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post #1 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 12:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Netflix Embraces HDR

According to a recent article from Digital Trends, Netflix is bullish on high dynamic range (HDR). Neil Hunt, Chief Product Officer at Netflix, is quoted as saying, "I think HDR is more visibly different than 4K," and I couldn't agree more. The benefit of greater pixel resolution is marginal for "normal" screen sizes and seating distances, but the benefit of HDR is immediately apparent at any screen size and seating distance.

The article also points out that HDR goes hand in hand with wide color gamut (WCG), allowing TVs to display a larger palette of colors over a greater range of brightness. Again, the benefit of WCG is much more obvious than merely increasing the spatial resolution from HD to UHD.

Netflix now streams its original shows Marco Polo and Daredevil in Dolby Vision HDR, and HDR10 is expected in a few months. Hunt says that, starting this year, the company will shoot and master its original shows in HDR, and the final product will include the metadata for both HDR formats. He expects that five percent of Netflix content will be available in HDR within a year, increasing to 20 percent by 2019.

Interestingly, Hunt says that Netflix will certify Dolby Vision and HDR10 TVs, though he didn't mention any specific models. I'm not sure why that certification is necessary; if a TV conforms to the Dolby Vision or HDR10 specs, all Netflix has to do is master to those specs, and all should be well. Of course, we know that the 2015 and 2016 Samsung SUHD TVs all implement HDR10, and the Vizio Reference Series offers Dolby Vision, as will the TCL X1. The 2016 LG OLEDs and Philips 8600 will be able to display content encoded in either Dolby Vision or HDR10, a dual-format trend that I dearly hope will expand to other makes and models.

In any event, I'm thrilled to see Netflix embrace HDR so fully, and I can't wait to check out its new content on an HDR-capable display.

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post #2 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 01:52 PM
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When they said that they plan to certify HDR based televisions, could they simply have meant in their normal certification processes for being able to stream and display Netflix content like they do with other TVs and that is has nothing really to do with the HDR capabilities.

Anyhow I also completely agree that res is the least improvement made compared to everything else, in fact I think 4k UHD right now is not needed 1080 is still more than fine for most content and viewing. Unless you plan to sit 3ft from your TV lol..

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post #3 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 03:54 PM
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Has Netflix made any comments about carrying (or not carrying) UHD Blu-ray discs?
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post #4 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Daniel Chaves View Post
When they said that they plan to certify HDR based televisions, could they simply have meant in their normal certification processes for being able to stream and display Netflix content like they do with other TVs and that is has nothing really to do with the HDR capabilities.
As you know, Netflix already has a "Netflix recommended TV" certification program that was announced at CES 2015. This is just an extension of that certification to include HDR capabilities. It's unlikely that the certification requirements for HDR will be as stringent as the UHD Alliance's "UHD Premium" certification program's, but they would include other aspects of the TV that improve the Netflix experience.

Other than another logo on the box, what does the "Netflix recommended TV" certification actually mean? It could be a requirement for Netflix to provide an HDR-capable streaming app for said TV. Or, it could mean nothing.

Here are a couple articles describing some of the things Netflix looks for in a "Netflix recommended TV"...

http://www.cnet.com/news/netflix-to-recommend-tvs/

http://www.techhive.com/article/2865...streaming.html
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post #5 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 05:33 PM
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I'm just guessing they mean certification for the app in the TV. I wonder if you will get HDR with the 1080p Package?
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post #6 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
...the Vizio Reference Series will offer Dolby Vision (if it ever actually becomes available to buy)...
Scott, we had the first actual known owner here on AVS last week, but he got "scared" away.

