberlink powerdvd, and use the tv's menu to set the color.
The AVS HD 709 disk I use is the Patched I think. I use the Basic Setting patterns.
From this set of patterns I use the "Black Clipping" pattern first.
Then I use the "White clipping" pattern.
Thirdly I use the "APL clipping" pattern.
For the final pattern I use the "Flashing Color Bars" pattern.
(See the pdf manual to see the names I mentioned above.)
https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

From the "Black Clipping" pattern, "If your display is able to show the flashing bars numbered 2-16, ideally when you are done the bars from 16 down will blend together so that you can only see 17-25 flash."
From the "White Clipping" pattern, "you should always see flashing grays from 230 to 234 with this pattern on digital displays"
From the "APL Clipping" pattern, check to see if the black clipping and white clipping flashing sections look good.
From the "Flashing Color Bars" pattern, use the blue thx glasses and make the box in the center of the flashing bars neither too dark or too light when compared to the bar the box is centered in.

I attached a picture called "Patterns", it shows a Gradient Ramp.
You'll see white lines by the black and white. I find that where 17 is, by the black, if there is a Sliver of black merging into the 16 and darker black then the brightness is set properly.
Same for white, if there is a Sliver of white by 234 merging into the pure white of 235 and whiter then the contrast is set properly.
This is assuming that the bar shows 16 in the pure black color and 235 in the pure white color, so the sliver of black and white is opposite side of the line from the black and white.

If my videogame from my ps3 seems too dark then I open my gradient ramp and see if it is or not.
All the other patterns are second fiddle to what I see in the gradient ramp - if the gradient ramp shows it's too dark or bright I set the color to make it so it's set properly, no questions when I see it I just fix it.

_________________

Here is a alternate method of calibrating your display. I got the info from a different website and shortened the instructions. Here is the original article: link
The instructions below are my own words but I borrow a sentence or two from the article directly.

Stuff needed
Eye One: link
AVS HD calibration disk: link
HCFR Software: link

_____________________

Overview

On the display there is two steps that will be calibrated:
Step 1.) Brightness, Contrast
Step 2.) Greyscale

For step one you would use the Display's Brightness and Contrast controls to set it.
For step two you would need a Display with advanced calibration options called: RGB LowEnd, RGB HighEnd.

RGB LowEnd, RGB HighEnd is also called:
Sub-Brite, Sub-Contrast
Cutoff, Drive
Level, Gain
G2, Drive
BLK, WHT
Bias, Gain

When you set the Brightness and Contrast in Step one you set the Green Color by default.
When you set the RGB LowEnd, RGB HighEnd you set the Red and Blue Colors up.
RGB LowEnd sets the Red, Blue colour in the darker end of the black to white scale.
RGB HighEnd sets the Red, Blue colour in the lighter end of the black to white scale.

Once you set the step 1 and then the step 2 you would check step 1's results again to see it it needs adjusting.

_____________________

Detailed instruction

Step 1, The HCFR Software.) Install the HCFR Software and the Eye One driver. Then Copy the "EyeOne.dll" file from \\Program Files\\X-Rite\\i1Diagnostics to \\Program Files\\ColorHCFR\\

Launch the ColorHCFR software. Choose Advanced, Preferences, References, set the "Color Space - Standard" option to HDTV - REC 709.

Take out the Eye one senson and plug it into the PC your using with the HCFR software.
On the sensor remove the Diffusor, it is only used to measure ambient light with the Eye-One software.

From the HCFR menu click File, New. From the pop up box pick DVD Manual, from the sensor list pick Eye One. Click Finish.
From the HCFR Display window, on the right select the xyY option.

Now from the HCFR menu choose Measures, Sensor, Configure. From the Calibration Mode window choose the display type: crt, lcd, plasma, if you are using the Eye One Pro choose that instead of LCD Plasma or CRT.
Now you need to Calibrate the Eye One Senson. Put the sensor on a Black, non-porous, flat, opaque surface making sure no light gets in there then click "Calibrate internal sensor offsets". Click OK and close this window.

Now to put the sensor on the display. I am only talking about LCD and Plasma TV's, for Projectors you would use a tripod and put the senson on the tripod and put it in front of and pointing at the projector screen.
Put the Eye One flat against the screen and let it hang on the screen in the center of the screen.

