Sony, Panasonic, NHK Form 8K Consortium - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 113 Old 09-04-2016, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GregLee View Post
So if a 4K display improves on the quality of a 2K display when showing 2K source, why wouldn't an 8K display offer a further benefit in picture quality when showing the same 2K source? There's no guarantee of it, but it seems to me to be a reasonable expectation. It doesn't just depend on showing more pixels that were recorded from a source image. It also depends on how well processing upconversion works and on improvements in color gamut and dynamic range.

More importantly, shooting and/or mastering in 8K will benefit when down-converted and displayed in 4K (UHD). Generally, the higher resolution of the native capture, the better it looks when downscaled to a lower resolution.


I expect -- just like most (and generally the best) 2K blu-ray releases are those from 4K masters -- that the best results for UHD blu-ray will come from 8K masters or 8K capture. But we'll see.
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post #92 of 113 Old 09-05-2016, 04:11 PM
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Why are people talking about 60 or 70 inch displays?

Screen sizes will go massively up in the near future when OLED manufacturing is getting perfected. I'm speaking of 140" or more super thin screens plugged to your wall with magnets:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/digitaltrend...er-Display.jpg

I'm already using a 135" screen here with a projector
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post #93 of 113 Old 09-05-2016, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Why are people talking about 60 or 70 inch displays?

Screen sizes will go massively up in the near future when OLED manufacturing is getting perfected. I'm speaking of 140" or more super thin screens plugged to your wall with magnets:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/digitaltrend...er-Display.jpg

I'm already using a 135" screen here with a projector
I agree about size. I'm using a 144" diagonal myself. But you don't want to sit too much closer than 1x screen width. The angle of view is just too large. So that determines the ultimate resolution you'll need no matter how big your screen is. I can't see much use beyond 4k, ever. Human visual acuity isn't capable of discerning anything greater at even 1/2x sw seating distance.
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post #94 of 113 Old 09-06-2016, 12:04 AM
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I'm holding out for them to just do the show in my living room.

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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post #95 of 113 Old 09-06-2016, 01:00 AM
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I'm holding out for them to just do the show in my living room.
Just hope it isn't Titanic or The Poseiden Adventure! Flood damage is expensive and submersion would be catastrophic!
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post #96 of 113 Old 09-06-2016, 09:49 AM
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Just hope it isn't Titanic or The Poseidon Adventure! Flood damage is expensive and submersion would be catastrophic!
Instead of handing out 3D glasses they will hand out scuba gear

And the payoff is never certain: Some observers contend that a generation has already been trained to be content with the small screen.

Some servers can do non-encrypted playback to an A/V projector, but it's just a ridiculously expensive media player if you don't have a cinema projector.
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post #97 of 113 Old 09-06-2016, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christoffeldg View Post
Why are people talking about 60 or 70 inch displays?
Screen sizes will go massively up in the near future when OLED manufacturing is getting perfected. I'm speaking of 140" or more super thin screens plugged to your wall with magnets:
http://s3.amazonaws.com/digitaltrend...er-Display.jpg
I'm already using a 135" screen here with a projector

This NHK-JEITA 8K SHV TV exhibit at CEATEC Japan 2012 appears intended to show the feasibility of including an SHV display plus 22.x speakers in an "average family living room" circa 2020.



Note that the 22.x speaker config at the show is a DSP processing variation from the nominal Hamasaki 22.x layout occasioned by the need to apply Dialogue Lift compensation consequent to use of a direct view display . . . and the missing ceiling! The Bottom Front Center speaker has been omitted likely because the ((Middle) Front) Center speaker is slightly below eye|ear level, but the Bottom Front Left|Right speakers are in their nominal locations (Bottom Front Right speaker visible on floor in photo).


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post #98 of 113 Old 09-06-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Scott Wilkinson View Post
But at 8K, you need a really big screen—that is, a commercial cinema-sized screen—to take full advantage of that much resolution
[/I]
I'd have to disagree with just this one point. I think 8k on something like a 140" screen at 11 feet such as would be the progression of my setup now would be very noticeable. But it's the cost that will prevent this for at least 10 years for me. I can't even afford to upgrade to 4K right now to replace my 1080p 3D PJ. I will only buy when prices are below $2K.

