Imax Laser-Illuminated Projection at TCL Chinese Theatres - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 12:01 PM
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Scott what kind of earplugs are you using for film watching and how do you use them? IE: in all the time, in for action scenes only, etc.

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post #32 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rogergraham View Post
I didn't understand this bit. Compared to what must be monstrously-high costs for the laser projectors, would a plain white screen cost "serious coin"?
The projectors are probably in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, while a new screen that big is probably in the tens of thousands. Granted, that's in the ballpark of 10% of the cost of the projectors, but it sure ain't chump change!
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post #33 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott what kind of earplugs are you using for film watching and how do you use them? IE: in all the time, in for action scenes only, etc.
I have a pair of custom-molded earplugs with interchangeable filters; I use the filters with maximum attenuation, 25 dB. As for how I use them, it depends on the movie. For F7, I had them in most of the time; I removed them briefly to hear some quiet dialog better, but then more explosions etc., so I put them back in.
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post #34 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Scott, thanks for the info. Just keep in mind that, if it weren't for the loud and wild movies like FF7, we wouldn't have dual laser projectors lighting up multi-story screens for the masses. I can't wait for FF8.
Good point! I realize I'm in a relatively small minority of people who don't enjoy such action movies, and of course, they are what pay for things like dual laser projectors.

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post #35 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 02:44 PM
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Good point! I realize I'm in a relatively small minority of people who don't enjoy such action movies, and of course, they are what pay for things like dual laser projectors.
I enjoy the occasional action movie to be sure, but I don't enjoy aural assaults in general.
When I read from many AV-Geeks who buy calamitous movies declaring "I can't wait to give my subs a work out!" I know this is the type of situation in which I'd be politely looking for the exit.
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post #36 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
I enjoy the occasional action movie to be sure, but I don't enjoy aural assaults in general.
When I read from many AV-Geeks who buy calamitous movies declaring "I can't wait to give my subs a work out!" I know this is the type of situation in which I'd be politely looking for the exit.
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post #37 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 06:39 PM
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Great article. But it also fuels my frustration that a consumer version or derivative of this technology has not worked its way into consumer level projectors. I am baffled why PRYSM has not made a move with their LPD tech into consumer level projectors (short throw...long throw...Rear). After launching with much fanfare & high praise in 2010...along with lots of bold promises. Nothing meaningful has materialized from them except their critically acclaimed commercial Cascade displays.

http://www.techhive.com/article/1868..._too_late.html

Maybe positive exposure of launches like this one will spur them on to open up their similar tech to consumer markets.
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post #38 of 89 Old 04-21-2015, 10:06 PM
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I thought IMAX movies have the standard 6.1 (5.1 + center height) sound?
DMR'd IMAX (digital) doesn't use the VOG/C H channel... and also there is no .1/LFE in IMAX soundtracks.. they are 5.0.
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post #39 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 09:44 AM
 
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Yes, you do! Come on down to Hollywood...
I'll be in LA this august for Siggraph 2015 so I'm likely to check out Fantastic Four at the Chinese!

I can't wait to see this. Sounds like it's AV nirvana.
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post #40 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 09:53 AM
 
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Good point! I realize I'm in a relatively small minority of people who don't enjoy such action movies, and of course, they are what pay for things like dual laser projectors.
Dual laser projectors = the kind of one-two punch that Frank the Tank likes at the movies!

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post #41 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 05:38 PM
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Are those real "original" Imax or the "fake" Imax?
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post #42 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 08:09 PM
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Great write up Scott! On an added note, up here in Seattle we've been enjoying laser projection for some time now with the re-opening of the Cinerama with its first of its kind in North America dual 6P Christie 4K laser projectors. I've seen two films there now in 2D, Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies and American Sniper. Both were the best Digital cinema presentations I've ever seen. Razor sharp, good contrast and nice and bright. I don't believe the Seattle theater is using a silver screen, but I'd have to confirm that. I'm looking forward to the reopening of the Seattle Boeing IMAX theater with its IMAX laser projectors later this year (they're saying in time for Star Wars) and comparing the two theaters systems. Should be fun.