On your display, set the RGBLowEnd and RGBHighEnd controls to their default values. If your display has a 6500K setting, you can do this by simply select it. If

Step 2, Calibrating the Contrast.)
From the AVS HD calibration disk go to the ColorHCFR Windows section choose 10% Greyscale, and then go to 100%.
The Eye one is over the white colored section and now in the HCFR buttons press the Green Triangle and you will see the "Selected Color" section show numbers.
The number you want to see in the "Selected Color" is the Data, FTL.
For CRT and Digital Projectors it is best at 12-16 ftL.
For Plasma and LCD it is best at 30-40 ftL.
The FTL is another way of interpreting the large caps Y value below the FTL number.

Adjust the Contrast using the Displays remote control so it's FTL is in the recommended best number.

Step 2, Calibrating the Brightness.)
From the AVS HD calibration disk go to the ColorHCFR Windows section choose 10% Greyscale, and then go to 10%.

With the Selected color section still active, the Brightness Large Caps Y should be 65% of the Contrast large caps Y value.
So if the large caps Y value of contrast is 47.387. 0.65% of this is (47.387 x 0.0065), or a Y value of 0.308.
Adjust the Displays Brightness using the remote control so the large caps Y value is 0.308.
If the Selected Color section isn't active press the Green Arror button to activate it.

If the Pluge patterns, the bars, don't look right then set the brightness using the Pluge so the brightness is not being clipped or too bright.
Using the sensor to set the brightness is done if the Gamma isn't bad on the TV, if after you set the brightness using the sensor the pluge black bars pattern isn't right then the Gamma on the TV is off.

Now you've set the contrast then the brightness now look at the contrast again.
Keep going back and forth between the contrast and brightness so they are set correctly after the other one is set.

That does it for brightness and contrast now to set the greyscale using the color blue and red.

Step 3, the greyscale.)
From the AVS HD calibration disk go to the ColorHCFR Windows section choose 10% Greyscale, and then go to 80%.
The Selected Color section is still active. If it's not press the green arrow to activate it.
On the Displays RGB HighEnd setup set the Red and Blue so the RGB colored bars are at 100%, When the colored bars are at 100% the small caps x, y below the data section show be close to (x=0.313 and y=0.329): the red controls affect x while the blue controls affect y.

From the AVS HD calibration disk go to the ColorHCFR Windows section choose 10% Greyscale, and then go to 30%.
On the Displays RGBLowEnd setup set the Red and Blue so the RGB colored bars are at 100%, When the colored bars are at 100% the small caps x, y below the data section show be close to (x=0.313 and y=0.329).

Then go check the 80% and redo the calibration for that then look at the 30% again.

Tip, Backlight.) Don't put the Backlight on full power. Leave it at default and Calibrate the TV then Raise the Backlight strength if the calibration calls for it.
LL
LL


There is new, and then you are new.
This is a moral of the bears and their cereal.
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post #2 of 43 Old 02-01-2008, 06:53 AM
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Thanks for this. The Z5500s have Dolby DIGITAL and DTS decoders built into the control unit, with optical, coaxial digital inputs as well as analog.
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post #3 of 43 Old 02-14-2008, 12:42 PM
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this guide helped me alot, but on the topic of speakers,

you can also go the cheap cheap route (even cheaper than above) and get a decent set of 5.1 analog, use the computer + ac3filter/ffdshow audio etc, and have the soundcard (even onboard 5.1) and route this out to the speakers.

I used z5300's (refurb, $80) on proper just-above-ear-height speaker stands, positioned as the picture above and on dolby's site routed thru the onboard HD sound 5.1 (Realtek e888) and spiderman/transformers effects are simply stunning.

the tv becomes a glorified monitor at 1920x1080p, but it does justice to a lot of those HD rips that are >8 gigs but well worth the download just to show off the capability of PC-based home-theater.


EDIT: in reading up on the z5500 link, i realized that these are "Near-Field" surround speakers which are actually biased to have the listener towards the front of the listening environment. in both setups, the rear speakers may need to be leveled out to increase the front speaker volumes for optimal listening.
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post #4 of 43 Old 04-23-2008, 02:17 PM
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On this subject, I find that when my HDTV LCD warms up...the image seems more focused and pronounced, than when I first turn the TV on...sounds arcayic, but I still think the pixels need to warmup or a at least the contrast needs to warm up first.


