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post #61 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TyrantII View Post

As I said, not here.

It's ~40% more pixels on screen. It's very noticeable.

maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?

so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.

if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.

just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution

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post #62 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

Yep, I notice the difference between 720p, 900p and 1080p in an instant with no assistance needed. I think a lot of people are being deceived by the "comparison" videos floating around on the web, encoded at low bitrates and 720p/30fps.  In practice, its easy to pick out which of the two looks better. 

And even if the differences are miniscule, it still begs the question of why you'd want to spend $100 more on the xbox one. I hear all the time about how the common man doesn't care about power, as demonstrated by the weaker system usually selling more....mostly because it's cheaper IMO. This time around the cheaper box is significantly more powerful. Who wants to pay more for less?

i don't know how i got roped into defending the xbox(a week ago i hated ms and wanted them to burn), but basically because you are getting 100bux of 'accessories' with the kinect thrown in.

it's just like last generation when ppl complained that the ps3 was 'more expensive' because they bundled 'more stuff' into the console. to buy a ps4 with the camera is basically the same as buying the xbox one. imo, it's a wash on price.

i agree, the cheaper system often does sell more, and so far that seems to be the case here too. but the xbox does seem(whether or not it can delivery, i'm still unsure) to offer a lot more in their console, aside from gaming. if it can start replacing WDTV's and roku's etc, then maybe the extra 100bux actually seems cheap for some.

in either event, i think 100bux is small at this point. and consumers are likely to choose the system they want, not the one they can afford. i'm still very much on the fence, but the extra 100 lines of resolution on a handful of games i may or may not end up playing isn't high up on my list. the controllers, reliability, game libraries, and how they handle offline gaming are more important factors for me.

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post #63 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 09:58 AM
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Definitely a great right up and great comments from forum posters...
If your an early adopter such as myself you have to expect issues.....
I went with the Ps4 because of microsofts original xbox one policies......
I figure buying a xbox one is like going back to an abusive partner who only
Saw the light after beating the crap out of you and you and getting arrested.
And as for lack of 3d until later down the road, I was upset at first but remembered
I choose to buy a game system at launch. I'm 39, this not the Atari 5200 or Tandyvision
(Radio shacks version) of intellivision, these units only moving parts were the plastic dust flaps
That protected the cartridge slot. Today's tech is thousands of times more advanced
then they were, so not to expect issues would be silly. It's like comparing the weight brothers first
Airplane to a state of the art stealth fighter.
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post #64 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?

so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.

if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.

just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution

The Xbox hasn't proven to have better audio. It's got a fixed function (I think) audio block (SHAPE) that takes a little stress off the CPU that the PS4 doesn't seem to have, but it doesn't really help out quality-wise. Both have programmable DSPs in the APU (probably the exact same one), and it may be the case that the PS4 DSP is eventually put to use actually making games sound better via AMDs trueaudio (right now it's mostly just used for de/compression), while the Xbox DSP is also used for de/compression and for noise reduction for kinect. But that might change as well. The trueaudio API doesn't seem to be finished yet, so there's probably some secret sauce waiting to be unlocked on both sides.

Time will tell, but the Xbox doesn't have any clear advantage on paper for audio.

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post #65 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 11:19 AM
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first problem in Europe: Xbox One Sky 50Hz stutter
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/xbox-50hz-201311233468.htm
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post #66 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

The Xbox hasn't proven to have better audio. It's got a fixed function (I think) audio block (SHAPE) that takes a little stress off the CPU that the PS4 doesn't seem to have, but it doesn't really help out quality-wise. Both have programmable DSPs in the APU (probably the exact same one), and it may be the case that the PS4 DSP is eventually put to use actually making games sound better via AMDs trueaudio (right now it's mostly just used for de/compression), while the Xbox DSP is also used for de/compression and for noise reduction for kinect. But that might change as well. The trueaudio API doesn't seem to be finished yet, so there's probably some secret sauce waiting to be unlocked on both sides.

