Imax Laser-Illuminated Projection at TCL Chinese Theatres - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 89 Old 05-03-2015, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post
Wow, cool report.

And I didn't even know that a theater right near where I live, Scotiabank Theatre in Toronto, has one of these systems!
I'll have to check it out.
Same here R Harkness, totally agree with you. Its great to have this system right here in Toronto.

I'm also thankful that at the last 2 TAVES (home theater trade show equivalent) here in Toronto, IMAX representatives have been explaining the benefits of IMAX technology at their seminars and how they are refining and improving the IMAX experience for us consumers.

One question I would like to ask here is the audio and visual experience that I would get at the Scotiabank Theater would be the same as with TCL Chinese Theater in California? Based on this thread I would assume yes but perhaps the TCL Chinese Theater would have the edge? Just want to clarify.

Thanks
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post #62 of 89 Old 05-03-2015, 07:36 PM
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Went with some fellow AVS'ers to see Avengers today at the TCL...

As expected, the quality of the picture was stunning.. bright and vibrant, great blacks.

No 3D fatigue, and as I experienced when I saw the Christy Laser demo last year, the difference in brightness with or with out the glasses was almost non-existant...

The 12 channel sound system wasn't overly loud (no where near Interstellar IMAX levels)..

Didn't notice too much overhead activity, but the side wall surrounds got quite a workout.. clean, powerful, and fairly busy.. not a ton of low LF content, but par for the Marvel films thus far...

I'm sure others will chime in..

Next up HDR Dolby Vision on Tomorrowland in 3 weeks.
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post #63 of 89 Old 05-04-2015, 10:25 AM
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Went to see Avengers at the TCL Chinese IMAX with fellow AVS members FilmMixer, Scott Simonian, dschulz, phatfreeza, and pokekevin. The dual laser projection was bright; I mean plasma TV bright (even with 3D glasses on). Noticed that this presentation used anaglyph glasses (like Dolby 3D) rather than the typical IMAX vertical/horizontal polarizer glasses. The slightly convex lenses reflected my eyeglasses (like Dolby 3D), but it was never more than occasionally distracting.

Height imaging was noticeable within seconds of the movie starting (sounds from the public address system at the bad guys' secret base were clearly overhead). The mix also took advantage of the new mid-walls speakers, providing excellent side-vs-rear separation in the surround field. During quiet moments (yes, the bombastic soundtrack does take occasional breaks from the cacophony), the dialogue sounded a little reverby. Dan (dschulz) suggested that it was the room we were hearing (being a historic landmark, they couldn't cover the ornate interior with absorption, as is done at some premium auditoriums).

Aside from that quibble, the soundtrack mix and presentation were well worth the trip to the TCL. And even though I had brought ear plugs along, the playback level never went uncomfortably loud. I thought it was going to be loud, because 5-minute preview scene from Tomorrowland was loud and bright, but thankfully the movie itself didn't have the typical ear-splitting IMAX levels.

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post #64 of 89 Old 05-05-2015, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Just came back from watching Avengers at the TCL Chinese Theater and it was AMAZING. Before the movie they showed a scene from Tomorrowland and that really blew me away, the video quality was crazy good. One negative thing I noticed is these vertical bands on long pans on a bright scene.
I'm going to see it there tonight; I'll watch for those vertical bands...can you describe them in any more detail?
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post #65 of 89 Old 05-05-2015, 02:51 PM
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It looks something like this, those dark vertical bands. Only noticeable when the camera is panning on a bright screen like the sky. I can't remember the exact scene but I think I saw it a couple times.


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post #66 of 89 Old 05-06-2015, 12:03 PM
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I can only really echo what both Sanjay and Marc have already wrote. I felt that my first impression of these laser projectors was excellent! Just overall great PQ with nice blacks and contrast. Couldn't detect any kind of artifacts but I also had to wear 3D glasses throughout the majority of the viewing as Avengers was in 3D. No 3D issues either. I always have problems with ghosting and other internal reflections in the glasses but really no issues. Happy about that!

I thought the picture was adequately bright. Perfect for 3D. Although my favorite viewing was of a 5min preview of Tomorrowland. Wow! Now that looked good. Can't wait to catch that in HDR in a few weeks.




Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
Went with some fellow AVS'ers to see Avengers today at the TCL...