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post #43 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jpillar View Post
Are those real "original" Imax or the "fake" Imax?
Not sure what you mean by that...
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post #44 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Great write up Scott! On an added note, up here in Seattle we've been enjoying laser projection for some time now with the re-opening of the Cinerama with its first of its kind in North America dual 6P Christie 4K laser projectors. I've seen two films there now in 2D, Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies and American Sniper. Both were the best Digital cinema presentations I've ever seen. Razor sharp, good contrast and nice and bright. I don't believe the Seattle theater is using a silver screen, but I'd have to confirm that. I'm looking forward to the reopening of the Seattle Boeing IMAX theater with its IMAX laser projectors later this year (they're saying in time for Star Wars) and comparing the two theaters systems. Should be fun.
Thanks Kris! Glad to know you have a laser-projection system up there. I'm kinda surprised they didn't play The Hobbit in 3D and 48 fps, since they have the capability with dual 6P Christie laser projectors.

I'm planning to develop and update a list of all laser-projection locations, at least in North America, and post it on AVS so more people can experience it for themselves.
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post #45 of 89 Old 04-22-2015, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Great write up Scott! On an added note, up here in Seattle we've been enjoying laser projection for some time now with the re-opening of the Cinerama with its first of its kind in North America dual 6P Christie 4K laser projectors. I've seen two films there now in 2D, Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies and American Sniper. Both were the best Digital cinema presentations I've ever seen. Razor sharp, good contrast and nice and bright. I don't believe the Seattle theater is using a silver screen, but I'd have to confirm that. I'm looking forward to the reopening of the Seattle Boeing IMAX theater with its IMAX laser projectors later this year (they're saying in time for Star Wars) and comparing the two theaters systems. Should be fun.
Thanks Kris! Glad to know you have a laser-projection system up there. I'm kinda surprised they didn't play The Hobbit in 3D and 48 fps, since they have the capability with dual 6P Christie laser projectors.

I'm planning to develop and update a list of all laser-projection locations, at least in North America, and post it on AVS so more people can experience it for themselves.
They showed it 3D and 48fps but I went to the 2D showing. Not a fan of 48fps or 3D personally. A few friends saw it that way and said it looked better than the typical 3D showings though. Much brighter.
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post #46 of 89 Old 04-23-2015, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
I measured an Leq (average level) of 97.4 dBC over the course of the movie plus trailers, an Lmax (1-second maximum RMS) value of 114 dBC, an L10 (the level above which the sound stayed 10% of the time) of 101 dBC, and an L50 (the level above which the sound stayed 50% of the time) of 91 dBC.
This is the 2nd time (Interstellar being the 1st) that you get a Leq above 90dB from a movie. I'm beginning to suspect IMAX plays their B-chains above reference or manipulate the soundtrack in some way. Does anyone know something about this?
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post #47 of 89 Old 04-23-2015, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Optimus_Fine View Post
This is the 2nd time (Interstellar being the 1st) that you get a Leq above 90dB from a movie. I'm beginning to suspect IMAX plays their B-chains above reference or manipulate the soundtrack in some way. Does anyone know something about this?
IMAX resets all their rooms remotely to reference every morning.

Those two films are quite loud. I don't think Scott's findings are abnormal.
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post #48 of 89 Old 04-24-2015, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post
Great write up Scott! On an added note, up here in Seattle we've been enjoying laser projection for some time now with the re-opening of the Cinerama with its first of its kind in North America dual 6P Christie 4K laser projectors. I've seen two films there now in 2D, Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies and American Sniper. Both were the best Digital cinema presentations I've ever seen. Razor sharp, good contrast and nice and bright. I don't believe the Seattle theater is using a silver screen, but I'd have to confirm that. I'm looking forward to the reopening of the Seattle Boeing IMAX theater with its IMAX laser projectors later this year (they're saying in time for Star Wars) and comparing the two theaters systems. Should be fun.
The new one at the Science Center should be open next week, actually! They've got The Avengers scheduled for the premier at 11pm next Thursday.