Time will tell, but the Xbox doesn't have any clear advantage on paper for audio.

i think i need to go do some more research, because all these arguments are what i thought about the ps4's video. sure it SHOULD be more capable, and should result in better performance, but it hasn't PROVEN that, YET. and only time will tell for sure.

i'm still kind of confused how i ended up on the xbox side of things too, haha. i still feel like pending a trial of the new ds4 controller, i'm more likely to get a ps4 first. it seems to address the things i care about most(offline gaming ability)

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post #67 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 01:20 PM
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finally got a chance to hold the new Dual Shock controller. I was amazed at the difference it had compared to the old one. It may look the same but it is FAR better. I was really impressed. Didnt use the console at all though.

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post #68 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 01:32 PM
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I think it's funny on this forum no one mentioned that the Xbox One comes with a build in quick Calibration suite. That is pretty nice if you ask me. Either way both systems will have great games. Right now i like the Xbox One more just cause of its Home Theater integration.

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post #69 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 02:10 PM
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Wut? Really? News to me. 1st thing to try out when i get home. B-) Thanks
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post #70 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

maybe i'm being fed incorrect info then. it was my understanding both new gen consoles support 1080p gaming. forza is 1080p is it not?

so the differences in SOME games, isn't as clear cut as 720p vs 1080p. i would agree, there is a difference between 720p xbox 360 games, and 1080p ps4 games. but compared to the xbox one, that difference becomes smaller, and so far, the examples i've seen weren't obvious.

if i'm misunderstanding, then my apologies. i did not mean to say 720p = 1080p.

just to add more to the discussion, i'm surprised nobody is talking about the xbox one's superior audio capabilities. another thing that probably wouldn't get noticed outside of the enthusiasts that visit these boards, but in a lot of ways better audio can be just as or more effective than a slightly better resolution

No apologies needed, I'm just a stickler when it comes to the 720P/1080P thing. Especially here being AVS, and especially due to the nature of games.

Both systems do support 1080P (just as they both technically support 4K) and I fully expect to see the XB1 hitting 1080P30/60 for it's games down the road. But ATM the only launch game that made the 1080P60 cut was Forza. It also went though some slight IQ downgrades from E3/the commercials to hit that it seems. Now, will that matter if MS creates the next super IP game that no one can live without? Hell no!

So yes, both systems support 1080P, but one is having a bit more trouble right now. As the API matures and developers understand the system better you'll probably see that issue go away. But the same can be said about the PS4, and it's resources will be put towards other things than just getting to 1080P.
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post #71 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


i think i need to go do some more research, because all these arguments are what i thought about the ps4's video. sure it SHOULD be more capable, and should result in better performance, but it hasn't PROVEN that, YET. and only time will tell for sure.

i'm still kind of confused how i ended up on the xbox side of things too, haha. i still feel like pending a trial of the new ds4 controller, i'm more likely to get a ps4 first. it seems to address the things i care about most(offline gaming ability)

 

I mean, I understand why people are skeptical. It's common sense, right? Sony claimed the PS3 was soooo much more powerful than the xbox 360 (and in some ways it was), but the games usually didn't look any better, and often looked worse. So why should anyone believe them this time? 

 

The difference is that last time the consoles had radically different hardware under the hood, so you couldn't just isolate a few numbers and assume one is going to be more powerful than the other. The hardware came from completely different manufacturers, used different techniques....you just really couldn't compare them like for like. It was completely apples vs. oranges. This time around everything is made by AMD, they're using the same modular architecture. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and bigger apples. It doesn't take a PhD to know which is going to make more juice. It's already proven it with a ton of third party cross platform games. If there's a difference between them, the PS4 version looks better.  If there isn't a difference, it's because the devs didn't bother going the extra mile and left some of the PS4s power on the table.

