New $300 UHD Video Pack from Samsung - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


just fyi, i'm from canada, the land of free health care and 100% markups on cellular and internet services.

whatever you guys are paying, i'm probably paying double, and getting half the speed, with half the cap. recently my IP raised their cap from 100gb's to i think 150 now. all i know is i was paying them for years while only using about 2gb a month, and the first month i hit 110, i got an email warning me to stop or they charge me extra...

this is where i go conspiracy theory, but our internet providers, are also the companies that provide cable tv. and i'm sure it hasn't slipped their view that increasing data caps would lessen the need for many ppl to have cable tv.

Comcast realized this that is why they are buying up media companies to extend their grasp and vertically integrate their business.

Health care in Canada. Everyone gets it but it isn't exactly free since everyone pays a heavy price for it and has no choice.
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post #62 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by thrillcat View Post

Absolutely. I just wish they would embrace that role and offer better internet service, optimized for video streaming.

If all the players involved would look at the big picture, they could get more accurate viewership ratings over the entire nation instead of a cross section. They could adjust their production budgets relative to what people actually want to watch. They could stop spending money producing garbage to fill 20 hours of a network that has 4 successful hours per day. They could stop wasting their video bandwidth to run programming that nobody watches. The cable companies would no longer be held hostage by the content providers. The viewers could pay for what they want.

Everyone wins?

This would be nice if worked this way but it is going backwards with companies consolidating. Just getting larger and larger and not much of a competition. Before Verizon expanded into the neighborhood I was pretty much told by a Comcast rep to leave if I didn't like their service.

Verizon tried the TV thing and tried to people and market shares but they have since given up on expanding their FIOS network. They've gone so far as to cut an agreement with Comcast to direct customers looking for FIOS in areas they don't have service to Comcast.

My internet service has gotten only slightly faster but in the past 6 years or so has gone up by 1/3. And they keep raising it a couple bucks every years.

There is a lawsuit in CA against Verizon for telling people they don't fix landlines to pushed people into their internet, TV, and VOIP service,

The budgeting issue is a lot more complicated. The companies making successful shows are owned by other companies. Breaking Bad on AMC was produced by Sony.
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post #63 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by L_T View Post


The budgeting issue is a lot more complicated. The companies making successful shows are owned by other companies. Breaking Bad on AMC was produced by Sony.

Sure, but AMC pays Sony. HGTV pays Pietown and Edelman and Scripps. Exact viewership numbers will really put a value (or remove a value) from productions, so nets know how much a show is really worth, and production companies know how much they should be spending on production for each series, what to pitch, what to kill.

The problem right now is that media conglomerates are creating crap networks with very little decent programming so they have more advertising available to sell, and they're forcing cable companies to carry this garbage or they don't get the stuff their customers want.

If the system is tweaked in the right way, the production companies can make more for the good programming and stop wasting time and resources on the crap and still walk away with the same cash flow.

If everyone refocused at the same time, this could be accomplished. It won't. It might happen, but it will be someone forcing the hand of everyone else and making a power play to be greedy, which will then in turn kill off some companies and piss off the rest.

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post #64 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim McC View Post

No way. $60 per movie? mad.gif

Well I remember when the first VHS and Beta movies went on sale in the very early 1980s. They were $60 as well. And that's before Beta and VHS HiFi technology. And moreover, that was sixty 1980s dollars!

So perhaps it's not too much at all for being on the cutting edge.
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post #65 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by stevenjw View Post

EXACTLY! That's an order of magnitude and therefore a huge difference.

My concern is that both HDD download solutions (Sony's and Samsung's) is the quality of what they're calling 4K. The movies need to look better than BD; the closer to the quality of the clips, the better. If it looks minimally better than upscaled BD on my projector, there's no motivation on my part to pay their prices. $6 a movie may be a different story as that's a good BD sale price. It's all about quality, convenience, and price IMHO.

I agree, but I am hopeful they will be a large step-up in quality. I think (hope?) the studios do want to promote the material that does indeed look better in 4K/UHD.