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post #99 of 113 Old 09-09-2016, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
I'd have to disagree with just this one point. I think 8k on something like a 140" screen at 11 feet such as would be the progression of my setup now would be very noticeable. But it's the cost that will prevent this for at least 10 years for me. I can't even afford to upgrade to 4K right now to replace my 1080p 3D PJ. I will only buy when prices are below $2K.

No offense, but shouldn't you first evaluate true 4K resolution on a 140" screen before assuming you'd be needing 8K?


IMHO, this chatter about 8K is counter-productive and will rather irritate prospective 4K consumers / adopters.
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post #100 of 113 Old 09-09-2016, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Frank714 View Post
No offense, but shouldn't you first evaluate true 4K resolution on a 140" screen before assuming you'd be needing 8K?


IMHO, this chatter about 8K is counter-productive and will rather irritate prospective 4K consumers / adopters.
Needing? I probably don't need 1080p either. For that matter I don't need a 140" screen. Let's be frank, it's really what we want. We can always use more resolution, at 11 feet and 140" the results would be noticeable.

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post #101 of 113 Old 09-09-2016, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Needing? I probably don't need 1080p either. For that matter I don't need a 140" screen. Let's be frank, it's really what we want. We can always use more resolution, at 11 feet and 140" the results would be noticeable.
If you look at human angular visual acuity and then calculate the angular size of an 8k pixel given the angle of view a 140" screen (even if that's a width measurement) gives at 11 feet, you'll see that further display technology is best put to a larger color gamut, HDR and the like. Objective analysis shows that more resolution than 4k is a throw away.
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post #102 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by erkq View Post
If you look at human angular visual acuity and then calculate the angular size of an 8k pixel given the angle of view a 140" screen (even if that's a width measurement) gives at 11 feet, you'll see that further display technology is best put to a larger color gamut, HDR and the like. Objective analysis shows that more resolution than 4k is a throw away.
We disagree there on human visual capabilities, given the reasons I noted earlier.

I don't get why there's such fear of the next step, a lot of resources are being devoted to 4K + UHD features (color gamut, HDR, etc... ). It's not like 8K is going to detract from 4K development unless it takes on like wildfire.

Which is not apt to happen.

In my opinion, setting things up for a technology that won't be ready for 5-8 years is good practice. That way at least some standards are set instead of the free for all that you see from companies.

Just my 2 cents.
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post #103 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 04:23 PM
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We disagree there on human visual capabilities, given the reasons I noted earlier.

I don't get why there's such fear of the next step, a lot of resources are being devoted to 4K + UHD features (color gamut, HDR, etc... ). It's not like 8K is going to detract from 4K development unless it takes on like wildfire.

Which is not apt to happen.

In my opinion, setting things up for a technology that won't be ready for 5-8 years is good practice. That way at least some standards are set instead of the free for all that you see from companies.

Just my 2 cents.
You disagree with those who measure human visual acuity.

And, it's not fear. I'd rather see resources and bandwidth spent where it will make real difference instead of just marketing hype.
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post #104 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 04:28 PM
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Give me more I am a greedy pig.lol I'm serious.lol

Listening with Focal Elex headphones, Topping DSD Dac, SENCUN-audio tube preamp with tone control and Modded Little Dot hybrid tube amp with Voshkod 6ZH1P-EV tubes, Dual Discrete Op-Amp SS3602, and Alps Blue Velvet volume pot.

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post #105 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 04:31 PM
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Give me more I am a greedy pig.lol I'm serious.lol
Me too! More color; larger gamut, more saturation. More contrast; HDR. Gimme!
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post #106 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 05:36 PM
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With all this talk of 4k and 8k, we have taken leave of realty and entered the realms of hyper-reality. Instead of seeing people and things on the screen, we see their physical imperfections that the naked eyes cannot see. And that could be bothersome.