As expected, the quality of the picture was stunning.. bright and vibrant, great blacks.

No 3D fatigue, and as I experienced when I saw the Christy Laser demo last year, the difference in brightness with or with out the glasses was almost non-existant...

The 12 channel sound system wasn't overly loud (no where near Interstellar IMAX levels)..

Didn't notice too much overhead activity, but the side wall surrounds got quite a workout.. clean, powerful, and fairly busy.. not a ton of low LF content, but par for the Marvel films thus far...

I'm sure others will chime in..

Next up HDR Dolby Vision on Tomorrowland in 3 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
Went to see Avengers at the TCL Chinese IMAX with fellow AVS members FilmMixer, Scott Simonian, dschulz, phatfreeza, and pokekevin. The dual laser projection was bright; I mean plasma TV bright (even with 3D glasses on). Noticed that this presentation used anaglyph glasses (like Dolby 3D) rather than the typical IMAX vertical/horizontal polarizer glasses. The slightly convex lenses reflected my eyeglasses (like Dolby 3D), but it was never more than occasionally distracting.

Height imaging was noticeable within seconds of the movie starting (sounds from the public address system at the bad guys' secret base were clearly overhead). The mix also took advantage of the new mid-walls speakers, providing excellent side-vs-rear separation in the surround field. During quiet moments (yes, the bombastic soundtrack does take occasional breaks from the cacophony), the dialogue sounded a little reverby. Dan (dschulz) suggested that it was the room we were hearing (being a historic landmark, they couldn't cover the ornate interior with absorption, as is done at some premium auditoriums).

Aside from that quibble, the soundtrack mix and presentation were well worth the trip to the TCL. And even though I had brought ear plugs along, the playback level never went uncomfortably loud. I thought it was going to be loud, because 5-minute preview scene from Tomorrowland was loud and bright, but thankfully the movie itself didn't have the typical ear-splitting IMAX levels.
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post #67 of 89 Old 05-06-2015, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Just came back from watching Avengers at the TCL Chinese Theater and it was AMAZING. Before the movie they showed a scene from Tomorrowland and that really blew me away, the video quality was crazy good. One negative thing I noticed is these vertical bands on long pans on a bright scene.
I'm going to see it there tonight; I'll watch for those vertical bands...can you describe them in any more detail?
Were you able to see the bands or am I crazy?
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post #68 of 89 Old 05-07-2015, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post
Were you able to see the bands or am I crazy?
I don't think you're crazy, but I must admit that I didn't see them, even though I was looking for them. Must be an individual sensitivity issue.
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post #69 of 89 Old 05-11-2015, 07:50 PM
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I posted a lengthy review of my visit yesterday to the TCL but lost it due to the message below"

"Your submission could not be processed because the token has expired.

Please push the back button and reload the previous window."

Is there any way I can recover it? I have the tab still open. I am using a Chromebook.

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post #70 of 89 Old 05-11-2015, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JackB View Post
Is there any way I can recover it? I have the tab still open. I am using a Chromebook.
If it's visible on screen, perhaps you can copy it into the copy buffer, then later paste it into a new edit window. If it's not visible on screen, maybe clicking the back button will bring it back.
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post #71 of 89 Old 05-11-2015, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
If it's visible on screen, perhaps you can copy it into the copy buffer, then later paste it into a new edit window. If it's not visible on screen, maybe clicking the back button will bring it back.
I clicked the back button. Nothing was there. To be recovered it needs to be in some draft buffer or storage. If there is one it should still be there.

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post #72 of 89 Old 05-15-2015, 05:57 PM
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I wonder if the Dolby Theaters with laser will give 2D showings...I've never seen IMAX give that option.

So can the IMAX Laser projectors also do HDR or does only Dolby's have that capability?

Last edited by skoolpsyk; 05-17-2015 at 10:33 AM.
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post #73 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 11:35 AM
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Mad Max: Fury Road at the TCL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post

I won't go into the movie itself, except to say it's pretty silly—and loud! I measured an Leq (average level) of 97.4 dBC over the course of the movie plus trailers, an Lmax (1-second maximum RMS) value of 114 dBC, an L10 (the level above which the sound stayed 10% of the time) of 101 dBC, and an L50 (the level above which the sound stayed 50% of the time) of 91 dBC. Needless to say, I expected to need my earplugs, and I sure did!