Just as an aside, I recently got the first samsung 4K box to pair with their 65" UHD. This one was free and has a couple of documentaries along with a number of short videos shot in 4k. The TV itself cost me a little more than what their next priced 1080p set would have and while it is a very nice set, I must say that upconverted material looks similar to normal 1080p to my eye (I also have a smaller flat screen and a Sony 1080p projector as well). However, the 4K clips on the free hard drive are stunning. While many here are scoffing at 4K, I remember how I felt about seeing HDTV for the first time (or even the first time watching dvds at 480p on an HD set!) and I can say that after years of training my eyes to watch 1080, watching real 4K material is like discovering HDTV for the first time. Some can talk all about improved black levels, etc. as being more important than increased resolution (and agree this should make things even better), but seeing real 4K material on a 4K display is amazing.
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post #66 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by SMHarman View Post

Hold on, there was a fact change to the OP.


This was originally posted as a $300 for an HDD with 5 movies, thus $60 a movie.  Later clarification detailed the download abilities to get more movies, apparently within the same price making this $6 a movie.

Big change.

Read my post that I'm fine with $60/movie. Nothing changed. LaserDisc players were $500 with movies costing around $100 and the format thrived for almost two decades.

People nowadays want everything for nothing. The world doesn't work that way.

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post #67 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
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Well we have been given all you can eat Netflix for $7.99 a month we, I start to think like that.

 

I just signed up for Rhapsody, realizing that I happily spend $10 a month on a CD.  New catalog items appear on Rhapsody promptly so instead of paying $10 for one CD a month I now rent my music.  It took me a mental leap to do this over say Pandora for free (with limited ads on Roku).

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post #68 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 11:04 AM
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Saying Laserdisc "thrived" for two decades is a bit of a stretch...Laserdisc existed, and people who owned them loved it, but I'm 42 and 80% of the people my age probably couldn't tell you what a laserdisc actually was. Even in the height of Laserdisc's popularity, I had to drive out of my way (in the SF bay area) to get to a retailer or rental store that carried Laserdiscs.
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post #69 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:09 PM
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COULD WE POSSIBLE SEE A USB ARRAY that hase a 100 usb inputs and new 4k movies will be sold on usb sticks? how does the 300 dollar hardrive plug to the 4k tv by usb or does the harddrive have 2.0 hdmi out?
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post #70 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by thrillcat View Post

Saying Laserdisc "thrived" for two decades is a bit of a stretch...Laserdisc existed, and people who owned them loved it, but I'm 42 and 80% of the people my age probably couldn't tell you what a laserdisc actually was. Even in the height of Laserdisc's popularity, I had to drive out of my way (in the SF bay area) to get to a retailer or rental store that carried Laserdiscs.

Maybe in the US. It's harder to find VHS rental in Asia than finding LD rental places. I'm also 42 and have yet to find a single person who does not know laserdisc. Even while living in Mississauga (at the time considered as "the boonies" in Canada) there were 3 laserdisc rental and sales places. All HMV at the time carried LD, most blockBusters rented out LDs too.

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post #71 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

...how does the 300 dollar hardrive plug to the 4k tv by usb or does the harddrive have 2.0 hdmi out?

In the case of the Samsung UHD video pack, it uses a USB 3.0 connection.  IIRC, all Samsung UHDTV's have two USB 3.0 ports (one on the tv itself and another on the One Connect box.)  The TV itself performs the playback via. an app in its Smart hub.

 

In Sony's case, the Sony 4K player connects via. HDMI.  The player performs the playback and passes the signal along to the TV.

 

This does bring up a good question, though.  If the content is being played by the TV (or, in Sony's case, being played by the media player and passed directly to the TV), how does one get lossless 7.1 channel audio to their AVR?

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post #72 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:41 PM
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COULD WE POSSIBLE SEE A USB ARRAY that hase a 100 usb inputs and new 4k movies will be sold on usb sticks? how does the 300 dollar hardrive plug to the 4k tv by usb or does the harddrive have 2.0 hdmi out?

It would have to USB 3.0 but even that might not be fast enough.