Check out the construction blog. The new projectors got delivered a few weeks ago, so I imagine they're almost done.

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post #49 of 89 Old 04-26-2015, 09:36 AM
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Im going to go see Avengers on an XD screen, then go to AMC and watch it on their normal IMAX screen and then go see it at the Chinese Theater Laser IMAX, should make for a nice comparison test.
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post #50 of 89 Old 04-26-2015, 10:15 AM
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Im going to go see Avengers on an XD screen, then go to AMC and watch it on their normal IMAX screen and then go see it at the Chinese Theater Laser IMAX, should make for a nice comparison test.
Don't forget to see it at the AMC Burbank in laser projection in the brand new AMC Dolby Prime Cinema.

As a side note, it will be in Atmos in Burbank, and in the new 12 channel IMAX format at the Chinese.

As another side note, the LA AVS'ers are going to Burbank next Sunday morning to check it out.. (Scott.. you could join us too.. )
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post #51 of 89 Old 04-26-2015, 11:58 AM
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Don't forget to see it at the AMC Burbank in laser projection in the brand new AMC Dolby Prime Cinema.

As another side note, the LA AVS'ers are going to Burbank next Sunday morning to check it out.. (Scott.. you could join us too.. )
Wait the Prime Theater room has a Laser Projector, your not talking about the IMAX theater room getting the laser projector???

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post #52 of 89 Old 04-26-2015, 12:04 PM
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Wait the Prime Theater room has a Laser Projector, your not talking about the IMAX theater room getting the laser projector???
They are doing the install in the Prime this week...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...408-story.html

And they will have "Tomorrowland" in HDR (I believe US exclusive) at the end of May.
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post #53 of 89 Old 04-26-2015, 12:06 PM
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They are doing the install in the Prime this week...

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...408-story.html

And they will have "Tomorrowland" in HDR (I believe US exclusive) at the end of May.
Thats awesome

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post #54 of 89 Old 04-27-2015, 09:45 AM
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Man I really hope AMC prime or IMAX laser installs a theater in Chicago before Star Wars comes out! *crossing fingers*
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post #55 of 89 Old 04-28-2015, 02:41 PM
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Are those IMAX laser projectors HDR-ready?


Just for the record:
Film used randomized sampling patterns, changing aliasing artifacts into noise. But that doesn't mean that it has unlimited resolution.

While a 35 mm can hold roughly 4k worth of resolution at 10% contrast, you're lucky if you're getting HD once you reach the release print.


http://www.motionfx.gr/files/35mm_re...on_english.pdf
Good point and good paper. Before the arrival of digital cinema, movie theater experience from 35mm film was rather lame - around 700 lines, which was not much better (some said worse) than a good home theater with DVD and a good scalar.

Now with the film eliminated from projection, the situation is much better for seeing 35mm film, but at the same time, very few movies are made with film these days. So one can say the film is gone.

However, I remember AVATAR was showing in IMAX with 2K resolution and nobody complained that it was not sharp.

In general, all these debates of film vs digital died long time ago in the photography world, where it was established that the visual impact of 6MP camera (bayer censor) was about equal to 35mm. In movie terms, that should be equal to 3MP Bayer (in photo - the frame is 36x24mm, more than double of the movie frame), or probably 2MP of the 3-color system (such as Sigma). So I guess 2K resolution should be plenty for 35mm. And of course in practically all movie theaters we are able to watch only up to 2K resolution (2K DCP is the practical maximum now, even if upscaled for projection), whether it is from 35mm, IMAX 70mm, 5K RED etc.

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post #56 of 89 Old 04-28-2015, 03:17 PM
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Went to the SMPTE gathering last night at the TCL Chinese Theater for the Furious 7 demo - thanks to SMPTE, Universal and TCL!

They started by showing some test material including a checkerboard pattern to demonstrate the intraframe contrast and black levels. They showed a clip from Rocky Mountain Express which looked very impressive. Then came a 3D demo of Legends of Flight which was also quite impressive especially with the theater's sound system. The image was very bright, especially for such a large screen, and electronic projection's lack of flicker allows such brightness with minimal eye fatigue.