 

The audio is a somewhat different story, because on a micro level there seem to be some significant differences.  But the audio blocks on the APU are still very tiny compared to the CPU/GPU, and when you take a step to the macro level, there simply isn't enough there on the xbox side to claim any real advantage. Even if it can offload some CPU/GPU tasks, that doesnt make up for the fact that the PS4 GPU is way bigger, and can pick up all of that slack and then some. There's nothing you can do on an ASIC or DSP or than you can't do on a CPU/GPU, and the CPU/GPU is significantly more flexible. From everything I know (which includes a few conversations with industry insiders that shall not be named), the Xbox's audio capabilities have been oversold, and the PS4's has been undersold. The reason I'm waiting for it to shake out is because parts of this are literally still a work in progress. In the end there's nothing the xbox will be able to do audio-wise that the PS4 can't, and I could make a pretty good case that the PS4 will trump the xbox on audio as well. But that being said, if there's any one aspect of gaming where I generally expect there will be parity, it'll be audio.  Unlike video, where you can just raise the resolution and it simply looks better in every way, there's no simple method for an audio programmer to just turn a few knobs and make everything sound better.     


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post #72 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 03:44 PM
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All I can say is I got a PS4 based on it's theoretical performance ability and am looking on longingly at the XB folks with their good games (I only got BF4) and slick user interface.

The better games is what will ultimately decide the winner, graphics or not, but MS is doing everything to prove that the more pleasant ride makes up for less horse power...

I have to agree with the sentiment this is a pretty sad next gen though... I think in part it's due to the race to get a product out early meaning that we aren't seeing much real next get action, mostly just ported PC/last gen action.

But even looking forward I think the biggest limitation comes from the fact that we have pretty much stagnated on input/output. It's still a 2D visual output with surround sound and some minor tactile feedback and it's still for the most part the same two sticks and group of buttons we have had since the PS1/Xbox era.

We are seeing rehashes of the same game mechanics over and over with different costumes. It's like how every movie made nowadays is a story that was already told before with different characters. The games are largely the same but with higher resolution.

I think we need a different kind of input to allow for new types of gameplay... I like where kinect is trying to go with detailed ability to use your whole body as a real input but I feel until we see some decent VR (ie rift with full tactile feedback) we are locked into generally the same game types and ideas... and no matter how pretty they get, they will not feel really next gen.

We went from generic shapes representing things to pictures that looked reasonably like those things to 3D representations of real things, to realistic looking 3D representations of realistic things with enough detail to really get some depth of choice and action. Beyond this things just get prettier but you don't open any real doorways into game options. No matter how much more detailed environments get my interaction with them is limited to two thumb sticks and a handfull of buttons. That's why things don't feel next gen anymore.... there is no leap in immersion like there was before. There is just a polishing of the current level of immersion.
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post #73 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 03:44 PM
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Big +1 bd2003. You beat me to that explanation. People love to bring up PS3 and 360 with regards to graphics differences. You can't look at that and say the PS4 and XB1 outcome will be the same. Nope. They were two completely different architectures. One very easy to code, one very hard. Both had little advantages over each other. This time the PS4 and XB1 architecture are very similar but the PS4 has more power. So it's going to be extremely easy for developers to show better graphics with their PS4 version. We're already seeing this at launch with games being 720p on XB1 and 1080p on PS4. The difference will be more obvious over the months and years.

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post #74 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bd2003 View Post

I mean, I understand why people are skeptical. It's common sense, right? Sony claimed the PS3 was soooo much more powerful than the xbox 360 (and in some ways it was), but the games usually didn't look any better, and often looked worse. So why should anyone believe them this time? 

The difference is that last time the consoles had radically different hardware under the hood, so you couldn't just isolate a few numbers and assume one is going to be more powerful than the other. The hardware came from completely different manufacturers, used different techniques....you just really couldn't compare them like for like. It was completely apples vs. oranges. This time around everything is made by AMD, they're using the same modular architecture. It's not apples and oranges, it's apples and bigger apples. It doesn't take a PhD to know which is going to make more juice. It's already proven it with a ton of third party cross platform games. If there's a difference between them, the PS4 version looks better.  If there isn't a difference, it's because the devs didn't bother going the extra mile and left some of the PS4s power on the table.