Also, USB lacks the 1 big thing that the content industry mandates - security and encryption. Their push for HDMI over component wasn't just about simplicity and picture quality. It was about the HDCP protocol which encrypts and does a two way handshake to make sure that the video signal couldn't be jacked. There have been some that have stated that movies should be sold on disc and on some type of solid state media at the theater while the movie is still playing. This goes against the established business model. Once established businesses do not like change. They fear change. And they usually adapt too late. Then end up dying or losing control. Just ask the music industry.

The Samsung drive has a hard drive but more than likely has a lot more going on inside. That is almost for certain if it is only suppose to work with Samsung TV's. Unless they are relying strictly on software in which case this device might get ripped up and movies copied and put online.

The movie and blu-ray industry mandates HDMI for playback of 1080p HD material off blu-ray discs. It is written into the license agreement. That is why you have seen component out on blu-ray players disappear. Component could handle 1080p but there was no copy protection. They were afraid of high quality video copies. All this despite the fact that HDCP has been broken for years. Looks like they are sticking with it with the new and upgraded version of HDCP showing up on HDMI 2.0.
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post #73 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:43 PM
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To put it simply, there were around 35,000 LD titles available and to this day blu ray have yet to hit 50% of that wink.gif

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post #74 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by larryep View Post

COULD WE POSSIBLE SEE A USB ARRAY that hase a 100 usb inputs and new 4k movies will be sold on usb sticks? how does the 300 dollar hardrive plug to the 4k tv by usb or does the harddrive have 2.0 hdmi out?

Why? What would that improve?

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post #75 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Maybe in the US. It's harder to find VHS rental in Asia than finding LD rental places. I'm also 42 and have yet to find a single person who does not know laserdisc. Even while living in Mississauga (at the time considered as "the boonies" in Canada) there were 3 laserdisc rental and sales places. All HMV at the time carried LD, most blockBusters rented out LDs too.

I think a lot of people have heard of laser discs in the US but few had any disc/player. Those that had them were few and far inbetween. Also, the discs tended to be pricey. I only knew of two people who had them. One of whom was a serious movie buff with money and was the only one at the time with a home theater. We are talking one of those big projector with the 3 seperate color lenses.

I don't recall blockbusters around here ever renting out laser discs. It could have been a very small selection and I just don't remember.

Speaking of VHS. Blockbuster shot themselves on the foot when WB offered them a sweetheart deal on exclusive DVD time frame rights like with movies on VHS. When Blockbuster would get movies the regular folk had to wait a year or longer to buy the same movies.
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post #76 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

To put it simply, there were around 35,000 LD titles available and to this day blu ray have yet to hit 50% of that wink.gif

Sadly, it will stay day way. There just isn't enough demand or financial reason for some companies to put them on blu-ray. And heaven forbid, actually re-master them to use all the space available. The same lack of demand has also created an alternative business model where movie studios will sell movies and burn them to disc on order.

Plenty of obscure movie/shows we will never see on DVD much less Blu-ray.
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post #77 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post

This does bring up a good question, though.  If the content is being played by the TV (or, in Sony's case, being played by the media player and passed directly to the TV), how does one get lossless 7.1 channel audio to their AVR?

ARC or optical out from the TV.
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post #78 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 04:57 PM
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ARC or optical out from the TV.


Isn't ARC limited to 5.1 and optical limited to lossy 5.1?

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post #79 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

To put it simply, there were around 35,000 LD titles available and to this day blu ray have yet to hit 50% of that wink.gif

35K over almost 2 decades compared to what, 5 years of Bluray? wink.gif

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post #80 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:26 PM
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Isn't ARC limited to 5.1 and optical limited to lossy 5.1?

I have found no information that ARC will only do 5.1, not sure about optical, but http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820 seems to suggest optical will only do DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 (I guess due to copyright/piracy issues). ARC goes over HDCP so that's should be a reason to not support it. But maybe some experts could pitch in here?
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Originally Posted by thrillcat View Post

35K over almost 2 decades compared to what, 5 years of Bluray? wink.gif

Only about 5,000 titles for blu-ray. So in 20 years BD will have 20k titles, LD still at 35K titles tongue.gif

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post #82 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pettern View Post

I have found no information that ARC will only do 5.1, not sure about optical, but http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41820 seems to suggest optical will only do DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 (I guess due to copyright/piracy issues). ARC goes over HDCP so that's should be a reason to not support it. But maybe some experts could pitch in here?