Interestingly, Imax recently finished installing its new immersive-sound system in the TCL Chinese auditorium—it's 12.1 with four additional ceiling speakers and two additional side-height speaker arrays along with two 16-foot-tall subwoofer clusters. However, the Furious 7 DCP was 5.1 only, so the new speakers were not used for this presentation.
We saw Mad Max last night at the TCL. Nice, big theater. The sound was truly assaultive, in both good and bad ways.

That "new immersive-sound" system seemed to be operational. Though impressive, judging from Mad Max alone it's a little less than optimum. The ceiling speakers were rarely audible. This was due somewhat, no doubt, to the sound design of the movie, but they might not be cranked up enough. Most theaters don't have ceilings that high, though.

The side speaker system is comprised of maybe 8-12 rather modest units on the wall. They were inaudible from the center of the theater during action scenes, which means most of the movie. Cinema houses of this size and width are unusual, the width especially proving to be a challenge for the surrounds.

The new souped-up mains, on this souped-up movie, I'm sure were above the Lmax and L10 levels mentioned above -- definitely mad max sound levels. This was the loudest movie soundtrack I've heard yet. Lots of maxxed-out bass from explosions, of course, but no ULF that I could detect. ULF may be in the soundtrack but it wasn't in the air that night. It would probably require unattainable amounts of ULF for it to assert itself amidst all of that 40-80 Hz pounding. ULF at those levels would likely create some architectural issues, at least at this venue.

A more insidious issue with the TCL is its less-than-optimum acoustics. More reverb than I would expect in a putative SOTA facility, though as mentioned earlier there are preservation issues that probably limit this. You combine higher RT times with that powerful sound system and you get a true "wall of sound" effect. Dialogue articulation, at least for this movie, is not great; chalk that up to the elevated sound levels, busy background mix, slap-echo acoustics and the clipped Australian accents. In a more restrained movie, I think articulation would be OK.

Now for the good part. The visuals were very good. Not as detailed as 70mm I've seen at the Egyptian from time to time, or as immersive as the Cinerama screening of How The West Was Won at the TCM Festival a couple years ago. But it has a projected smoothness to it that compensates. The 3D brightness was fine, even better than the IMAX at Burbank using polarized. The 3D itself on Mad Max was just fair -- a lot of CG-defined depth planes that weren't quite convincing and could even be distracting. The trailer I saw for the new Jurassic Park movie next month looked more promising in that regard.

Last edited by PrimeTime; 05-21-2015 at 12:08 PM.
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post #74 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 12:00 PM
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I saw Mad Max at the TCL this last weekend.

They have installed the 12ch system but MM was in 5.1 not 12ch.
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post #75 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 12:10 PM
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^^ So the sounds we heard coming out of the ceiling speakers were due to.......??????

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post #76 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 12:20 PM
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....the surrounds being higher than your head.

Also those side surround arrays are not part of the new 12ch audio system as such they certainly would be inaudible. The four height speakers are as are a pair of 'bipole' style surrounds high up and at the mid wall.
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post #77 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
The ceiling speakers were rarely audible.

The side speaker system is comprised of maybe 8-12 rather modest units on the wall. They were inaudible from the center of the theater during action scenes, which means most of the movie.
Those small speakers along the sides are only used for non-IMAX presentations, so you'll never hear them when seeing a movie in IMAX.

There are a pair of bipole-like speakers at the middle-length of the side walls. These and the 4 overhead speakers are used for IMAX's new 12-channel immersive format.

Mad Max was not mixed in that format, so the only speakers active outside the screen were the 2 surrounds in the back corners of the auditorium. If you occasionally got the impression of sounds above you, it was because those surrounds are at ceiling height.
Quote:
A more insidious issue with the TCL is its less-than-optimum acoustics. More reverb than I would expect in a putative SOTA facility, though as mentioned earlier there are preservation issues that probably limit this.
The theatre was declared a historical/cultural landmark in 1968, so the owners are allowed to do restoration work but not cover up the ornate interior with the type of absorption panels that other commercial cinemas use to tame reverberations. Pretty cavernous sounding in there.
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post #78 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 03:40 PM
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That makes more sense, about the surrounds higher up. I didn't hear much side surround action, so I wasn't really paying attention to them. The little guys certainly didn't look like any suitable surrounds I've ever seen. It would make sense in that theater to get the surrounds up as high as possible.