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post #7 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
...I wonder if you will get HDR with the 1080p Package?
I highly doubt that they'll enable playback of HDR content from the Netflix app on a TV that doesn't support HDR. Afaik, there are no 1080p displays that support HDR. There might be 1080p HDR content, but you will only be able to play it on a device that supports UHD HDR content. WCG is another matter. 1080p WCG content that can be played back on 1080p displays already exists, though it is fairly rare.
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post #8 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
I highly doubt that they'll enable playback of HDR content from the Netflix app on a TV that doesn't support HDR. Afaik, there are no 1080p displays that support HDR. There might be 1080p HDR content, but you will only be able to play it on a device that supports UHD HDR content. WCG is another matter. 1080p WCG content that can be played back on 1080p displays already exists, though it is fairly rare.
I'm talking about people with UHD HDR tv's that only get Standard (streaming) from Netflix with 2 screens and HD Resolution and not the Premium (streaming)

Read more: http://www.digitaltrends.com/movies/...#ixzz3z4J5tfRk
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post #9 of 50 Old 02-02-2016, 11:15 PM
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Scott, we had the first actual known owner here on AVS last week, but he got "scared" away.

Actually I'm pretty sure he got suspended or banned.

There's really no way to test netflix dolby vision since he was the only owner...but spectral has 2 of them that they've been testing. They could test netflix hdr asap if they were made aware that it may now be there.

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post #10 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
I highly doubt that they'll enable playback of HDR content from the Netflix app on a TV that doesn't support HDR. Afaik, there are no 1080p displays that support HDR. There might be 1080p HDR content, but you will only be able to play it on a device that supports UHD HDR content. WCG is another matter. 1080p WCG content that can be played back on 1080p displays already exists, though it is fairly rare.
There are 1080p projectors that support HDR, however... the new JVC RS500 and RS600.
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post #11 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 04:28 AM
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I hope the Netflix app on the new Samsung uhd blu ray player can be updated with software later to recieve HDR.
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I saw the Vizio Reference personally last week, playing Dolby Vision content and it was incredibly good. I think they said it does 2000 nits peak white if I remember correctly.

I will say this, the 4000 nits reference Dolby Vision FALD monitor that was only 1080p looked better to me, punchier. I'd prefer more HDR-ness than UHD at TV sizes. However for projectors resolution also matters so it's important to get 4K and HDR and WCG all at the same time. Getting just 4K isn't really very exciting.

Can't wait to see DareDevil in HDR, that's one show that could definitely benefit from it. Good on you, Netflix. Now make all your shows available in Canada!! So annoying. All you're doing is forcing people to copyright infringement if they want access to your content, instead of paying you (even if they wanted to. How irrational is that?).
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post #13 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Now make all your shows available in Canada!! So annoying. All you're doing is forcing people to copyright infringement if they want access to your content, instead of paying you (even if they wanted to. How irrational is that?).
It's not up to Netflix, Talk to the Networks that make the show. I'm sure Netflix would love to ran all the shows they get worldwide.
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post #14 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 05:47 AM
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I'm glad Netflix is on board. Watched Mad Dogs from Amazon last night in UHD/HDR. Looked fantastic.

Can we stop this nonsense about how UHD doesn't matter? Everything I've watched in UHD looked better than the HD version and I sit about 12' from the TV. Whether it makes a bigger difference than HDR is debatable. I find both to be a big improvement in image quality.
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post #15 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 06:08 AM
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It's not up to Netflix, Talk to the Networks that make the show. I'm sure Netflix would love to ran all the shows they get worldwide.
The actual goal of Netflix his 1 world = 1 catalogue

They said so many many times over the past years and stated it again at CES this year when they announced going global.

The problems are who own the rights to what where and its a really complicated issue.

Take us Canadians for exemple. Translation and/or distribution rights for a lot of stuff are sold to third parties that keep their rights for Canadian soil. So if you go to France or Belgium and see a movie in french on Netflix there's a 50/50 chance that the same movie in Canada will only be available in english no translation OR subtitles. It doesn't really matter for most folks but it's a huge block for Netflix in Quebec where over half the Population doesn't understand english enough to watch a show or movie.