ANyone else have this phenomenom on their LCD?
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post #5 of 43 Old 05-20-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shingdaz View Post

On this subject, I find that when my HDTV LCD warms up...the image seems more focused and pronounced, than when I first turn the TV on...sounds arcayic, but I still think the pixels need to warmup or a at least the contrast needs to warm up first.


ANyone else have this phenomenom on their LCD?

It's the backlight that warms up, and yes it's 100% normal and effects every CCFL lit LCD.
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post #6 of 43 Old 05-20-2008, 04:52 PM
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Thanks a lot for this, will definetly help me out later!
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post #7 of 43 Old 05-26-2008, 11:28 AM
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Thank you. Super tips.
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post #8 of 43 Old 06-15-2008, 12:46 PM
 
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This is post was very "entertaining" to say the least!
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post #9 of 43 Old 06-20-2008, 04:59 PM
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can someone link which/where to get toslinks cables?? Thanks!
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post #10 of 43 Old 07-06-2008, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdee777 View Post

can someone link which/where to get toslinks cables?? Thanks!

Newegg must have some. Go look over there.


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post #11 of 43 Old 07-12-2008, 11:10 AM
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If the worst type of conductor for HDTV is the old fashioned "F" type screw connector at the ends of a length of R6 coax cable, then why do cable companies still deliver their digital products via that medium? How much sense does it make to require a 6' length of the new HDMI cable, to obtain a good picture, after it has been transferred over miles of R6 coax, if indeed, the R6 coax deteriorates the signal? Separating the sound and the video (and other components) of the digital signal should work better, God knows that is exactly what they did with Component, Composite and Svideo cables, but the old coax cable still seems to work despite every body telling us the opposite. Sending multiple frequencies and multiple signals across one conductor is an established technology that has worked, and evidently still does, even for the high bit rate digital signals.

Recall how we were all convinced that we needed those gold plated $100 composite cables when they first became the standard for that ancient Beta and VHS equipment? Only to discover after we spent our selves to the poor house, that only test equipment could detect any difference? Are you aware that in fact the R6 coax cable with the “F” connectors, that was the standard even way back then, would have been perfectly fine? We really did not need three separate wires with the three separate color coded connectors in the first place, but that is what we got. Are you confused by the fact that there really is a disadvantage in using “S”video, composite, and component cables for transmitting HD signals, but the difference is primarily because some of those conductors have minimal shielding? Are you aware that nothing beats out the shielding of high quality R6 coax?

HDMI – gotta be the same basic phenomena here. It must be more about FURURE APPLICATIONS, more about NEW PRODUCTS and, last but not least, more about new sources of “PROFIT”, than about an increase in quality. When I bought my Sony HDTV I was advised to buy one of the Sony HDMI cables at the Sony Style store. They wanted $135 for a 25' cable. I didn't buy it, even though the sales person scoffed in front of other customers. I went home and ordered a $25 cable online. It works just fine - as does a 25’ length of R6 coax cable with “F” connectors that I quickly and cheaply made myself. I had to buy an $11.00 crimper, but now I can make my own cables. Bet ya can’t make your own HDMI cable.

Perhaps it is necessary to purchase one of those top dollar HDMI cables for a distantly located 1080P player with the highest of bit rates signals, as we are advised. I don’t really know. But I do know the average HDMI cable, and, I am guessing, just about any R6 coax cable with “F” connectors will do the job just fine. So fine you won’t be able to tell the difference. And I can’t help but notice that every HD television made still has an “F” connector for the input, and every manufacturer of a STB that I know of, still has an “F” connector for the output. Furthermore, every maker of those high quality digital antenna preamps, splitters and line amplifiers still use the “F” connectors, as do both DirectTV and the Dish Network. If the R6 medium with the “F” connectors is so bad, why is it still so popular, and why does it seemingly work so well?
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post #12 of 43 Old 07-12-2008, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Jim Braun,

That's true, but I don't know any videocard from ati or nvidia that has a coaxial cable to the monitor.
This is the htpc forum, after all. And we use videocards from the pc to the monitor.


