Nanosys Quantum Dots at CES 2016 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 01-09-2016, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Nanosys Quantum Dots at CES 2016

Nanosys is one of the companies providing quantum-dot technology to display manufacturers, including Vizio and Hisense/Sharp, all of which use Nanosys' QDEF film in some of their FALD LED-LCD TVs for 2016. In addition, Nanosys has licensed its technology to Samsung since 2010. (Interestingly, Samsung called this technology Nano Crystal in 2015, but at this year's CES, it switched to the more common name of quantum dots.)

In the Nanosys suite at the Westgate hotel, I saw several cool demos, depicted below:


Each of these vials contain trillions of quantum dots, enough for hundreds of TVs. The vials are sitting on a diffuser panel above an array of blue LEDs; the vials are tuned to BT.2020 red and green.


In this photo, a QDEF film with red and green quantum dots covers half of the blue-LED panel; when blue light from the LEDs passes through the film, the result is white light.


The Nanosys rep had a super-cool portable light-spectrum analyzer. In this photo, you can see the spectrum of a white-LED flashlight; there's a strong blue peak, while green and red are considerably spread out and much weaker.


Here you can see the spectrum read from the LED panel with the QDEF film in place. Notice how clean and separate the red, green, and blue peaks are; the blue peak is still stronger than red and green, but they are much stronger than in the spectrum of the flashlight.

According to the Nanosys rep, quantum-dot technology enables wide color gamut, increased brightness, and improved efficiency compared with conventional LED-LCD TVs. No wonder it was all over CES this year!
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post #2 of 18 Old 01-10-2016, 07:12 AM
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That's a curious spectrum. The 2020 blue is defined to be 467 nm. Their readings show them going even lower with a peak down at 448 nm. That would produce a more purplish-blue and also result in some of the 2020 gamut being cut off. It also increases the potential blue light hazard. Any idea if those blue LEDs are the same that go into the televisions, or is it possible they went with a lower wavelength (higher energy) to increase emission and make a more impactful demo?
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post #3 of 18 Old 01-10-2016, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvLee View Post
That's a curious spectrum. The 2020 blue is defined to be 467 nm. Their readings show them going even lower with a peak down at 448 nm. That would produce a more purplish-blue and also result in some of the 2020 gamut being cut off. It also increases the potential blue light hazard. Any idea if those blue LEDs are the same that go into the televisions, or is it possible they went with a lower wavelength (higher energy) to increase emission and make a more impactful demo?
What a sharp eye you have! Actually, he did say that the blue light from the LEDs was not exactly BT.2020, only that the red and green were. This was only a demonstration of the technology, which he measured on the spot with his way-cool portable analyzer.
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post #4 of 18 Old 01-10-2016, 12:07 PM
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I thought that Sony tv's used Quantum Dot tech also, yet they are not listed as one of the companies sourcing this tech from Nanosys. Are they sourced from another company or do they make there own?

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post #5 of 18 Old 01-10-2016, 12:35 PM
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Digging a little bit, it looks like Sony's "Triluminous" Quantum Dot tech is sourced form a company called QD Vision Inc.

Cnet:

http://www.cnet.com/news/what-are-qu...-your-next-tv/

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post #6 of 18 Old 01-10-2016, 12:44 PM
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Nanosys Quantum Dots at CES 2016

Correct, QD provided the 2013 Sony models. I own the W900a and it's amazing. I believe the difference is QD Vision's Quantom Dots contain cadmium which provides an even larger color gamut. It's just toxic to the environment. I read the 2013 Sony models covered 94% of P3. Too bad there's no content to enjoy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #7 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 09:43 AM
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Great article. Thanks Scott.
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post #8 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 10:33 AM
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That's probably 3M QDEF (Quantum Dot Enhancement Film)film. Nanosys quantum dots coated on film by 3M.
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post #9 of 18 Old 01-11-2016, 06:51 PM
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When I first heard about QD, I was very excited..

But then after talking to some of my engineering friends. Less so..
QD will bring P3 capable displays to us without to much effort.. But BT.2020 is still unrealistic from my understanding..
They talk about how the bottles "TARGET" BT.2020 primary colours.. The problem is that, BT.2020 "requires" extremely fine primaries.. As the SPECTRUM graph shows, they are no where near fine enough to approach BT.2020. manufacturing of QD beads that are all exactly the same size and that particular size to archive the BT.2020 requirement is incredibly difficult from my understanding. (Or incredibly expensive)

I was also hoping that these QDs could be used like a Blue-Phosphor-Laser projector to implement far more efficient and brighter digital cinema class projectors.. But again.. They cannot put up with the heat/light requirements.. Well not yet anyway.. Other materials that are more resilient may be developed..