Finally Furious 7 was played in its entirety. The black before the movie started (in the very dark theater) had some very low illumination, but it wasn't noticeable to me on dark scenes in the movie. Considering how bright the image was, the contrast was impressive. I think the improved intraframe contrast might make the 24fps judder more noticeable. It would be interesting to see this projection with higher frame rate material.

In nit picking I did notice some red top vertical fringing on some titles and in some scenes. I didn't notice it on the checkerboard pattern, but I wasn't looking for it at that point. Also there were some small stationary dots in various places on the screen. I suspect this could have been the screen itself though that's only speculation. On scenes with a near uniform large bright areas there seemed to be faint vertical stripes, though that could have also been the screen itself.

What did surprise me on Furious 7 was how much detail sharpening there was. There was noticeable outlines - black on white highlights and white outlines on a scene showing black written text. To me the look was a bit "videoish" with less of a film feel to it. Color and contrast was good. Perhaps for the general movie going audience the sharpening might be a positive especially on an action movie.

I couldn't fault the 12 channel sound system which is quite capable of great dynamics and LOUD SPLs. I see why Scott brings earplugs. Wish I had time to say hello to Scott as he was sitting a couple rows ahead of me and to the right ... maybe next time.

Overall a very impressive demonstration and I can't thank SMPTE enough for the treat to see such a system not only with feature material but also test images.

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post #57 of 89 Old 04-28-2015, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Went to the SMPTE gathering last night at the TCL Chinese Theater for the Furious 7 demo - thanks to SMPTE, Universal and TCL!

Wish I had time to say hello to Scott as he was sitting a couple rows ahead of me and to the right ... maybe next time.

Overall a very impressive demonstration and I can't thank SMPTE enough for the treat to see such a system not only with feature material but also test images.
I'm sorry you didn't say hi! Always glad to meet AVSers at these things! I ducked out just as Furious 7 was starting, since I had seen it in that theater before.
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post #58 of 89 Old 05-01-2015, 04:41 AM
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I hope this is not going off topic, you did talk about volume levels in detail in the OP, so,
What's going on with the volume levels at the movies these days? Man of Steel, Interstellar, and about 40% of the movies I see are all insanely loud, and I have been thinking about bringing some kind of sound meter into the theater and now I am interested to see that there are people who are already doing that.

I actually like loud movies and loud music etc, I'm not the type of person who is ever asking people to turn the volume down, but I feel like these movies are at hearing damage volume levels, it's totally insane, and it didn't used to be like this.

I go to IMAX or AVX etc to get the best movie experience I can find, but overly loud audio doesn't improve anything, it's terrible. Movies like Avatar or Oblivion, and if I recall correctly, Edge of Tomorrow, had perfect audio levels, not too loud and certainly not too soft.

I complained to Cineplex and they blamed Christopher Nolan, as if the theater doesn't have control over its own audio levels (??) I feel like these days they are going beyond merely giving a substandard movie presentation (which is bad enough on its own) but venturing into public health and safety issues by damaging the hearing of the audience. Aren't there standards? My ears hurt for 24 hours after I saw Man of Steel and I had to start bringing kleenex or earplugs to stuff in my ears in case a movie is too loud, which half of them seem to be while the other half aren't. And that's not pleasant, nobody wants to do that, lol. It seems absurd to me.

I'm curious about what the process or thinking is behind volume levels, and if you are measuring levels that go beyond what health and safety would allow (without ear protection) in say a workplace or whatever. And I wonder how long before someone sues over hearing damage.
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post #59 of 89 Old 05-01-2015, 08:16 AM
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Does anyone know if the Moore Warren IMAX is slated for laser projectors this year? I wish IMAX would post a list of theaters earmarked to get them this year... *hint hint IMAX*
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post #60 of 89 Old 05-02-2015, 03:42 PM
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Just came back from watching Avengers at the TCL Chinese Theater and it was AMAZING. Before the movie they showed a scene from Tomorrowland and that really blew me away, the video quality was crazy good. One negative thing I noticed is these vertical bands on long pans on a bright scene.

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