I think this depends on the tv audio hardware, but in my experience the most I have gotten out of ARC was lossy 5.1, and that was accomplished by setting my tv to bitstream the DD or DTS sound track directly, if the sound is anything but these two the best I get through ARC is 2 channel PCM, I would also have to enter the sound settings in the TV and change over manually depending what format the sound was encoded in.

I personally consider ARC at best to be "as good" as the optical output, if not worse, heaven knows the having to have HDMI control (CEC) activated causes nothing but problems.
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Ok, I guess that basically confirms that there won't be any lossless audio from the hard drive.
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post #84 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:52 PM
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35K over almost 2 decades compared to what, 5 years of Bluray? wink.gif

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post #85 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:57 PM
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Ok, I guess that basically confirms that there won't be any lossless audio from the hard drive.

That would just be crazy. So they have high quality, 21st century, 4K content. Then put old 20th century audio with them? That would just make zero sense. But I guess alot of things they do don't make any sense.

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post #86 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 05:58 PM
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having movies on a hard drive seems interesting to me. a lot of people do it on this forum. for a movie studio to sell you the movie on a drive is possible a new format to sell the movie. ssd are small and getting larger in size. spinning disks seems stuck at 4 terabytes. could we see the sale of 4k media on such devices. hard to scratch a ssd drive. (a usb array would have the hdmi 2.0 out. add another array and your house hold movie collection grows with each purchase of movie you are not limited to the drive size you have. no more make mkv each array could have 100 usb 3 connections) buy all star wars or harry potter movies on a single ssd drive in 4k quality. can i cash in my blu rays now and of course skip the dam fbi warning smile.gif
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post #87 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

While I agree it's a lot, we are talking early adopter territory here. After all, how much did that Sony thing cost with how many movies out of the gate?

Consider this: with a large 4K screen and native 4K content, this potentially allows you to not spend $60 a movie to take the family out to the theater.

In my case, though, it would be a bad deal since I already don't go to the theater.

1080p on a high quality projector with blu-ray is plenty imo. Even for very large 120" or larger screens. Add a Darbee and you're good to go. smile.gif

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post #88 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 06:25 PM
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having movies on a hard drive seems interesting to me. a lot of people do it on this forum. for a movie studio to sell you the movie on a drive is possible a new format to sell the movie. ssd are small and getting larger in size. spinning disks seems stuck at 4 terabytes. could we see the sale of 4k media on such devices. hard to scratch a ssd drive. (a usb array would have the hdmi 2.0 out. add another array and your house hold movie collection grows with each purchase of movie you are not limited to the drive size you have. no more make mkv each array could have 100 usb 3 connections) buy all star wars or harry potter movies on a single ssd drive in 4k quality. can i cash in my blu rays now and of course skip the dam fbi warning smile.gif

There are 6TB hard drives. Not en mass productions but at least 2 of the big vendors have them.

Dare to dream but currently a 1TB Samsung SSD is almost $600. 1TB HDD $60.

You will never be able to skip the FBI warning if it is a legal product. If they could they would probably wanted played on every TV station between shows and have it plastered on the walls of every house as constant reminder.
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post #89 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 06:30 PM
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It's worse than that.

It's almost a given most of the movies will be ones you won't want to watch.

Example - I bought a DVD player at one point that included 5 movies with it:

Stepmom
Stargate
Six Days Seven Nights
Lost in Space: New Line Platinum Series
Lethal Weapon 4: Premiere Collection

In other words, I got a DVD player that included Lethal Weapon 4, Stargate, and three decorative drink coasters.

Holy sh*t, i totally bought that same DVD player!

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
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post #90 of 205 Old 03-26-2014, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

That would just be crazy. So they have high quality, 21st century, 4K content. Then put old 20th century audio with them? That would just make zero sense. But I guess alot of things they do don't make any sense.

Yes, but how would they get the the sound to the receiver? I'm sure Samsung would love to include lossless audio if it was technically possible, but I don't see how with both ARC and optical being limited to lossy audio.
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