I really hope they can work out many of the issues with QD as to make it possible to actually build displays that can come close to BT.2020
Right now, I am extremely skeptical.. We also need some form of sub qualification..
Vendors call anything BT.2020 and in very small writing (Covering only x% of BT.2020) You can say that about a 709 display.. From my understanding, the BT.2020 grade one monitors are only slightly better then P3 but no where near BT.2020

I suppose luminescence is the real topic going forward.. (Ie HDR) But it seems all wrapped up together.. Mostly to confuse the consumer I suspect.
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post #10 of 18 Old 01-12-2016, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Correct, QD provided the 2013 Sony models. I own the W900a and it's amazing. I believe the difference is QD Vision's Quantom Dots contain cadmium which provides an even larger color gamut. It's just toxic to the environment. I read the 2013 Sony models covered 94% of P3. Too bad there's no content to enjoy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Its actually kinda crazy, that a 2013 tv has significantly less content than 2014 and 2015 tvs. I have heard great things about the 2013 sony tvs and their colors.

With 4k uhd players only 5 or 6 weeks away, the word is that they can be hooked up to a 1080p tv and you can play the 4k discs and they will downsample to 1080P but have an improved picture, so im curious if you can take advantage of the QDs that way?
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post #11 of 18 Old 01-12-2016, 01:32 PM
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Quantum Dot Rec.2020 Wavelengths

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvLee View Post
That's a curious spectrum. The 2020 blue is defined to be 467 nm. Their readings show them going even lower with a peak down at 448 nm. That would produce a more purplish-blue and also result in some of the 2020 gamut being cut off. It also increases the potential blue light hazard. Any idea if those blue LEDs are the same that go into the televisions, or is it possible they went with a lower wavelength (higher energy) to increase emission and make a more impactful demo?
Full disclosure: I work for Nanosys and am the guy holding the spectrometer in Scott's photos above. I’m also new to this community and I hope you guys find it appropriate for me to contribute here.

Hi EvLee,
Sharp eye indeed- you are absolutely right about blue the wavelength in the spectrum and I think I can help explain. There are really two things going on here:
1) This little demo backlight system is not representative of a rec.2020 TV backlight.
The backlight in question is about 450nm but it happens to be from a tablet display that used that wavelength. While you are correct that choosing a shorter wavelength could ever so slightly improve efficiency and therefore brightness, the effect would be really subtle. This backlight just happened to be a convenient platform on which to build a neat demo. The film here is also a fairly random “cutting room floor” scrap sample (although the bottles are correct) so please don't read too much into the precise wavelengths shown here.

I’ve attached a real spectrum here from the backlight of an approx 90% coverage rec.2020 at D65 white LCD that we’ve shipped for accurate reference (taken with a PR-655 in our lab).

2) Funny enough, your comment is still spot on because we often find that different wavelengths help us to achieve maximum coverage for a given gamut in an LCD display.

Why would we do this? The short answer is that it turns out that the blue (467nm) and green (532) wavelengths for rec.2020 are extremely close to each other. When you pair this with a typical LCD color filter, you end up with a significant amount of “leakage” between the sub pixels. This means that when you open up the blue sub pixel, you’ve got some of that short-wavelength green leaking through, which pulls the blue primary off of its target. This is also gets to CineTechGeek’s comment about narrower primaries– the rec.2020 primaries are in fact so close that even an ideal laser light source doesn’t actually buy you much more coverage. As a result, we find that we're able to actually maximize front of screen rec.2020 coverage by pushing those two primaries apart. See attached CIE plot showing gamut coverage we've achieved with this kind of optimization.

Can we do better? Yep. You have to keep in mind that, in the “85-90% rec.2020 coverage” devices that are shipping today with our QD technology, we’re being asked to work with relatively loose color filters that were originally designed to reproduce rec.709 with a white LED light source! When we are allowed to choose the off-the-shelf color filter we like best we can push it to 93.7% coverage today and we’re working with a color filter maker on a slightly tweaked blue formulation that would take you to 96-97% coverage.

Getting beyond that is really tough for any display technology. One quick reason as to why- triangles are really finicky. The primaries are already on the locus so you can't make deeper primaries and calibrate back to 2020 in order to guarantee coverage with MP manufacturing tolerances the way you can with other, smaller gamuts. One small shift in any primary and you've lost a big chunk of you're coverage.

Our CEO gave a more thorough discussion on this topic at a conference last year if you’d like to do a deeper dive. You'll find the most relevant portion starting at about 13:26:

-Jeff
Nanosys
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post #12 of 18 Old 01-12-2016, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Yurek View Post
Full disclosure: I work for Nanosys and am the guy holding the spectrometer in Scott's photos above. I’m also new to this community and I hope you guys find it appropriate for me to contribute here.