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post #13 of 43 Old 07-12-2008, 03:08 PM
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Sorry 8:13, didn't mean to inject off topic material. I was surfing here and stumbled on your third point:



3) High Definition Receiver

- Cables to tv from receiver matters.
There are a few different types of cables you can use to connect your receiver to you monitor.
The best would be hdmi, the worst would be a regular cable cord (Coaxial) you screw in.

List of best to Worst types of connectors you can use from your receiver to you tv. With 1 being the best, 5 the worst.
1) HDMI, or DVI
2) Component
3) S-Video
4) Composite
5) Coaxial (RF)

If you use the worst type of connector to your fancy hdtv. The Video quality will be poor.


Seemed appropriate point out that the "F" connector cable seems to be as good as any other type - certainly not the worst. Put the R6 coax/ "F" connectors up with the HDMI and I would agree with the order. If their is something i am not considering, let us know.
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post #14 of 43 Old 10-18-2008, 01:08 AM
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I think my NEC FE1250+ CRT looks better than any LCD or Plasma I've seen (and I've seen a lot -- right from the beginning). Maybe, at this time, the old CRT is still better where it matters -- black level, color accuracy and uniformity. Good analog VGA.

Now having said that, examine the technoologies -- generally Plasmas have looked decent right from the start. LCD had to play "catch up". Technologies have been developed to improve LCD black level, color uniformity and color accuracy. For computer monitors the choices are pretty much limited to old CRT and LCD (for any practical desktop size -- just for arguments sake -- 30 inches). "Catch up" for LCD has resulted in, roughly, three panel types:

1) TN - fast, cheap, bad viewing angles and color accuracy and found everywere in the USA
2) *VA - a bit slower, cost more, better viewing angles and color accuracy and not often found
3) S-IPS - kind of fast, usually costs a lot more, relatively great viewing angles, good color accuracy and almost impossible to find unless you want an Apple Cinema display (no HDCP (yet)).

So, to find a decent LCD (for now) scratch off TN from the start and look hard for the *VA and S-IPS panel types and don't forget to check for HDCP.
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post #15 of 43 Old 10-26-2008, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Braun View Post

Seemed appropriate point out that the "F" connector cable seems to be as good as any other type - certainly not the worst. Put the R6 coax/ "F" connectors up with the HDMI and I would agree with the order. If their is something i am not considering, let us know.

As an interconnect between a receiver (I've never seen a receiver with with an F connector for video out, so I'll assume that the term receiver includes cable/sat set top boxes,) and a TV, the F connector 75 ohm connections certainly are the worst. The reason is that when you use those connections, the STB is taking the signal, processing it down to 480i, composite, and modulating that along with the sound onto a standard NTSC channel (usually 3 or 4.)
While RG6 and F connectors have plenty of data bandwidth, you can't utilize it with the F connectors that are on STB's and TV's.
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post #16 of 43 Old 10-26-2008, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skrubol View Post

As an interconnect between a receiver (I've never seen a receiver with with an F connector for video out, so I'll assume that the term receiver includes cable/sat set top boxes,) and a TV, the F connector 75 ohm connections certainly are the worst. The reason is that when you use those connections, the STB is taking the signal, processing it down to 480i, composite, and modulating that along with the sound onto a standard NTSC channel (usually 3 or 4.)
While RG6 and F connectors have plenty of data bandwidth, you can't utilize it with the F connectors that are on STB's and TV's.

I see. Ok, will update the first post accordingly.


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post #17 of 43 Old 01-26-2009, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic C View Post

This is post was very "entertaining" to say the least!

What do you mean by this?
I'm a newbie in the beginning steps & misguidance can be a problem.
Please explain.
Phil
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post #18 of 43 Old 02-02-2009, 08:32 AM
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psteph, I'd recommend going somewhere else to start your learning, as this thread has a mix of good, odd, poorly worded, and wrong information.
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post #19 of 43 Old 02-09-2009, 11:33 AM
 
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I thought it was a rather good guide, and its easy to sift thru and skim read all the info you need, thanks for this
[img]http://www.**********/135l1040.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.**********/135l883.jpg[/img]
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post #20 of 43 Old 02-18-2009, 01:18 AM
 
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post #21 of 43 Old 04-20-2009, 09:06 AM
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I noticed an omission and something I believe is technically incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8:13 View Post

lcd's, plasma's, etc
snip
- backlit monitors. Had been said to be the best quality lcd tv's.
- Plasma tv's have quality brightness, and when you see one the contrast makes it stand out for the quality level.

out of all these technologies, only the led backlit one will be constantly bright from the first day of use to the last day of use when it blinks out and dies.
The others will get less beautiful to look at over time.