But your right our catalogue straight up S****

To get back on topic Yeah for HDR!! Also wonder about the 1080p package? I dont want to have to go to premium.
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post #16 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 06:15 AM
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I'd like Netflix to get their hardware partners on board with embracing 24p output. Almost none of the devices can do it, from smart tv apps to Chromecast to Roku to the game consoles.

You can watch UHD in HDR, but it won't be at the native frame rate.
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post #17 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Scott, we had the first actual known owner here on AVS last week, but he got "scared" away.
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Actually I'm pretty sure he got suspended or banned.

There's really no way to test netflix dolby vision since he was the only owner...but spectral has 2 of them that they've been testing. They could test netflix hdr asap if they were made aware that it may now be there.
Does anyone know that person's username? I'd like to see what I can find out if they were banned or what.

ray0414, when you say "spectral has 2 of them," who do you mean by that? SpectraCal?
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post #18 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 11:44 AM
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Does anyone know that person's username? I'd like to see what I can find out if they were banned or what.
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post #19 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Can't wait to see DareDevil in HDR, that's one show that could definitely benefit from it. Good on you, Netflix. Now make all your shows available in Canada!! So annoying. All you're doing is forcing people to copyright infringement if they want access to your content, instead of paying you (even if they wanted to. How irrational is that?).
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It's not up to Netflix, Talk to the Networks that make the show. I'm sure Netflix would love to ran all the shows they get worldwide.
Daredevil is an original show created by Netflix, so I would think they can show it anywhere they want. As for shows created by other studios, you're right, where they are shown is ultimately up to the creator (and how much Netflix is willing to pay, I suppose).
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post #20 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 11:52 AM
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Can we stop this nonsense about how UHD doesn't matter? Everything I've watched in UHD looked better than the HD version and I sit about 12' from the TV. Whether it makes a bigger difference than HDR is debatable. I find both to be a big improvement in image quality.
The thing is that you are not really seeing the different of HD vs UHD you are seeing the differenace between 5 Megabits per second vs 25 Megabits per second.

The same applies for Youtube. If you click on 4K you get a higher bit stream so the image will look better even on a 1080p monitor.

If Netflix did both HD and UHD at 25 Megabits per second you would not say the same thing as the resolution difference is not a big deal.
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post #21 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 12:05 PM
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I'd like Netflix to get their hardware partners on board with embracing 24p output. Almost none of the devices can do it, from smart tv apps to Chromecast to Roku to the game consoles.

You can watch UHD in HDR, but it won't be at the native frame rate.
FYI On my TiVO Roamio Netflix properly plays 24p content (you must allow that mode in the video settings).

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Excellent news. Wish my Kuro was HDR10 compatible
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post #23 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by HockeyoAJB View Post
I highly doubt that they'll enable playback of HDR content from the Netflix app on a TV that doesn't support HDR. Afaik, there are no 1080p displays that support HDR. There might be 1080p HDR content, but you will only be able to play it on a device that supports UHD HDR content. WCG is another matter. 1080p WCG content that can be played back on 1080p displays already exists, though it is fairly rare.

The new JVC projctors are 1080p and support hdr...
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post #24 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 03:34 PM
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The new JVC projctors are 1080p and support hdr...
I wasn't going to correct him because I thought it was clear he was talking about displays that are limited to taking a 1080p input. The fact that JVC flashes the panel twice doesn't really matter for this discussion. They are designed to accept UHD HDR signals, then display them with something that isn't as low as 1080p or as high as true 4K.

I wish vendors for streaming boxes would embrace HDR as the JVCs can take HDR, but I don't know of any way to play Netflix or Amazon HDR to them at the moment.

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I saw the Vizio Reference personally last week, playing Dolby Vision content and it was incredibly good. I think they said it does 2000 nits peak white if I remember correctly.