Our CEO gave a more thorough discussion on this topic at a conference last year if you’d like to do a deeper dive. You'll find the most relevant portion starting at about 13:26: https://youtu.be/Zjwoy9n2_48?t=13m26s

-Jeff
Nanosys
Thanks Jeff. The additional explanation with charts and video is appreciated.
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post #13 of 18 Old 01-12-2016, 08:15 PM
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Glad to see one of the developers here at the forum

Quantum Dots are a very interesting solution for a wider color gamut.

I just bought a ASUS NX500 Laptop and the colors this screen with the QDEF-film is putting out are really amazing.

I'm very curious how many TV companies are getting this technology into their screens in the future.

Especially the upcoming Sharp N9000U series got me very interested due to the stated specs reaching a color gamut of 91% Rec.2020.

I just can't understand why mostly chinese companies like TCL, Hisense etc. are using this technology and established quality companies like Sony and Panasonic are not using it in their LED-TV sets and just sticking to those enhanced phosphors which can only reach a DCI gamut

Maybe someone else can say more about this topic.
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post #14 of 18 Old 01-13-2016, 10:57 AM
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[QUOTE=Jeff Yurek;40581866]Full disclosure: I work for Nanosys and am the guy holding the spectrometer in Scott's photos above. I’m also new to this community and I hope you guys find it appropriate for me to contribute here.

Any hope of busting up the green like Sharp Quattron promised to do?
They got seduced by the yellow peak on the white LEDs and forgot
about gamut in the cyan region. Pity, but QD tech would fix that.
It would be great to have emerald greens and bright yellows and
deep cyans all from the same pixel set. Thoughts?...
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post #15 of 18 Old 01-17-2016, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CineTechGeek View Post
When I first heard about QD, I was very excited..

Spoiler!


I suppose luminescence is the real topic going forward.. (Ie HDR) But it seems all wrapped up together.. Mostly to confuse the consumer I suspect.
It worked on me C.T.G. initially until many various AVS threads later got me up to speed regarding most of TPTB techno word speaks.

On the audio side with Atmos & DTS-X & Auro 3D many of us will opt for a 7.2.4 setup. Hopefully we will soon see more 11ch self powered all in one AVR's besides Integra / Onkyo in 2016. Having one box count instead of separates for me is a bonus & more cost effective. IMO

AFAIK the new Integra flagship (model # yet unknown) replacing their 2015 MY 70.6 should be out in the next 2-3 months per their reps. 384 DAC's, HD-BaseT, DTS-X, Atmos etc. should be icing on the cake.


If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

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post #16 of 18 Old 01-18-2016, 11:30 AM
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[quote=johnfull;40609418]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Yurek View Post
Full disclosure: I work for Nanosys and am the guy holding the spectrometer in Scott's photos above. I’m also new to this community and I hope you guys find it appropriate for me to contribute here.

Any hope of busting up the green like Sharp Quattron promised to do?
They got seduced by the yellow peak on the white LEDs and forgot
about gamut in the cyan region. Pity, but QD tech would fix that.
It would be great to have emerald greens and bright yellows and
deep cyans all from the same pixel set. Thoughts?...
Hi John, absolutely! Multi-primary displays are a very interesting topic from the perspective of a QD-maker.
We're able to make dots at essentially any wavelength in the visible spectrum with around +/- 1 nanometer accuracy at the peak. So cyan, Yellow, etc. all interesting and possible.
The missing piece right now is content with that extra cyan data. This may be the next 'chicken and egg' thing where content and hardware are out of synch for a little while.
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post #17 of 18 Old 01-18-2016, 12:08 PM
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It's mainly a problem that human color perception is not triangular -- green is a blunt lobe instead.
In order to get strong yellow and perceived brightness, green has tended long wavelength.
Lookup tables could be designed to boost saturation near input limits to overcome content issues.
Quattron was originally envisioned to give 'deep golds' as well as 'Caribbean blues'.
It was the coincidence of the advent of white LEDs that derailed that plan -- and brightness wars.
My last communication with someone at Sharp was a reassurance that deep green is on the agenda.
That was, coincidentally, just before they sold off their assets. Not sure where it stands now...
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post #18 of 18 Old 01-19-2016, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
Its actually kinda crazy, that a 2013 tv has significantly less content than 2014 and 2015 tvs. I have heard great things about the 2013 sony tvs and their colors.

With 4k uhd players only 5 or 6 weeks away, the word is that they can be hooked up to a 1080p tv and you can play the 4k discs and they will downsample to 1080P but have an improved picture, so im curious if you can take advantage of the QDs that way?

ray I have the 2013/2014 Sony 55W900A which uses the QD tech and if you are right about the 4K Blu ray player thing about hooking it up to my tv and it will give improved PQ and take advantage of my tv's QD's then I would be all over it. But since Sony is not releasing a 4K Blu ray player this year then forget it. I wont go with anyone else but Sony cause I'm a Sony guy except maybe Oppo if I could afford one their players that is!
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