The ceiling speakers were certainly active during the trailers. I thought I heard them during Max, but I wouldn't swear to it.

I'm pretty sure that I heard separate front HEIGHT speakers, L High and R High, in addition to and above the L&R mains.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrimeTime View Post
The ceiling speakers were certainly active during the trailers.
More likely sound from the 2 surround speakers phantom imaging above you, since it is doubtful that any of the trailers were mixed in the IMAX immersive format.
Quote:
I'm pretty sure that I heard separate front HEIGHT speakers, L High and R High, in addition to and above the L&R mains.
No such speaker locations for IMAX sound, even for their new immersive format.

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post #80 of 89 Old 05-21-2015, 04:44 PM
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Well....it was an unusually high placement on the screen.

There was certainly, absolutely, no doubt of activity from the ceiling speakers at some point. We were sitting directly under them, dead center in the theater.

Next time I will focus, laserlike, on the audio at TCM. That might be a while, as the next big release that I'm interested in, Jurassic World, I will probably check out at the Burbank IMAX, which I believe is the Christie projection.
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post #81 of 89 Old 10-04-2015, 08:53 PM
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Does anyone know a bit about the speakers that they use in Imax? What kind of drivers, and why those arrangements?
Seems like they also use a boatload of 12'' Subs, any idea how much juice they're pumping through them?

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post #82 of 89 Old 01-05-2016, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post



I won't go into the movie itself, except to say it's pretty silly—and loud! I measured an Leq (average level) of 97.4 dBC over the course of the movie plus trailers, an Lmax (1-second maximum RMS) value of 114 dBC, an L10 (the level above which the sound stayed 10% of the time) of 101 dBC, and an L50 (the level above which the sound stayed 50% of the time) of 91 dBC. Needless to say, I expected to need my earplugs, and I sure did!
Why does practically every theater and most mixes these days have to go with such literally ear damaging and often physically uncomfortable levels? What is the point in putting in fancy speakers only to force people to hold their ears or use ear plugs which ruin the sound quality? I see more and more people getting mad about the over the top sound levels (and in CT some are even trying to start class action lawsuit for hearing damage without warning). Personally I don't think anyone will stay home if the volume is set to 8 instead of 10 or mixed reasonably but I do hear more and more saying they can't handle theater sound anymore and rather just watch at home with their nice speakers set to reasonably loud levels.
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post #83 of 89 Old 01-05-2016, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jurid001 View Post
In general, all these debates of film vs digital died long time ago in the photography world, where it was established that the visual impact of 6MP camera (bayer censor) was about equal to 35mm.
Actually most felt 8MP was the first time they'd give up film for it, almost universally and in actual detail tests, the sharpest 35mm films actually ended up needed around 12-14MP to be beaten for resolution, more than 4k.

Of course, a 35mm release print is not like an original sharpest emulsion and was far below 8MP detail and usually below even 2MP detail.
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post #84 of 89 Old 01-05-2016, 06:10 PM
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Does anyone know much about Jordan's Reading, MA IMAX 3D laser auditorium or the Airbus IMAX Laser 3D in Chantilly, VA?

Volume level at each for TFA? (so far someone said Airbus was too quiet with no bass and someone else said it was so insanely loud with tons of deep bass they could not handle it) Are the buttkickers at Jordan's disturbing? Is it true as one or two reviews claimed that the Airbus IMAX laser projection is soft and shows big pixels??? and that the seats there don't go far enough back from the screen but rise up quickly more than heading back so most seats are far too close???

Trying to find out, quickly, which of the two, would be the better option to catch TFA at.
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post #85 of 89 Old 01-21-2016, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post
IMAX resets all their rooms remotely to reference every morning.