The audio is a somewhat different story, because on a micro level there seem to be some significant differences.  But the audio blocks on the APU are still very tiny compared to the CPU/GPU, and when you take a step to the macro level, there simply isn't enough there on the xbox side to claim any real advantage. Even if it can offload some CPU/GPU tasks, that doesnt make up for the fact that the PS4 GPU is way bigger, and can pick up all of that slack and then some. There's nothing you can do on an ASIC or DSP or than you can't do on a CPU/GPU, and the CPU/GPU is significantly more flexible. From everything I know (which includes a few conversations with industry insiders that shall not be named), the Xbox's audio capabilities have been oversold, and the PS4's has been undersold. The reason I'm waiting for it to shake out is because parts of this are literally still a work in progress. In the end there's nothing the xbox will be able to do audio-wise that the PS4 can't, and I could make a pretty good case that the PS4 will trump the xbox on audio as well. But that being said, if there's any one aspect of gaming where I generally expect there will be parity, it'll be audio.  Unlike video, where you can just raise the resolution and it simply looks better in every way, there's no simple method for an audio programmer to just turn a few knobs and make everything sound better.     

the other reason i'm only 'skeptical' and not flat out ignoring it, is that this time around the ps4 is actually the simpler system to program for. I do realize things are a bit different this time around, but I still want to see some more examples, and see what the industry does with the software before I decide. if games are made for the xbox, and then ported over to the ps4, we may not see the ps4's potential except for exclusives.

imo, both 'major' advantages of the consoles are greatly unproven at this point.

XBOX:
theoretically has more media features, more integration, a smoother interface, etc. but I really need to experience these things in a similar setup as mine before I accept them as useful

PS:
has more power which theoretically should allow more games to play at high resolutions. but it's still up to the developers to make that distinction. last gen, many developers that made cross-platform games simply didn't go through the trouble of tweaking the game to higher specs for the more powerful ps3. the simpler design of the ps4 might make it easier to do this, or might even make it the industry standard for cross-platform games. in 6months-1 year we'll have a good idea about this.

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post #75 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

All I can say is I got a PS4 based on it's theoretical performance ability and am looking on longingly at the XB folks with their good games (I only got BF4) and slick user interface.

The better games is what will ultimately decide the winner, graphics or not, but MS is doing everything to prove that the more pleasant ride makes up for less horse power...

I have to agree with the sentiment this is a pretty sad next gen though... I think in part it's due to the race to get a product out early meaning that we aren't seeing much real next get action, mostly just ported PC/last gen action.

But even looking forward I think the biggest limitation comes from the fact that we have pretty much stagnated on input/output. It's still a 2D visual output with surround sound and some minor tactile feedback and it's still for the most part the same two sticks and group of buttons we have had since the PS1/Xbox era.

We are seeing rehashes of the same game mechanics over and over with different costumes. It's like how every movie made nowadays is a story that was already told before with different characters. The games are largely the same but with higher resolution.

I think we need a different kind of input to allow for new types of gameplay... I like where kinect is trying to go with detailed ability to use your whole body as a real input but I feel until we see some decent VR (ie rift with full tactile feedback) we are locked into generally the same game types and ideas... and no matter how pretty they get, they will not feel really next gen.