You left out LED in the - backlit monitors. All LCD TV's are backlit.

LED's also fade over time, I think their half-brightness at rated power is typically around 50,000 hours (5.7 years of continuous use.) They may use feedback to keep brightness constant, so there may be no dimming at all (and if the feedback is complex enough to look at R-G-B individually, the color temperature should not shift either,) but eventually the feedback will run out of headroom and it will start fading. LED's very rarely die catastrophically (unlike CCFL's and their electronics.)
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post #22 of 43 Old 05-04-2009, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I updated part 2 of the main guide. The pc part was updated.


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post #23 of 43 Old 05-06-2009, 05:48 PM
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sindiww is another spambot. If you have subscribed to this thread, don't click on the image links you get only in the email informing you of its posts.
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post #24 of 43 Old 05-09-2009, 08:29 PM
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I could not agree more on the tips written on this post.
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post #25 of 43 Old 05-15-2009, 04:56 PM
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Thank you for posting these excellent tips.
I found them very useful and were right on the money.

many thanks,
Edward
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post #26 of 43 Old 05-21-2009, 05:10 AM
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8:13

Why is my HDTV not excellent compared to my old tube tv? Boy can I relate to that question! I have SD tuners attached to my Sage TV server. The TV and media viewing is done via the SageTV extenders (HD200). I purchased a 52" LCD and all hell broke loose! The WAF went down several points, and I was dissapointed to see how different the HDTV looks compared to what the SD used to! I read on your solution to this issue that the use of the DVDO edge upscaler will help. Where do I place this device on my setup? Remeber, I am using extenders attached to my SD and HDTV LCD! Thanks in advance. Excellent post.
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post #27 of 43 Old 05-21-2009, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lfilomeno View Post

8:13

Why is my HDTV not excellent compared to my old tube tv? Boy can I relate to that question! I have SD tuners attached to my Sage TV server. The TV and media viewing is done via the SageTV extenders (HD200). I purchased a 52" LCD and all hell broke loose! The WAF went down several points, and I was dissapointed to see how different the HDTV looks compared to what the SD used to! I read on your solution to this issue that the use of the DVDO edge upscaler will help. Where do I place this device on my setup? Remeber, I am using extenders attached to my SD and HDTV LCD! Thanks in advance. Excellent post.

It's better to ask about the edge in the edge thread: link

The way the edge looks in the diagrams on the edge website is it upscales then goes to the reciever, then the reciever goes to the tv.
Or, it upscales, the signal then goes to the tv, so you plug in your source to it at standard definition, it upscales it, then it connects to your tv to display the picture.

To use the upscaling of the edge, the edge would need a input resolution lower than hd.


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post #28 of 43 Old 07-28-2009, 05:52 AM
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Hi everybody,

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post #29 of 43 Old 08-26-2009, 05:37 AM
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I think the VGA connector was missing from the otherwise connector list. Many laptops still have only VGA socket and many HDTVs have this socket as well. How ever not all understand the difference between VGA and DVI sockets. More info and pictures of different HDTV connectors: http://mymediaexperience.com/2009/08...-and-receiver/
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post #30 of 43 Old 10-26-2009, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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From the - How far to sit from your Display matters. tip in the first post, I added the text below.

- The monitor height off the ground is set to your seated position.
When sitting down looking at the tv, your eyes should be facing the center of the tv without looking down or up to do so.
To look at the center of the tv you just look straight ahead, not up or down.

Looking up is harder than looking down, so if a different person has to look up where you just have to look straight ahead, then putting it lower so it is set to their eye level would be the best accommodation.

I added these tips to the first post:

- 240Hz and 120Hz LCD Tv's, 48Hz and 96hz Plasma Tv's
- The importance of the color White.
- For Monitor Calibration. I modified this tip today as well.


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