Those two films are quite loud. I don't think Scott's findings are abnormal.
Mark my words. One day IMAX will end up with a class action hearing loss lawsuit that will stick and they will be sorry about their resetting to insane levels every morning. The mixing industry may be in trouble too since all too many mix at what they know will cause permanent hearing damage.
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post #86 of 89 Old 01-21-2016, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Withrow View Post
Scott, thanks for the info. Just keep in mind that, if it weren't for the loud and wild movies like FF7, we wouldn't have dual laser projectors lighting up multi-story screens for the masses. I can't wait for FF8.
Pure nonsense. Setting ear damaging level vs. reasonable level doesn't help attendance and actually drives people away. Plenty of movies in the past have sold out and done crazy business in auditorium + mix combos that were reasonable.

I hear more and more people complaining about ear ringing, hurting ears, discomfort during the movie, and saying they can't handle it and jsut stay home.

People used to be afraid to bring it up, not wanting to be wimps, but it's gotten so ridiculous I see complaints all over the place, movie theater reviews, every type of forum, etc.

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post #87 of 89 Old 01-22-2016, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post
Pure nonsense. Setting ear damaging level vs. reasonable level doesn't help attendance and actually drives people away. Plenty of movies in the past have sold out and done crazy business in auditorium + mix combos that were reasonable.

I hear more and more people complaining about ear ringing, hurting ears, discomfort during the movie, and saying they can't handle it and jsut stay home.

People used to be afraid to bring up, not wanting to be wimps, but it's gotten so ridiculous I see complaints all over the place, movie theater reviews, every type of forum, etc.
I have a friend who won't attend IMAX anymore because of the high sound level.
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post #88 of 89 Old 01-23-2016, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post
Does anyone know much about Jordan's Reading, MA IMAX 3D laser auditorium or the Airbus IMAX Laser 3D in Chantilly, VA?

Volume level at each for TFA? (so far someone said Airbus was too quiet with no bass and someone else said it was so insanely loud with tons of deep bass they could not handle it) Are the buttkickers at Jordan's disturbing? Is it true as one or two reviews claimed that the Airbus IMAX laser projection is soft and shows big pixels??? and that the seats there don't go far enough back from the screen but rise up quickly more than heading back so most seats are far too close???

Trying to find out, quickly, which of the two, would be the better option to catch TFA at.
I can partially answer my own question.

Jordan's Reading Laser 3D IMAX:

volume is way too loud so the audio is ultimately poor since you need to wear earplugs or hold your ears which ruins the sound quality (what an utterly idiotic waste of what did seem to be really top line speakers, but the theater level + mix was so over the top they might as well have used tin cans for speakers), although the volume was at least OK with earplugs in and the ety 20s seemed a decent frequency match so it was slightly more natural with them in that at most other theaters, but still it's not the same, earplugs take away a lot of the surround sound feel and you do miss a lot of the quality and the impact is just different and not nearly as good as no earplugs and volume set to maybe 7 instead of 10.

projection is beyond outstanding and the screen is gigantic (screen is more than 40 seats across, maybe near 50!) and full real IMAX height ratio, 3D has zero ghosting and it seems like there is way more micro-depth to it than I've seen any other digital 3D, blacks are much deeper while brights are a bit brighter which definitely improved the quality a lot, 4k to each eye vs 2k to each eye for 3D makes a big difference you can see so much more texture and things look more natural, the color gamut appears likely to be wider and the gradations more subtle, put it all together and it's like you are truly there and just looking around with your own eyes in a way I've never experienced before in a theater, ever. Fantastic.

Seeing TFA there, visually, was just beyond compare, it felt like a whole new experience, seeing ANH for the first time on a giant screen with 70mm projection and surround sound was a revelation the likes I've never had since although Jurassic Park was a bit of a revelation in that we'd never seen such things so realistically brought to life before and Avatar with it's amazing worlds in 3D was one too and this, TFA in IMAX Laser 3D was the only other such revelation type experience I've had. And when it expanded to full real IMAX ratio for that one sequence and with that clarity and perfect 3D and high dynamic range man was that something, wow.

Last edited by skibum5000; 01-23-2016 at 12:27 AM.
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post #89 of 89 Old 05-19-2018, 12:46 AM
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I assume this was the same IMAX (2D) laser format back for SW:TLJ (ep. 8) back in December 15th, 2017. It was very nice, but I totally miss the enormous bass that shook my pants, seats, etc. like for Casino Royale in 2006, SW:AOTC (ep. 2) in 2002, etc. I think back then was using THX (wait, what happened to THX? It seems like no theatres use them anymore).
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