We went from generic shapes representing things to pictures that looked reasonably like those things to 3D representations of real things, to realistic looking 3D representations of realistic things with enough detail to really get some depth of choice and action. Beyond this things just get prettier but you don't open any real doorways into game options. No matter how much more detailed environments get my interaction with them is limited to two thumb sticks and a handfull of buttons. That's why things don't feel next gen anymore.... there is no leap in immersion like there was before. There is just a polishing of the current level of immersion.

totally agree. I also wonder if the age of the typical gamer has something to do with it as well. I mean, i'm sure the xbox one is new and impressive to an 8yr old. but somebody in their late 20's to early 40's that has been through the NES/sega days and everything since, we've seen it all before already. the fact is, the ps3 and xbox were REALLY close to maxing out current tv resolutions and a/v gear capabilities. there wasn't much left to improve on. if these consoles game out next year, or the year after when more 4k displays were in ppl's homes, and they supported 4k resolutions, then it'd be a large jump, and feel 'next gen' worthy. it just seems like 1080p is way too old, even though we haven't really had 1080p gaming on the a console, 1080p isn't new, isn't flashly, and is already on the verge of being replaced. so it's hard to make 1080p feel new again.

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post #76 of 1036 Old 11-25-2013, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the other reason i'm only 'skeptical' and not flat out ignoring it, is that this time around the ps4 is actually the simpler system to program for. I do realize things are a bit different this time around, but I still want to see some more examples, and see what the industry does with the software before I decide. if games are made for the xbox, and then ported over to the ps4, we may not see the ps4's potential except for exclusives.

imo, both 'major' advantages of the consoles are greatly unproven at this point.

XBOX:
theoretically has more media features, more integration, a smoother interface, etc. but I really need to experience these things in a similar setup as mine before I accept them as useful

PS:
has more power which theoretically should allow more games to play at high resolutions. but it's still up to the developers to make that distinction. last gen, many developers that made cross-platform games simply didn't go through the trouble of tweaking the game to higher specs for the more powerful ps3. the simpler design of the ps4 might make it easier to do this, or might even make it the industry standard for cross-platform games. in 6months-1 year we'll have a good idea about this.

Except we're already seeing it. If there was ever a time for devs to cut corners and target the lowest common denominator, launch would have been it. And a few did, but the majority of cross platform games are showing better on the ps4, and in almost all cases it's mostly just a resolution bump. This isn't something that's going away...there are certain aspects of the Xbox one design that don't make it very well suited to high resolutions and frame rates. It's not a theoretical advantage, it's happening in practice already with multiple titles.

The vast majority of 3rd party games nowadays are being made not only for the consoles, but the PC. A platform that's infinitely variable, so scalability is a necessity. It's really not any extra effort to exploit the ps4 at that point.
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post #77 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devedander View Post

All I can say is I got a PS4 based on it's theoretical performance ability and am looking on longingly at the XB folks with their good games (I only got BF4) and slick user interface.

The better games is what will ultimately decide the winner, graphics or not, but MS is doing everything to prove that the more pleasant ride makes up for less horse power...

I have to agree with the sentiment this is a pretty sad next gen though... I think in part it's due to the race to get a product out early meaning that we aren't seeing much real next get action, mostly just ported PC/last gen action.

But even looking forward I think the biggest limitation comes from the fact that we have pretty much stagnated on input/output. It's still a 2D visual output with surround sound and some minor tactile feedback and it's still for the most part the same two sticks and group of buttons we have had since the PS1/Xbox era.

We are seeing rehashes of the same game mechanics over and over with different costumes. It's like how every movie made nowadays is a story that was already told before with different characters. The games are largely the same but with higher resolution.

I think we need a different kind of input to allow for new types of gameplay... I like where kinect is trying to go with detailed ability to use your whole body as a real input but I feel until we see some decent VR (ie rift with full tactile feedback) we are locked into generally the same game types and ideas... and no matter how pretty they get, they will not feel really next gen.

We went from generic shapes representing things to pictures that looked reasonably like those things to 3D representations of real things, to realistic looking 3D representations of realistic things with enough detail to really get some depth of choice and action. Beyond this things just get prettier but you don't open any real doorways into game options. No matter how much more detailed environments get my interaction with them is limited to two thumb sticks and a handfull of buttons. That's why things don't feel next gen anymore.... there is no leap in immersion like there was before. There is just a polishing of the current level of immersion.