I will say this, the 4000 nits reference Dolby Vision FALD monitor that was only 1080p looked better to me, punchier. I'd prefer more HDR-ness than UHD at TV sizes. However for projectors resolution also matters so it's important to get 4K and HDR and WCG all at the same time. Getting just 4K isn't really very exciting.

Can't wait to see DareDevil in HDR, that's one show that could definitely benefit from it. Good on you, Netflix. Now make all your shows available in Canada!! So annoying. All you're doing is forcing people to copyright infringement if they want access to your content, instead of paying you (even if they wanted to. How irrational is that?).
Where did you get to see it at?

Have you seen comparable hdr10 footage on hdr10 displays?

Not surprised the 4000 nit monitor looked better. It's a reference type prototype that is so powerful that it uses a special power supply just to drive it.

But as far as home tvs, what would u compare the dolby vizio demos to?


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Does anyone know that person's username? I'd like to see what I can find out if they were banned or what.

ray0414, when you say "spectral has 2 of them," who do you mean by that? SpectraCal?
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post #26 of 50 Old 02-03-2016, 08:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I just confirmed with Vizio that the Reference is indeed shipping; in fact, the company has sold out of stock on its website, which is why it's taking "special orders" now. So it is finally in the marketplace, and I have changed the OP accordingly.
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post #27 of 50 Old 02-04-2016, 01:12 AM
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I do hope Netflix or the powers that be don't put some kind of artificial block on allowing us 2015 HDR capable display owners of viewing their HDR10 material. There's absolutely no reason for them to as all of the flagships from Samsung, Sony & LG can hit their respective UHD premium certification parameters (or damn close to it).
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post #28 of 50 Old 02-04-2016, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post
The thing is that you are not really seeing the different of HD vs UHD you are seeing the differenace between 5 Megabits per second vs 25 Megabits per second.

The same applies for Youtube. If you click on 4K you get a higher bit stream so the image will look better even on a 1080p monitor.

If Netflix did both HD and UHD at 25 Megabits per second you would not say the same thing as the resolution difference is not a big deal.
This is the nonsense I'm talking about. Much of the UHD I watch, regardless of the source, looks better than HD. It looks better than blu-ray, FIOS, Netflix Amazon, etc... showing HD. I guess once UHD blu-ray comes out and people see for themselves how much better it looks, we can bury this nonsense once and for all.
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post #29 of 50 Old 02-04-2016, 07:51 AM
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This is the nonsense I'm talking about. Much of the UHD I watch, regardless of the source, looks better than HD. It looks better than blu-ray, FIOS, Netflix Amazon, etc... showing HD. I guess once UHD blu-ray comes out and people see for themselves how much better it looks, we can bury this nonsense once and for all.
My personal experience is the same as yours Kidhorn, I cannot understand how others can fail to see that UHD resolution is so obviously superior to 1080p resolution.
The conclusion that I have come to is that we see things, especially in moving pictures or frames, not static ones such as a still photo, in very different terms.
That is why some people on AVS are very concerned about black levels and others couldn't care less. Some like 24fps and others, such as myself, think it is appalling, and the sooner we get to 120fps the better.

AVS has shown me that we perceive moving images very differently. Some people just do not see the difference between 1080p and UHD so for them it is of very little or no importance.
An example of this that has been scientifically tested to a great degree is colour blindness. Some people see colours quite differently from how most people see colours, that's just the way it is.
If we were to test perception of dynamic range, of shadow detail, of differences in frame rates and all other aspects of moving image quality we would find similar variance in human perception, IMO.
To each their own.
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post #30 of 50 Old 02-05-2016, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I'm glad Netflix is on board. Watched Mad Dogs from Amazon last night in UHD/HDR. Looked fantastic.

Can we stop this nonsense about how UHD doesn't matter? Everything I've watched in UHD looked better than the HD version and I sit about 12' from the TV. Whether it makes a bigger difference than HDR is debatable. I find both to be a big improvement in image quality.

Here, here!

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling that thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a...
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