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post #107 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 05:55 PM
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At some point we'll shed our corporeal existence. We'll remove the unnecessary components like organs and limbs, leaving just our brains plugged into a sophisticated computer system. The next level will be transferring our unique electrical impulses from our brains into a virtual environment for a permanent synthetic existence which in theory, could last forever.

Don't be afraid, you're brain will be in a jar sooner than you think!

In the meantime I look forward to 4K and eventually 8K. If they start releasing phones with 4K resolution, surely a 140" screen will look good at 8K.

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post #108 of 113 Old 09-10-2016, 06:30 PM
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...
If they start releasing phones with 4K resolution, surely a 140" screen will look good at 8K.
Don't forget, you hold that phone only a few inches from your eyes.
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post #109 of 113 Old 09-11-2016, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
8k? Why?

Wish someone would dump money into figuring out how to manufacture LCD panels without uniformity issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post
...In my opinion, setting things up for a technology that won't be ready for 5-8 years is good practice. That way at least some standards are set instead of the free for all that you see from companies.

Just my 2 cents.
Because (IMO) Japanese tech has been outmaneuvered by the South Koreans, soon to be outdone by China; a way of resetting things. Remains to be seen just how successful, though...
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post #110 of 113 Old 09-13-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tomtastic View Post
Needing? I probably don't need 1080p either. For that matter I don't need a 140" screen. Let's be frank, it's really what we want. We can always use more resolution, at 11 feet and 140" the results would be noticeable.
What are you going to watch on an 8K display? 80-90% of all current film and television production is finished at 2K, the remainder at 4K. 35mm film is generally thought to have somewhere between 3-4K of real picture information, depending on film stock, lenses, lighting etc. There's barely a noticeable improvement in 4K. So there's over a century's worth of material that will see no improvement at 8K. The only films that might see some theoretical benefit are productions shot in 65mm or 15/70 IMAX. That's a few dozen features, in all.

Don't tug on that, you never know what it might be attached to...
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post #111 of 113 Old 09-15-2016, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by worth View Post
What are you going to watch on an 8K display? 80-90% of all current film and television production is finished at 2K, the remainder at 4K. 35mm film is generally thought to have somewhere between 3-4K of real picture information, depending on film stock, lenses, lighting etc. There's barely a noticeable improvement in 4K. So there's over a century's worth of material that will see no improvement at 8K. The only films that might see some theoretical benefit are productions shot in 65mm or 15/70 IMAX. That's a few dozen features, in all.
The best reason for 8K right now is filming which translates to superior 4K with oversampling.

35mm maxing out at 3-4K is debatable, I've read it can be as high as 8K, depending on those factors you mentioned, light and speed plus a 8K film scanner but over 4K may just be diminished returns especially if the output is still only 4K or HD.

After further examination, according to Wikipedia on 8K the ratio of screen size to viewing distance is 2.6. 2.6 is the ratio to determine how far away you must be before you can no longer distinguish individual pixels. So if screen size is 52" you would need to be viewing at 20" away. 92"/2.6 36" away, that's pretty close and in my case: 140"/2.6 is 53" or about 4 and a half feet.

That's more than twice what I'm sitting at now, however the 2.6 ratio is merely where 8K becomes distinguishable not where it becomes noticeable above a lower resolution which can be further out. I still think it would be noticeably superior to 4K at 140" and distance of 11 feet.

Since I haven't upgraded to 4K yet I'm not worried about it. I don't even know when I'll upgrade to 4K so this is likely 10 years from now before this becomes a reality and by then there will be more content.

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post #112 of 113 Old 09-15-2016, 02:48 PM
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What are you going to watch on an 8K display?
Porn? They're usually the first adopter of new video standards (recall VHS).

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post #113 of 113 Old 09-15-2016, 07:45 PM
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Porn? They're usually the first adopter of new video standards (recall VHS).
OMG... HD was bad enough. I've never seen it in 4k, not that I'm trying to either! 8k? Ewwwww.....
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