I agree with this sentiment, which is why I think it was a great decision by Microsoft to include the Kinect with every console sold. I think the original Kinect was a prototype at best, and with only 25% of the user base owning it, there wasn't much incentive for developers to use it. Now we'll get to see its true potential, and we've already seen how MS has fully integrated it with the interface (and could do so even further with improved gesture support).

The bottom line is that Microsoft is trying to redefine how we interact with entertainment in our living rooms, while Sony delivered an affordable mid-range gaming PC in a compact package. I think both approaches have their merits, but I know which one says "next gen" to me.

As I've stated previously, I own both and have never been a "fanboy" of a particular console/company. I just know that the Xbox One experience feels fresh to me, while the PS4 is the same old experience (for better or worse). Now let's bring on the games! I can only play Forza and Killzone so many times...
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post #78 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 07:29 AM
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For those who are still debating what system to get I think it is obvious that it's the games that will make the decision for you in the future.

That said,

This News/Speculation:

http://www.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/1r5qo4/the_official_crash_bandicoot_website_owned_and/

has made my wife scream at me that we need to get a PS4.

Edit: I completely understand why you guys say that the X1 feels next gen but the PS4 doesnt because you interact with it the same exact way. But dont forget, there is the Playstation Camera which Sony claims they will be adding more features to.

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #79 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 09:27 AM
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Man, Microsoft really did screw up designing their console. The cost breakdown of the parts is out, and the results are shocking. That esram really is expensive... Even if they drop Kinect they can't beat Sony on price without taking a bigger hit than them.

Neither console is making a profit at their current prices after retailer margins are added in. (Roughly 20% profit at their MSRP)

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=723016
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post #80 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

Man, Microsoft really did screw up designing their console. The cost breakdown of the parts is out, and the results are shocking. That esram really is expensive... Even if they drop Kinect they can't beat Sony on price without taking a bigger hit than them.

Neither console is making a profit at their current prices after retailer margins are added in. (Roughly 20% profit at their MSRP)

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=723016

Actually Microsoft may be making about a $30 profit on the Xbox One.

Microsoft squeezes little profit out of each Xbox One


http://www.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57613758-75/microsoft-squeezes-little-profit-out-of-each-xbox-one/
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post #81 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 09:58 AM
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Retailer margins. They pay significantly less than MSRP for the consoles they sell. I've spoken with someone inside the main offices of a major retailer back at the Wii U launch. Retailers demand they make at least a 20% profit based on what they paid. ($100 paid equals a $120 selling price at a $20 profit)

Both companies are taking a loss thanks to having to mark them down for retailers.

Rough estimate on retailer wholesale.

PS4 = $333 ($48 loss)
XBO = $418 ($53 loss)
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post #82 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 10:09 AM
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Can someone confirm if you're able to get surround sound from your cable box thru the xbone hdmi input. I read a review that sound came out in 2 channel instead of 5.1. That would be a deal breaker for me. Also some reviews say picture quality is degraded when going thru the xbone. How are these issues possible if it's only supposed to be pass thru?

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post #83 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by justindion View Post

Can someone confirm if you're able to get surround sound from your cable box thru the xbone hdmi input. I read a review that sound came out in 2 channel instead of 5.1. That would be a deal breaker for me. Also some reviews say picture quality is degraded when going thru the xbone. How are these issues possible if it's only supposed to be pass thru?

It is supposed to be fixed in a future update, but for now it is true. It isn't just pass through, the Xbox One processes everything that goes through.
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post #84 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 10:39 AM
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I'll be sticking with the Xbox 360 for a while (at least a year or two) until they fix all the hardware issues and the price drops by $100-150. I'll probably end up going with the Xbox One, but I'm really interested to see the Blu-ray performance of both consoles since Microsoft has put in a BR drive into their system. We all know the PS3 was a beast of a Blu-ray player, so I hope that AVS puts out reviews of both consoles as Blu-ray players soon.

 

Cheers!

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post #85 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON View Post

It is supposed to be fixed in a future update, but for now it is true. It isn't just pass through, the Xbox One processes everything that goes through.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like I will be sending mine back. Guess I'm stuck with my bare bones ps4

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post #86 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justindion View Post

Can someone confirm if you're able to get surround sound from your cable box thru the xbone hdmi input. I read a review that sound came out in 2 channel instead of 5.1. That would be a deal breaker for me. Also some reviews say picture quality is degraded when going thru the xbone. How are these issues possible if it's only supposed to be pass thru?

You can do multi-channel from your cable box. You have to enable the setting for it. Go to Settings > TV & OneGuide settings > Troubleshooting > Surround sound
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post #87 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 01:07 PM
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Except we're already seeing it. If there was ever a time for devs to cut corners and target the lowest common denominator, launch would have been it. And a few did, but the majority of cross platform games are showing better on the ps4, and in almost all cases it's mostly just a resolution bump. This isn't something that's going away...there are certain aspects of the Xbox one design that don't make it very well suited to high resolutions and frame rates. It's not a theoretical advantage, it's happening in practice already with multiple titles.

The vast majority of 3rd party games nowadays are being made not only for the consoles, but the PC. A platform that's infinitely variable, so scalability is a necessity. It's really not any extra effort to exploit the ps4 at that point.

we'll just have to accept a difference of opinions. maybe it's the coach in me, but I never look for the best team at the start of the season, I want the best team at the end of the season...

the way I see it, 1080p is the ceiling. and it's not about whether or not the ps4 is already there, it's about whether or not the xbox one can get there, and how soon. if 4months from now every major xbox one release is in 1080p, then what? it's not like ps4 is going to start releasing games in 1200p or some obscure resolution no tv can play natively.

so, I will continue to watch and wait.

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post #88 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 01:39 PM
 
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Chipworks analysis of the XB1: http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-xbox-one/
Quote:
The Main Processor

Zooming in on the main board, we can identify the DRAM as SK Hynix H5TQ4G63AFR DDR3 SDRAM. The main processor chip has the same style of heat-dissipating package as the PS4 CPU, and the die is actually larger at 363 sq. mm. (vs 348 sq.mm. for the PS4 die), but with 47 MB of SRAM in there that’s not surprising.

The Xbox, although it also uses an 8GB main system memory to which both the CPU and GPU have access, chose a lower-power but lower performance DDR3 interface. To compensate for this slower main memory, a 32MB ultra high speed dedicated graphics memory is included on die as an embedded SRAM block, together with the CPU and GPU. Necessarily, programming for such an architecture will be more complex. However, the theoretical peak performance of the two systems could be very similar. Others can more usefully comment on ultimate performance, while Chipworks has the privilege of being about to share the die images of these monster processors with you. The images below include an annotated view of the poly layer of the Xbox C/GPU/SRAM die.



PS4 for comparison: http://www.chipworks.com/en/technical-competitive-analysis/resources/blog/inside-the-sony-ps4/
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post #89 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 01:57 PM
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Too bad didn't go all the way and identified video and audio processors.
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post #90 of 1036 Old 11-26-2013, 02:12 PM
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we'll just have to accept a difference of opinions. maybe it's the coach in me, but I never look for the best team at the start of the season, I want the best team at the end of the season...

the way I see it, 1080p is the ceiling. and it's not about whether or not the ps4 is already there, it's about whether or not the xbox one can get there, and how soon. if 4months from now every major xbox one release is in 1080p, then what? it's not like ps4 is going to start releasing games in 1200p or some obscure resolution no tv can play natively.

so, I will continue to watch and wait.

Microsoft will have to either drop effects or resolution to match the PS4. There is already a major system bottleneck preventing widespread 1080p, making resolution the easiest choice for what to scale back. If anything, the gap will widen over time as developers start to use GPGPU functions. Sony has a massive advantage here.
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